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stevieff
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Posts posted by stevieff
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A currency which loses 100% of its value is then worthless.....if you take away 100% of anything then there is none left......this rarely happens but does occasionally....rusually when a gov't loses a war and the old currency becomes worthless. And to take this to the absurd level actual paper currency never becomes completly worthless because it always has a recycle value as paper. In high school on a test the teacher asked "Is it possible for currency to literally be not worth the paper it is printed on?". The teacher wanted the answer to be "yes" but I put "no" and was at first counted as wrong but when I explained to the teacher that the paper currency IS the paper it is printed on so the only way it can be worth less is for it to be destroyed physically the teacher agreed that my point was valid and gave me credit for my answer (much to the teacher's credit).ic
Chonwah
Oh, please. It's just a doubling factor when it comes to currency. You can lose 100 percent of a currencies value relative to another currency or 1000 percent relative to another currency. It's simple math, baht goes from 34 to the USD to 340 baht to the USD, the baht has lost 1000 percent relative to USD currency. I'm happy you're teacher thought you were a bright student.
It is not a doubling factor...not for currency or anything else.
When the baht is at 34 to the dollar a baht is worth $0.02941.
When the baht is at 340 to the dollar a baht is worth $0.002941.
The baht lost $.026469 of value relative to the dollar when it went from 34 to 340.
To find the percentage of its value that was lost you take the reduction in value and divide it by the original value and then multiply by 100:
(0.026469/0.0294) x 100 = 90%. The baht lost 90% of its value relative to the dollar.
I suppose you could say that the us dollar APPRECIATED 1000% against the baht and then you would be correct.
Check my calcs since I didn't,
Chownah
Chonwah, I see that you simplified it for steve, yet I have a feeling that logical thought may not be one of his strong suits so I imagine that he will still contend that a currency can indeed lose more than 100% of its value. The hard figures on the thai economy are coming in every day and the situation is not looking very good. I think that before years end steve will come out of his denial phase and realize that outside of some insulated places like Phuket and PiPi, that the Thai real estate market is indeed in dire straights and will continue to be so for some time to come. Steve, since you can't be reasoned with logically I think I will just leave you with your Thai real estate investments to figure it out for yourself, good luck!
When Thailand land prices actually drop in baht terms, you can tell us all about it, sweet-pea.
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A currency which loses 100% of its value is then worthless.....if you take away 100% of anything then there is none left......this rarely happens but does occasionally....rusually when a gov't loses a war and the old currency becomes worthless. And to take this to the absurd level actual paper currency never becomes completly worthless because it always has a recycle value as paper. In high school on a test the teacher asked "Is it possible for currency to literally be not worth the paper it is printed on?". The teacher wanted the answer to be "yes" but I put "no" and was at first counted as wrong but when I explained to the teacher that the paper currency IS the paper it is printed on so the only way it can be worth less is for it to be destroyed physically the teacher agreed that my point was valid and gave me credit for my answer (much to the teacher's credit).ic
Chonwah
Oh, please. It's just a doubling factor when it comes to currency. You can lose 100 percent of a currencies value relative to another currency or 1000 percent relative to another currency. It's simple math, baht goes from 34 to the USD to 340 baht to the USD, the baht has lost 1000 percent relative to USD currency. I'm happy you're teacher thought you were a bright student.
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Most of my net worth is in commercial real estate in the different areas of the US, mostly partnerships in tall office buildings. I agree with some who are down on Thailand in that I am not pulling vast amounts of my net worth and plugging it into Thai assets at this time. However, the money I have brought over in the last six years and invested in condos, land, aircraft, and stocks has done quite well. Will it continue to do so, who knows? If nothing else these Thai investments have been a wonderful hedge against the crashing dollar. Also, I am generally optimistic on condo investing (not speculating) in Hua Hin and Bangkok, markets where I live. This is based on the feeling I get that Thailand is becoming a more attractive location to live for foreigners and looks like it will continue to progress. This has nothing to do with the daily drama of Thai politics or the housing loan situation in Lampang.
There is just a critical mass of foreigners that has arrived in the last 3 years and the ever increasing numbers make it easier to live here as the comforts of home appear here in Thailand for the masses of Scandis, Brits, and others arriving. That said, the condo market in Bangkok particularly, as well as Hua Hin, will be dominated by other Asians seeking inexpensive second homes close to their native land.
As a real estate agent I am inclined to agree. The Thai property market doesn't follow the Western model. The property owning Thais tend to hunker down and hold onto their assets whenever there is a financial crisis. Now that a large number of foreigners are in the property market this may change, but so far I haven't seen any evidence of it. A few clients have reduced their asking price, but overall prices have flattened out over the last 12 months. I don't see a downward trend. When the market picks up again prices will start rising again.
Once again the doomsayers are predicting a property 'meltdown'. Once again they are wrong. Demand is high, and at the moment there are plenty of condos for sale. But no one is rushing in to grab them while the current political instability persists.
When things do start moving again you can expect plenty of these condos to be in high demand again. In other words, this is a good time to invest if you can wait it out.
As to the rumors that I am selling out: As usual, the rumor mongers have it only partly right.
I have the Holt WorldWide up for sale, which is the umbrella company for my IT and real estate businesses. But I am not selling out because of the property market. In fact, my property business is doing very well thank you. Instead of small home and condo buyers, however, my main clients now are big buyers; hotels, golf courses, large land plots, buildings, etc.
The main reason I am planning to move back to Australia is purely personal. My mother is 83 years old and she wants my kids around during her last years. I will continue to maintain a business here, whether I sell the company or not. I think Thailand has a great future. It has a solid manufacturing and agricultural base. Not even the men in green can destroy that without going all out.
Cooler heads are starting to make their voices heard to the government and I believe once the green morons...sorry, government is voted out of office, it will be business as usual and many of the rules they are bringing in now will be overturned for the stupid ideas that they are.
Don't give up on Thailand folks. But do keep your heads down right now. Wait and see. If you want to keep up with the latest news subscribe to my newsletter. You will get an honest and realistic assessment of the property market each month. Opt in at holt-realty.com. Hope you join!
Most intelligent post I've read in several months. If people expect a real estate price melt-down in Thailand, forget it, it won't happen. Thai's will sit on it forever and will never reduce prices.
If anything Thai's will increase their prices in the event of a slow market. It's happening now in other sectors. Poor sales in other parts of the world means sales and price reductions, but here it's an excuse to raise prices to cope with the loss of income. That's what makes Thailand unqiue.
Exactly. People can wait for a price melt-down, show all the economic data they want to inferring a melt-down and yet it will not happen in Thailand.
Stevie, Right on man a melt down can never happen in Thailand, right? People like you were saying the same thing back in 1997 and look what happened. You are obviously in denial about what is currently going on in the Thai economy, you might want to check out a very insightful associated press article in the business section of todays International Herald Tribune. The first sentence in the article is "Four asain nations hit hard by the 1997-98 financial crisis face renewed vulnerability to sudden capital outflows that could cause a currency crisis". I will let you take a wild guess as to which asian nation was first on that list. The Thai finance minister who recently resigned was very well aware of the situation, but apparently his arguments fell on deaf (or perhaps corrupt) ears in the current administration. You don't have to be able to read tea leaves, the signs are all there for anybody to see, just open up your eyes and do a little research as to what occured back in 1997 and then look at the current situation in Thailand.
Thank you for your long and rambling economic dissertation. Did anything you said effect the price of real property, land, etc., then? Real estate prices (in baht terms) didn't drop then, it only became more reasonable for foreigners to buy it because of currency de-valuation. To replicate the 1997 scenario, in 1997 real estate prices, the baht would have lose over 100 percent of it's current position. Do you really think that's likely? I mean, that is what you're suggesting.
Calm down there stevo! First of all it is impossible for the baht or any investment to lose over 100%, you can lose up to 100% but not more than that. When you wake up and smell the coffee you will realize that property prices at the time of the 97 crash were in many cases 20-25% of what they are today and then of course there was the great 2 for 1 sale after the devaluation of the baht. Back in 97-98 conditions were near perfect for the foreign investor and expat, there was lax visa enforcemnet and it was very easy to set up a thai corporation to puchase all those condos, homes and businesses at fire sale prices and the expats were pouring into the country because of the great exchange rate and low cost of real estate. Now we move to 2007 and Thailand faces yet another monetary crisis in which the baht will soon be facing a devaluation once again, however the scenario for expats and foreign investors has changed drmatically. Expats are facing a slew of tougher visa regs and the investor visa among others has gone by the wayside, along with these tougher new regs is a country run by a military hunta and ethnic instability along with random bombings. In a nutshell steve, the expats are not beating a path to Thailand anymore (in fact many are leaving and trying desperatly to sell their property) and at the same time foreign investors are finding it harder to form a thai corporation and harder to find real real estate bargains and they have many other options like cambodia , vietnam and maylaysia to chanel there investments to. The Thai economy is heading downwards and a credit crunch is imminent so the Thai people are not and will not be buying much real estate either. When you add it all up there are more and more properties coming on the market each and every day and there just aren't many buyers out there. If you are currently heavily invested in real estate in Thailand I would think you might want to rethink your portfolio, or be perpared to hold on to those properties for a very long time to come. By the way you are quite welcome for my last rambling economic dissertation as well as this one.
First of all, Vegas, I don't see the necessity to "calm down" as I don't believe I was irate in my last response to your comment. Secondly, it is not "impossible" for a currency to lose over 100 percent of it's value (i.e. baht today trades at 34 per USD, tomorrow trades at 70 baht per USD, you do the math, Vegas). Thirdly, nothing in your second rambling dissertation has any evidence of a real-estate price melt-down in 1997, nor any evidence of real-estate price melt-down today, which was really my only point to begin with, that Thais will never lower their prices for land, regardess of market situations. That's a point you've chosen to take exception with, which is fine with me, I only wish a reasonable counter-point and not some half-assed economic supposition.
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Most of my net worth is in commercial real estate in the different areas of the US, mostly partnerships in tall office buildings. I agree with some who are down on Thailand in that I am not pulling vast amounts of my net worth and plugging it into Thai assets at this time. However, the money I have brought over in the last six years and invested in condos, land, aircraft, and stocks has done quite well. Will it continue to do so, who knows? If nothing else these Thai investments have been a wonderful hedge against the crashing dollar. Also, I am generally optimistic on condo investing (not speculating) in Hua Hin and Bangkok, markets where I live. This is based on the feeling I get that Thailand is becoming a more attractive location to live for foreigners and looks like it will continue to progress. This has nothing to do with the daily drama of Thai politics or the housing loan situation in Lampang.
There is just a critical mass of foreigners that has arrived in the last 3 years and the ever increasing numbers make it easier to live here as the comforts of home appear here in Thailand for the masses of Scandis, Brits, and others arriving. That said, the condo market in Bangkok particularly, as well as Hua Hin, will be dominated by other Asians seeking inexpensive second homes close to their native land.
As a real estate agent I am inclined to agree. The Thai property market doesn't follow the Western model. The property owning Thais tend to hunker down and hold onto their assets whenever there is a financial crisis. Now that a large number of foreigners are in the property market this may change, but so far I haven't seen any evidence of it. A few clients have reduced their asking price, but overall prices have flattened out over the last 12 months. I don't see a downward trend. When the market picks up again prices will start rising again.
Once again the doomsayers are predicting a property 'meltdown'. Once again they are wrong. Demand is high, and at the moment there are plenty of condos for sale. But no one is rushing in to grab them while the current political instability persists.
When things do start moving again you can expect plenty of these condos to be in high demand again. In other words, this is a good time to invest if you can wait it out.
As to the rumors that I am selling out: As usual, the rumor mongers have it only partly right.
I have the Holt WorldWide up for sale, which is the umbrella company for my IT and real estate businesses. But I am not selling out because of the property market. In fact, my property business is doing very well thank you. Instead of small home and condo buyers, however, my main clients now are big buyers; hotels, golf courses, large land plots, buildings, etc.
The main reason I am planning to move back to Australia is purely personal. My mother is 83 years old and she wants my kids around during her last years. I will continue to maintain a business here, whether I sell the company or not. I think Thailand has a great future. It has a solid manufacturing and agricultural base. Not even the men in green can destroy that without going all out.
Cooler heads are starting to make their voices heard to the government and I believe once the green morons...sorry, government is voted out of office, it will be business as usual and many of the rules they are bringing in now will be overturned for the stupid ideas that they are.
Don't give up on Thailand folks. But do keep your heads down right now. Wait and see. If you want to keep up with the latest news subscribe to my newsletter. You will get an honest and realistic assessment of the property market each month. Opt in at holt-realty.com. Hope you join!
Most intelligent post I've read in several months. If people expect a real estate price melt-down in Thailand, forget it, it won't happen. Thai's will sit on it forever and will never reduce prices.
If anything Thai's will increase their prices in the event of a slow market. It's happening now in other sectors. Poor sales in other parts of the world means sales and price reductions, but here it's an excuse to raise prices to cope with the loss of income. That's what makes Thailand unqiue.
Exactly. People can wait for a price melt-down, show all the economic data they want to inferring a melt-down and yet it will not happen in Thailand.
Stevie, Right on man a melt down can never happen in Thailand, right? People like you were saying the same thing back in 1997 and look what happened. You are obviously in denial about what is currently going on in the Thai economy, you might want to check out a very insightful associated press article in the business section of todays International Herald Tribune. The first sentence in the article is "Four asain nations hit hard by the 1997-98 financial crisis face renewed vulnerability to sudden capital outflows that could cause a currency crisis". I will let you take a wild guess as to which asian nation was first on that list. The Thai finance minister who recently resigned was very well aware of the situation, but apparently his arguments fell on deaf (or perhaps corrupt) ears in the current administration. You don't have to be able to read tea leaves, the signs are all there for anybody to see, just open up your eyes and do a little research as to what occured back in 1997 and then look at the current situation in Thailand.
BTW, Vegas, just to clarify, my previous comments had to with a real estate price melt-down. I suppose I didn't clarify that, but since the topic thread is Thailand property depression, I assumed you would know we were talking about real estate prices.
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Most of my net worth is in commercial real estate in the different areas of the US, mostly partnerships in tall office buildings. I agree with some who are down on Thailand in that I am not pulling vast amounts of my net worth and plugging it into Thai assets at this time. However, the money I have brought over in the last six years and invested in condos, land, aircraft, and stocks has done quite well. Will it continue to do so, who knows? If nothing else these Thai investments have been a wonderful hedge against the crashing dollar. Also, I am generally optimistic on condo investing (not speculating) in Hua Hin and Bangkok, markets where I live. This is based on the feeling I get that Thailand is becoming a more attractive location to live for foreigners and looks like it will continue to progress. This has nothing to do with the daily drama of Thai politics or the housing loan situation in Lampang.
There is just a critical mass of foreigners that has arrived in the last 3 years and the ever increasing numbers make it easier to live here as the comforts of home appear here in Thailand for the masses of Scandis, Brits, and others arriving. That said, the condo market in Bangkok particularly, as well as Hua Hin, will be dominated by other Asians seeking inexpensive second homes close to their native land.
As a real estate agent I am inclined to agree. The Thai property market doesn't follow the Western model. The property owning Thais tend to hunker down and hold onto their assets whenever there is a financial crisis. Now that a large number of foreigners are in the property market this may change, but so far I haven't seen any evidence of it. A few clients have reduced their asking price, but overall prices have flattened out over the last 12 months. I don't see a downward trend. When the market picks up again prices will start rising again.
Once again the doomsayers are predicting a property 'meltdown'. Once again they are wrong. Demand is high, and at the moment there are plenty of condos for sale. But no one is rushing in to grab them while the current political instability persists.
When things do start moving again you can expect plenty of these condos to be in high demand again. In other words, this is a good time to invest if you can wait it out.
As to the rumors that I am selling out: As usual, the rumor mongers have it only partly right.
I have the Holt WorldWide up for sale, which is the umbrella company for my IT and real estate businesses. But I am not selling out because of the property market. In fact, my property business is doing very well thank you. Instead of small home and condo buyers, however, my main clients now are big buyers; hotels, golf courses, large land plots, buildings, etc.
The main reason I am planning to move back to Australia is purely personal. My mother is 83 years old and she wants my kids around during her last years. I will continue to maintain a business here, whether I sell the company or not. I think Thailand has a great future. It has a solid manufacturing and agricultural base. Not even the men in green can destroy that without going all out.
Cooler heads are starting to make their voices heard to the government and I believe once the green morons...sorry, government is voted out of office, it will be business as usual and many of the rules they are bringing in now will be overturned for the stupid ideas that they are.
Don't give up on Thailand folks. But do keep your heads down right now. Wait and see. If you want to keep up with the latest news subscribe to my newsletter. You will get an honest and realistic assessment of the property market each month. Opt in at holt-realty.com. Hope you join!
Most intelligent post I've read in several months. If people expect a real estate price melt-down in Thailand, forget it, it won't happen. Thai's will sit on it forever and will never reduce prices.
If anything Thai's will increase their prices in the event of a slow market. It's happening now in other sectors. Poor sales in other parts of the world means sales and price reductions, but here it's an excuse to raise prices to cope with the loss of income. That's what makes Thailand unqiue.
Exactly. People can wait for a price melt-down, show all the economic data they want to inferring a melt-down and yet it will not happen in Thailand.
Stevie, Right on man a melt down can never happen in Thailand, right? People like you were saying the same thing back in 1997 and look what happened. You are obviously in denial about what is currently going on in the Thai economy, you might want to check out a very insightful associated press article in the business section of todays International Herald Tribune. The first sentence in the article is "Four asain nations hit hard by the 1997-98 financial crisis face renewed vulnerability to sudden capital outflows that could cause a currency crisis". I will let you take a wild guess as to which asian nation was first on that list. The Thai finance minister who recently resigned was very well aware of the situation, but apparently his arguments fell on deaf (or perhaps corrupt) ears in the current administration. You don't have to be able to read tea leaves, the signs are all there for anybody to see, just open up your eyes and do a little research as to what occured back in 1997 and then look at the current situation in Thailand.
Thank you for your long and rambling economic dissertation. Did anything you said effect the price of real property, land, etc., then? Real estate prices (in baht terms) didn't drop then, it only became more reasonable for foreigners to buy it because of currency de-valuation. To replicate the 1997 scenario, in 1997 real estate prices, the baht would have lose over 100 percent of it's current position. Do you really think that's likely? I mean, that is what you're suggesting.
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Most of my net worth is in commercial real estate in the different areas of the US, mostly partnerships in tall office buildings. I agree with some who are down on Thailand in that I am not pulling vast amounts of my net worth and plugging it into Thai assets at this time. However, the money I have brought over in the last six years and invested in condos, land, aircraft, and stocks has done quite well. Will it continue to do so, who knows? If nothing else these Thai investments have been a wonderful hedge against the crashing dollar. Also, I am generally optimistic on condo investing (not speculating) in Hua Hin and Bangkok, markets where I live. This is based on the feeling I get that Thailand is becoming a more attractive location to live for foreigners and looks like it will continue to progress. This has nothing to do with the daily drama of Thai politics or the housing loan situation in Lampang.
There is just a critical mass of foreigners that has arrived in the last 3 years and the ever increasing numbers make it easier to live here as the comforts of home appear here in Thailand for the masses of Scandis, Brits, and others arriving. That said, the condo market in Bangkok particularly, as well as Hua Hin, will be dominated by other Asians seeking inexpensive second homes close to their native land.
As a real estate agent I am inclined to agree. The Thai property market doesn't follow the Western model. The property owning Thais tend to hunker down and hold onto their assets whenever there is a financial crisis. Now that a large number of foreigners are in the property market this may change, but so far I haven't seen any evidence of it. A few clients have reduced their asking price, but overall prices have flattened out over the last 12 months. I don't see a downward trend. When the market picks up again prices will start rising again.
Once again the doomsayers are predicting a property 'meltdown'. Once again they are wrong. Demand is high, and at the moment there are plenty of condos for sale. But no one is rushing in to grab them while the current political instability persists.
When things do start moving again you can expect plenty of these condos to be in high demand again. In other words, this is a good time to invest if you can wait it out.
As to the rumors that I am selling out: As usual, the rumor mongers have it only partly right.
I have the Holt WorldWide up for sale, which is the umbrella company for my IT and real estate businesses. But I am not selling out because of the property market. In fact, my property business is doing very well thank you. Instead of small home and condo buyers, however, my main clients now are big buyers; hotels, golf courses, large land plots, buildings, etc.
The main reason I am planning to move back to Australia is purely personal. My mother is 83 years old and she wants my kids around during her last years. I will continue to maintain a business here, whether I sell the company or not. I think Thailand has a great future. It has a solid manufacturing and agricultural base. Not even the men in green can destroy that without going all out.
Cooler heads are starting to make their voices heard to the government and I believe once the green morons...sorry, government is voted out of office, it will be business as usual and many of the rules they are bringing in now will be overturned for the stupid ideas that they are.
Don't give up on Thailand folks. But do keep your heads down right now. Wait and see. If you want to keep up with the latest news subscribe to my newsletter. You will get an honest and realistic assessment of the property market each month. Opt in at holt-realty.com. Hope you join!
Most intelligent post I've read in several months. If people expect a real estate price melt-down in Thailand, forget it, it won't happen. Thai's will sit on it forever and will never reduce prices.
If anything Thai's will increase their prices in the event of a slow market. It's happening now in other sectors. Poor sales in other parts of the world means sales and price reductions, but here it's an excuse to raise prices to cope with the loss of income. That's what makes Thailand unqiue.
Exactly. People can wait for a price melt-down, show all the economic data they want to inferring a melt-down and yet it will not happen in Thailand.
-
Most of my net worth is in commercial real estate in the different areas of the US, mostly partnerships in tall office buildings. I agree with some who are down on Thailand in that I am not pulling vast amounts of my net worth and plugging it into Thai assets at this time. However, the money I have brought over in the last six years and invested in condos, land, aircraft, and stocks has done quite well. Will it continue to do so, who knows? If nothing else these Thai investments have been a wonderful hedge against the crashing dollar. Also, I am generally optimistic on condo investing (not speculating) in Hua Hin and Bangkok, markets where I live. This is based on the feeling I get that Thailand is becoming a more attractive location to live for foreigners and looks like it will continue to progress. This has nothing to do with the daily drama of Thai politics or the housing loan situation in Lampang.
There is just a critical mass of foreigners that has arrived in the last 3 years and the ever increasing numbers make it easier to live here as the comforts of home appear here in Thailand for the masses of Scandis, Brits, and others arriving. That said, the condo market in Bangkok particularly, as well as Hua Hin, will be dominated by other Asians seeking inexpensive second homes close to their native land.
As a real estate agent I am inclined to agree. The Thai property market doesn't follow the Western model. The property owning Thais tend to hunker down and hold onto their assets whenever there is a financial crisis. Now that a large number of foreigners are in the property market this may change, but so far I haven't seen any evidence of it. A few clients have reduced their asking price, but overall prices have flattened out over the last 12 months. I don't see a downward trend. When the market picks up again prices will start rising again.
Once again the doomsayers are predicting a property 'meltdown'. Once again they are wrong. Demand is high, and at the moment there are plenty of condos for sale. But no one is rushing in to grab them while the current political instability persists.
When things do start moving again you can expect plenty of these condos to be in high demand again. In other words, this is a good time to invest if you can wait it out.
As to the rumors that I am selling out: As usual, the rumor mongers have it only partly right.
I have the Holt WorldWide up for sale, which is the umbrella company for my IT and real estate businesses. But I am not selling out because of the property market. In fact, my property business is doing very well thank you. Instead of small home and condo buyers, however, my main clients now are big buyers; hotels, golf courses, large land plots, buildings, etc.
The main reason I am planning to move back to Australia is purely personal. My mother is 83 years old and she wants my kids around during her last years. I will continue to maintain a business here, whether I sell the company or not. I think Thailand has a great future. It has a solid manufacturing and agricultural base. Not even the men in green can destroy that without going all out.
Cooler heads are starting to make their voices heard to the government and I believe once the green morons...sorry, government is voted out of office, it will be business as usual and many of the rules they are bringing in now will be overturned for the stupid ideas that they are.
Don't give up on Thailand folks. But do keep your heads down right now. Wait and see. If you want to keep up with the latest news subscribe to my newsletter. You will get an honest and realistic assessment of the property market each month. Opt in at holt-realty.com. Hope you join!
Most intelligent post I've read in several months. If people expect a real estate price melt-down in Thailand, forget it, it won't happen. Thai's will sit on it forever and will never reduce prices.
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My opinion is that you should follow the law, get a 30 year lease on the land, and consider anything you build on it to be a disposable item that's good till the end of the lease. If you can work out a deal at the end of it then consider yourself lucky. You can still sell the building and the remaining term of the lease should you decide to leave before the 30 year term expires.
I thought subleasing (i.e., 'selling the remaining term of the lease') could only be done with the permission of the lessor (landowner). If such were an irate, former Thai wife, this could prove tricky. Hence, the usufruct option, which does allow for subleasing. (But the discussions over 'lease' vs. 'usufruct' on this forum have been less than conclusive, IMO, particularly regarding the '30-year' or 'lifetime' longevity.)
Yes, the lessor is under no obligation to agree to a reassignment of the lease and there is a limited market for structures on land not owned by the seller, although you are entitled to remove the structure which is not much use unless it made of valuable teak wood. I would think a determined Thai land owner could find a way to dishonour a sublease under a usufruct agreement too, if a farang is the lessor, i.e. have thugs kick the tenant out. There again the demand for such subleases would be extremely limited.
Arkady, don't you think a lease reassignment clause can be structured in the original contract? Seems to me it could.
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ns
Although I have been a bit critical of Samui in the past and am leaving next week for pastures new my sister came from England to visit me last week.
I took her round the island incuding Laem Sor and the new pagoda in the mountain nearby.
Ate at a seafood restaraunt in Lamai and another one on the beach. She loved every minute and thinks I am so lucky to live here. I really enjoyed it as well.
It is such a shame it has problems.
John.
I would suspect most places in the world have problems, just a hunch on my part. Samui has a wonderful climate, good restaurants, shopping, transportation, wonderful views and beaches, all at an inexpensive price. Maybe that's what I love about Samui.
Good transportation?
Agree with the rest apart from the inexpensive price bit.
I don't think transportation is expensive if you do the web deals from Bangkok Airways. A bit more than flying from Phuket, but less airport taxi cost, quicker and better service, free continental breakfast when you depart, free internet while you wait, etc. Add it all up.
Air Asia Bangkok to Surattani between 950 and 2,000 Baht incl. taxes.
Surattani to Samui 280 Baht for bus and ferry.
Sorry for deviating from the topic, but we all know Bangkok Air are a rip off.
So apparently you agree that transportation to Samui is good. Expensive is, of course, a relative term. Bangkok Air costs a somewhat more than others, but hardly what I would call expensive in comparison to other countries.
To be clear about this your original post said `Good transportation` You did not say if you meant transportation to Samui or transportation while you are hear.
Please do not get me going on the Taxi topic.
However you get here or get around enjoy your stay. Count yourself lucky you can come here and enjoy a still mostly beautiful setting.
That is what I meant by good transportation, getting there and getting around.
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ns
Although I have been a bit critical of Samui in the past and am leaving next week for pastures new my sister came from England to visit me last week.
I took her round the island incuding Laem Sor and the new pagoda in the mountain nearby.
Ate at a seafood restaraunt in Lamai and another one on the beach. She loved every minute and thinks I am so lucky to live here. I really enjoyed it as well.
It is such a shame it has problems.
John.
I would suspect most places in the world have problems, just a hunch on my part. Samui has a wonderful climate, good restaurants, shopping, transportation, wonderful views and beaches, all at an inexpensive price. Maybe that's what I love about Samui.
Good transportation?
Agree with the rest apart from the inexpensive price bit.
I don't think transportation is expensive if you do the web deals from Bangkok Airways. A bit more than flying from Phuket, but less airport taxi cost, quicker and better service, free continental breakfast when you depart, free internet while you wait, etc. Add it all up.
Air Asia Bangkok to Surattani between 950 and 2,000 Baht incl. taxes.
Surattani to Samui 280 Baht for bus and ferry.
Sorry for deviating from the topic, but we all know Bangkok Air are a rip off.
So apparently you agree that transportation to Samui is good. Expensive is, of course, a relative term. Bangkok Air costs a somewhat more than others, but hardly what I would call expensive in comparison to other countries.
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ns
Although I have been a bit critical of Samui in the past and am leaving next week for pastures new my sister came from England to visit me last week.
I took her round the island incuding Laem Sor and the new pagoda in the mountain nearby.
Ate at a seafood restaraunt in Lamai and another one on the beach. She loved every minute and thinks I am so lucky to live here. I really enjoyed it as well.
It is such a shame it has problems.
John.
I would suspect most places in the world have problems, just a hunch on my part. Samui has a wonderful climate, good restaurants, shopping, transportation, wonderful views and beaches, all at an inexpensive price. Maybe that's what I love about Samui.
Good transportation?
Agree with the rest apart from the inexpensive price bit.
I don't think transportation is expensive if you do the web deals from Bangkok Airways. A bit more than flying from Phuket, but less airport taxi cost, quicker and better service, free continental breakfast when you depart, free internet while you wait, etc. Add it all up.
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ns
Although I have been a bit critical of Samui in the past and am leaving next week for pastures new my sister came from England to visit me last week.
I took her round the island incuding Laem Sor and the new pagoda in the mountain nearby.
Ate at a seafood restaraunt in Lamai and another one on the beach. She loved every minute and thinks I am so lucky to live here. I really enjoyed it as well.
It is such a shame it has problems.
John.
I would suspect most places in the world have problems, just a hunch on my part. Samui has a wonderful climate, good restaurants, shopping, transportation, wonderful views and beaches, all at an inexpensive price. Maybe that's what I love about Samui.
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What I find a bit comical is that people seem to think land and house prices are expensive in Samui. You can still buy a piece of nice sea-view land, 800 sqm., in a good location close to beaches restaurants, airport, etc., build a brand new 3 bedroom, 2 bath house with swimming pool and gardens for 180,000 usd, on a beautiful tropical island with complete infrastucture, transportation,etc. There is simply no place in the world you can do that. You can still buy a small house for less than 50,000 usd on Samui. Samui expensive? Sorry, I have to laugh a little.
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They are real papers, issued by the land dept official but they are fake in that they aren't correct. ie issuing a chanote title for a piece of national forest land, all for a fat bribe, would, to most people, make it invalid.
Yes I agree there has been much talk about illegal upgrades , but that is not a fake paper it is an genuine paper but not legal because it was not issued correctly .
Perhaps they are talking about the same thing , but with the wording being different .
ued
Quite often things are lost in translation..........
The fact remains there is a great deal of dodgy land on this Island, whether it is fake papers as in counterfeit does it really matter. Whether they are fake papers or real papers issued illegally by those in authority makes little difference, the fact remains the land isn't legally allowed to be built on and never was.
Incidently for those that paid for proper searches by Bangkok lawyers there shouldn't be any problems, doing so myself I found several plots which were dodgy and being offered by local lawyers as being a safe buy. Needless to say I gave them a wide berth. Had I used a local Samui Lawyer i'm sure I could eb one of the unlucky ones now stuck with one of those plots.
Chanote is Chanote, if it's legally issued and duly registered in the Land Office, you can build on it. All the rest of this is BS.
you are absolutly right chanot is a chanot if it was "Leagaly" issued.
But..... what happens f it is not legaly issued???
Samui has many land that were issued land title deed with out any legitamte cause. many of them have been sold a few times and seem legal but they are not.
40 years ago many land did not have a title deed and have been passed down from father to son. the govermant has intitiated a land upgrade to those lands about 40 years ago and gave them a Sor kor 1 title that was later approved to be upgraded to nor sor 3
Since Samui has become a real estate paradise about 10 years, and as land prices became more expansive. new land titles were issued to land plots that did not have land titles. ie forest land, toe bor 5 land an so on.
the titles ae on legitimate papaer and bare legitmate stamps. but they have been issued ileagaly!!
the most widely used scam was to issue a false sor kor 1 title that was preumably correct and then upgrade the title to nor sor 3. this could not be done with out the assitance of someone on the inside... and the motivation is there.
some of those lands were sold 3 or 4 times and they seem legit. but they are not. they are public lands or forrest lands that have been encroached and then made to have titles.
the fact the the papers seem in order and that the land office has registered all the land transaction does not conridict the basic fact that the land is false.
to examine if a land title is legit you need to ask the land office (as most serious lawyers will do) for the history of the land from the first land owner. if the first issue of a land title is from about 40 years ago when the land office started registering land then it is probably legit. however if the land has been issued the first ownership paper 7-10 years ago then it is probably not legit.
if you look at the old land office maps of Samui in the land office you can see that most of the proper owned lands were on the beach and mostly in the main towns.
in the hills and in in the inner part of the island most lands were farming lands under tor bor 5. so were did all those land titles come from???
a thai friend of mine was scamed to buy a plot of land from a distinguished well conected well known Thai on the island.
As it turns out she paid for the land and was not given any papers and was told that the land is tor bor 5 and that she need no worry as he will take care to make it legit. when i told her that he can not clear this matter as this is govermant land and under the law she can not buy it she just shrugged and said. you Farrang you do understand Thailand...
the DSI has been conducting an investigation at the land office for the past year together with the forest department and they have found many land titles that are false.
The question is what they will do about it?
will they confiscate the lands as they did in phuket?
First of all, let me say this, I posted what I said purposely to start a discussion. Highdiver, I'm glad you joined the discussion, I have respect for you. Typically, lands in Samui were issued land titles, as in most of Thailand, based upon agricultural occupation. Just use some common sense when evaluating a property. The farther away from the sea and the higher up the mountain you go, the less likely it is that land has a legally issued title. Of course, people are always looking for the good deal. Look for lands near the sea and not too far up the mountain, chances are their Chanote. They cost more money, though.
Also wanted to add one more comment, Highdiver. 40 years ago most all property in Thailand did not have clear property title, not just Samui. Everyone acts as though this problem is somehow only endemic to Samui. It is not. It's due to the fact that private land ownership in Thailand is still in it's infancy.
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They are real papers, issued by the land dept official but they are fake in that they aren't correct. ie issuing a chanote title for a piece of national forest land, all for a fat bribe, would, to most people, make it invalid.
Yes I agree there has been much talk about illegal upgrades , but that is not a fake paper it is an genuine paper but not legal because it was not issued correctly .
Perhaps they are talking about the same thing , but with the wording being different .
ued
Quite often things are lost in translation..........
The fact remains there is a great deal of dodgy land on this Island, whether it is fake papers as in counterfeit does it really matter. Whether they are fake papers or real papers issued illegally by those in authority makes little difference, the fact remains the land isn't legally allowed to be built on and never was.
Incidently for those that paid for proper searches by Bangkok lawyers there shouldn't be any problems, doing so myself I found several plots which were dodgy and being offered by local lawyers as being a safe buy. Needless to say I gave them a wide berth. Had I used a local Samui Lawyer i'm sure I could eb one of the unlucky ones now stuck with one of those plots.
Chanote is Chanote, if it's legally issued and duly registered in the Land Office, you can build on it. All the rest of this is BS.
you are absolutly right chanot is a chanot if it was "Leagaly" issued.
But..... what happens f it is not legaly issued???
Samui has many land that were issued land title deed with out any legitamte cause. many of them have been sold a few times and seem legal but they are not.
40 years ago many land did not have a title deed and have been passed down from father to son. the govermant has intitiated a land upgrade to those lands about 40 years ago and gave them a Sor kor 1 title that was later approved to be upgraded to nor sor 3
Since Samui has become a real estate paradise about 10 years, and as land prices became more expansive. new land titles were issued to land plots that did not have land titles. ie forest land, toe bor 5 land an so on.
the titles ae on legitimate papaer and bare legitmate stamps. but they have been issued ileagaly!!
the most widely used scam was to issue a false sor kor 1 title that was preumably correct and then upgrade the title to nor sor 3. this could not be done with out the assitance of someone on the inside... and the motivation is there.
some of those lands were sold 3 or 4 times and they seem legit. but they are not. they are public lands or forrest lands that have been encroached and then made to have titles.
the fact the the papers seem in order and that the land office has registered all the land transaction does not conridict the basic fact that the land is false.
to examine if a land title is legit you need to ask the land office (as most serious lawyers will do) for the history of the land from the first land owner. if the first issue of a land title is from about 40 years ago when the land office started registering land then it is probably legit. however if the land has been issued the first ownership paper 7-10 years ago then it is probably not legit.
if you look at the old land office maps of Samui in the land office you can see that most of the proper owned lands were on the beach and mostly in the main towns.
in the hills and in in the inner part of the island most lands were farming lands under tor bor 5. so were did all those land titles come from???
a thai friend of mine was scamed to buy a plot of land from a distinguished well conected well known Thai on the island.
As it turns out she paid for the land and was not given any papers and was told that the land is tor bor 5 and that she need no worry as he will take care to make it legit. when i told her that he can not clear this matter as this is govermant land and under the law she can not buy it she just shrugged and said. you Farrang you do understand Thailand...
the DSI has been conducting an investigation at the land office for the past year together with the forest department and they have found many land titles that are false.
The question is what they will do about it?
will they confiscate the lands as they did in phuket?
First of all, let me say this, I posted what I said purposely to start a discussion. Highdiver, I'm glad you joined the discussion, I have respect for you. Typically, lands in Samui were issued land titles, as in most of Thailand, based upon agricultural occupation. Just use some common sense when evaluating a property. The farther away from the sea and the higher up the mountain you go, the less likely it is that land has a legally issued title. Of course, people are always looking for the good deal. Look for lands near the sea and not too far up the mountain, chances are their Chanote. They cost more money, though.
-
They are real papers, issued by the land dept official but they are fake in that they aren't correct. ie issuing a chanote title for a piece of national forest land, all for a fat bribe, would, to most people, make it invalid.
Yes I agree there has been much talk about illegal upgrades , but that is not a fake paper it is an genuine paper but not legal because it was not issued correctly .
Perhaps they are talking about the same thing , but with the wording being different .
ued
Quite often things are lost in translation..........
The fact remains there is a great deal of dodgy land on this Island, whether it is fake papers as in counterfeit does it really matter. Whether they are fake papers or real papers issued illegally by those in authority makes little difference, the fact remains the land isn't legally allowed to be built on and never was.
Incidently for those that paid for proper searches by Bangkok lawyers there shouldn't be any problems, doing so myself I found several plots which were dodgy and being offered by local lawyers as being a safe buy. Needless to say I gave them a wide berth. Had I used a local Samui Lawyer i'm sure I could eb one of the unlucky ones now stuck with one of those plots.
Chanote is Chanote, if it's legally issued and duly registered in the Land Office, you can build on it. All the rest of this is BS.
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"That is why Japanese (have a) low proficiency in English language "
Where did you get this bit of misinformation?
You don't see where I am? Or you know better? From google?
The sentence means "That is why Japanese' low proficiency..."
And, when will you stop adding drivel and parasiting on my posts? Get lost!
Drivel is pretty much the only thing Backflip truly knows. And yes, you are correct, the Japanese do have a low proficiency with english.
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I've just been told by a friend in the building trade that, while condo prices are softening, land prices are continuing to spiral up, at least in the Eastern Seaboard. Anybody heard similar?
Not sure about everywhere, but in Samui the asking price for land continues to spiral upwards. No one is buying, but the asking price continues to rise. Makes no sense from an economics stand-point, but that's the way it is.
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Hi to everyone on this forum - i have only just come across it.
I have been involved with the project as an investor (idiot maybe.) from almost the very beginning. I am now no longer based in Asia so tracking what is going on is difficult to sday the least.
I would share my knowledge / experience of the matter as follows:
1. If CoCo was going bankrupt then there is nothing all of us can do about it..the money has already gone!
2. Contract law is almost not worth the paper it is written on ( I see that know!) . If you try to sue for breach of contract - technically you will be correct but the lawyers could drag this process out for years by which time you will have spent more than you invested and there will be nothing left in the CoCO kitty if you win.
3. I thankfully used Bangkok lawyers to assist me and as a result am in a stronger position than most.
4. The Palm Villas project is a nightmare for all sides now. The deposit money has been blown on other futile businesses and now that the land separation issue has all but ground to a halt there is a real problem with how that will be addressed by CoCO going forwards. Pretty much investors have no legal asset right now.
5. Is COCO going bangkrupt. I hope not and I dont think so. I believe that the 2 figure head gentlemen will play less of a (incompetant) role and that some other people are calling the shots and looking to salvage a dire situation.
6. I believe some financing may be around the corner and that asset sales will hopefully allow building to restart and the project to be finished.
My dream too has been spoilt and it leaves a very bad taste in my mouth - even if it become finished
What about a class-action suit? That way the legal costs are far diminished for the individual owners. Problem is finding the investors, but a good attorney should be able to do that
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67u57u5On your island, I love Gai and her family at Gai's Pharmacy & Grocery in Maenam. I like San Phet supermarket in Nathon. The beach at Lipa Noi is beautiful for sunsets.
Yes it is. Nearly bought a house there (bought i Plai laem instead). Child friendly beach as well.
If you add it all up, Plai Laem is the best area of the island to live in, access to pretty much everything. Is that why you bought there, Suegha? I mean the access part.
Yes it is. 5 mins from so many places and 10 to nearly everywhere else! I love it.
Well, it is getting crowded and still no real authentic thai restaurant or noodleshop. There are plenty (compared to some years ago), but if you live in Thailand for years you know the difference.
Are you talking about Plai Laem?
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Is this in Thailand? Sounds like San Francisco. Over 2M USD
I just got a quote to build a 304 sq. meter home with the highest quality throughout; granite interior/exterior, super-block, etc. etc. for 2.9M and I think the price is too high. This is Thailand; what are people thinking? Are they thinking?
So you can get a top quality home for less than 10K baht per sqm? where is this?
TH
Udon Thani. Super block at a cost of only 20K baht more than using the grade A brick. I've been watching home/building prices here closely over the past year. My home is actually priced a little high; normally you can get a pretty decent home for around 7,400 baht per sqm. I wanted the best in concrete, cement, rebar, etc. and also in the 'finish' items. BTW, I'm going with the pilings driven into the ground (25 required). Electrical will be standard US.
The builder gave me what I initally asked for, the highest quality materials throughout. However, from his materials list I find many areas to save money just by shopping around. He just went to one source to price everything as it's quite time consuming. Example: 6,000 baht toilets when I've found nice quality for 2,000. I'm sure I can find granite cheaper than he's quoted on the materials list. Nice mirrors for the bathrooms at 950 baht when he quoted 1500, etc. etc.
A farang friend here in my village is having his father-in-law (a builder) build a house for him. It's 90% complete. The final price is 1M baht for 136 sqm. The father-in-law only making 250 baht a day to supervise the job. The other workers making 150 baht a day. I don't personally like the floor plan but the house is nice.
I'll just keep laughing at the people who come here, don't do their homework, and pay close to Western prices for houses here........SOMEONE is making a killing!
Now........if only the baht will weaken.........one can only hope.
Nice to know your friend is paying the workers so handsomely, especially his own father-in-law. Is there hat any way possible he could pare his father-in-law's salary down a little bit, to say 175 baht a day? I'm sure that will save him a bundle. Your friend is truly a piece of work.
Stevieff,
You are truly a piece of work. The rates he is paying are pretty much the standard rural village rates for workers. Your post is just underscoring his remarks about how westerners often pay too much to have work done. I pay skilled workers 170 baht per day and unskilled 150 baht per day...I'm the supervisor but if I had to hire one I could probably get one for 200 baht per day so 250 would be a bit on the generous side so he probably could cut his father in laws wage.
Chownah
The message obviously flew over your head. My thai wife and I own many projects in the province of Sakeo. I am biitacutely aware of "prevailing" wages. We always pay higher than "standard rural village rates". Why? Because we have a social and moral conciousness. We understand that paying those type of will never allow the worker to A}Educate his children,
Own a house and and land, and C} Ever dream that tomorrow will be better than today. Those type of wages will, of course, insure your maximum profitability. So let's discuss who's the real piece of work, shall we, Chownah?Sure, I don't mind discussing this at all. Of the three workers I have hired for a year or more at a time two have sent their children through University (one has children but they aren't old enough to go yet...but they will), they all own their own house and land, and they all don't have to dream about their lives improving because their lives are slowly getting better...at least getting better within the realm of physical goods...better motorcycles, tv's, karaokes, home improvements, etc. Maybe you are not aware that frugal people can have great lives on small wages especially when the wroking conditions mesh well with their culture and life styles. My current ongoing worker likes the fact that he works for me because it allows him to stay close to home so he can tend to his cows everyday and thus make some extra cash...and I don't complain when he walks off during the work day to water or move them. You see, many Thai people know that enough cash is enough and after you get enough then the best thing is to develop the right life style which is what a good life is all about afterall.
If I paid more than the prevailing wage people would probably think I was even richer than they do now and this would put more distance between them and me....I'm not here to be their "savior".....to lift them out of their dire poverty....because they might not have alot of money but they are not poor.
Chownah
BTW the way Chownah, you might consider some serious self-examination before you call someone a piece of work. I hope your wealth makes you happy. I hope not being "their savior" makes you happy. I hope paying the lowest possible wage to insure your maximum profititabiity makes you happy.
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I love lakeview bungalows, it is safe and secure, close to everything that interest me and it has a great garden with swimming pool for my children and me to play in. It is my oasis.
I hate to break this to you but my friend who lives in Lavkeview Bungalows had his house broke into. They stole his laptop, camera and phone. They removed the air conditioner to get in. He thinks it was some of the guys that work out at the Muy Thai training gym close by. This was about 6 weeks ago.
I hate to brake it to you but your friend has brougth ladyboys to his house too many times. The muy thai gays are probably too blame for a lot, now if you ask the manager of lakeview bungalows he is quite happy with what they have done to that area. What hes not happy with (and i know this for a fact because i normally stay in lakeview bungalows), is the fact that some of the longtermers keep bringing ladyboys to the area!!! Now this is a case i know in particular and i say:are all of the people in the "gameclub" gays?? I mean, a bunch of fifty plus people meeting every saturday to play nintendo???????? Are u serious??? Get a grip!!! Samui has : Nice beaches, beutiful women, nice climat, cocconuts,mangotrees,good seafood,and so much else to offer, and a bunch of locals that sit every saturday playing videogames and getting hight on wathever and complaining about somebody robbed them after bringing home several ladyboys and showing them there laptop??????????You people are so gay that its getting embarrissing!!! Now, i have a suggestion for the whole gameclub: Next saturday you dont even start your nintendo, ***edited for flaming and abuse***
Awesome spelling my good man.You must apply for that ENGLISH teaching job advertised by one of the samui posters!
I might. No, serious, im not good at englich, but im quite good at manners. Im so sorry if i lost my tempure but i really feel that somebody that did not diserve it got hurt in this post. Now i, as a tourist spent a lot of my time in lakeview bungalows and liked it. I happend to know that the brake in they had 8 or 9 weeks ago was caused by some man himself because he brought ladyboys in his home. Now, this is a problem all over samui. If you are turned on by ladyboys, the thing is they will check out your home and for sure come back to steel what you have, no matter where you live. Its how they work. They turn u on and see what you have in your home and how to get in. Now, if you keep bringing ladyboys to your home every night and still are surprised when you get robbed, im sorry you dont get it. And "meatgrowler" i am sorry about me speeking an englich you dont understand. If you send me a e-mail i will try to make it even clearer for you. Im not so good at englich, sorry.
Now im gonna do somthing relly crazy, im gonna answer my own quote!! This post where about to be about whats great about samui, yet it ended up about something else, sorry for me contributing to that. I love samui because: you can go to the mountain-resturant with your girlfrined and have a romatic dinner, you can go to the beutiful beach (choeng moen, or even chaweng this time a year) and have a nice lunch with a salt wather bath rigth after it, you can still go and do some jetskidriving, or even a "halfway-serious" offroad-driving with a good motorbike. You can still have a lot of fun on this island and every-one who dont appreciate this should be sent to europe in januari!!! Kidding, but lets face it:you are in paradise and should appreciate it. Samui is a great place to be, even thought it changed alot over the years.
why do nice happy threads always turn in to ladyboy/stealing/murder etc look around the other forums on tv when they post they post relivent answers to the question set ive been here 13 years never going back to the uk not left thailand for 3 years resident visa not over stay seen most of the evolution of samui 1st hand helped in some of it if the building work etc hadnt been done the tourist would not be here only cheap sangson swilling low lifes its still a great place to live and earn a living have a look on the net at world news you are better off here than anywhere else in the world if some of you dont like it then its time for you to go else where as for getting the thread back on track this island is my paradise and could not emagine raising my daughter anywhere else she has a great school 1 minute from the beach can swim in my own pool 365 days a year order a pizza and big mac go see the latest movie at tescos she can play outside on her bike and i dont have to worry about the devients else where in the world. i meet many many people and they would give there right arm to have what we have here on samui so be thankful for what we have guys and girls a paradise with the odd hicup now and again
longest reply ive ever sent thinking maybe the threads finish Thank you. Good post. Someone actually talking about happiness. A few periods and commas might help. but a great post. I hope the foreigners who reside on Samui remember that they still live in a relative paradise. Be happy people.
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Is this in Thailand? Sounds like San Francisco. Over 2M USD
I just got a quote to build a 304 sq. meter home with the highest quality throughout; granite interior/exterior, super-block, etc. etc. for 2.9M and I think the price is too high. This is Thailand; what are people thinking? Are they thinking?
So you can get a top quality home for less than 10K baht per sqm? where is this?
TH
Udon Thani. Super block at a cost of only 20K baht more than using the grade A brick. I've been watching home/building prices here closely over the past year. My home is actually priced a little high; normally you can get a pretty decent home for around 7,400 baht per sqm. I wanted the best in concrete, cement, rebar, etc. and also in the 'finish' items. BTW, I'm going with the pilings driven into the ground (25 required). Electrical will be standard US.
The builder gave me what I initally asked for, the highest quality materials throughout. However, from his materials list I find many areas to save money just by shopping around. He just went to one source to price everything as it's quite time consuming. Example: 6,000 baht toilets when I've found nice quality for 2,000. I'm sure I can find granite cheaper than he's quoted on the materials list. Nice mirrors for the bathrooms at 950 baht when he quoted 1500, etc. etc.
A farang friend here in my village is having his father-in-law (a builder) build a house for him. It's 90% complete. The final price is 1M baht for 136 sqm. The father-in-law only making 250 baht a day to supervise the job. The other workers making 150 baht a day. I don't personally like the floor plan but the house is nice.
I'll just keep laughing at the people who come here, don't do their homework, and pay close to Western prices for houses here........SOMEONE is making a killing!
Now........if only the baht will weaken.........one can only hope.
Nice to know your friend is paying the workers so handsomely, especially his own father-in-law. Is there hat any way possible he could pare his father-in-law's salary down a little bit, to say 175 baht a day? I'm sure that will save him a bundle. Your friend is truly a piece of work.
Stevieff,
You are truly a piece of work. The rates he is paying are pretty much the standard rural village rates for workers. Your post is just underscoring his remarks about how westerners often pay too much to have work done. I pay skilled workers 170 baht per day and unskilled 150 baht per day...I'm the supervisor but if I had to hire one I could probably get one for 200 baht per day so 250 would be a bit on the generous side so he probably could cut his father in laws wage.
Chownah
The message obviously flew over your head. My thai wife and I own many projects in the province of Sakeo. I am biitacutely aware of "prevailing" wages. We always pay higher than "standard rural village rates". Why? Because we have a social and moral conciousness. We understand that paying those type of will never allow the worker to A}Educate his children,
Own a house and and land, and C} Ever dream that tomorrow will be better than today. Those type of wages will, of course, insure your maximum profitability. So let's discuss who's the real piece of work, shall we, Chownah?Sure, I don't mind discussing this at all. Of the three workers I have hired for a year or more at a time two have sent their children through University (one has children but they aren't old enough to go yet...but they will), they all own their own house and land, and they all don't have to dream about their lives improving because their lives are slowly getting better...at least getting better within the realm of physical goods...better motorcycles, tv's, karaokes, home improvements, etc. Maybe you are not aware that frugal people can have great lives on small wages especially when the wroking conditions mesh well with their culture and life styles. My current ongoing worker likes the fact that he works for me because it allows him to stay close to home so he can tend to his cows everyday and thus make some extra cash...and I don't complain when he walks off during the work day to water or move them. You see, many Thai people know that enough cash is enough and after you get enough then the best thing is to develop the right life style which is what a good life is all about afterall.
If I paid more than the prevailing wage people would probably think I was even richer than they do now and this would put more distance between them and me....I'm not here to be their "savior".....to lift them out of their dire poverty....because they might not have alot of money but they are not poor.
Chownah
Yes, I'm quite sure all of this is possible on the measly 150 baht you pay a day. Give me a break, pal.
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Is this in Thailand? Sounds like San Francisco. Over 2M USD
I just got a quote to build a 304 sq. meter home with the highest quality throughout; granite interior/exterior, super-block, etc. etc. for 2.9M and I think the price is too high. This is Thailand; what are people thinking? Are they thinking?
So you can get a top quality home for less than 10K baht per sqm? where is this?
TH
Udon Thani. Super block at a cost of only 20K baht more than using the grade A brick. I've been watching home/building prices here closely over the past year. My home is actually priced a little high; normally you can get a pretty decent home for around 7,400 baht per sqm. I wanted the best in concrete, cement, rebar, etc. and also in the 'finish' items. BTW, I'm going with the pilings driven into the ground (25 required). Electrical will be standard US.
The builder gave me what I initally asked for, the highest quality materials throughout. However, from his materials list I find many areas to save money just by shopping around. He just went to one source to price everything as it's quite time consuming. Example: 6,000 baht toilets when I've found nice quality for 2,000. I'm sure I can find granite cheaper than he's quoted on the materials list. Nice mirrors for the bathrooms at 950 baht when he quoted 1500, etc. etc.
A farang friend here in my village is having his father-in-law (a builder) build a house for him. It's 90% complete. The final price is 1M baht for 136 sqm. The father-in-law only making 250 baht a day to supervise the job. The other workers making 150 baht a day. I don't personally like the floor plan but the house is nice.
I'll just keep laughing at the people who come here, don't do their homework, and pay close to Western prices for houses here........SOMEONE is making a killing!
Now........if only the baht will weaken.........one can only hope.
Nice to know your friend is paying the workers so handsomely, especially his own father-in-law. Is there hat any way possible he could pare his father-in-law's salary down a little bit, to say 175 baht a day? I'm sure that will save him a bundle. Your friend is truly a piece of work.
Stevieff,
You are truly a piece of work. The rates he is paying are pretty much the standard rural village rates for workers. Your post is just underscoring his remarks about how westerners often pay too much to have work done. I pay skilled workers 170 baht per day and unskilled 150 baht per day...I'm the supervisor but if I had to hire one I could probably get one for 200 baht per day so 250 would be a bit on the generous side so he probably could cut his father in laws wage.
Chownah
The message obviously flew over your head. My thai wife and I own many projects in the province of Sakeo. I am biitacutely aware of "prevailing" wages. We always pay higher than "standard rural village rates". Why? Because we have a social and moral conciousness. We understand that paying those type of will never allow the worker to A}Educate his children,
Own a house and and land, and C} Ever dream that tomorrow will be better than today. Those type of wages will, of course, insure your maximum profitability. So let's discuss who's the real piece of work, shall we, Chownah?
Own a house and and land, and C} Ever dream that tomorrow will be better than today. Those type of wages will, of course, insure your maximum profitability. So let's discuss who's the real piece of work, shall we, Chownah?
Thailand Property Depression
in Real Estate, Housing, House and Land Ownership
Posted
My bad, Chownah. I should've used the word depreciate instead of lose. In the scenario I presented, the baht didn't "lose" as you say 900 percent of it's position, it only "depreciated" 900 percent of its position. As an investor, a 900 percent depreciation is a 900 percent "loss", and so that's why I used that word. My apologies for the wrong use of a word.