McMacao

On 1/15/2018 at 9:42 AM, questionsreplies said:

 

 

Yes, hard to find bungalow on uncrowded islands, and anyway most of the time there is no 24h electricity, water and Internet. This is why PI s u c k s !

Yep!  That's the catch!

If you want tourist infrastructure, you are going to have other tourists!  No way to avoid that.

5 hours ago, tutsiwarrior said:

 

BS...the only people that call HCMC 'Saigon' are the former south vietnamese that live in Garden Grove and in San Jose in California...most of whom are actively involved in sedition with right wing US anti communist organizations and are not welcome...

 

the Sai Gon river runs close by and ye can't really change the name of the river...there's a nice party down river in Vung Tau...

 

 

I guess I need to get back to Saigon/HCMC again.

I spent some time there in the year 2000, and I was surprised how frequently I saw and heard the word 'Saigon' around the city, at least at that time.

On 5/24/2016 at 4:34 PM, Tomtomtom69 said:

Nowadays few Vietnamese would harbor any resentment towards Americans for what happened to their country just 4 or 5 decades ago (whatever you were doing there in the 1960s I'm sure back then there would have been resentment towards you but definitely NOT now). Plenty of tourists and expats and the behavior of the current lot is much more likely to affect perceptions of you than what happened before most of the current generation were even born (the Vietnamese population is still overwhelmingly young).

1

Well, Vietnamese were at war with French, Chinese, AMericans, and Cambodians...for like hundreds of years.  So that decade with the Americans was quite small.  Plus most Vietnamese will tell you that they won all of their wars...so it's a point of pride.

Plus Saigon, most of the Vietnamese there, they would have fought along side of the Americans as well.  Not against.

On 4/27/2016 at 6:02 PM, sgtsabai said:

I've never been to Saigon, and to me it will always be Saigon. Spent my time up in I Corps on a lovely expense paid vacation courtesy Uncle Sam's Misguided Children. Been back in SE Asia for 15 yrs., never been back and I left nothing there I didn't want to leave. But I do luv the women. Quite a few around Udon, if you can find them.

The people in Saigon also call it Saigon.  It is only the Hanoi gov't that calls it HCMC.

On 4/25/2015 at 11:18 AM, siam2007 said:

BANTAYAN ( check wowbantayan.com )

very little tourism and the tourism that is there is low-profile, has been devastatetd by the Typhoon 2 years ago but recovered reasonably. Just make sure you can entertain yourself as it can get very boring with no nightlife whatsoever (the streets - or rather small lanes - are completely dark after 8 pm but unlike in cebu or manila, they are safe). The clearest water and the most beautiful deserted beaches of the PH.....

I was going to recommend Bantayan myself.  Gorgeous place! I've been to about 15 beaches or so in the Philippines, maybe a bit more.  

Bantayan was one of my favorites, that I'd like to return to - as well as the usual suspects - Boracay and Palawan (in case someone asks).

On 4/25/2015 at 7:16 AM, MrWorldwide said:

(FWIW, it didnt take long for me to realise I may as well have stayed in Oz as live on Penang, but others love the place - its all about finding the right fit)

3

Ah, I guess that means Penang was a bit sterile...I mean, I think that is what the 'may as well have stayed in Oz' reference means...?

On 4/24/2015 at 9:22 PM, questionsreplies said:

Hello,

Where to find in philippines an island where i can be almost alone on a 2 kms beach as on Koh Phangan during low season ?

And how much for a frontbeach bungalow ?

Thanxxxx

7000 islands in the Philippines.

Only a few like Boracay and Alona Beach (Bohol) are crowded with tourists and such.  The mass majority of Phils beaches are quite tourist free, or very limited...mostly the foreigners you see on most islands are solely there for the Diving.

That being said, the beaches are amazing, and it is quite common to be on a boat going to one island that you've read about in the Lonely Planet, only to bypass other gorgeously beautiful beaches, that have no Lonely Planet reference about whatsoever....

In other words, there are tons of them....tons and tons and tons.  Throw the Philippines map on the wall, throw a dart, and whatever island you hit, look it up in the Lonely Planet, and they'll tell you several white-sand beaches..and go there.

As an aside...renting bungalows is usually a tourist thing. Not that they don't have them, but looking for bungalows implies you are looking for a tourist beach with other foreigners on them, the type that would occupy bungalows on a beach.

On 3/22/2014 at 12:02 PM, rockdog said:

Recently spent a year in the PI... northern Luzon. Around Baguio is fine, nice mountain climate, cold in winter, a few typhoons, otherwise pleasantly hot,

People were congenial, like to socialise, party, sing a song. Property-rich, cash-poor for the most part.

Quality of life OK. Scenic roads up to the rice terraces or down across to beaches on the west coast in a day. Outside city centres it feels quite healthy. Laid-back lifestyle, the few westerners there seem content. For us Joes it's probably more 'comfortable' culturally than the rest of east Asia, similar to Malaysia in a way except church bells instead of muezzins..

Been a few times in Boracay, Cebu and such islands...good for a holiday. Angeles city just on the way to Clark airport, nightlife fairly low-key, a good laugh all round. Try a Red Horse beer before you leave Thailand and find out why the food doesn't need to be on a par with Thai or whatever...chicken, pork, potato 'adobo', usual noodles, rice, fish and veg dishes...plenty of devil sauce if it's too bland.

Definitely worth a visit as it's so near; you won't regret it...better to have seen it even if you come back, than not to have seen it at all.

I'm going back eventually, want to visit Mindanao and the southeast next time.

Happy trails.

I've spent a lot of time in the Phillippines.  Baguio is one I haven't been to in a long time, and I didn't do much when I was there - just walked around Sessions Road and such.  I really wish I would have gotten up into the hills and tourist areas - which is more what Baguio is good to see and do.

On 3/21/2014 at 9:34 PM, weegee said:

As I have stated before on a simular post to this one...

Filos invented Scams

Thais bettered it

Vietnamese perfected it.....

BUT

By far the Vietnamese women are much prettier than a Thai or Filo....

Good rule of thumb is the further you move away from the equator, the prettier the women.....

China is to die for, if your young and got sense enough to choose right.....

I've always felt the opposite.  I have no interest in Chinese at all.  The more I get into the Southeast Asia, the better it gets....anything south of China is great.  

On 3/21/2014 at 5:02 PM, slipperylobster said:

Incorrect. I know many who have married friends...and myself 30 years ago...and lived in the states. They all want to go back to PI..... with money of course.

same idea as the Isaan gal returning with the fat farang wallet and making her mark.

In the Philippines, it is very tribal... People in a Barrio are like a big family. It is the social interaction that is missing completely where I live in Udon, now. The Filipinos are all out in the streets mingling with neighbors, singing, drinking outside and kind of hanging out. Thai people stay indoors when at home. Filipinos stay outdoors....and group up. It is kind of festive. They organize into Barkadas (packs of close friends) and roam around... They miss that alot

If you ever really talk to a Filipina/Filipino in the USA ....they will seem happy, but you can see they miss their Barrio and Barkada of friends... and will get misty eyed.... You need to see how happy they are when they get back herE..

But, I find that Filipinas/Filipinos always create that same thing everywhere they go - in every country, everywhere.

You place a Filipina anywhere in the world, and shortly she'll have an entire horde of other Filipinas she feels obligated to (and wants to) spend as much time as possible with.

On 3/21/2014 at 2:00 PM, MrWorldwide said:

(Mods - this should have been a sticky years ago ..)

OP, this issue has been discussed at great length on several occasions in the SEA forum:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/forum/123-southeast-asia-forum/

It was also very popular when the British pound dropped to record lows a year or so back - not sure if *anyone* actually went anywhere other than the UK, but here's my two cents worth:

1. For every country in the region, most of us can list positives and negatives, but a single negative experience (particularly assault/robbery) in a given country really drags any further discussion of said country into a downward spiral. I'm not sure how many TVers have actually been robbed in KL, but those motorbike bandits must ride straight past me at 3am - God favors fools and drunks, apparently

2. If all you want is cheap beer and company, I'm not aware of a better option than Cambodia and the corruption reportedly makes it very easy to get a 12-month business visa. Personally, I want more than the above, and I just know that said corruption would come back to haunt me eventually. If you can find any two people who agree on S'ville or Siem Reap as viable alternatives to PP, please let me know - to date, those threads seem to go nowhere.

3. If this thread is accurate, you may have problems leaving the PI with a new girlfriend:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/711084-filipinos-required-proof-of-financial-capability-to-travel/

4. Anyone who considers Thailand a corrupt country may not enjoy life in neighbouring countries, With the exception of Singapore and possibly Brunei, I doubt that any of them are immune to this cancer - by the time you get to Indonesia, its simply the way things are done on a daily basis. I'm hoping I can play 'see no evil' in Malaysia - time will tell.

If all of the above sounds a bit academic, 35 days from now I climb on a plane out of Sydney and expect to be a resident of Penang just as soon as I settle a 12-month lease on a condo. Till then, soihok and one or two others here can give you more info on Malaysia - just be aware that the overall cost of living (particularly nightlife) is generally more expensive than Thailand. My only experience of Malaysia to date is as a tourist, but the only way to find out if it's for me is to get my feet wet - I suspect that you will eventually come to the same realisation. Good luck.

I hope to hear about how that is going for you..being that was 2014.  I'm interested in Penang myself...as well as Bangkok, KL, Malaka, Kuching, Phuket, Hanoi, Saigon, Danang, Bali, and a few other places. :)

I don't understand why this pro-Laos thread has to be a mutually bash-Thailand thread?  It's like saying Austria is great, and Germany sucks, or Canada is amazing, but the USA sucks.  They aren't ALL that different from each other.

Not to bash-Laos at all, but to balance the thread out a bit...it's not that exciting or interesting?  Laos is a sleepy little place...somewhat like being in a random small (but nice and boring) small town anywhere in Southeast Asia.  Sure, that's nice...but there are a lot of places like that.  Laos doesn't have a monopoly on boring, nice, and quiet.

On 8/11/2015 at 3:23 AM, Shaunduhpostman said:

Hello to all!

Yes I know, I have written a whole book here. I find the topic very interesting is all. I had a great time in Bali last year and I live in Thailand and have lived in Jakarta for a year recently as well. You could just skip my post, if the topic isn’t that intersting to you, I know this post is too long for most people, it is really over the top in length and hopefully it won't get me banned, sorry if I have gotten in your way scrolling down the page. Scroll on!

 

Also, sorry to lovers of Thai holiday destinations, I live in Thailand and have done so mostly for the last 16 years, yet I regret to say that I am frankly rather fed up with Thailand as a place to holiday, and I realize that perhaps it has as much to do with me as it does Thailand, but that is how it stands anyway at this point, that I don't like holidaying here though I once did. That said, I enjoy my life here as a foreign resident generally speaking, I am very lucky to have a supportive and very nice family whom I trust and enjoy being with. The fact that Thailand still affords a reasonably good quality of life for the money allows me much freedom I would not have elsewhere, so you can’t ask for much else. I am also sorry to say I am not going to compare Thailand as a holiday destination favorably to Bali here and I do that out of love and concern for Thailand and in hopes that they improve things a bit, an alcohol ban is making an Afghanistan out of the place and nobody likes to go there for a holiday. Even that aside Thailand was alreday clearly losing the race for my holiday buck and I am now much more than happy to spend it in Bali than anyplace here when I get the chance. Also I think much of what is not good for holiday makers ends up not being good for Thais and other residents. Also, tourism is a bit of a dead end for many countries and it has a lot of fallout for whatever benefits come from it, and all the people coming through Thailand have left their mark and unfortunately Thailand seems less and less able to cope well with some of it. Countries don’t get rich off of tourism, so you have to wonder why should they care that much anyway and it appears that Thailand doesn’t care about tourism, the industry may indeed only be truly important to the ruling establishment only as a kind of nice diplomatic facade that helps smooth over what is a rather medieval system at the core, one that John Kerry wouldn’t approve of, so it is perhaps needed so that we are spared some of his chastisements.

 

In the tourist areas in Thailand too often you are just made a mockery of by clerks, sellers and others you depend on for your holiday. Many of them just can’t be asked. Or at least I am just messsed with anyway. It's just painful and not a lot else. I don't have to go into it. I don’t feel it was always that way but it seems so now.

 

Bali, on the the other hand, the one time we went, last year, was a whole world of difference. I have spent a lot of time in Jakarta as a resident as well, and I feel Indonesians, generally speaking don't seem to have a problem with being present, reasonable and cognizant or doing their jobs in some simple capacity such as being a waiter or cashier or hotel desk clerk or cab driver, the very people holiday makers most often depend on to have a chance at having a good time. So everything pretty much follows very smoothly from there, that service empoyees are better. The people you will be dealing with are not only mostly more reasonable than in Thaiand, but by and large many are downright witty and articulate and enjoy interacting with others. It is not uncommon to happen into Balinese or Indonesians who seem to enjoy having met you. I don’t get the sense they are sucking up to me, like they want something else from me if they are being friendly which i get all too often here. They have the English skills as well. Indonesians seem to clearly have a much better education system and/or an overall better attitude towards learning. Thais by comparison seem to be in some kind of trance and not willing to come out of it. I am sorry to be that way, but how else can you describe your interactions or non-interactions with people in Bangkok, Pattaya, Ko Samui, Phuket etc? I feel I am not even respected as a human being half the time. If I am not super fit in designer wear, big nosy looking eyes magnified by conspicuous eyewear with a crass hair weave, I’m stuffed.

 

Bali has a lot to offer I think, perhaps more than Thailand. It is nothing that anyone has done in particular in many cases, it is just how things have worked out due to history, geology, geography, biology, ecology etc. I too avoided the hugely touristy areas in Bali, or at least Kuta anyway. I think that is also the large part of the reason Thai service staff are so unpleasant and uncooperative much of the time, Thais are burned out on tourists, and in some ways you can't blame them really, but Thailand doesn't really win my sympathy on that account, there is an element of chip on the shoulder with more and more people I encounter on my unfortunately necessary forays into Bangkok and other areas. There is the much lamented nationalism and racism to boot that is also a contributing factor I’m sure and it really is hard sell to appreciate any more or sympathize with Thailand’s obvious problems.

 

Though we didn’t go there, I assume that Kuta would be similarly unpleasant as Pattaya due to the hordes of tourists, so we decided to give it a miss and there's nothing much there that isn't elsewhere in Bali unless you want to be with lots of other tourists, mostly younger I have heard tell.

 

However, we stayed the first and last part of our two weeks fairly near to Kuta in Seminyak which is clearly very touristy, though I thought in an interesting and hip way and found the hotel staff where we stayed to be not only helpful but a downright blast. That never happens to me in Thailand. Maybe I'm just an <deleted> or something. But the hotel staff in Seminyak seemed genuinely interested in meeting people and enjoyed interacting with the guests. It was a cheap budget hotel to boot, so these were not people doing this to impress the hisos or keep a high paying job at a high end hotel or something. There was nothing in it for them. But whatever the case, I have never felt that the hotel staff liked me at all anywhere at any time at any hotel in Thailand. They politely endure your intrusions on their space, sometimes with a smile and sometimes do their jobs if they feel like it, but don’t push your luck. Polite, a bit helpful at times but distant, and that is all I ask for, but it usually isn't on, or not these days anyway.

 

My wife was really thrilled with the interesting shops with all manner of independent clothing designers showing their stuff. Some really interesting stuff I’ve never seen hide nor hair of in Thailand tourist areas. I thought the restaurants in Seminyak were fantastic. Some seriously creative quality cooking going on and at prices that will not wipe you out. Fat Gadjah is one amazing Asian fusion cooking restaurant that could not exist in Thailand, or not for peasants like me anyway. It would only be found in some hip area such as Thong Lor where you would be made to feel like you had shat in your pants, if as an old washed up farang you had the nerve to enter, “Oh! Too late, na! Old fat old pink man you not very chick! Could you please return to Patpong where you belong? Didn’t you know They have a free hamburger or hot dog there for you! And sexy lady too! Go on! Shoo! We don’t want your money, you will ruin our rep showing your face in here, please go now!”

 

There was a burger joint in Seminyak that was equally fantastic, gourmet burgers at reasonable prices and no pretension just kick ass quality burgers and fries to go and take down to the beach and eat. The fish in my fish burger was so fresh that it was half alive, just gorgeous sweet melt in your mouth white fish meat of some sort, not from a frozen patty, absolute dynamite.

 

Alcoholic drinks are not so good in Bali, or expensive due to taxation, worse than Thailand, but Guiness is available at a normal price and I'd rather have Guiness than Singha and certainly more than Beer Chang. There is also a German owned brewery in Bali that does damn nice wheat and wheat dunkel that is not impossible to find in shops and restaurants in Indonesia and Bali. Also, not expensive, but it is difficult to find their beers in Bali which seems odd because they’re based in Lovina somewhere. I had better luck finding their beer in Jakarta where I first encountered the Bali wheat beers. I don't care for Indonesia's Bintang too much, but it is as drinkable as Beer Singha and about 25% cheaper. It has an OK faint bitter hoppy zing for a factory lager, but at the end of the day is what it is, there’s no further kidding around about it to be done. Wine is outrageously taxed, so as much as I like wine, it isn't on in Indonesia, just ridiculous, forget it or you'll be broke fast.

 

The beach at Seminyak is leagues beyond any urban beach in Thailand, fresh breeze constantly blowing, seemingly happier locals playing beach football, partying cheerfully, etc. not a feeling of malice from some people as I sometimes get at the main Pattaya beach, whether it is people sizing you up wondering if they can hustle you for something, the hopped up jet ski hooligains, or some western yobbohs maybe giving you a spin just to vent, or what have you. Going to the beach at Seminyak, it is crowded, but ebullient, you come away refreshed by the breeze the waves the width and expanse of the beach a full 100 yards wide and probably almost certainly more. There is all sorts of interesting seawrack on the shore, colorful shells, water erosion worn pieces of coral, I found an old chinese coin that looked like it had been underwater for decades. Good body surfing in the decent to monstorous sized waves which i enjoy. Dangerous rip tide areas clearly marked with flags. One major downside is that there was raw sewage run off going straight from big hotels to the beach and into the sea. You could smell what it was. However we found a pretty long stretch where there was none of that and it seemed much cleaner otherwise than any Thai beach I have been to. I come off the beach in Thailand feeling hot, like someone has dumped a sticky hot can of coke on my head and I am burned out and dying to get back to the room. Granted, that is simply a consequnce of Thailand beaches being on a large gulf and not open ocean as is the south facing coast of Bali. But sorry it just isn’t my thing, Thai beaches. It would be more refreshing to soak in a luke warm tub of my own crud with Thelonius Monk on the box and nice glass of sticky ruby red black brown Weihenstphaner Korbinian, my go to double bock, available in supermarkets everywhere in Bangkok and Pattaya. And I give Thailand that, beer and wine availability is some of the best in Asia and that is important to many a holidayer, but seems they are trying to put an end to as well with new alcohol bans.

 

Ubud, our next destination after Seminyak has a mind blowing array of art and temples and also excellent places to stay and eat. Blows Chiang Mai out of the water, imho. The mytho-religious practices seem to still be intact and the performance aspect has always been a part of the authentic culture, so tourists coming to gawk is not much different than locals coming to gawk at the gods decending into the bodies of performers. There is nothing clap trap or tourist trappy about any of it. Maybe I am fooled but as a tourist that is all I ask, I suppose. Ladies firing darts out of their pussies at the Pat Pong ping pong show, ok, you wonder hmmm…maybe some traditional excersise that enables them to do that. Whoa! But my father tells me, no, they were doing that at strip clubs in San Francisco back in the 40’s, perhaps brought over to the bay from Hong Kong. And a bit of a one dimesional gag and nothing else even if in fact it twas developed here and taken to Hong Kong. The kecak fire dances put you right into contact with something mysterious as the performers romp barefooted in fire and hot coals in a possien state, or so they tell you, and come away unscathed. Even if that is bs, the live Balinese gamelan and dance is virtuoso stuff and more than makes up for that, the likes of which died out in Thailand decades ago, if it wasn't outright quashed by someone who didn't happen to like it. The whole expat painters in the 20th century phenomena is fascinating and the influence they had on Balinese painters produced something that was just amazing. It is like jazz in New Orleans, an example of people meeting up from around the world and producing something truly new together. It is a shame I was born too late to have been there for it all. There is still a ton of the world class painting done at that time on display at well maintained even gorgeous museums in Ubud. There are well written explanations and displays that explain the whole scene and the mythology and other subjects in the paintings as well as good pamplets at the museums giving bio details on the Balinese, Dutch, Mexican even Russian masters who together made a new kind of Balinese art. I am sorry, Thailand has a history of snubbing the whole rest of the world, nobody is going to be open to foreign artists here, or only on the sly, appropriated, pastiched but not taken in and developed as something new. It is very winning to see that at least at one time the Balinese were that open that they began participating in western style painting and truly making it their own. It is enthralling what happened in Bali during the 30’s until th 70’s. I was converted to being a big fan of Balinese painting during my stay. Another good thing was having such beautiful museums to myself. Totally deserted. I guess everyone gets their daily imagery nutritional requirements with the internet these days. The lack of interest doesn't bode well for the future of the museums tho, really sad.

 

If you like underwater life as I do, Bali has stellar scuba and snorkelling at such places as Nusa Penida, Menjangan Island, and Amed. Nowhere in Thailand comes close, Ko Tao is a despoiled wasteland compared to those places with a dying underwater ecology. Ko Surin and the Sembilans are relatively difficult and expensive to access and not as good anyway osso it seems from all the photos on flickr. Menjangan and the nearby mainland fringing reef at Permuteran are teeming with coral and fish species and very easy access. You can stay right there on the beach in Permuteran on Bali's extreme northwest corner, in excellent Bungalows for 900 baht a night with an amazing snorkel or scuba dive right at your doorstep. Great seafood, Indonesian, Italian etc available in cafes in the area. At Permuteran they are actively working to restore the coral reef and you can snorkel out 50 yards and see the results which are hundreds of coral species and probably a thousand kinds of fish. Jet skis? They don't want no stinkin jet skis and banana boats in Permuteran! As several locals remarked to me, this is Indonesia's natural fish aquarium, we don’t want that here! Menjangan island off the coast is mind blowing. I have never seen better coral or underwater life ever. Thailand's sea life is depleted by comparison. We didn't go to Amed or Nusa Lembongan/Penida , but I have read that there is a whole other marine environment that is equally vibrant at these places on Bali. The diving tour people who took the group out to Menjangan, all Balinese guys, were also a blast. They had real a passion and interest in what they were doing. I sat and talked marine life with them for a whole hour in their shop and when we went out the next day they knew I was as keen as they were and they were pointing all kinds of stuff out to me explaining stuff. It's like there's a law against that kind of thing in Thailand, you're not allowed to be interested in anything or care. Explaining or telling anyone anything is like giving up state secrets. It is heartbreaking sometimes how little joy anyone takes in knowing anything or taking any interest in their world in Thailand. But the snorkelling day tour cost was very reasonable and going to Menjangan is a must for anyone with interest in marine life. Clearly the ocean in Bali hasn’t been totally FUBAR’d by the fishing industry and a tourist industry that cares little about the environment. Not that Indonesia gets off the hook either on that account, but at least in Bali, from what I saw, mostly so far so good, some obvious appreciation and awareness of the importance of trying perserve the sea environment in Permuteran.

 

When we wanted to leave Seminyak for Ubud, I decided to ask the cab drivers hanging around outside the hotel what they wanted for the trip. I would never ask cab drivers hanging around outside a hotel in Thailand to take me anywhere, let alone even start talking to them. That is asking to be ripped off or even asking for trouble or at best they will just diddle you with some misinformation or simply not be bothered to understand anything you've said in Thai or English and blow you off. But we had spent 3 days in Seminyak and everytime we stepped out I took in the whole cab driver scene getting a good rough reading on them and then had a few conversations with some of them and after a few days felt assured and comfortable that they were genuinely cool guys and probably good for a trauma free ride of a few hours to Ubud. So when it came time to go, I had little trepidation and we struck a deal for a ride to Ubud. The guy was very well spoken in English and once we shoved off and were on our way he said, "If you want we can stop at many places along the way, there's a lot of interesting shops and so on.Just let me know what you want to see or do, I don't mind I am not too busy today." My wife and I both love batik and he gladly took us to some excellent places on the road from Seminyak to Ubud. As we passed through each hamlet he mentioned what there was to see and take a stop if we wanted. This place was good for stone work, that place was good for jewellery, this place had a nice place for a good cup of coffee etc. The guy knew the whole area like the back of his hand. One batik place was just massive, jaw dropping array of stuff at all prices and quality levels. I had to have two shirts and my wife got some stuff as well, very reasonably priced and good stuff that I still love wearing a year later. The driver had lots of information and tips and seemingly just given because he was interested and enjoyed sharing his knowledge, it was not a big deal to him. I'm sure it made his job all the more pleasant and interesting for him. When we stopped he would make some quick offerings to the local gods and my wife and I asked him about it and he was very open about it and explained more than I thought he should, as perhaps maybe somethings should be left unsaid in those matters, but that is perhaps just my particular hangup. He was quite into spirituality and curious about Thai traditions and so on and asked us about Thai Buddhism as he was intersted in Buddhism though born and raised a Hindu and continuing that way. We had a great conversation with him about Buddhism, Balinese spirituality meditation etc, unbelieveable coming from a cab driver, but when we came back another cab driver knowing that we were from Thailand also began asking us about Buddhism and he too was a very keen meditator had read a lot also and had a lot to say on the topics as we took a long ride from Seminyak to Legian to check out the beach and the scene there. I'm sorry but that just isn't going to happen with your random taxi driver off the street in Thailand.

 

Just based on one trip to Bali, it seems a clearly better place to go, for me and my interests anyway (food, mythology, spirituality, the sea, art, music and talking with others). Maybe I am just burned out and bitter regarding Thailand, but I still love it here as my home, I just fail to see the tourist destinations as having anything to offer any more at this point, unless you've never been here before. Bali has a depth and wealth that is just phenomenal. It just isn't here to that extent that it is in Bali. Thailand is a top destination in Asia, a must for any travel nut, make no mistake, but I think there are many reasons it is not a place to go back to once you’ve been. And I am sorry to say the people just don’t like you except for your money as many of us well know. But it makes for a one-dimensional country as far as tourism goes. It isn’t just about this thing or that thing in the country it is as much about who you meet and if we are just meat to those we meet then you can just go have your meeting with yourselves and be irrelevant and meet yourselves we’ll be going to Bulgaria next summer, Prudence and Persnipyoola and the gang, hmmph!

 

From some of the things in the news, seems there are some of the same problems in Bali as Thailand. Indonesia is horrendously corrupt, it is actually probably much worse than Thailand. You can also easily get sick and die in Jakarta from cholera for example. It happened to ex-pats I worked with and Jakartans all have their stories of getting appallingly sick multiple times from airborne sewage everywhere not to mention waterborn sewage when the whole city gets hoplessly flooded, beyond anything Bangkok has ever seen. It is absolute mess of a city dragging 20 million people down the drain along with it. The government charges extortionate levels of income tax yet many neighborhoods in Jakarta are criss crossed with busted up pavement. The rivers are literally choked with poo and rotting garbage, you can’t even see the water it appears to in fact not even be a body of water but to a long narrow garbage dump, but indeed it is a river. Your skin will begin to burn and itch being 200 yards away from it. It is real 3rd world nightmare stuff, yet the rich I believe put the Thai elites in the dust, they are far wealthier with a much larger counrty to exploit, but it is the same Sino tribes that control Thailand so it only goes to show you how bad things may get as far as the country being sucked dry by the elites. How it has to do with Bali is that I was skeptical that things were as paradisal as it seemed as the Javanese seem to have a real presence in Bali and of course those running Jakarta run the whole country, so you wonder if indeed the place isn’t more polluted than it seems to the average passerby like myself.

 

Bali is much cleaner than Jakarta but I doubt medical personel are any more competent or less mercenary. Jakartans never stopped warning me of the horrors that await you should have to see a doctor in Indonesia and they never stopped warning me about police. Scary stories abound. Jokes also abound but as not so veiled warnings to all. Thais cops are pussy cats by comparison. You don't EVEN want to get stopped by a cop in Indo. You could easily disappear to enormous manifold of chaos that only the likes of a master of the logically absurd such as a Borges could dream up. Who would know who would care where you went? A kind of Austro-Hungarian broken monstrosity of a system. The one time cops started walking my direction one day when I was out shopping in Jakarta, I pretended to have forgotten something, slapped my forehead and ran in the opposite direction, back into the shopping mall. My Jakartan collleagues would laugh and say that was a good move, you probably were about to get hauled in on some made up nonesense charge! From living in and working in Jakarta you run into just stunning levels of mass level coordinated incompetence and corruption, levels of which Thailand could never reach simply because there aren't enough people. Jakarta is beyond the pale, there is some seriously shocking stuff there. It’s the hub of a weird empire few know or care anythng about beyond Indonesia. But on a one to one or work level I find it so much easier to deal with Indonesians generally speaking and feel they understand friendship, value others, and understand that cooperating with others often saves everyone a lot of trouble and headache. In Thailand most people don’t seem to care about themselves let alone you. Perhaps it is all Indonesians have are their friends and family and those around them, that and a cultural diversity that doesn't allow them to be so narrow and nationalistic. They have to take interest in you to figure out the code, what’s going to work and not work perhaps. Bali seemed a world apart but the Balinese seem to have no problem stepping back and forth between their world and those of the Javanese and other outsiders with a strong presence. I don’t see that level of resiliency, flexibility or confidence in Thailand. And it makes them not nearly as fit to be good or even decent hosts to tourism. It all seems to just devolve into what you will pay them and then please move along the airport is over there. That’s all most Thais seem to feel comfortable with. Perhaps I would see it differently if I lived in Indonesia or Bali for a longer time and I realize i have superficial grasp of Bali and Indonesia if any at all. But Thailand is maybe what VS Naipaul would call another wounded civilization, wounded by Chinese colonialism and/or western pressure over the centuries. I don’t know. But Thailand is fast becoming the sick man of ASEAN with no will to get it together and as such is too ill to offer much of anything to holidaymakers anymore.

 

There you have it, just my opinion on a very interesting question I hope I am wrong about the bad things I think I have noticed, but that is how it seems these days. I was planning to go to Bali again this year, but it isn’t going to happen, we have to take care of people in the family who are sick with cancer likely from agricultural chemicals and far too young, younger than the wife and I. I hope she recovers, looks like she will but who knows, I don’t trust doctors here at all, they have dithered for years with her and now that she has cancer they start doing something or so it seems and maybe next year we can go to Bali worry free. My favorite spot in the world to go for a vacation!

The catch is that...it seems to me...anyways.  You enjoyed being a TOURIST in Bali.  You were having fun tourist experience.

All the negatives you quoted of Thailand, are not negatives to tourists.  Tourists see the same things in Thailand, that you were seeing in Bali.

That being said, I enjoyed the long insight post, as there were a ton of interesting nuggets of gold and perception throughout.  Much appreciation.

On 12/2/2016 at 5:49 PM, Mansell said:

I arrived in Nha Trang by train 12 hours from DaNang in the dark. Walked out onto beach to stretch the legs and immediately was accosted by hookers and declined their services. Then took a walk along the beach front and was accosted by male hookers. Annoying. Upside was the beautiful resort hotel. While having dinner outside by the pool a lovely troupe of Vietnamese dancers and musicians proceeded to entertain us. Very professional and very enjoyable. I think they moved from resort to resort. There wasn't any charge, and the resort with breakfast ran around $25 a day. I didn't find Nha Trang a very authentic Vietnamese experience. I preferred Hue, but of course there isn't a beach there. But I found Vietnam and the people delightful.

Wow! I was only in Nha Trang once, in 2000.  I thought it was interesting, but I specifically remember going between two beach bars at night, and some drug-addicted V-Chick grabbed me in the dark, and scared the living crap out of me.  The next day, I walked around the city, and counted 4-5 needles in the sands....damn, I was thinking.  But since that was 17 years ago, I have been thinking i need to get back to Nha Trang.  Sounds like it still has the same negative trappings that I didn't care so much for the first time.

As to this thread, I've also been to Langkawi (maybe 2011?).  It was too sterile in feel.  Sure, it had everything.  But it was around December, and tons of the full-garbed muslim men and muslim women everywhere on the beaches....which is something that annoys me - as I really do believe ONLY swimwear should be worn at the beach, even if they aren't swimming.  Langkawi was a bit sterile and boring for me.  Which was quite a contrast from KOH LIPE just north on the Thailand side, which was super laidback and comfortable.

On 1/4/2017 at 11:53 PM, TheGhostWithin said:

 

The Police were never spoken to on my part, I left Malaysia after visiting there each year 3 years consecutively, and never returned. I had some friends in Penang that were being extorted by the Police so my opinion of Malaysian Police was relatively low at the time. Sad, I had begun learning to read and write Bahasa, and had a big interest in trying to understand what being "Malaysian" meant, however my interest rapidly evaporated after that event. Not because I blamed ALL Malaysians for the event, but because I understood I could never be part of a society that bred and accepted acts against someone because of the color of their skin.

 

My Malaysian friends occasionally meet with me when I am in Thailand now, and my Kiwi friends have mostly all heard of my Malaysian experience.

Hmm...one of the appealing to me about Malaysia, was the Chinese-Malays and Indian-Malays.  They can quickly and easily relate to western foreigners...and easy to be friends with.  You can both criticize the political situation, etc, without offending them as locals, at all.  They relate to everything.

I don't think there is another country in Asia than you can chat around and criticize things you don't like with a local, than Malaysia.  Mostly because of that very thing.

On 1/4/2017 at 7:45 PM, ThaiWai said:

Southern Thailand is enough Muslim for me.  I wouldn't stay in Malaysia if they gave me a free house.  Was in Penang last week and couldn't wait to get back.  Kuala Lumpur is even worse.

What didn't you like about Penang?

Culturally, its much more Chinese than Muslim. Plus you have a minority 10% Indian population which makes it more interesting.  I was in Penang about a year ago, and I had a Malay Muslim cab driver, he was telling me how everyday the Penang Island gets more and more Chinese (from the Mainland) everyday. They are buying up entire apartment blocs left and right....

On 1/4/2017 at 1:07 PM, stuurman said:

Hi I lived for 6 years in Penang, Malaysia with a Malaysia My Second Home visa before I moved to Chiang Mai. The visa is pretty straight forward and once you have it no more reporting at immigration.

We lived in condo's and had two cats without much of a problem. It's easy to buy property and not so difficult to resell it, we did both. 

But to be honest apart from the better visa situation there isn't much else I can think of that stands out in Malaysia when comparing Chiang Mai and Penang. 

 

Can you elaborate on that?

I'm going down to Penang again soon to spend about 8-9 days to get a better feel to the city.  Overall, I like it, and the visa is a big attraction.  I also liked that English was so prevalent, and I like the multiculturalism a lot too.

That being said, like everyone else here, I like Thailand too.

On 10/27/2014 at 1:03 PM, spidermike007 said:

You are probably very accurate about the Vietnamese women liking sex more than the Thais. Very, very few women I have encountered here really like sex. Very few. They perform sex since it helps them to achieve their objectives, but only a small percent genuinely love it, and finish, finish, is that enough, are you ok, is something you have to get used to hearing. Of course there are exceptions. But, in ever heard this in the Philippines, and rarely in Cambodia. One hears this kind of nonsense, that leads you to believe most Thai women are not really sexual animals, quite often.

I don't think I've ever heard of Vietnamese as sex fiends either.  I think most Buddhist countries, sex is more of a functional thing.  I'm not saying I don't think Vietnamese or Thai don't like sex, that hasn't been my personal experience.

But, in general, if you want horny girls, go to the Philippines or Indonesia.  That's the general rule.  Never heard of someone going to Vietnamese for horny women.  Usually people go to Vietnam because the women are a bit more refined, more educated, and/or more attractive.  Not because they are horny.

On 5/10/2014 at 10:26 AM, spidermike007 said:

actually, I consider the Chinese to be far friendlier, smarter, more industrious, easier to be around, and in general absolutely delightful, when compared to their Vietnamese counterparts. I wish I had overrun the border, instead of being subjected to that "Vietnam attitude" for all those weeks. So, no, unfortunately I was in Vietnam. The best part, is I am able to say I will not be returning in this lifetime, if I can help it.

The Chinese???????? What?  

Never heard of the Chinese being friendlier, easier to be around, delightful, or anything like that....not dissing the Chinese.  But they are fairly rude and aggressive in almost all situations.  Particularly from the Mainland, which I"m assuming you are referencing.

Unless you are saying that the Vietnamese are significantly worse?  Neither are known as delightful, but I have heard Vietnamese laugh a lot more, and just be more enjoyable to be around, myself.

On 5/8/2014 at 5:23 PM, Absolut said:

Just some advice, a Viet nstional is not allowed to stay in a hotel room with a foreigner unless they are married.

Lower star hotels may overlook this law but higher star places will more than likely enforce it.

Don't expect to be able to have any gitl back to your hotel room when you firdt get there.

Personally I've found girls in Vietnam a little more reserved than Thailand but still very lovely girls to date.

This is interesting, as its the opposite with Malay girls in Malaysia.  

You can't take them to a low star hotel, as you'd be reported.  But if you are with them in a high star hotel, apparently they look the other way in Malaysia, (if with a Malay girl).  - which is also illegal.

On 5/8/2014 at 3:39 PM, marios said:

In my country the maids are mostly from the far east and South Asia. Now the most dangerous, scheming, and untrustworthy are , from what I hear, the Vietnamese. They are capable workers, demanding their rights and generally are a force to reckon with.The other nationalities of the maids are mostly Filipino and Srilankan. They are very subdued compared to Vietnamese.

So, in my mind, the Vietnamese girl will try to extract the pound of flesh from a boyfriend if she can. Her approach to their employers is how to benefit from any arising situation. This is not the case in such an extend with the other nationalities

This is my sincere opinion. I agree with Spidermike that they maybe not a happy lot. Of course, if you go back 20 years and beyond, one remembers that none of the residents of any communist country in Europe were a happy lot. So maybe their attitudes stem from the lack of freedom and the environment of suspicion they are engulfed by.

If that's true, that's not a bad thing.

If I were married to a Vietnamese woman, and she was adamant about her rights as a human being, that's not a bad thing.  It's much more annoying when you are with a woman who has no clue that she has basic rights as a human being, and allows herself to be ripped off and taken advantage of left and right, as that effects you as well.

On 7/13/2017 at 8:12 PM, Thingamabob said:

Most male farangs in Thailand dress sloppily and talk loudly, a disastrous combination as far as Thais are concerned. Never used to be like this. Cheap flights to blame.

When wasn't there a time it was like that?

I don't think westerners have dressed nicely since....the 1950s, maybe?

I've been in and out of Thailand since the 1990s...and westerners have always dressed poorly, and I'm assuming it was the same even back in the 1970s and 1980s.  Maybe only the U.S. military taking R&R from Vietnam, could have been the only time they would not have dressed sloppily, but I would imagine the loudness would have been still there.

On 6/27/2016 at 7:21 AM, balo said:

In Thailand I can walk alone at night most places, I would never dare to do the same in Phills alone without locals with me.

As a person who has spent a lot more time in the Philippines (maybe 15-20 trips) compared to Thailand (5 trips).

That's one of the big shockers for me every time in Thailand.  I am just comfortable absolutely everywhere in Thailand.  The Philippines brings out your super-spidey senses all the time.  I never had any issues in the Philippines, but you can just feel the need to watch your surroundings at all times.  (Actually I've never had any trouble, I should say, I have had tons of the uncomfortable stuff though - i.e. incidents of people following, or having to shake someone, etc.)

On 2/15/2016 at 7:10 PM, balo said:

What about the food , can you have a decent western meal in Manila ? And priced under 300 baht ?

Yes, you can.  I pretty much only ate 'other' food in the Philippines.  Well, I like Korean and Vietnamese cuisine a lot, and I could always find it.  I also liked that the Philippines has a ton of American fastfood - i.e. Taco Bell, Wendy's, Sbarros, etc.

On 1/12/2016 at 12:48 AM, LC 100 said:

Seems the Pinay girls mostly can't get out of the PI fast enough, given the chance - especially if they have kids already. They want something better for their kids.

 

Thai girls on the whole though seem less keen to repatriate to a foreign country. Some do, but of the 4 that I know that attempted it, 3 were bitterly miserable and came back to Thailand again.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, agree with that, Thai's don't seem to travel as well as the Filipinas...

 

I do wonder if that is a reflection on how enjoyable it is to live in each country.  Filipinos KNOW there are much better places out there, and compared to the Philippines, it's true.  Thailand, I'd prefer it to most places myself.

That being said, The Philippines does have a lot of great places, but they are better for visiting and tourists, rather than living.  I.E. the islands are amazing!  But, I can't stay on an island more than a few days without feeling bored out of my mind. I need to live in a city, and few Philippines cities are walkable - due to the riffraff and stresses of the people you might encounter, when you are walking up and down the streets.  The Philippines makes a person search out malls, which is the last place I'd want to be, in any other country.