twig

Looks like bitkub has XRP/THB market:
https://www.bitkub.com/market/XRP

14 minutes ago, how241 said:

Thanks again, twig !!! I will definitely carefully read through what you have posted.  I see that Binance also has a DEX exchange. I have never used it or even really looked into it. I have traded on Binance before with no problems but it is only crypto-to-crypto.  Would you recommend using the Binance DEX, as they are a big company ? I don't know if the Binance DEX  can sell/trade for cash/money. Being that bitcoin and others are still down and I believe that they will go higher soon I am not really looking to sell right now but I am looking into cash-out ways when the time is right. Thanks for all of your help.

I think it's debatable whether Binance DEX is really a DEX. Their position is that being "decentralized" is a range, kind of like being pregnant can be a matter of degree - from a little bit pregnant to really pregnant, right?... ????

I personally would not use Binance DEX, because I think decentralization is binary - full or not at all.

If Binance retains control of its DEX, the powers that should not be will always be able to create the kind of censorship problems for their users that you have experienced through KYC/AML...

If Binance plans to relinquish control of its DEX, and have it disrupt itself out of business, why would a sane, responsible corporate leadership do that?

I think the answer is that Binance's DEX is a marketing gimmick, the way unrelated companies were putting the word "Blockchain" in their names over the  past few years...

You are right that it's not a good time to sell Bitcoin and such, if one has a long-term view of it.

Clearly, we're very early in the crypto era.

The evidence is that the only exchange - Bisq - that can be called decentralized today for - Bitcoin - the most decentralized cryptocurrency, has barely any users in Thailand - the 20th most populous territory in the world!

So, seems like a good time to experiment with small amounts on such free-market, decentralized exchanges, rather than keep risking someone else interfering through KYC/AML with your funds or ability to trade on centralized, corporate exchanges, no matter how "decentralized" they pretend to be.

6 hours ago, how241 said:

Thanks twig !!!....I will do some watching and reading up on this.  I have heard about these types of new exchanges but didn't really see the advantages.  Now I am starting to  get it as a USA person,  the crazy USA laws on everything concerning money makes it hard to play around with a few coins.  Thanks again !!!

Welcome! Be careful: if Bitcoin is "being your own bank", Bisq is being your own exchange. So, the process is much different than nanny exchanges.

With respect to your situation selling BTC for fiat, here's what I learned so far:

• You can trade in any fiat currency where you have an acceptable payment method, without connecting that payment method to Bisq - you just list it in the offer. However, takes patience in small, new Bisq markets, because liquidity is low.
• It's not for high frequency trading or very small amounts.
• Have to leave Bisq always online for best results, unless you are in Euro or USD, where there's always liquidity for the takers.
• It cost much more to be the taker than the maker.
• You can lower your trading fees by using its internal BSQ token, the way you can on Binance and such. Don't buy BSQ though, until you are sure you will continue to trade on Bisq. Just use BTC for fees at first.
• You pay the mining and trading fees up front when you set the offer. You can change it, but if you try to cancel the offer completely, you will forfeit the mining and the trading fee. For the taker, that's naturally not an issue. I think you can claim for trading fee refund with the Bisq DAO, but I never tried. Few times I did cancel an offer, I just write it off as a small donation to Bisq development.
• You are not really limited by the low initial trading limit or the maxumum limits, because you can put up as many offers as you wish. That costs more in fees, but also spreads the risk among several offers.
• Selling BTC for Cash deposit is safer than National/Same bank transfer. (For buying BTC, doesn't matter, because you know that you are not a scammer.) Scammers are naturally lazy, stealthy people, who don't want to appear on cash deposit machine cameras or at a bank branch. (With online banking app transfer, they can later say they transferred the money to you in error, and try to have the bank reverse the payment. Hard to do after showing up at a CDM or a branch...) If they try to force you to change payment to online banking by pushing the trade into arbitration, just request damages for a broken deal from the arbitrator during the dispute, in the amount of mining and trading fees.
• You can  communicate with the counterparty - by email or in the app - once the trade begins. If the buyer wants to use cash deposit machine, most cash deposit sellers will allow the buyer to round down to the smallest fiat note the deposit machine will accept.
• Everyone wants the best deal, with a small spread. So, for best results, if you set offers, set the kind of offers you yourself would be willing to take, if you were the counterparty.

7 hours ago, how241 said:

Thanks....Do you know if someone was to sell BTC  there would they be able to transfer the funds to a Thai bank ?

This type of exchange doesn't need to connect to any banks the way centralized exchanges do.
The counterparty buying your BTC would simply transfer the funds to your Thai bank account from theirs, using their banking app or the bank's cash deposit machine or a bank branch.

Once you see the THB in your bank account, you release your escrowed BTC in the app.

Watch these two tutorials:

If you still don't understand after that, there's a lot more detail on their site, in their Youtube channel, and their forum.

On 9/2/2019 at 7:42 AM, how241 said:

Anyone know where a USA expat, living full time in Thailand,  can trade/sell coins in Thailand. Most of the Thai exchanges will not accept USA customers due to all the paperwork required by the USA Govt. 

https://bisq.network/

Not much liquidity there yet, but the more governments do, the more popular such decentralized exchanges will be.
Just a matter of time and patience.

12 hours ago, ThePioneer said:

With under the radar is meant for thieving organizations like Paypal - Transferwise and others.

 

When they know the payment is for something they don't like they block the accounts including the funds and keep them locked up for 180 days.

 

Take note the money in the accounts does not belong to paypal or transferwise, yet they feel they have the right to keep those funds locked up for 180 days.

Agreed. Paypal started out with the same freedom ideals as Bitcoin. 

(Real thieves groups by definition - commonly called "government" - then turned it and the like into "thieving organizations" on its behalf... See KYC/AML discussions here.)

When you give your money to any entity, including banks, it stops being YOUR money.

It becomes THEIR money (asset) and their liability to you.

The point is: if PP and such don't like some activity, then their "regulators" in the government don't like it, and you won't be "under the radar" using some regulated Bitcoin exchange or wallet such as Blockchain to facilitate that.

I think the suggestion above to use the Localbitcoins escrow is a good one, but then you have to mess with it as an inexperienced person, without gaining any real "radar" invisibility.

I disagree on ZCash vs Monero, because confidential payments are optional in ZEC and mandatory in XMR.

So, while ZEC has 3x the volume of XMR today, only maybe 10-20% of ZEC volume is private payments.

So, the privacy you get with ZEC is less than that of XMR in real terms:

https://masterthecrypto.com/monero-xmr-vs-zcash-zec/

The most efficient way would be to use https://localmonero.co/

a clone of LocalBitcoins using XMR, but it's less trustworthy for now, and you would have to mess with setting up your own XMR wallet to get the most anti-radar effect:

https://web.getmonero.org/downloads/

That of course assumes your IPTV provider accepts XMR.

If they don't, as I mentioned, their intent behind requiring crypto is not really to stay under any kind of radar.

However, you could then pay them using XMR and converting it to BTC in real time:

https://xmr.to/

It's all a lot of hassle though for one payment for an inexperienced person.

So, I suggest you have someone experienced send it on your behalf.

You can probably find a way to do that also through one  of the reputable escrow providers in EU, but it would probably be more costly than doing it yourself:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2439910.0

Another easy way is to go to a local Bitcoin meetup, and get the traders there to help you right then, in person.

If you have to pay for something that has to "stay under the radar", then blockchain.com, Coinbase and other major exchanges, credit cards and Bitcoin are not the things to use.

(If the vendor is making the opposite case, it's because they want the payment to be positively non-refundable.)

Conbase, for example, is now a proven government surveillance hub over cryptosphere, after they surrendered thousands of records to the US IRS, and recently bought a notorious hacking and surveillance firm.

(Notorious, because one of their claims to fame is working for totalitarian and  authoritarian governments on projects such as hacking political dissidents...)

https://news.bitcoin.com/coinbase-acquires-cryptocurrency-surveillance-company-neutrino/

So, anything you do through things like Coinbase, Bitpay, "regulated exchanges", will  be "duly noted" by the "authorities", and tracked, including its recipient and their paths to fiat...

If you and the latter really want this payment to be confidential, my suggestion is find a reputable trader on LocalBitcoins, who knows how to use privacy blockchains and methods.

Don't mess with it yourself; have that trader send the payment.

Pay for it with paper fiat or bank transfer, such as SEPA.

10 minutes ago, Conno said:

Twig - Thx for the links bisq and hodle hodl are new to me will check them out.

 

Bisq has a relatively active YouTube channel and user forum, where users can get help and too much information:

Good luck! Be careful.

To me, best alternatives are decentralized exchanges, of which Bisq is really the only one for fiat trading:

https://bisq.network/

There's little liquidity there now in THB, but I remember a time when there was little liquidity on LocalBitcoins in USD; so, that's just a matter of us putting offers there.

The pro liquidity providers will create supply where there is demand, just as it happened on LBC...

Bisq allows bank transfers, cash deposits, and face-to-face trading using fiat of any kind or s-coins.

Bisq itself, doesn't require any KYC/AML, because it uses escrow, similar to the way LBC does, but you control your funds in your own wallet.

It's not good for small trades though, and your Bisq app has to be online to take or make offers.

It doesn't have a mobile app yet.

A centralized, but non-custodial alternative is:

https://hodlhodl.com/

It's more similar to the bx.in.th, but uses escrow in which you control your own funds.

So, it's like a hybrid of the latter and Bisq.

Last I heard, they don't allow those who are the property of "The Land of the Free". So, y'all are out of luck. Bisq seems the best option in non-custodial exchange realm for you.

Spent several weeks there on business last year.

Too much shooting going on in Cebu lately for my taste.

The city is mostly dumpy; I wouldn't bar hop around there at night nowadays.

If you know how to dance Latin, or just want to meet some decent party folks, there is a fun Salsa group that has a weekly dance night at local clubs.

You can find  them on FB.

When I was there, they had their night at Maya Mexican, which is a decent restaurant also. 

Other than that, if I were in Cebu on vacation, I would try the resorts on Mactan island for the night life.

You can find some great Cebu video guides on Utube from the local expats.

Has anyone heard of or run across a psychologist or other mental health pro fluent in Thai and Korean in Bangkok or Chonburi?

English not necessary.

Since it's so important for Thais and other purveyors of "decency" to wear a shirt in public, why do you reckon Thais born with thick, fur-like body hair were not naturally selected in Thai culture over the millennia?

Since Thai streets are filled with stray animals that have the same genitals and nipples as the Great Apes called humans - farang and Thai - why is the police not sent out to put shirts and shorts on at least the dogs with very large, hanging testicles to guard public decency?

In this climate and population density, the only real threat from walking around completely naked is the accidental spread of infectious diseases via contact with various public surfaces.

Yet, Thais, not to mention farangs, go about without a mask while coughing/sneezing  cold and flu 1-3 meters around, that actually can be fatal to some, without feeling any concern for the feelings or health of others, not to mention public decency.

Why does the Thai culture not build enough public toilets, so that "public decency" or Thai feelings are not hurt by so many Thais I see urinating on the streets?

Isn't all this concern over "public decency" and hurt feelings by someone walking around shirtless just the result of societal brainwashing of the ignorant by the ignorant for the ignorant?

I'm not sure there is such a thing as a "long con" in intimate relationships, because any relationship is really a business relationship.

Even relationships within a family have central quid pro quo pillars.

Even parents have children as a kind of investment in their own mortal future by forcing them into life.

And children certainly feel entitled to a lot of material support from their parents.

Given that they were forced into dealing with the Human Condition, that seems justified.

Money is just the biggest of those pillars, because it frames so many aspects of our lives.

So, besides some legal obligations, I'm not sure how an intimate relationship can be described in terms of a con in a way that makes any sense.

I'm not sure there is such a thing as a "long con" in intimate relationships, because any relationship is really a business relationship.

Even relationships within a family have central quid pro quo pillars.

Even parents have children as a kind of investment in their own mortal future by forcing them into life.

And children certainly feel entitled to a lot of material support from their parents.

Given that they were forced into dealing with the Human Condition, that seems justified.

Money is just the biggest of those pillars, because it frames so many aspects of our lives.

So, besides some legal obligations, I'm not sure how an intimate relationship can be described in terms of a con in a way that makes any sense.