twig

15 minutes ago, Chivas said:

One of these days it just wont only be sites or threads going missing all the contents of these "wallets" will as well when you try to open it one morning

The biggest ponzi schemes imaginable and pray tell when it all goes missing who you gonna turn to.........

 

Just a matter of time.....

This doesn't even fit the basic definition of a "ponzi scheme":
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/ponzischeme.asp

because there's NO PROMISE of a high rate of return with little risk.

Neither are new investor funds used to pay earlier backers. By your definition, any stock is a ponzi, because some buy it early for less, and others buy it from them later for more.
 

So, to call this or any other high-risk trade a ponzi is just ignorant.

To always expect to have someone (presumably the nanny state) to "turn to" to recover a loss from something one does voluntarily, is just a sign of immaturity and dependence.

When so much of people's money was disappeared by governments and banks so many times throughout history worldwide, through devaluation, hyperinflation, wars, sub-prime crisis, to whom did they turn to be made whole?

Remember that post 2008 saying, "Privatize the profits. Socialize the risks." ?

Ponzi and Madoff went to prison for their ponzi; who went to prison for the the above?

Even those who didn't cause it, are still forced to pay for the GFC today.

And the same central banksters are about to do the same to all of us again, if you're following the latest US QE. When you're forced to pay for government and banks' bailout again, "pray tell who"...

"Just a matter of time....."

26 minutes ago, WebGuy said:

Thanks.

Are you referring to this when you are saying BitBox:

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/digital-bitbox-swiss-made-bitcoinorg-certified-hardware-wallet-with-microsd-tf-slot-for-easy-master-seeds-backup-trezor-and-ledger-nano-s-alternate-i163342825-s197863423.html?ef_id=CjwKCAjwo9rtBRAdEiwA_WXcFkzRWn0JSf2xdtef3WpQIb_9XDlEG8jqetv9rEDb9lv64ppuvSuzIxoC6XIQAvD_BwE:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!3152!3!286179630377!!!u!296030489971!&exlaz=d_1:mm_150050845_51350205_2010350205::12:1498579383!58089999096!!!pla-296030489971!c!296030489971!197863423!129636855!286179630377&gclid=CjwKCAjwo9rtBRAdEiwA_WXcFkzRWn0JSf2xdtef3WpQIb_9XDlEG8jqetv9rEDb9lv64ppuvSuzIxoC6XIQAvD_BwE

That was the original, which had some problems.
I meant this one:
https://shiftcrypto.ch/bitbox02/

Looks like bitkub has XRP/THB market:
https://www.bitkub.com/market/XRP

4 hours ago, WebGuy said:

Twig,

 

Thanks for elaborating.

Any clue where affordable ledger could be bought here in Thailand?

 

Best regards,

Nowadays, I would only buy a hardware wallet from the manufacturer to avoid fakes or tempered devices.

Unless you will be using a lot of alts on it, a Ledger is no longer worth the cost in my opinion.
NanoX is expensive. NanoS can only hold a few alt apps at a time.

For Bitcoin, I think ColdCards and BitBox2 are the current leaders. BitBox2 can also hold ETH, LTC, ERC-20 tokens, and do U2F the way Ledger can.

5 hours ago, phiber said:

Identity theft? How many regular websites were hacked and their databases published freely on the Internet? not just emails/logins/passwords, google for "have I been hacked". if any of your email addresses are there, so is your personal info.

 

India will jump on the crypto train as soon as they set up their laws accordingly. A nation with so many illeterate people is ripe for online scams.

How many "regular websites" ask you to upload a picture of you holding your passport, maybe even a second photo ID, proof of address, and some even a tax related number you are assigned for life?

What is it that so many completely illiterate people in India do online?

If they can't read, how would they even find out about a scam by getting online?

How were so many illiterate people able to use online crypto exchanges there?

Maybe google "functional illiteracy in developed countries". If "Across the UK, it is estimated that 100,000 pupils a year leave school functionally illiterate." as late as 2007, now they are still functionally illiterate adults.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2007/jul/10/schools.primaryeducation
Why then hasn't the BOE implemented a banking ban against crypto exchanges the way RBI has?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_bitcoin_by_country_or_territory#Southeast_Africa

Even from their own statements, it's clear as usual, that it's not to protect illiterate people from online scams anymore than it's about making them literate. LOL

It's clear that the banking ban is for the same real reason the 2000 INR notes were demonetized - to make it harder to avoid being looted by direct and indirect taxes (aka "inflation").

As with all protection rackets, it's really about protecting their own revenue stream...

2 hours ago, WebGuy said:

Thanks.

Any knowledge why would someone use these risky sites you mentioned above but not just the most legitimate ones such as it used to be bx.in.th or bitkub nowadays or the ones in the West such as Bitstamp or Coinbase?

 

Do these sites offer something like lower fees and some other benefits?

There were various reasons back then, and most were in the West or developed countries.

They were leaders of their time in some aspect - liquidity, privacy, leveraged trading, payment processor integrations, etc.
 

"Regulated" exchange like Bitstamp or Coinbase, either didn't exist, or had insignificant liquidity and were considered too new.

"Legitimate" is also in the eye of the beholder. One of the best of that era was BTC-E, which was rumored to be run by some East-european "mafia ".
As I remember it, they were one of the most equitable of their era, and most competent in handling any problems that arose fairly.

So, they were in a way more "legitimate" than the contemporary clown shops like MtGox or early Coinbase, and were only put out of business by a bigger Western "mafia" group, aka the "US Department of Justice" for "money laundering".
If you think about it using most basic logic, only the latter can truly "launder money". (Anything magically becomes "clean" and ready for auction with proceeds going to them, as soon as they confiscate it under any pretense.)

BTC-E exchange was when it became clear, at least to me, that "legitimate" and "money laundering" are really subjective, political terms, kind of like "terrorist" versus "freedom fighter"...

It was mentioned here:

Considering MtGox, Bitcoinica, MyBitcoin.com, TradeHill, Intersango, Bitfloor, [long list], seems whenever someone says something like "They are as legitimate as they come.", about a centralized exchange, that's a giant red flag that it's the opposite, compared even to the list above.

Maybe they are just "Down for maintenance and improvement"? ????

The answers to the question "Why they left" and "Why Switzerland" and related pleading and chastising were the most amusing in that hearing:
https://www.c-span.org/video/?465293-1/facebook-ceo-testimony-house-financial-services-committee

Seems all in the room, including the questioners already knew the answer Sugarmountain was evading: it's because the US are not the bastion of freedom - especially financial freedom - which they continue to assert to be, and haven't been for generations, if ever!

Imagine if he spoke to them in the tone and content of the way they did to him, and routinely do to others.

It's really just like talking to a decentralized king, where you know they can just squash you and your company if you resist their public beating and witch hunt.

One could tell he was angry as hell about the way so many of them distorted his answers, and asserted blatant falsehoods, but he couldn't afford to argue with these pompous public parasites.

I hate and don't use Facebook, but for the first time, I kind of felt sorry for the guy having to put up with this world financial overlords' "hearing" of themselves.

3 hours ago, Conno said:

 

Twig was that pre-WWW or a typo for pre-WW2? LOL only pullin ya leg as I'm no youngster myself. Good point, TV is probably not the best place to get a good cross sectional representation of the crypto scene. BUT after saying that just about everyone I know in my own social circle are no-coiners. No correction, everyone I know is a no-coiner, with about a 50/50 mix of never even heard of it to heard of it but don't have any. Hard to get trustworthy numbers but I have read there's probably only around 30/40 million or so wallets out there. Some probably own more than one so coiners still very small from a global population perspective. I'm massively excited about where this is going and I'm not talking price. Another 10X or 100x from here still possible in the years ahead but it's the technology that I'm most enthusiastic about. The chance to give the centralised powers the middle finger and claw back our financial freedom. As you know I already have a thing about the ever increasing AML/KYC data collection creep so this excites me more than price appreciation. I'm not trading my BTC and intending to never sell it back into fiat. I am going to wait for Bitcoin to be recognised as a unit of account in its own right. In other words when people start pricing things in satoshi's rather than always doing a fiat comparison. At that point I will start spending it. 

 

Just watched a brilliant 3 hour interview that Edward Snowden gave this week on the Joe Rogan show. He made a very poignant  point. The ordinary guy/gal on the street are supposed to have privacy rights as private citizens whereas politicians are seen as public figures in public office. But just as financial privacy has been turned on its head so has the aforementioned norm. Private citizens now have increasingly less privacy and public office figures are increasingly protected and routinely conceal almost everything. 

:) (It was certainly pre-WW3 "War on Whatever" the same generation started, once the "Cold-War" profitability petered out...)

Based on @Nyezhov response, I think I can rest my case on what I said, because he fully supported my leading hypothesis.

Everyone I know and 99% of those I meet nowadays in any major city have at least heard of Bitcoin and "Blockchain", even though most smirk if the subject is brought up.

So, if they are not in already, and don't understand why it even exists other than as a joke, the powers that should not be will through increasing propaganda, onerous taxation and regulation, make sure that most of them will  remain nocoiners until death also.

(The kids growing up that don't remember the world without Bitcoin are a different story.)

Regarding AML/KYC and financial privacy, the above exchanges are definitely part of the problem. They and payment processors, such as Bitpay, for example, are massive surveillance hubs on the cryptosphere.

As happening in India, for example, and even US chattel who traded on centralized exchanges in the early days can confirm that it can come back to haunt anyone who uses regulated exchanges years later in unpredictable ways.
 

These exchanges and their AML/KYC overlords also endanger their users by creating these giant identity theft database honeypots. That's how the "identity theft" issue was created decades ago in general.

When the brown shirts who own a given territory finally decide to ban Bitcoin and such as a "national security" and "sovereignty" threat, they'll go to these exchanges first to find out who has what to confiscate and criminalize...

2 hours ago, Conno said:

AgMech "I guess this tells us how many here trade in BitCoin." Excellent, which means we are still miles ahead of the crowd and the best position to be in.  

Doubtful.

The "smart money" in retail, and the kids are all in as much as they will be. Only some institutions still left out, and they don't read ThaiVisa much probably.

TV here is a notorious geezerville of people who lived most of their lives and made much if not most of their money pre-WWW, much less pre-Bitcoin.

So, they'll die before they become part of the cryptocurrency crowd, because they just consider it a "fad", "Ponzy", "scam", etc. Here, they just parrot opinions of others in mass media, including regarding exchanges.
 

Besides these nocoiners, seems more likely that the majority here are ALTcoiners, to be diplomatic, that came into "crypto" markets during the 2017 ERC-20/ICO s***storm, on "tokenize everything" fairytales from shops like OmiseGo, NEM, XRP, [long list]...

I met such in TH back then. They didn't want to mess with Bitcoin/THB trading, because there wasn't enough upside???? compared to the "alts".

Sure turned out to be enough downside???? though. So, they wrote off Bitcoin/THB trading together with BTC/Alts.
That's my leading hypothesis now.

14 minutes ago, how241 said:

Thanks again, twig !!! I will definitely carefully read through what you have posted.  I see that Binance also has a DEX exchange. I have never used it or even really looked into it. I have traded on Binance before with no problems but it is only crypto-to-crypto.  Would you recommend using the Binance DEX, as they are a big company ? I don't know if the Binance DEX  can sell/trade for cash/money. Being that bitcoin and others are still down and I believe that they will go higher soon I am not really looking to sell right now but I am looking into cash-out ways when the time is right. Thanks for all of your help.

I think it's debatable whether Binance DEX is really a DEX. Their position is that being "decentralized" is a range, kind of like being pregnant can be a matter of degree - from a little bit pregnant to really pregnant, right?... ????

I personally would not use Binance DEX, because I think decentralization is binary - full or not at all.

If Binance retains control of its DEX, the powers that should not be will always be able to create the kind of censorship problems for their users that you have experienced through KYC/AML...

If Binance plans to relinquish control of its DEX, and have it disrupt itself out of business, why would a sane, responsible corporate leadership do that?

I think the answer is that Binance's DEX is a marketing gimmick, the way unrelated companies were putting the word "Blockchain" in their names over the  past few years...

You are right that it's not a good time to sell Bitcoin and such, if one has a long-term view of it.

Clearly, we're very early in the crypto era.

The evidence is that the only exchange - Bisq - that can be called decentralized today for - Bitcoin - the most decentralized cryptocurrency, has barely any users in Thailand - the 20th most populous territory in the world!

So, seems like a good time to experiment with small amounts on such free-market, decentralized exchanges, rather than keep risking someone else interfering through KYC/AML with your funds or ability to trade on centralized, corporate exchanges, no matter how "decentralized" they pretend to be.

Are there any gold shops in Thailand that accept payments for gold through Bitcoin the way Bullionstar does in Singapore?

https://www.bullionstar.com/help/bitcoin

Which is the best BTC/THB exchange in the attached poll?

On 10/12/2019 at 2:22 AM, z42 said:

When it gets popular they'll be begging to join. The current global financial players like their monopoly the way it is and will club together to resist change as long as they can.

The fee structure these legitimate companies set currently are outrageous frankly

I think Libra will still launch, but as some kind of a fork of Bitcoin or on some kind of s*coin like Ethereum or XRP.

Then it won't matter who else is in on Libra.
 

On 10/12/2019 at 7:08 AM, wombat said:

when Thai gold shops accept crypto currency in exchange for gold i will believe it has been accepted as money.
until that happens the whole crypto thing smells of scam.

Maybe Thai gold shops aren't accepting it in exchange for gold yet, but several well known gold shops in more developed territories have accepted Bitcoin for gold for years:
https://comparegoldprices.com/bitcoin/

6 hours ago, how241 said:

Thanks twig !!!....I will do some watching and reading up on this.  I have heard about these types of new exchanges but didn't really see the advantages.  Now I am starting to  get it as a USA person,  the crazy USA laws on everything concerning money makes it hard to play around with a few coins.  Thanks again !!!

Welcome! Be careful: if Bitcoin is "being your own bank", Bisq is being your own exchange. So, the process is much different than nanny exchanges.

With respect to your situation selling BTC for fiat, here's what I learned so far:

• You can trade in any fiat currency where you have an acceptable payment method, without connecting that payment method to Bisq - you just list it in the offer. However, takes patience in small, new Bisq markets, because liquidity is low.
• It's not for high frequency trading or very small amounts.
• Have to leave Bisq always online for best results, unless you are in Euro or USD, where there's always liquidity for the takers.
• It cost much more to be the taker than the maker.
• You can lower your trading fees by using its internal BSQ token, the way you can on Binance and such. Don't buy BSQ though, until you are sure you will continue to trade on Bisq. Just use BTC for fees at first.
• You pay the mining and trading fees up front when you set the offer. You can change it, but if you try to cancel the offer completely, you will forfeit the mining and the trading fee. For the taker, that's naturally not an issue. I think you can claim for trading fee refund with the Bisq DAO, but I never tried. Few times I did cancel an offer, I just write it off as a small donation to Bisq development.
• You are not really limited by the low initial trading limit or the maxumum limits, because you can put up as many offers as you wish. That costs more in fees, but also spreads the risk among several offers.
• Selling BTC for Cash deposit is safer than National/Same bank transfer. (For buying BTC, doesn't matter, because you know that you are not a scammer.) Scammers are naturally lazy, stealthy people, who don't want to appear on cash deposit machine cameras or at a bank branch. (With online banking app transfer, they can later say they transferred the money to you in error, and try to have the bank reverse the payment. Hard to do after showing up at a CDM or a branch...) If they try to force you to change payment to online banking by pushing the trade into arbitration, just request damages for a broken deal from the arbitrator during the dispute, in the amount of mining and trading fees.
• You can  communicate with the counterparty - by email or in the app - once the trade begins. If the buyer wants to use cash deposit machine, most cash deposit sellers will allow the buyer to round down to the smallest fiat note the deposit machine will accept.
• Everyone wants the best deal, with a small spread. So, for best results, if you set offers, set the kind of offers you yourself would be willing to take, if you were the counterparty.

7 hours ago, how241 said:

Thanks....Do you know if someone was to sell BTC  there would they be able to transfer the funds to a Thai bank ?

This type of exchange doesn't need to connect to any banks the way centralized exchanges do.
The counterparty buying your BTC would simply transfer the funds to your Thai bank account from theirs, using their banking app or the bank's cash deposit machine or a bank branch.

Once you see the THB in your bank account, you release your escrowed BTC in the app.

Watch these two tutorials:

If you still don't understand after that, there's a lot more detail on their site, in their Youtube channel, and their forum.

On 9/2/2019 at 7:42 AM, how241 said:

Anyone know where a USA expat, living full time in Thailand,  can trade/sell coins in Thailand. Most of the Thai exchanges will not accept USA customers due to all the paperwork required by the USA Govt. 

https://bisq.network/

Not much liquidity there yet, but the more governments do, the more popular such decentralized exchanges will be.
Just a matter of time and patience.

1 minute ago, jacko45k said:

Tell that to Binance customers and Bitcoin7.

I think you see a spy under your bed.....

 

Actually I can also get cash without the ATM card using my phone too...

Exactly what I meant: once Binance and Bitcoin7 customers gave their bitcoins to the former, the bitcoins ceased being the customers' - just as happens when your money becomes the banks' money, as soon as deposited to "your" account.

That's also exactly why banks are historically proven not safe to store money, same as Binance and ANY custodial exchange are not safe to store bitcoins.

Your bank account itself, required the banks' permission to open.

Bitcoin doesn't require permission to open as many accounts as you wish. Only Bitcoin custodial companies require permission to have Bitcoin accounts there.

Bitcoin custodians are not Bitcoin.

Cardless ATM services also require the banks' PERMISSION to make THEIR money YOURS again, because the app won't work without connecting to the banks' network, and receiving PERMISSION to do a cardless ATM withdrawal.

40 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

No permission here either, simply show a passport. Actually use the machines up front, no passport needed. 

That's also fundamentally false, again because it's not your money once in your bank account.
 

Both the teller and ATM involve instances of permission; you can only take it out from a branch at certain times, signing exactly as in your passport, not wearing dark glasses or otherwise obscuring your appearance, only when your number is called to a certain window, and so on...

You can only take it out of ATMs, if you show your card, and in even more limited amounts.

Anyone who has had their bank account "temporarily frozen" while the bank "investigates" something, can confirm to you that simply showing a passport or anything else will NOT trigger the usual PERMISSION to make the BANK's money YOURS again.

In that sense, Bitcoin is permissionless compared to a bank.
As long as you have your access key, which can be backed up in numerous places to prevent loss, bitcoins always remain yours.

On 10/15/2019 at 5:23 AM, Gweiloman said:

Seriously, if one doesn’t keep their money in a bank, where can they keep it? We are not talking investments, bonds etc.
Interesting point about legal title of cash being transferred to the bank upon depositing it. Nevertheless, you can still get it back anytime you want as long as the bank is still trading. No matter how you look at it, it is still considered the safest way to keep your money.

Where, is just common sense we were taught or deduced as children.

The big clue for me was that my "piggy bank" was not really a "bank", and upon even my childish observation didn't resemble a real bank in the least...

That banks are "considered the safest way to keep your money" is simply a religious belief - same as the belief some have in the infallibility of Bitcoin.

Unlike Bitcoin THUS FAR though, the banking cult has proven countless times, throughout history, in every territory that it is far from infallible and safest - particularly because of the well-obscured fact that once your money is in it, there's not guarantee that "you can still get it back anytime you want".

13 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

So do you keep your money under your mattress?

Just a minor point- money in the bank is still legally your money
 

If you think the only alternative to keeping your money in a bank is "your mattress", then I rest my case on your previous response here.

Where I keep it is none of your business.

And thank you for such a well documented, but blatantly false rebuttal.
In actuality, the major point is:

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bank-deposits.asp

Quote

When someone opens a bank account and makes a cash deposit, he surrenders the legal title to the cash, and it becomes an asset of the bank. In turn, the account is a liability to the bank.

On 10/11/2019 at 1:29 PM, Tilacme said:

buy bitcoin, no permissions required!

That, and keep as little of your money in banks as necessary.

Any money sheeple put in banks legally ceases to be their money and becomes just the banks' liability to them.

OMG was a classic example of "Crypto Experts" hype, which no one should forget.

Was going to tokenize Thailand, because based in BKK and some big cheese or two from some THB bank or banks (K-bank if I remember right) was behind it, AND built on the mighty Ethereum!!! So, what could possibly go wrong?

This is how OMG stands now:

https://www.coinigy.com/s/i/5d822e5d6dca8/

And that's the weekly interval chart! Blew through the long and short interval Fibonacci like it wasn't even there.

Means to me that it had no fundamentals of any kind - just straight pump and dump on the ignorant of Thailand. All kinds of "crypto experts" like Tiwari were hyping it though, and probably will again.

Hope new people in the next wave of capital and s***coins don't fall for such things again...

On 9/16/2019 at 4:19 PM, Conno said:

Cool....as and when.

Here's another that has just been uploaded which I'm sure will push your buttons too. Self made multi millionaire Wall Street Trader who started out in the UK as an orphan in foster care with $150 in his pocket and the clothes he was standing up in.  His views on BTC and how this is going to change everything.  Once again when someone as smart as this guys talks it's advisable to listen........therefore take it as water off a ducks back when others bad mouth crypto. 

I get what he means when he says most have no frame of reference to compare this technology against. People in general dismiss it because humankind has never had such an invention before..........EVER.  Hey people can take it on-board or dismiss it right, it's a free world LOL. Enjoy.

 

 

I have an associate in BKK who subscribed to Tiwari's expensive newsletter on cryptocurrencies. 

I think it was Palm Beach Confidential, maybe?

He lost a lot of money following that advice during last s-coin bull run on things like OMG, for example.

In that particular example, in the end, the Thai banks went with the Wall Street product, rather than homegrown OMG, which was backed by some big names in  the Land of Something:

https://www.crowdfundinsider.com/2019/05/147194-project-inthanon-bank-of-thailand-pushes-forward-with-central-bank-digital-currency/

So, I think the cryptosphere is too unpredictable even for the smartest to predict, and a lot of what they say is just self-serving hype to sell "picks and shovels" to the herds...
Be careful!