topfield

FRIENDS : THIS POSTING WITH URL IS FOR ALL EXPAT VISA CARD HOLDERS OF ALL COUNTRIES

If you wish to give your views on the Nationwide please post under the Nationwide thread.

Thaivisa forum quite rightly does not permit duplicate threads on same subject and could remove this posting which would be sad as it gives invaluable info for all expat VISA card holders in Thailand whether from the USA , Australia or wherever.

Thank you for your co-operation.

Hi friend,

This posting is not about one Visa card brand but ALL VISA cards .

For the very first time we now know what the actual VISA baht/pound rate is.

Nationwide/Smashionwide...they have never claimed the give the full VISA rate and do not take a cut for themselves ! Their advertising states no fees no commissions .

TRANSPARENCY for the first time is the name of the game for us VISA cardholders .

Let us hope all VISA cardholders will check the rate they get on their statements with the official VISA rate posted on the above URL and SCREAM LIKE hel_l if they see they are being overcharged !

My dear British Expat Friends

EUREKA......we now finally have the answer. No further uncertainty !!!.

The URL below applies not only to Nationwide but to ALL Visa cards used in Thailand.

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http://www.corporate.visa.com/pd/consumer_...to=THB&rate=0.0

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Now we can no longer be cheated !!

[ps No reason this info will not cover ALL expats whatever their nationality/home currency]

YES THAT IS A VERY IMPORTANT POINT MOST FOREIGNERS DONT REALISE. There is a fiteen percent witholding tax in Thailand and there is NO way of getting out of paying. There used to be a rule that anything under ten thousand baht and you didnt pay, also the gov. savings bank was exempted.

So if you have large amounts of BAHT to place on deposit without tax and want a decent interest rate , you have three options. Place the baht in a bank in Singapore, H.Kong or Cambodia and you will pay ZERO tax on the interest.

So it seems certain that there are just two possibilities as to the exchange rate used

1. the VISA rate fixed in UK /USA OR

2. The Thai banks pool rate

Now how about this found on the Siam Commercial Bank exchange rate page , at the bottom in tiny letters :

FOR CREDIT CARD (CASH ADVANCE RATE) THIS RATE IS APPLICABLE FOR

CREDIT CARD ISSUE BY BANK OUTSIDE THAILAND

FOR CREDIT CARD (CASH ADVANCE) US$1 = 36.99

When this "special rate" is converted to a pound rate , the result is A VERY BAD RATE INDEED

So it seems never use the flex card for cash withdrawal (or purchases) with this bank SCB other than by ATM when the pool rate* [whatever that may be] ..is applied

* pool rate is a rate that it seems ALL the different Thai banks are using for ATM cash withdrawals

Similar idea to pool rate used at the airport where ALL banks use identical rate.

I ve seen it at Changi many times.

The check in staff will not allow you to board a flight to Thailand unless you have a visa or ticket out of Thailand. No point in telling the checkin staff that on arrival there will be no problem at immigration. The Rules are the Rules they will tell you, so leave plenty of time to buy a full price, and therefore refundable, ticket out of Thailand at the airport. May cost ten times budget flight cost be will at least be fully refundable !!

I think everybody above advising would agree on two things francis murphy :

1. A million baht as sinsot or bride price ( dowry is usually money paid to the husband the traditional now historical English payment on marriage and the current Indian custom) is far too much to pay unless the bride is a virgin , comes from a high class family, and has very distinguished educational record . As advised above 100.000-200.000 is the current norm for foreigners to pay .

2. Correct advice can only be given if francismurphy gives us more info. Is the payment a one off or more for regular daily, weekly expenditure ?

Sorry if I did not explain myself well enough folks. I am not expecting to see the sights at Poipet as I am sure you are right when you call it an armpit.

Just wanted to tour the market and look for some interesting goods to buy such as dvd /cd copies which unlike Thailand, are not illegal there as they have no copyright law in Cambodia yet and goods from Vietnam which are quite scarce in Bangkok but prevalent in Cambodia.

Does anyone know the best day to see the market ?

Same exchange rate? Not a surprise as the rate given is the international rate - goodness knows what it's actual name is.

The rate is set by the markets and used by Visa, Mastercard, banks etc You can see how often Bangkok bank change their rates on their web site, up to 8 times a working day and often by next to nothing.

BUT when I made a withdrawal inside Bangkok Bank (they used their little visa machine) and then imediately at the ATM outside the rates did vary - not much but a few decimal points. My gut feeling is that inside the bank I got todays rate, but the ATM gave me tomorrows rate.

I'm surprised it took 3 minutes for an ATM withdrawal to turn up on yopur account, should be instantaneous since the machine won't give you the money unless the NW computer says OK. :-)

from topfield

You may be dead right that the amount available is deducted in seconds ...I wrote three minutes in my posting as thats the time it took me to run back home from the ATM to check online banking on my computer and see the amount available to me had been reduced . Next time I will have my daughter watch constantly my computer screen while I make my ATM withdrawal and have her note down the time of the exact moment the lower amount available was noted on the screen.

Very interesting new point was raised in your posting namely that the rate on a cash withdrawal done manually inside a bank is different to that on a ATM used simultaneously.

May I enquire which was higher.... inside the bank or at the ATM ?

Finally I note you mentioned the VISA rate might in fact be the one being used !

So now we have come full circle as I had always been led to believe by N/W it was the VISA rate they used and not the rate used by the Thai banks, that is applied when one uses ones flex card . That was denied by a N/W clerk in my last message from them when I queried the issue and am taking up the matter with them once more.!!

Dear Friends,

As I am travelling all the way to Poipet, is there any way I can spend a few hours at the market there before returning, using if poss a visa- run service ? IE by going on an early bus and returning on the last bus.

Thank you

ps Whats the best day to enjoy the market there about which I have heard so much ?

SEEMS WE WERE ALL WRONG AND N/W DOES IN FACT USE THE INTERBANK RATE

Fact : Yesterday at 3.30 pm 26 May I withrew 500 baht at both Krung Thai & Siam Commercial ATMs on Sukumvit soi 3 BKK using of course my flex card.

At 9am this morning the amount appeared on my online banking thus taking 18 hours ....again both with identical exchange rate of ......... BHT 71.63. !!!

Checking just now on the SCB website what their highest rate actually was at 3.15pm yesterday 26 May , it was 71.07 for the transfer rate !!

Yes friends..... the rate flex gave was the full interbank rate as shown on the Yahoo finance webpage at 3.20 pm yesterday !! EXPLAIN THAT .... I CAN'T !!

Some people get things so wrong.

As Totster said NW do not make the 2.5% and above charge made by all other UK cards (except Liverpool Victoria) and so are at least 2.5% "cheaper" than any other card. In addition the 2.5% often has a minimum of £3 per transaction, even if you only withdraw £10.

So using NW to get 7,000 baht (at 70 baht to £1) and NW debit you with £100 - all other banks debit £102.50 minimum. That's at least 4 bottles of beer.

Then you have the exchange rate. Topfiled: 1.5% of an exchange rate of 70 baht to £1 is just over 1 baht not 50 sateng (spelling?). I believe you get the telegraphic transfer rate offered by the bank that operates the ATM. In Thailand this is around 0.5 baht less than the actual exchange rate. If on the other hand you sell baht you will pay about 0.5 baht more than the actual exchange rate - this gives a spread between the buy and sell rate of about 1.5%. This is a profit to the Thai bank and the reason they are willing to let you use their ATM machine for no further charge. Don't forget many ATM withdrawals in Thailand attract a charge of a few baht.

So using a NW card does 'cost' about 0.75% of the exchange rate to give a profit to the Thai bank. NW do not make any charge at all.

For information you will get the exchange rate set the day after your withdrawal. Looking at the NW web site and you will find the initial amount deducted from your account is always a little too much, and is corrected on day 3 or 4 when it stops being a trasaction in progress and becomes a withdrawal (or words to that effect)

from topfield :

Thanks. Clearly you have a very good understanding about the flex card (as people call it)

Of course 50 stang (satang ) is not one and a haf percent percent ! It is the figure quoted by different people in their postings above as being acceptable/being charged . Yes fifty stang is normally the amount banks pay below the tt rate. Spot on....except change offices such as Vasu and Super Rich (Bkk) sometimes offer note rates just 25 stang less than the tt rate if 50 pound notes.

Back to flexcard ; Yes , I have also heard that each bank fixes its own rate on its ATM'S so made an experiment on Sukumvit Soi 3 last week withdrawing 500 baht at six different bank's ATMS in ten mins.

When the rates came through the following day ALL ARRIVED TOGETHER ANDTHE RATES WERE ALL IDENTICAL !!

Its a million to one chance that each bank with its own different rate sheet sheet should have have same rate taking same time ! It would indicate that the different Thai banks have a joint pool and like the banks at the airport fix one rate for all banks' ATM'S !!.

You were also spot on about the pre exchange rate ! I timed the time it took from when the money was withdrawn at the ATM until it showed up on internet banking as a deduction from "amount available" ..it was LESS THAN THREE MINUTES ! As to when the final rate appeared on on internet banking it, varied from 18 hours to three days !

So up to now around half of those posting believe there is a hidden charge and half do not but amazingly all accept that the rate can be one and a half percent or fifty stang less than interbank which they.... as typically hardened sceptical Brits believe, just cannot be obtainable.

Sorry folks but interbank rates ARE obtainable even by semi serious investors.

Yes the baht can be traded at, as an example, 71.31 -71.36 bid /offer.

THESE ARE SPREADS NATIONWIDE CAN EASILY OBTAIN and in fact may be obtaining .

The big question is ...are they passing on these rates to their customers ????

see http://www.fxstreet.com/nou/graph/sensefra...tesnetdania.asp for interbank rates.

All this discussion is beside the point however. Nobody yet on this forum ...its far too soon anyway ...has come up with the answer as to how and when N/W fix their ATM exchange rates !

If we could find out this basic information to which I honestly believe we are entitled to, we would be in a position to judge definitively whether Nationwide are giving the market rate without fees, loadings charges etc which they claim they are doing...or perhaps adding a nice fat turn for themselves ??? At the moment we are just not in a position to judge so lets hope some expat living here has discovered the answer and posts it on this forum for all to see..

Exactly...that is probably true and thats the reason I am trying to get at the truth !

Nationwide up to now just will not give the facts or reveal WHEN the conversion takes place.

If we can get the answer it would be a simple matter to check what the interbank rate was at that time and what rate n/w used ......and then we would know if they are adding a hidden cash withdrawal charge or not.

I withdrew a large cash sum at a BKK ATM on 25 May. The rate has now come through at 71.77 and dated 25 May.. Checking with Yahoo finance , that day the rate was never below 72 and averaged 72.30, so it does seem they add a hidden charge as even the travellers cheque rate that afternoon was 71.85 !!

Anybody else can shed light on this matter ? Are we being subjected to hidden charges ??

.

We Brits know that the Nationwide debit card is unique with no charges, commissions, loadings, or fees and the best exchange rate available at the time..

But does anyone know what happens after we use our card here in Thailand at an ATM ?

I was told and always believed that the amount is immediately sent on to VISA UK where the baht are exchanged for sterling and the total debited to ones Nationwide account which is viewable on line within 48 hours max of the cash withdrawal.

Today however , in response to a query, N/W informed me that what in fact happens is the Thai bank that owns the ATM does the exchange which is then passed on as a debit to N/W.

Does anyone know the true facts ?

Your reply much appreciated

Regarding taxation, there is a 40 percent Inheritance tax in the UK , and zero percent in Italy! Before being able to advise therefore, the benefactor MUST give details of his/her domicile ( NOT residence as domicile is the deciding factor) If domiciled in the UK the monies applied to this trust MAY be taxable and be considered as part of hisher estate and could be taxed at the full 40 percent depending on the amount left by the deceased etc etc.

Investors took the hint and immediately bought the baht ! it rose a full half of one percent !

The pound dropped from 72.25 this morning at 8.30 to 71.90.by 9am !!

The lesson : do not buy on good news and sell on bad ......but do the opposite !

You can check the above by going to SCB website and their currency xchange rate page where they show each update and the time.

NOTE THE TEN MINUTE UPDATES WHEN THE BAHT WAS RISING !! WHEN IT FELL A SIMILAR AMOUNT DURING THE HOLIDAYS LAST WEEK THEY HELD THE POOR RATE FOR FOUR WHOLE DAYS !

The risks you mention above have been posted many times before Samran and each time shown not to hold water !

Anyhow, nobody has access to your money other than funds destined for the recipient. as the a/c is specially set up for the purpose . Only monies placed there for withdrawal in thailand are in theory at risk but in practice not at risk as password needed to withdraw.

Secondly who says you should draw a thousand pounds cash countervalue in one go ??

Can fund the a/c with a fiver a day for the recipient if you want .

The reason for the closure was given. Montenegro is a small country in Europe and has no connection whatever with Thailand.

Spot on!!!

Dear Friend,

Montenegro, after having been occupied by foreign forces 90 years ago has been permitted to decide its own destiny by means of a national referendum.

Were Thailand to do the same.....,and Montenegro shows it can happen .....then all the destruction and killing would stop and Thailand would become a much safer and happier place throughout the whole Kingdom.

Its sad you cannot see the relevance to Thailand of the self determination Montenegro was permitted to enjoy, nor can you see why this matter could not be openly referred in this forum which is governed by Thai law where discussion of this subject might be frowned upon in many quarters.

[stop this thread if you so wish but at least give the true reason....political sensibilities and not irrelevance.... as this posting is entirely and completely relevant ]

I am astonished by the ignorance of Thai history and culture shown by "cdnvic."

Not knowing or understanding the political historical situation in Thailand he has just closed a topic which is the headlines today in every single newspaper in Thailand.

Yes, close this subject if you feel it affects political sensibilities in Thailand...you would be fully justified. However this topic concerns probably the most serious problem in the country....a problem that has to be solved by all people of good will in the Kingdom.

Clearly you are not aware which country's army marched into which state 94 years ago and conquered the people with the result millions are suffering from every single day ???

Relevance ? Certainly . A referendum was held yesterday allowing the people to decide which country they wished to belong to and/or independance. It took place in Montenegro

Close this also dear cdn vic but by doing so you are stopping people from learning about the most pressing problem there is today in Thailand and discussing finding a solution to that problem.

CONGRATULATIONS MONTENEGRO ! After ninety years this brave country will regain its independance after a national referendum.. Taken over by the Austrian army, King Nikola was not permitted to return after the end of the First World War and his country became incorporated into Yugoslavia.

Well, unless we have been indoctrinated, we know of another state nearer home, taken over by an invading army after a carve up with the British Empire.

Let us pray they may also be permitted a referendum to decide their own future even though its been nearer 97 years since they had their own government.

[sorry...due to political censorship unable to name that state]

THE FOLLOWING METHOD IS TOP SECRET. DO NOT TELL ANYONE ! WERE THIS METHOD TO BECOME KNOWN IT WILL CERTAINLY BE STOPPED OR CURTAILED .

You get a Nationwide cash card and post it to your contact in Thailand.

Whenever you want your contact to receive funds, you credit the Nationwide cash card a/c in the UK ...by online banking ok and phone your contact to say he/ she can use the cash card at a local atm and the amount available to withdraw .

NO FEES NO CHARGES AND INTERBANK RATE . ALSO NO RISK

Dear friend COLPYAT,

So you think this is a totally obscure topic ?

How long have you lived in Thailand ? Do you have Thai friends ?

Do you discuss Thai politics with your Thai friends ?

Do you get your info mainly from the Bangkok Post & Nation ?

If the answer to the above is yes, you just do not know how wrong you are !

The use of totally non phonetic names which bear little or no resemblance to the true name as used by Thais creates a huge invisible cultural barrier between Thais and non Thais.

It is indeed a very very serious matter.

Next time you meet with Thai friends and talk abour SONDEE you will be met by total incomprehension. Ask about BIDDAYA ( finance minister) and you will get wierd looks.

And this not only effects Foreigners talking to Thais but Thais talking to foreigners......should a Thai mention TEVAGUN you will not have a clue who he is talking about as the name you are familiar with and know is .....DRACULA sorry DEVAKULA !

Dear friend ...this is a very serious matter which damages Anglo-Thai cultural relations !

To our friend JDINASIA.

Sorry to contradict you but the name of the Head of the Thai army {surname Boonyaratglin) is spelt exactly the same as our firebrand publisher friend ( surname Limtongkun) so it seems the Post and Nation break their golden rule of using ancient incomprehensible spelling when it suits them.

THE SOLUTION : as used by the Public Relations Dpt, [sadly sometimes only] Quote :

'

Deputy Governor Thani Plookcharoen (ธานี ปลูกเจริญ) . THIS WAY ONE CANNOT GO WRONG

Dear friend COLPYAT,

So you think this is a totally obscure topic ?

How long have you lived in Thailand ? Do you have Thai friends ?

Do you discuss Thai politics with your Thai friends ?

Do you get your info mainly from the Bangkok Post & Nation ?

If the answer to the above is yes, you just do not know how wrong you are !

The use of totally non phonetic names which bear little or no resemblance to the true name as used by Thais creates a huge invisible cultural barrier between Thais and non Thais.

It is indeed a very very serious matter.

Next time you meet with Thai friends and talk abour SONDEE you will be met by total incomprehension. Ask about BIDDAYA ( finance minister) and you will get wierd looks.

And this not only effects Foreigners talking to Thais but Thais talking to foreigners......should a Thai mention TEVAGUN you will not have a clue who he is talking about as the name you are familiar with and know is .....DRACULA sorry DEVAKULA !

Dear friend ...this is a very serious matter which damages Anglo-Thai cultural relations !

To our friend JDINASIA.

Sorry to contradict you but the name of the Head of the Thai army {surname Boonyaratglin) is spelt exactly the same as our firebrand publisher friend ( surname Limtongkun) so it seems the Post and Nation break their golden rule of using ancient incomprehensible spelling when it suits them.

'Deputy Governor Thani Plookcharoen (ธานี ปลูกเจริญ)

I have been campaigning against the English language Thai press's spelling of Thai names .

When printed in the newspapers : as pronounced, these names CANNOT be recognised or understood by Thais. The classic example is the Governor of the Bank of Thailand. The name as written by the Bangkok Post rhymes with Dracula...DEVAKULA. His name is in fact TEVA-GUN..!!

THERE ARE 60 MILLION THAIS. NOT A SINGLE ONE WOULD KNOW WHO DEVAKULA WAS !!!

The reasoning behind this strange " transliteration " was provided in a posting a few weeks ago.

"I don't know in which era it was decided, probably Rama 5 or 6, but it was decided to allocate an English letter, or letters to every Thai letter even though several Thai letters have the same consonant sound, though different tonal rules. The newspapers have to follow these rules "

OK , friends. Why then is the name of the top general in the Thai army spelt

S-O-N-T-H-I IE phonetically correct but for the ubiquitous uneccessary "h"

Yet the leader of the PAD is spelt S-O-N-D=H-I, incorrect phonetically ??

Or should I be addressing this question to the Editor of the Bangkok Post/Nation ?? [ They wont discuss the matter anyway..have tried]