The white Rider

1 hour ago, poanoi said:

as long as you have a good time, arent jealous or fear STD,

there is no reason for you to call it quits IMO

A part of me is claiming to remove the drama, live and let live... but I still feel confused about what I want now...
STD... I always used protection but... STD in Thailand hookers shouldn't be taken as a joke, right?

On 23/4/2018 at 3:51 AM, Stokakrishna said:

There are plenty of fish in the sea.

 Why hang to one which is <deleted> by all other fish?

 

 Are you so fugly you cannot get another girl? Or so poor that need a hooker with money to make you happy?

 

You're right, of course I can have another one... but this Thai left her mark, even being a hooker...

I don't fall for a girl that easily, I've spent years divorced from infatuation... and yet, it happened now... I was not protected against the Thai fever...

Yep, I admit it... It's hard for me to acknowledge how lust must have ruled so far...

On the other hand I'm a man who always tries to be hopeful... unless I get the "empiric evidence"... But know it's 100% crystal clear... and the right thing to do is tell her as soon as possible...

OMG... I cannot dodge the last questions in my previous post, though... I even started reading this post:

Sorry for my dumb comments... I just can't help it, I'm trying to justify things...
"I know she supports her family and the bank paycheck is not enough, she has her reasons to do it, she always treated me well when we spent time together, she even spent money on me..."

Guys, I'm dealing with my emotional rollercoaster, my mind still struggles to fit all this...

Yep, it's obvious I have a long way to go now... I'm blinded by the thai fever...

(I read the book, BTW... a must have, thank you @Khunper, indeed)

Hi again, friends

I didn't want to flood this thread too much after all the feedback gotten (again, thanks a lot indeed) so I've been waiting a bit to update it. Nonetheless, some crucial facts have been going on during the last week so here we go again...

Though the final part is the MAIN ONE, I wanna summarize some "highlights" within these 3 months. I may look like I've lost my head completely at some points but, anyway, as i did in my OP, I want to take the chance to share my experiences that may help future readers in similar situations:

 

- We had a really bizarre episode going on in february: one day, she sent me some pics that explicitly revealed she was "having fun" with another western during that weekend. In reality, there was nothing new for me, just the explicit gesture... I didn't need to know about it in such a blunt way and I felt hurted this time...
That led to several days without talking and I was decided to quit. But days went by and she started texting again claiming she was testing me because she couldn't understand my lack of jealousy if I had true feelings for her... (though that didn't changed the "good times" she spent with the farang).

Eventually, things got back to normal again... (yep, hard to believe, I know...)

- A couple of weeks later, she applied for her passport in order to have a trip to Spain on summer. She got it right away. No questions, no requests about money, flights, Visa expenses... no expectations about me paying anything...

- I had a lightning trip to Samui one week ago. I wanted to see her again in her own environment before making any move about her trip to Spain. Again, we had a great time together, awesome sex, I met a couple of workmates and friends, she paid for most of my expenses and cried when I left ((though I shouldn't omit the fact that she refused to stay with me in her place, alleging she didn't want her neighbours to gossip)

- Two days ago, by chance, due to several facts and elements, I just found it out...
  SHE IS A PART TIME HOOKER. 100% CONFIRMED.

 

(Yes, I know most of the feedback in this thread was ringing the bell and of course, I never discarded this possibility)

But I'm still shocked about the bunch of little coincidences that made it possible for me to know it 100%...
Looked like a puzzle... Had I missed one single piece and I'd still be at the same point I was 3 months ago (suspicions but no physical evidences).

It may sound insane but... I didn't let her know yet about this... I'm acting as nothing happened (not that easy right now but still possible...) It's like a part of me wants to keep a cool head about it until some days go by... somehow I need to re-write the whole story in my mind and approach it from a different angle before making a choice...

Dump her from the root... VS ...Keep her for fun...

Can't help to consider the second one...

Why didn't she ever ask me for money? Is she playing the "long game?
Why do I look like "number 1" if she needs the money and I'm not paying when there are lots of men willing to pay?
Why didn't she push me on the background yet? and prioritize another guy?

 

18 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Cashier?

I've met plenty of them.

(Sorry)

Why sorry?  Any interesting experience/conclusion about cashiers? 

On 02/02/2018 at 8:01 AM, theguyfromanotherforum said:

What is her job at the bank exactly?

 

None of my wife's friends who have serious jobs find the time to party even once every 6 months.

 

Even my much younger unemployed ex didn't party 3 times a week and she was wild.

 

 

She works exchanging cash in a bank counter. Foreign remmittance office.

On 02/02/2018 at 4:24 AM, todlad said:

Sorry but I was born and brought up in a place where being blunt is normal. It helps sometimes since it is clear where we stand. I never intend to cause offence and have been known to apologise if I have.

 

By the way, there are many of us on TV who have done what you are talking about but with one big difference. Yes, I know I took a risk doing what I did but I did not fall for the first girl I met and I did not consider moving in with her, even for a trial period after only a very brief period together. In the end, my first real prospect here turned out to be a chancer: I don't know how many men took refuge with her but I withheld my trust for the best part of three years as I worked away and came here frequently until I thought I knew everything. At the 11th hour I learned about Michael ... and Lewis and others. A bit like your friend Jim!

 

You seem to have said what I kept saying to this woman: only you and only me. But when I learned that I was the date on Monday, Wednesday and Friday and "spending time with her mother" on Tuesday, Thursday and the weekend turned out to be boning sessions with Michael, I left her immediately. No questions asked. No other chances.

 

I recommend you do the same: 1 to 3 months with this one could be heavenly but trusting her is a fantasy from my experience.

 

I think this is the thread you are looking for and you will see there are many replies with lots of first rate advice: 

 

 

There was no offence at all, mate thank you so much for the link and that shared experience, that's valuable stuff indeed

On 02/02/2018 at 7:28 AM, zaZa9 said:

If Im not mistaken , you would be getting them to.

Do you point them out to her ?

 

Perhaps , having been 'black' all her life , and being a black Thai means being ignored at best , she is very needy when it comes to attention?

Attention is like a drug to her now?

If so this could abet  'butterfly' behaviour.

 

Whatever , that stuff   would get up my nose very quickly ...

You might be right indeed. She is kind of needy about attention, yep... I don't get upset about that behaviour because my jealousy is really low so I just say "oh, good, khun suay mak" and change topic right away as she's kind of teasing me. Whenever I talk about any girl (past or present) she usually gets jealous... and I think that contrast sometimes even makes her confused...

12 hours ago, todlad said:

We had a very similar love story not too long ago and we see the same pattern. European who seems to be doing ok for himself meets a Thai girl who easily falls in lust. Forget Jim, this Spaniard is besotted with lust and she plays on his mind daily. She teases. She displays herself in the ways we can find in Pattaya, Phuket and like places.

 

After two weeks or so of physical contact, the Spaniard thinks about moving to Samui.

 

Let me ask what others are asking too: are you mental? You found a whole cupboard full of red flags but bingo, ignored them all.

 

Your statements about reading all about Thai girls, about how you can't be fooled and about Facebook pages are all water. Drip drip drip.

 

Senorita sounds a much safer bet to me.

Can't deny that your post sounds pretty blunt and I appreciate that honest feedback. Is there any link to that similar love story? If so, would be helpful for me to be posted here.

This said, real experiences from others (that lived something similar) are the most valuable to me. And (if at all) moving to Samui for 1-3 months (since that's what I'm allowed via tourist VISA) to try out, is not a "real-risk decision" in my case. Of course, that's a personal fact...

5 minutes ago, retiredusn said:

Where does she find the time too work??

She has a "very relaxed" job, man, they work in couples attending customers. She may be taking passports and money and still, she doesn't hang up a call. Other times it's just idle time... since there are no customers.

4 hours ago, zaZa9 said:

How does she achieve that with a full time job?

Most employees here have to commit to 10 hour days , 60 hours a week.

 

Any guy coming over here and being met by a Thai lady at any time on any date should ask the same question.

I do , however disagree that somebody gainfully employed in foreign exchange would get 10k a month. The real figure is double that with bonuses etc.

But those sort of jobs also require strong commitment - Im not sure somebody who parties 3 or 4 nights a week till late , and takes time off randomly , can hold down a job with a bank.

If thats the case , where is her money coming from ?

Her working day is mostly 8h, either morning or afternoon, sometimes both (16h). As far as I know, she usually takes one day off, sometimes 2 after 4-5 working days. We have a lot of videocalls when she's in the office, there's no doubt about her job. I said she parties 2-3 times a week because when she is working in the afternoon she oftenly goes out the previous night since she doesn't need to wake up early in the morning.

Holidays... She has /at least) 8 per year. She may use 2days off+4holiday in a row+2days off. That's what she've been doing so far when we meet.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong...

7 hours ago, Hupaponics said:

Very likely indeed. However, it's pretty easy to find out her other accounts. 

 

Go to gf's frend list on FB, find her roommate. Now check roommate's friend list. 

All accounts should be listed there;). If not, go another friends frend list. 

 

I have done this myself with interesting results 555

Good advice! I've already done it before.
I've come to believe that she hasn't any adittional FB account, I did a quite deep search some weeks ago, before booking my second flight. 

- I searched her name (using both alphabets)
- I searched her nickname (both alphabets again)
- I combined name and nickname.
- I checked likes in posts and pics.
- I checked several friends friend lists (friends I know she usually hangs out with)

Nothing was found. Her friends have only her main account, the one I know... 
 

57 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

A girl who works in a bank got a structured life earning around 15-25 Thousand Baht, depends where and what. There are no way 2 or 3 days off. And normally she would have to support her parents and.....live with the parents....or share a room with another girl in BKK. No way to spend money for flights aso.

So I suspect her to be a free lancer indeed but in a horizontal job.

Thanks! as far as I know: when she works 4 days in a row (sometimes all day long) then she can take 2 days off in a row (not 3, you're right). 

Her family lives 5h from Samui. And she shares a condo, she's not living alone.

8 hours ago, tonray said:

Yeah... 99% of all Thai girls use LINE  not whatsapp. Maybe a clue

Yep, I already knew this and included it in my first post. Don't get me wrong, of course I know what's going on while we're apart. She loves attention and she's into farangs whenever she parties... even she might be a part time hooker, as many of you already stated.

Correct me if I'm that wrong... It just looks like I'm #1 to her (needless to say I also mean there is a queue in which I lose my place when I'm away)

She has posts on FB in my language (I miss you, I'm so happy with you...), whatsapp profile posts... It's pretty obvious stuff for any other farang wanting to know her better... and that's her losing the oportunnity of someone else taking her seriously (even being easy to get her in the sack...)

My question is:

Would it be any different if we got to remove the distance issue?" It's difficult for me to omit the fact that she really looks like emotionally involved when I'm in LOS and, as I said, she cries a river when I'm leaving...

8 hours ago, Berkshire said:

This woman is the classic farang-hunter who dates westerners both as an occupation and for sport.  The OP is the classic mark because he doesn't live in Thailand...which allows her to indulge her craft without supervision.  Sounds like she can speak some English, which gives her access to foreigners.  And she loves the attention given by farangs as she has probably never been considered attractive by the local Thais because of her dark skin.  

 

My advice: Enjoy it while you can and don't fall in love.  Because she will keep dating other guys and lie about it.  And I'm sorry, but doubtful she loves you.

I agree 90% with you... in fact, she's always complaining about her dark skin and "praising" my white skin...

But anyway... if she doesn't love me... why was she crying a river whenever I was leaving? Is it so easy to fake tears?
This would be a good discussion too, guys. What do you think?

40 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Given a geek is usually a man, I think not. He's been in LOS enough to know what a GIK is.

I said GIK, yep (the thai word). Not Geek.

8 hours ago, tonray said:

And BTW how are you to maintain a relationship  ? You are wealthy enough to retire here and be with her?  Or you expect her not to see other guys while you spend 25 years saving for retirement. ?

Hopefully, next year I'll likely be financially free (according to my individual cost of living in Spain).

That's why I was even considering the idea of trying things in Samui... Of course, this morning I'm no longer so up to it 

11 hours ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

All the red flags including her nikname.....gimme a break

Of course, I dind't use her true name on my post. It was just a reference to Private dancer, hehe

Wow, thank you all, just read all the replies, didn't expect so much feedback in so little time...!

Hard to come to terms with some stuff... but deep down I wanted an objective feedback to open my eyes... I appreciatte that, mates.

I'll try to ask and clarify some things in the next post.

Hello!

 

Pleased to greet you all, I’ve nearly spent 1 year reading this forum, it helped me to learn different and numerous points of view about Thai people and Western-Thai relationships.

 

BRIEF DISCLAIMER: this said, I’m feeling the need to write my first (long) post about my situation. I apologize for some “already-seen-1000-times” stuff… Nevertheless, there will be “not so typical” stuff too and, hopefully, my approach will bring you some hilarious moments xD

I honestly believe that all facts narrated here may as well help a lot of people in the future, as they can recognize their own situation in my words.

 

Here we go.

 

I had my first short trip to Thailand in January 2017. I must say that I was not initially looking for girls or affairs, mainly sightseeing. I had a “gik” back home (potentially gf material indeed) and, though it was not such a serious relationship yet, playing around was not my priority during my trip…

It was my last night in Thailand when I met Joyce. I was partying with some friends in Kaoshan and so was her (with Thai female friends). I made eye contact first and we exchanged a couple of smiles and glances… Actually, half of me wanted to let it go but… no way… she was damn cute and eventually I got too curious and approached her. She looked like shy but easy-going and smiling. I was having my flight back home just the next morning and, due to additional reasons, we barely could spend time together that night and nothing happened (just a bit of talk, dancing and good vibes). Anyway we ended up exchanging phone numbers.

 

Some previous info about me:

-          I’m in my early 30’s, average-decent looks, fit and slim.

-          Living in Spain, solvent economy, flexible job.

-          University educated, travelled, open minded, reflective and not jealous man.

-          Not the typical guy who is unable to get girls in his country (not so easily naive about Thai girls… as far as I know!)

 

Some previous info about her:

-          She’s in her middle 20’s, dark skinned, from the very south of Thailand. Currently living in Samui.

-          University girl, working full time in a big Thai Bank office job (money exchange).

-          English: acceptable (typical Thai grammar translation mistakes).

-          Never travelled abroad.

 

THE STORY:

 

We started texting via whatsapp* as I left back home. I told her I had had some kind of crush on her and she started texting me every single day. Weeks went by, we had videocalls, she began telling me how much she missed me, colorful smileys turned into “Disney love-like” comments “I have only you” statements (without me asking to be that special guy or making any promise...) pics and videos being sent (BTW getting increasingly hotter!). On the other hand, she used to say oftenly “you butterfly, how was your night with your gik/gf, blabla” this kind of speech… (again, without me having told her previously any info about that).

This said, infatuation started knocking at my door, but I wanted not to lose my mind too soon. I decided to do a deep research about Thai girls, behaviors, red flags, culture, etc. I read Private Dancer, Warren Olson confessions, blogs about Thailand (Stickman, etc) and tons of threads in Thaivisa. Helpful indeed!

 

Soon after, I got to spot her on Facebook but didn’t add her (neither let her know). Just wanted to be able to check things just in case. Lot of selfies, some pics partying, “likes”and comments were from Thai people 99%. Not too obvious red flags (at least within the public content).

 

In fact, these were the most suspicious things so far:

-          She was using Tinder (actually she was the one who confessed it without me ever mentioning it. She just asked me openly whether I’d ever heard of it, kind of in an innocent and straight way… )

-          *She was using whatsapp and chances were she was talking to more people farangs…

-          She used to party whenever she had a day off (2-3 times a week). Thorough makeup, oftenly sexy clothes and drinking (several drinks, shots or beers during the night). Sometimes she stayed up until 4-5AM…

 

Anyway, along with these unanswered questions, I decided to book a flight in July to meet her again in Bkk. I had nothing to lose, wanted to give it a chance and I was very excited to see her again.

We spent a week together and… WOW… we had a really mindblowing romance… Tears were dropped by both before I left and, back home, I was already infatuated.

The trip summary:

+We spent 95% of the day together (no weird behaviors, no phone suspicious issues,…)

+Never asked for money, for that matter I had the feeling that she was up to paying for some of my expenses (nonetheless I tried to keep the balance).

+She was (mostly, though not 100%) reluctant to physical affection during daylight.

 

Yet, I was aware of “little” things:

-We had sex the very first night. One week before my arrival, she had been 100% comfortable booking one only room for the two of us in a really fancy hotel (she paid it in advance).

-When partying she kind of used to look around and then commented “that guy likes me” (as if she had a “men radar”)

 

I must state something, to be honest: I had still been meeting my Spanish gik sporadically… but I had been increasingly falling for Joyce and, after my trip, my heart had been definitively left it in Thailand.

About two months later I was already thinking about taking Joyce seriously when it turned out that…
…I just found out there was another farang involved with her. Jim, a young backpacker in his 20’s.

 

(in order to summarize, I will omit the emotional rollercoaster, comings and goings and the facts that led me to find it out).

 

After 2-3 weeks of dealing with my emotions and even getting to know Jim (and Joyce crying a river and losing face with the whole situation) this was the summary:

-          She had lied explicitly about me being her first farang, her having only me and "loving" only me.

-          She had first met Jim one month before meeting me again. He was spending a week in Samui, they had had an affair, kept in touch and recently Jim had asked her to be in a serious relationship… what she had already accepted (!?). As I got to know, there was no difference in her behavior with both Jim and me and neither was money involved... I could only remark her Whatsapp profile post from last 4 months: “I miss you” in my language, not Jim’s (!!) (and Jim had never noticed it, even when he was a really controlling guy…!)

-          Jim ended up running away, he went madly jealous and couldn’t believe that she had cheated on him like this.

-          Of course, she tried hard to get me back promising she wouldn’t do it again, blablabla… I told her that I was able to handle my jealousy because I'd always thought this scenario was possible since I’d read a lot about Thai people/girls and I was not such a naive guy...
“Sanuk, loneliness, sex… I know how important those things are for a young Thai lady… I don’t really blame you. It was just not necessary to state I was the only one because it’s unrealistic expecting fidelity while being apart for so long… Love is not enough, blablabla, etc”. This sort of speech.

 

Anyway, things eventually got back to normal between us. As nothing had happened. Months went by, we kept talking everyday and I was even able to play down Jim’s topic.

 

Everything remained as always. Just little changes:
- Not so many “Disney like-comments”, “Relationship goals” FB fanpage colourful-smiley quotes, etc. Instead, more adult-like affection based on sweetness, lust and complicity.
- She started kind of testing my lack of jealousy sending pics with farangs when she was out partying. “Lot of guys liked me tonight/look at this screenshot, he offered me 2000baths to go to his hotel***/etc…” I turned a blind eye and never showed myself jealous about it*. “I’d like to believe that you don’t play around but if you need it I can’t do anything about it and anyway I will never know 100%”- that’s what I used to say.

 

*** more on this at the end of my post

 

*The fact that I hadn’t actually stopped meeting my Spanish gik likely helped. Though my feelings for Joyce were still “heart cocaine”, my trust in her being faithful was at rock bottom… but since I had accepted the reality about her, I was at peace with it,… I just wanted to enjoy the good things, turn a blind eye on the “not so good ones” and eventually see what this affair was meant to be…

 

I returned to Thailand one month ago to meet Joyce again for 7 days. In order to summarize: everything I said about the previous trip was the same this time… and it felt even better. Passion, lust, chemistry, sanuk, surrealistic anecdotes (we had some crazy laughs with me taking her phone to swipe guys on Tinder and text them in front of her!) and tears, lot of tears when I was about to leave…

Back home again… half of me is crazy in love with Joyce and wouldn’t mind to move to Samui to try things out. The other half tells me to be careful…

We have even talked about her coming to Spain on summer. Half of me is looking forward... The other half tells me not even think about getting more serious with Joyce (my Spanish gik is lately asking for more but my heart is clearly in Thailand) and eventually prioritize the Spanish gal, no matter what…

 

My main questions right now:

- Could Joyce’s affair ever work out if we get to remove the distance issue? Or should I run away like hell (and like Jim…) before it’s too late?

 

- How much may she be earning at her job? Is it enough to afford her lifestyle? (not too ostentatious but still an Iphone 6, reflex camera, drinking and partying 2-3 times a week, she doesn’t get money from her parents, moreover, she sporadically helps them… and the most important fact: she seems to spend the big cash whenever we both meet… (flights from Samui, fancy hotels, tours, souvenirs,…)

 

***That screenshot… Why does she give her number to so many guys? Chances are she might be a freelancer from time to time? I don’t think she’s likely to have an overseas sponsor because (except when she was with Jim) she's always been widely available for me every single day, never vanished for even a couple of days… (anyway nothing is 100% warranted…)

 

P.S.1 We’re not friends on FB yet, although we know each other profiles…

P.S.2 Months ago I read this somewhere: “You can tell how wealthy a Thai girl is by the food she leaves on the plate” Well, Joyce repeatedly leaves 40-50% of the food…

 

If you’ve come this far, Thanks so much for reading! Any feedback to share experiences is welcome :)