Silvermane

1 hour ago, wordchild said:

The point i wanted to make to the OP is that the idea that EVERY company operating in Thailand is completely dominated by Thais is simply not true.

The vast majority of the major INTERNATIONAL companies that operate in Thailand (a few of which i mentioned above) are not dominated by Thai execs. In most cases (that i can think of) many of  the key positions are held by non-Thais.

Obviously International businesses that operate here are required to adhere to Thai Law eg as regards to the level of Thai shareholding (covering the company owned Thai assets) , however these companies are able to structure themselves in ways that stay  within the law but protect their own interests and retain effective control.

The Thai Government is extremely keen to attract international companies to Thailand, especially those that intend to use Thailand as their regional HQ, and they are very well aware that a certain flexibility is required if they are to do this. 

 

Hi wordchild, thanks for nuancing some of the earlier inputs. Of course, nothing is as one-sided as it is ever claimed to be, but what was said up until now certainly reflects the sense we were getting from some of the job ads for these types of roles. It left us feeling that this was something we should probably not spend much more time in pursuing if you already know beforehand that the deck is stacked against you.

If the local companies tend to be Thai exec dominated and the international companies typically bring in their own, known quantity, execs from other parts of the world (at least, that's been the case in my experience so I would think the same would apply for Thailand), then I reckon it's going to be an uphill battle. Not that we shy away from challenges, but I also like to target our efforts where it has the highest chance of success.

If however there is any way to keep this path open, happy to hear about how we could improve our chances to come across and be considered for the limited amount of opportunities where a foreign exec would be welcome :). We've obviously been putting feelers out on LinkedIn and reaching out to some of the more reputable Thai recruiters (sometimes on the back of roles that we knew she would not be considered for), but not a peep back so far. So just weighing the cost/benefit of pursuing this strategy by way of staying informed through things like this forum.

Again, many thanks to all for sharing your perspectives!

16 hours ago, wordchild said:

What about searching for a position with one of the international FMCG companies that have a significant presence  in Thailand eg Nestle, Pernod,Diageo, Unilever, Haleon, etc etc. Probably zero chance that your wife (or any external hire) could get a very senior position with one of these. However , if her profile fits, she might get a shot at a good mid-level role.  

A finance role within an NGO or even the UN (which is huge here) might also be worth considering.

  Forget about local Thai companies, especially family controlled ones, for all the reasons mentioned above.

My wife does have contacts at Nestle in Europe (think she may know a few at Unilever as well), but doubtful that it's something that would lead to anything, even mid-level, in Thailand without having spent some time working for those companies directly first. One of the thoughts is to see if one of those companies is hiring here in Australia (not for a CFO role, those only come up once in a blue moon of course) but it would imply taking a step back as well as turning this into a longer term strategy. At that point, we may as well play the long game with her current company in hopes that the Vietnam expansion pans out, in which case she's more likely to be moved up to the MD level.

25 minutes ago, Celsius said:

There is absolutely zero value your wife could bring to a Thai company. I could go on and on and really on about why is that the case, but the major issue is that as much as Thais, Westerners are stuck in their ways. This is a strictly cultural thing, no offense.

 

As for the Australian property do not sell it. Rent it out and try to cover mortgage payments that way. Very easy to sell in Australia, very hard to sell in Thailand.

 

 

 

 

no offence taken whatsoever! We had a suspicion that this would be a culturally biased role, and we don't take that personally either from the Thai or for you for pointing it out ;)

But not being on the ground, it's difficult to know for sure so thx for confirming.

Agreed on not wanting to sell, however the mortgage is quite significant and rent would certainly not cover the full extent of the mortgage and maybe not even the interest only side of things.

Anything that we would need to cover on top of the rent towards the mortgage either reduces our potential to rent something nice in Thailand or drives up the need for a more financially rewarding income in Thailand. Trust me, numbers have been crunched on this given that the Mrs is financial and all :D

11 minutes ago, marin said:

Unless she is fluent in written and spoken Thai her odds are zero.

We get by on the basics and we'd be very keen to get fluent once we get a chance to move, but written seems like a veeery long shot :) 

We had it in our heads that potentially Sr finance people who would be reporting into her would be proficient enough in English that they would be able to assist sufficiently for that not to be an issue initally.

But yes, point taken and that was of course something we had considered as well.

11 minutes ago, LogicThai said:

A couple of pointers that might be useful to you and your wife:
•    Many Thai companies are family-owned or family-controlled, and the CFO tend to be a family member of close ally of the family, hence a Thai national (Sino-Thai, actually).
•    In general, for a number of reasons, Thai companies see little point in importing talent.
•    Nominal compensation levels in Thailand are often substantially lower than in the Western world. 
•    Visa and work permit are not big hurdles, if a Thai company really wants you to join the. Sadly enough, hardly any company will want to.
•    There are non-Thais who serve as CFO of a Thai company, but those I know of have been appointed by a foreign majority (or large minority) shareholder.
•    Alternative strategies that might be considered in the case of your wife might include joining a company as regional CFO, based in Bangkok but not limited to Thailand, or joining a professional services company like a Big4, once again preferably in a regional capacity.

Thx for that, that really confirms some of what we had thought as well as teaches us some things that we couldn't have known without having already lived/worked in Thailand.

My wife currently works for a global FMCG company and we migrated to Australia from Europe thx to this company. Whilst we've thoroughly enjoyed our near-decade long stay in Australia, we do feel we're ready for the next step though. 

Unfortunately, whilst her company is aware of this, they do not have any upcoming opportunities in Thailand and the other areas under consideration in S.E-Asia are not something we would be inclined to consider ourselves. There may be potential for Vietnam at one point but it's too vague and long-term to want to stick around for this.

Hi all,

we've been looking hard at relocating to Thailand well before the retirement age which means we obviously still need to generate income for many years to come.

My wife is currently on a good income in Australia being that she's a CFO and this in large part carries our mortgage.

We would prefer not to have to sell our Australian property at this point in time, which means that my wife would not be able to step down too much in terms of salary expectation from any role that she would be looking at in Thailand. In looking at salary ranges for CFO's in Thailand, there shouldn't be any issue to keep covering our Australian mortgage, however, all the ads we're seeing are for Thai nationals only.

I'm aware that, similar to Australia, certain roles need very elaborate justification to be outsourced to a non-local individual, but I just wanted to check whether anyone knows from experience if expats are genuinely considered for high-end finance positions at all or whether these types of positions are almost always held by Thai people (language being one of a variety of understandable considerations of course) and employers will therefore not go through the hassle of Visa and work permit sponsorship?

If the latter, then I guess our only viable relocation strategy would be to sell the property first, eliminating the mortgage pressure, and then look for less financially rewarding (but hopefully less stressful) work ;)

Thanks in advance for any insights anyone is able to share!

Finally found some more specific info on this here:

https://www.samuiforsale.com/condominium/legal-definition-condominium-in-thailand.html

Quote

A condominium in Thailand could technically be a flat or horizontal building structure or vertical high rise building structure. Horizontal condos or a 'Villa Condominium' are as such not defined in the Condominium Act. A villa condominium under the Condominium Act is based on a decision by the government's legislative advisory but must obtain a condominium license. The legality of this type of (horizontal) condominiums under the Condominium Act is controversial and licensing is usually refused.

Guess horizontal condo's are a no-go...

Shame as I fail to see the difference between highrise or horizontal condos from the government's pov wheras it would be a lot more attractive from a foreign ownership/investment pov.

Quote

“condominium” means a building that persons are able to divide ownership
in the building in parts where each part comprises ownership in personal property and
co-ownership in common property;

in the example of a development with multiple separate units there would still be common property in a shared driveway or potentially even a communal pool. So that's why I was hoping that this would be equivalent to a condominium building with common property. Assuming they're all on the same land title of course.

Guess I'll have to read through the full pdf to see if it effectively calls out the need for a single dwelling with communal areas so thx for sharing the pdf.

1 minute ago, Mavideol said:

 

you already answered your own question

I was afraid of that ???? Just wishful thinking then...

Thx for taking the time to reply though.

Hi, only started researching the idea of buying a property in Thailand recently (so be gentle :D) and have read up as much as I could, but still have one thing that isn't quite clear that I'm unable to find an answer on.

I'm aware that foreigners can't freehold anything other than a condo in Thailand provided maximum 49% of the development is 'freeheld' by foreigners, but I was just wondering if developments where one estate has multiple detached properties (not condos per se) could qualify technically as a condo??

For example I just stayed at an AirBNB property in Samui where the owner (with Thai wife) had built 5 separate dwellings and there was one still up for sale.

Without knowing the exact details, let's assume that one of the villas was owned by this person's Thai wife, another was sold to a foreigner and 2 were owned by Thai or were intended to be taken up as leasehold by foreigners...

Does the condo law of 49% maximum foreigner ownership apply to this kind of development and would that mean that I could purchase this property as freehold under the condominium act?

Or is the condominum act quite specific on the property type and does the condo need to reside within one main building and can therefore not be a detached villa?

Probably clutching at straws and the answer may be obvious, but just wanted to make sure ;)

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

 

You can be a hero for under a thousand bucks, why not? You get to say I told you so and and you tell her nest time to come to you. 

But I've already been the hero the first time around and already and quite clearly said that in future she should always come to me to talk first. If we're supposed to be a family, then I would say families talk things through before doing stuff. If she wants to go out and make decisions by herself that's fine too, but then she carries the full risk and consequences of her actions.

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

 

You might try to be a little more supportive, at least she's trying to do something with her life.

That's what I already wrote myself and it's the only reason why I would consider bailing her out again. If it's true of course.

But obviously bailing her out again after having clearly spelled out the conditions of me bailing her out the first time means that bailing her out now will set the precedent that no matter what happens I will always save her bacon. I will in effect be rendering anything I say or any conditions I put on understandings with her as worthless as she will understand that she can always get her way regardless of what I've said in the past.

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Keep in mind, if she were a successful business woman she would likely have a better option than you...

Oh so we're automatically assuming that I'm a fat old farang are we? ????????

I would argue that even if she were a successful business woman, she would still be lucky to have me ????????

Unfortunately I've run into the same issue...

GF started a grilled squid business when Covid hit so she had to buy a lot of stuff to get going (conversion of her motorbike, grill, supplies, buying daily fresh squid etc.). She was actually doing quite well in the sense that had she not had to pay the interest on the loan she got from a loan shark, she would be able to make a decent income. With the interest rate being too high however, it was not sustainable in the longer run so she reluctantly came to me.

I checked out everything was on the up and up and I was not being scammed, dialled in via videochat when she forked over some money to one loan shark who was cash only and got sent the entire track record or repayments to another loan shark who worked with bank transfers.

I told her I would be bailing her out on the condition that she would never again go to another loan shark as the interest rates are just crazy, so guess what...

The business started to hit a bit of a slump in the more recent months as the Covid crisis continues to drag out. She wasn't making the same kind of money she was at the start so she thought it a good idea to go all in and rent a spot at a loy kratong festival which lasted 4 days at 5000THB per day just to get a spot. She was sure I would say no to the idea, so she thought the best course of action was, of course, to go back to a loan shark...

It never ceases to amaze me that new business owners (pretty much all over the world, this isn't a Thailand exclusive) think that they can turn an unsuccessful business into a successful one by throwing more money at it...

Bottom line, she loaned 40k THB, 20 for the spot and 20 for supplies, transportation and such and needs to pay back 500THB per day...

She of course didn't make the money back that she put into the festival and didn't even break even, so she was only able to repay 15k THB of the loan, leaving her with 25k to repay. Unsurprisingly the loan shark still wants 500THB per day even though the principle amount of the outstanding loan has already been significantly reduced.

She has now stopped paying for about a week and is at her wits end and came knocking once more, knowing the barrage she would face from me.

I am torn as I struggle with the fact that she broke the condition on which I repaid the first loan and I am a man of principle, but on the other hand we're talking about a loved one and I hate to see 500THB per day that serves absolutely no purpose go to a person who will gladly take advantage of the fact that she can't repay the principle amount in perpetuity.

If every thing checks out (and trust me, I will make absolutely sure that she isn't playing me this time after she was able to get me to pay of a legitimate loan last time), the argument I'm making to convince myself to fork over the money again is the fact that at least she was trying to do something constructive with it and taking a chance on life. It's not like she was wasting it on fake Gucci bags and stupid jewelry.

The difference is that I would always put thought into the scenario where I'm not able to make my business venture a succes, whereas (and I assume this is typical Thai?) she only thought of the dream scenario where she would make a killing during the festival and wouldn't have had to tell me about it until after she had been successful.

So anyway, that's my story fwiw. Not sure how to proceed next. I'm not in the country so I can't go an negotiate with the loan shark directly.

He has a copy of her ID and Tabien Baan so I'm assuming pulling a runner is out of the question??

I'm worried he or some of his goons chase her down to her home town where they will be very unforgiving of the fact that she skipped town.

And I actually don't like the thought of the loan shark being out of pocket either. As mentioned in this thread previously, she did enter into a contract and the loan shark should not be worse off for it. But I also don't agree with the concept of extortionate interest rates and my GF has already said that he could not be moved on the amounts so at that point I kinda think f u buddy.

Would be happy to hear from you guys on how best to proceed.

Pffff this Corona <deleted> is ruining so many things and in the larger context I realize that the following is not that important but I just needed to voice the frustration anyway:

Had to send back the GF a lot sooner than expected as she was scared she would not be able to get back to Thailand. We just got her on the last Jetstar flight back in the nick of time on the 24th. I originally thought of keeping her here until mid April but booked the 31st of March once corona started to become more of a reality and then moved it up to the 24th once the flight on the 31st got scrapped.

If we hadn't done that then she would have been stuck here indefinitely with the likelihood of her overstaying becoming very real. I would've welcomed that as I wouldn't have minded being stuck with her and I would assume that the government would be more forgiving wrt overstaying in the current climate.

But, understandably, she wanted to be close to her loved ones during this crisis and while I believe she would be a lot safer here (especially considering that I had her covered with health insurance) I didn't want to stand in her way of returning (while secretly hoping that the flight on the 24th would also get canceled ????)

It looks like it'll be at least 6 months now before she'll be able to come back (and with the potential for a 2 week quarantine being required it won't be fun either) so that means the first year of the visa will be eaten up for the majority by Corona. Luckily I got the 3 year one, I'd hate to think that I would've gotten a visa for just a year and than lost the opportunity to use half of it.

Now just sitting here hoping the situation in Thailand doesn't escalate to the point where I regret my decision in letting her go and that I don't lose my job so that I still have the necessary funds to actually bring her back...

Well nevermind that last question... Just got the response back even though I didn't click that "I confirm..." button!

Lightning quick again so I was expecting that not to mean anything good.

But low and behold, Visa granted!! 

Not just that, but 3 years multiple entry!!! ????????

No consistency whatsoever, but I'm not complaining this time and am absolutely stoked!

I included a bankbook this time that was not anywhere near sufficient as it only had 15k THB worth of transactions across 3 months but I did showcase the relationship better by including some chat records and the financial sponsorship going back to 2017 (although not that much).

I also bundled things together in PDF's rather than just chucking evidence (such as pictures) into the submission as separate attachments and made sure there was a narrative in those PDF's.

For example I bundled the pictures and travel history (including tickets paid by me) together in one document and explained what pictures were taken when so that it became 1 storyline rather than just separate files in attachment to the submission.

I didn't need to do that for the first successful submission, but I reckon it sure helped our case this time. So take that fwiw, hope it helps someone along the way.

Well I'm off to start looking for plane tickets and start the countdown to when she arrives ????

sorry Bevup, can't help with that one.

Does anybody have any experience with the following in an online 600 Visa submission?

Once you submit online, you get the request to go in for the biometrics and your status is set to "initial assessment"

In the past, after the biometrics have been done, I've hit the button

"I confirm I have provided information as requested" at the bottom of the attachments page (see screenshot). It then gives you a dialog box that states that you accept that they can make a final decision and progresses the application stage from "initial assessment" to "Further Assessment".

My question(s):

Does the "initial assessment" progress to "further assessment" without clicking on the "I confirm I have provided information as requested" button?

If so, I would assume that that gives you the opportunity to add further documentation if it is requested. My fear is that I clicked the button too soon on the last submission and that's why they did not bother asking for further clarifications.

OR

Did I do it right the first 2 times and you effectively need to click the "I confirm I have provided..." button to progress to the "Further Assessment" stage or else the submission will sit indefinitely on the "Initial Assessment" stage. The question then becomes, do you still get the chance to supply additional information if so requested or will they simply not bother asking for supplemental info anymore as you've basically given them the right to make the call based on the provided info as is.                                      

1. I did provide the birth certificates but don't think it does much. The reasoning behind it for me was to substantiate one of the reasons she has to return home.

That then led me to having to get a copy of her marriage certificate to demonstrate a name change so that it was clear that both kids were hers as one of them was under her original name and one wasn't

2. online doesn't give you the option for fiancee, so if you can choose what you want on the paper based, it's been recommended to me to put yourself as fiancee

3. This criteria was supposed to be a very important reason to determine willingness to return home as well as supports her financial ability to support herself on the trip. Unfortunately for me, 6 months worth of payslips at 23,000THB/month meant didley squat for some reason... I would advise you to really think hard about this one as my refusal note said that they basically don't take into account anything I have to offer.

4. As per the previous point, your income and offer to financially support her is completely disregarded when not all of the other criteria are met. I have substantially more capacity to support compared to what you have mentioned and it wasn't even considered. While I agree with Will27 that a bank book is not mandatory (I didn't do it the first time either and successfully obtained the visa) for some reason on this second run it was considered important. Given that my girl could demonstrate a good income, I don't know how else to interpret their refusal note which said the following:

You have provided no evidence of your own personal funds. While I note the support of your contact in Australia to cover the costs of your trip, your lack of evidence of personal financial standing leads me to question whether your personal circumstances in your home country are such, that they may induce you to remain in Australia beyond your intended stay.

Despite the good salary, my girl doesn't have any savings as all the money goes to mom. She also has no assets that she can demonstrate (car or house) so basically I'm snookered on this one myself now ????

Would her ability to get a line of credit (credit card) help??

Would it be possible for me to put a bank guarantee in place for a loan that her bank would issue to her to undertake the trip?? In the case of the loan, I would think more weight would be given by the embassy to a loan approval by a bank compared to me saying that I'm happy to support her trip or just transferring a bunch of money to her account. As Will27 has pointed out, the latter is usually frowned on and rapidly discounted.

5. Definitely complete it, it will never hurt

6. not having an exit stamp is perfectly normal for Australia. My girl freaked out about not having that stamp either as she was scared she wouldn't be let in again on her multiple entry. Was perfectly fine and she was able to return 2 more times. She was still upset not to have the nice exit stamp though ????

Question from my end on this one though: do I really have to call out the previous failed attempt? Of course they have it on file, especially since it's all been done online in my case, but I don't want to increase the chances of a lazy officer making life easy on themselves by just refusing again when I point out the very recent refusal. By not pointing it out I might get lucky in the sense that that same lazy officer might not look at previous results?? But if they do pick up on it I assume I will have shot myself in the foot by not answering truthfully to the question.

7. I didn't put myself down on either occasion. I thought the same as pdtokyo and wanted to avoid the extra complexities or complications of having to provide info given that I'm not officially sanctioned to assist... Not sure what I'll do on the next submission now.

As for my new attempt: I've redrafted all my documents in a way that they are forced to actually at least take note of what we've written rather than just attaching pictures of the crucial documents and then providing supporting documentation separately. For example: on the previous attempt I submitted the payslips as individual pictures and then had a separate letter from the girlfriend explaining that she really loves this job, was really lucky to get it in the first place and has every intent to go back to it. I imagine that they didn't even bother going into that letter. Now I've combined all of that into a PDF so that they are forced to at least notice it.

Hi guys, thx so much for the responses. I'll try to respond on some of the points raised as best as I can:

- I mentioned several times in the submission that I was going to sponsor and would be responsible for any and all costs, but have not done so in an 'official' capacity. My understanding was that only family or government officials were allowed to officially sponsor someone. On the 600 tourist visa, I did select the sponsored option but when it came down to selecting which relative I was, I selected something like an uncle and explained the reasoning behind it as I really wanted to drive the point home that I would be financially responsible. I did so on the first (successful) submission as well and repeated this in the exact same way.

- yes she did stay for 14 weeks the first time which does exceed the amount of time that an employer would grant her leave. This is simply because she lost her job sometime during that year and was able to travel more freely. But even without work, she still returned home and didn't work here either (she's lazy as hell :D) so it should actually be more reinforcement to the fact that she will always return and not the opposite. She has now found a job which does pay better and has held that since the start of 2019. We received approval from her current employer to get leave for a month and while that is atypical, some of it is obviously unpaid. We had also stated that she would want to return at the end of the year (hence the request for multiple entry) so that we could travel to WA at that time for 3 weeks. We stated that we were not sure if she would be able to get additional leave but that we wanted to get the multiple entry just in case she would get this approved by her employer. We did already indicate that she now has improved income during this submission but guess we should emphasize it more.

- When she was here the first time I was able to work from home more than usual so that gave me the time to spend with her. We then weekend tripped to the Gold Coast and Sydney and things like that. While I would have much preferred to spend all my time with her, this was as close as I could get and was very happy for it. She was more than happy to lounge around and watch youtube all day or 'play facebook' when I was at work so it all worked out rather well ????

- We don't intend to evolve our relationship beyond what we currently have as we are both happy with the arrangement so it'll be hard to state anything else or to go for the fiancee Visa. Obviously, if immigration is intent on throwing these kinds of spanners in the works there will be one of the following consequences:

1. Relationship will fizz out

2. I'm forced to take the relationship to the next level just for the sake of humoring a government instance....

- Wrt her bankbook, I'm still unsure what I should do here. I didn't submit it the first time as she is very much a cash-only person and things haven't changed in that regard since the first visa. She has sent me her last 3 months worth of statements and there was only 15k THB worth of transactions on there with an unsurprising 0 balance at the end. She gets the money she makes at work paid out cash and she hands most of it over to the mom who takes care of the kids when she's at work. Given that the main reason for refusal is the lack of proof of her personal funds (i.e. no bankbook provided), I feel I have no other choice but to add it. But in providing it, they might see their point reinforced that she does not have good financial standing and will therefore be inclined to not respect the conditions of her visa...

Hi Ootai,

appreciate the comment.

Unfortunately, the embassy telephone number nowadays is a menu-based system that is obviously put in place to reduce the amount of people that try to ring up and talk to the case officer. At least, that's what the GF said when she tried it a couple of times.

There is still an ID and name of the visa officer on the refusal form, but good luck trying to get a hold of that person to find out why the visa request was denied other than the generic BS they send you in the letter as you rightfully point out.

I would be happy to talk to them (as would the GF) and explain the whole situation at length, but if they don't even give you the courtesy of actually connecting with them, that's kind of hard to do. Maybe they were calling her to set up an interview with her but you would expect them to leave a message with their direct contact. Guess it was just easier to click on the 'refused' button and have us pay up again for a new submission. They likely don't care that this also sets you up for failure for subsequent submissions as I assume I will have to refer to this failed submission the next time we try?? 

I substantiated the document in every which way I felt was possible (including pictures of us together in trips to Bali, Thailand, Gold Coast, Sydney, Melbourne) and this is not one of the crazy "let's bring the whole family over" kind of situations btw. Just a straightforward "bring the girlfriend that you've known for the past 3 years over".

I'm an exec who makes a good living so money shouldn't be the issue either and I confirmed at various points in the submission that I would gladly carry all costs including health/travel insurance (which I have effectively done in the past when she was here). The only thing I don't have enough is time! Which is the whole point of bringing the GF over rather than me going down there to visit. I can do that 2 times per year at the most and since I went in November I can't afford to fly back now and handhold her to the embassy unfortunately.

The fact that their generic statement waffles on about not being convinced that she wouldn't return to Thailand is laughable in light of the fact that she's been here 3 times 2 years ago and always went back. She never even stayed the full 3 months at any given time that she came over as she didn't want to be away from the kids...

Sorry if the frustration is oozing of the page here btw. Just so utterly annoyed with this situation.

What I have refrained from doing up until now is to also include evidence of the money I send her now and again as I was scared that this might be considered as her being paid for spending time with me in which case it could be considered 'working'. But in hindsight I might have been better off including that anyway.

My current thoughts are to try an immediate resubmit with the added financial trail (of me sending money over the past couple of years) and to only request a single entry visa like we did the first time. Wdyt??

Hi guys,

I'm pretty bummed out at the minute since I've just had a 600 Tourist Visa refused ????

To give a bit more background:

- Me and the GF applied for a single entry visa at the end of 2017 and received a multiple entry valid for a year only 4 days later.

- Fast forward to the present day and I applied in the exact same way. Only difference was that I now requested a multiple entry visa and it got refused within 2 days.

I thought it was supposed to be easier the second time around??

GF didn't overstay the first time (she came to Oz 3 times: 6 weeks, 2 weeks and again 6 weeks spread out over the year) and respected all the conditions of the visa the first time around. I referred to the first Visa when submitting for the second one.

What makes it worse is that the GF received a call from the embassy but didn't take it because she was in the bathroom. She tried calling back but ended up in a generic call centre menu and couldn't get connected to the person who called her. 5 mins later we received the refusal notification ????????

Why would they bother calling her if they're not going to give her the option to respond back?? They didn't send a mail to ask for additional info and they also didn't give us review rights on the visa decision so we can't appeal it at all. I really feel like they didn't give us a fair shot this time around so I'd want to know what I can do to overturn this.

As for the reason of the refusal, they've mainly pointed to the lack of evidence of personal funds. The first time I didn't supply her bank book as it was pretty dire but my income and savings were more than enough to satisfy the requirement (as they should have been today as well). This time I didn't supply the bank book either but it was 'supposedly' refused on these grounds: 

In this case, I am not satisfied that clause 600.211 in Schedule 2 of the Migration
Regulations is satisfied. This clause provides that:
600.211
The applicant genuinely intends to stay temporarily in Australia for the purpose for which the visa is
granted, having regard to:
(a) whether the applicant has complied substantially with the conditions to which the last
substantive visa, or any subsequent bridging visa, held by the applicant was subject; and
(b) whether the applicant intends to comply with the conditions to which the Subclass 600
visa would be subject; and
(c) any other relevant matter.
After carefully considering the information you have provided as evidence of your purpose in
visiting Australia, I am not satisfied that you genuinely intend to visit Australia temporarily for
the purpose for which the visa would be granted.
In assessing whether or not you intend a genuine visit, I have taken into account the
information provided in the application relating to your employment, personal circumstances,
previous international travel, incentive to return home, and financial situation.
You have provided no evidence of your own personal funds. While I note the support of
your contact in Australia to cover the costs of your trip, your lack of evidence of personal
financial standing leads me to question whether your personal circumstances in your home
country are such, that they may induce you to remain in Australia beyond your intended stay.
Accordingly I am not satisfied that you intend only a genuine visit to Australia.
On balance, I find that you have failed to adequately demonstrate strong employment,
financial and other personal commitments that may support the likelihood of your compliance
with the conditions attached to the visa and your return home at the end of your proposed
stay in Australia.
I therefore find that you do not satisfy the requirements of clause 600.211 in Schedule 2 of
the Regulations. As you do not satisfy clause 600.211, I have not assessed your application
against the remaining criteria for this subclass of visa

I did provide a letter from her employer (she had changed work and now had a substantially higher salary than the first time!), a holiday permission slip, 6 month worth of payslips, the works! But clearly that wasn't enough... The first time we applied she had been with her company for almost 2 years. This time it had only been 1 year... would that have made any difference?? I still find it a stretch for them to claim we had not adequately demonstrated "strong employment" or "other personal commitments". I believe we more than covered the former and the latter was unchanged from the first time we submitted.

Or was it the fact that we asked for a multiple entry visa straight away? Does that mean you get handed off to a different department that scrutinizes more heavily??

And so the biggest question now becomes: what can we do to still get a visa?

I'm happy to reapply but not if I'm basically fighting windmills. I'll gladly submit just for the single entry if that helps matters and I'll just do single entry ones every time. But I would need to know where things went wrong and how I could address it.

Any insights would be greatly appreciated!!!

Hi guys, thanks for the answers and insights!

Just one additional thing: do they only start reviewing the submission after the biometrics have been collected? Or is it the case that they already start reviewing as soon as you submit and then they let you know the outcome shortly after you've dropped by for biometrics?

Reason I'm asking: processing times are roughly 2 weeks and she can only go to Bkk for biometrics in 2 weeks time. So if they only start processing after she has done the biometrics, I lose 2 weeks basically. Since I had hoped to get her here by the 22nd of March so we can then go back to Thailand together to celebrate Song Kran, that would basically kill that plan.

Hey guys,

doing an e600 tourist visa online for a girl who works in a shop that is owned by her mom.

On the employment page of the online forms (pg 12 out of 20) do I enter this as being 'self-employed' (at which point I have to provide an official name for the shop along with other info) or 'other' (where I just get a textbox where I can explain the situation)?

Subsequently what kind of documents would I need to attach at the end of the submission to validate the existence and ownership of the shop?

Many thx in advance!!

8 hours ago, Ooladolla said:

Thanks for that. Yes it's handy being multiple as I had the same and entered just on the last day of the visa for another 3 month visit.

I'm looking at the forms now and forget if I did this part last time, you might be able to help.

Did you complete part K and form 956 ?

also, the part about your signature on form 956, what did you do there ?

thanks

 

Hi mate,

sorry but I didn't use the paper based forms as I did everything online and and they differ substantially from the online version.

There was probably a question online about having had assistance from an agent, bust since I could say no to that it didn't ask any further questions online.

In terms of the communication and allowing other people to receive it, for convenience sake (since I was basically submitting everything online on her behalf) I had setup an email account for her so that I could manage all the comms on it. That also meant that there was no need for me to complete any sections on allowing others to receive communication on her behalf.

As for the biometrics, all I had to do online was tick a box that she agreed to the information being collected and that was it.

I'd recommend online versus paper based any day of the week tbh. So much easier!

1 hour ago, Surin13 said:

Not only that, you can also apply for another visa while in Australia, do I hear weddings bells  in the future 555.

 

Glad it worked out for you. 

Haha, early days still Surin, but appreciate the sentiment :)

3 hours ago, Ooladolla said:

One other thing, did you receive a visa which granted entry for twelve months - at 3 month maximum stays ? That is , a multiple entry visa ?

Hi mate, in all the excitement I had actually forgotten to look at that... :D

I requested single entry on the application as we haven't been together that long and since I focused so heavily on my sponsorship of her, I didn't want her to be able to come back into Australia without me actually being involved if you get my drift. 

But to my surprise, if I'm reading this right, she actually got the multiple entry one:

Holy cow.... I could have saved myself the trouble of writing all my fear-riddled posts 'cause guess what came in the mail today!!!

I don't know if this is a new record or not: submitted Thu afternoon Oz time, biometrics taken Fri 1pm Bkk time and visa grant notification today 

For the record, I ended up not submitting her bankbook statements and just using her payslips, my payslips and my bank account overview

Again, thanks for all who helped and especially you Surin!

Ok, crisis averted... probably...

I just created a temp immi account just to see what my options were in the initial stages of the submission as for the life of me I couldn't remember if there were any options dedicated to a family sponsored stream. Fortunately there are and I did not select that one obviously.

I selected Tourism purpouses on both options so I think I should be allright. Pfffeeeew...

Still begs the question on why only relatives are up for selection in the drop-down box in the funding section when you select to support someone during their stay with you but hey, as long as I'm still in the Tourist stream, I'm happy. They should be able to determine in more than one place of my submission that I am inviting her as a friend and am not purporting to be anything else.

Damn.... I just came to the realisation that I may have botched the application

If someone could pls assist, that would be great....!!

When I came to the section about 'funding' the first question asked online is:

"Give details of how the stay in Australia will be funded"

You can select a bunch of options from a drop-down and I selected "Supported by other person" because I am effectively intending to support her.

The next question is

"What funds will the applicant have available to support their stay in Australia"

The response used was that she was invited by me as her friend and that I would provide proof of my income and savings that would demonstrate that I would be more than capable to support her for a 3 week holiday and would also be taking out a travel/medical insurance for her.

The problem now comes from the next section...

I was now asked to "Give details of the person that will provide support to the applicant" but the only options available were those of family members.

I selected one that matched closest but obviously I couldn't select that I was just a friend.

I'm now very worried that I have automatically pushed myself into the family sponsored strean that I only now have found out about. Processing times for this are substantially longer and require additional forms to be submitted by the sponsor as far as I can see.

I'm happy to provide a bond or whatever to get this done, but I'm just afraid that I have now pushed the application back in time by a substantial margin. 

We have always maintained throughout the application that I am a friend and not a family member and that I have invited her as such. This was the case for the online sections "purpose of stay" where we described this, as well as the funding section described above as well as evidenced by my letter of invitiation on top of a letter written by her in which she gives more background to her reasons for appliying and describes how and when we met and why we thought we had to use the 'supported by other person' option in the online application which left us with no choice but to select a family member. After learning about the family sponsored tourist visa stream however, I now afraid that this won't be enough though...

One question I have myself though:

As I said, after having submitted the application, we got the invitation for biometrics pretty quickly via email. We also noticed in our immi account the status of our submission changed to 'further information required' as well as 2 extra buttons in addition to the  'add attachments' button.

One was for a health examination notification (which basically just said that no medical was required) and the other for the biometrics.

The latter stated that this button would disappear as soon as biometrics were done.

The strange thing however was that after the biometrics were completed in the VFS offices, the button effectively disappeared but that the status of the submission remained at 'further information required'.

Since I didn't receive any other requests for further information, I decided to click on a button stating that you had submitted the requested info. It's a bit scary though as a notification pops up to say that this will finalize the submission and it would basically now all be in the hands of the person reviewing the submission. If I overlooked any other request for further information other than the biometrics (not that I could see how that would be possible) I'm now well and truly in a position that I can't do anything about that anymore.

If anyone could therefore confirm that I interpreted this procedure correctly, that would be great info to have.

I was afraid that not clicking the 'requested information submitted' would just leave my application sitting there even though we had done everything required thereby unnecessarily delaying the process... Hope I did the right thing...