Silomfarang

REJECTED:

Day two in Penang. I went to the Thai consulate and was there at 2.30 pm. About 40 people were ahead of me in the queue, which snaked through the garden. It took about 20 minutes for me to reach the window.

The officer gave me the application and my passport back and said I could not get a tourist visa because I "did not have ticket". He gave me my 110 ringit fee back, which was more than I had expected. He then said I could get 30 days on arrival in Bangkok. (He said that but I can't imagine he took the time to calculate if I actually had enough days left on my six month quota to get it)

Maybe I was wrong about the officer inside. Maybe he is not Thai but Malay? Another older guy inside looked Indian, and there were a couple of people who looked Thai.

I said "thank you" and left.

There used to be one or two Indian guards outside the consulate, chain smoking guys in civilian clothes. They were replaced by a professional security guard. He wished me "happy new year" when I walked out.

They have put up more posters about the new rules. They have one on the hut where they want you to sign your name in the visitor's book. The exact wording is: "The original air ticket and the proof of hotel reservation must be presented when applying for tourist visa".

The consulate has not said what they mean by "original air ticket", but from what they say it seems they want a ticket "home". "Home" seems to be the country your passport is from.

Yesterday in Georgetown I saw the visa agent in "Banana" was busy late with foreigners. I heard some had documents faxed to satisfy the new rules. I didn't use an agent but went myself.

I saw several foreigners get rejected at the consulate, like myself. The telling sign is when they hand the money back. Nobody made any scenes, apart from a Russian who got a bit loud and said he didn't understand what he had done wrong.

I had only one previous tourist visa in my passport. Hence I was not affected by the max-three visas rule, which others have written about here on thaivisa.

I will fly back to Bangkok now and see what happens when I arrive at the airport. I will try to calculate if I have enough "free" days left in the last six month period to get a 30 day stamp. I can never be sure how Thai Immigation sees this, their logic is not the same as mine. Maybe I will get 7 days.

I am writing this from an Internet cafe in Penang. I went to the Thai consulate today, and the line stretched from the application window and down to the gate. From the number slips I could tell they received over 200 applications before closing at noon.

Two freshly home-printed signs were posted at the consulate. One was on the board facing the line of people, the other was on the application window. Both said the same: they want "original air ticket" and "hotel reservation" for tourist visa applications.

They gave everyone the same spiel. "Now must have ticket home and hotel". A bit of arguing went on with young backpacker types as everyone tried to explain why they didn't have this.

I said I had not bought a ticket home yet. I also said I didn't need a hotel since I had a condo in Bangkok. This didn't register. The officer pointed to the sign above on the window and repeated the new requirements.

The consulate took my application and 110 ringit but the officer said my application could be rejceted. In that case, said the officer, maybe I could get a 30 day on arrival. Or maybe I should go home to my own country. He said the same to several other people I overheard.

The officer recognised me from earlier visa runs. I didn't argue but said it might be the last time I was in Penang since I considered moving to Malaysia. The Thai officer said "yes, you come here, it is better in Malaysia you can get up to 10 year visa". He then told his boss in Thai what I had said and they both laughed.

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I am writing this as a service to other people on the board. From previous experience I expect to be called a liar, and/or told I am an undesirable visa runner who should get his act together. I accept this as my just punishment for trying to share the news.

This was exactly the one we saw coming through on June 1:

I saw that when I came in the end of May as well.

Yes, this the yellow note they had all over the place when I came to Bangkok Suv airport this weekend.

But I was never asked for any onward ticket by Immigration.

I arrived without any visa and got a 30 day visa exemption stamp. I have a European passport and arrived on a flight from EU territory.

They did NOT count the days spent in Thailand on previous visits as they had done earlier. The officer just looked at the latest tourist visa I got from Penang (now expired) and nothing else.

Selective enforcement of the onward ticket rule? It certainly looks that way. I had a printout of my next Air Asia booking out of Thailand ready but didn't need it this time.

The "brilliant" thing about the 180 day block thing is that it will catch many tourists unaware (real tourists, not visa runners who live in Thailand and who might be more likely to read this).

There will be more shouting scenes at the Immigration desk at the airport on arrival. There will be even more shouting scenes at departure for those who are going to overstay without realising their stamp was, say 3 days instead of 30. The overstay fee for 27 days is 13 500 B per person. Try to explain that to an Indian family of eight.

I can only congratulate Thai authorities with their successful scheme to piss off visitors and give Thailand a bad reputation abroad.

If Immigration want to make life even harder for foreigners they can enforce the "must show sufficient funds" rule. Ie a visitor must prove that he has enough money to support himself while he is in Thailand. That would mean cash, bank statements etc.

You think Immigration would never do that? Many thought they would not do what they have done so far either.

And then there is the "improper dress" rule. They haven't enforced that one since hippie days when some long-haired scruffy Westerners were denied entry. But what is improper and not is up to each officer! If they dust off that rule we can have some great fun at the borders.

Its the law, people say. Rules are rules. The officers were doing their job etc.

Rules are not rules in Thailand. If they had followed the rules many of us would not be in Thailand at all.

They could have denied me entry numerous times because I buy my air tickets in Bangkok and hence don't have an onward ticket when I arrive in Thailand.

They could have denied me entry because I routinely stay more than six months a year on visa exemption/tourist visas. This mostly forgotten rule was kind of enforced 4-5 years ago, but not usually against Western passport holders.

Knowing the rules is not enough. They have all kinds of rules. You have to know what they actually are likely to do.

Some people said in this forum that Immigration would not actually enforce the 90 days rule. They said it was too time-consuming to calculate, that it was too complicated, something that would be soon forgotten. Well, in my case they did enforce it. It makes for one of the more unusual scenes in international air travel when Thai immigration officers gather to count and recount and count again.

I think I was unlucky getting this older, grumpy officer who spoke no English. I have seen this guy before. He doesn't like his job. Would the younger, friendlier ones have done the same? Do all officers enforce the 90 day rule, and if they do, in the same way?

I hope other travellers can report about this.

One thing is reading about the new visa restrictions. It is quite another thing when the restrictions are on you.

When returning from Malaysia last week I had not bothered with a re-entry permit on my extended tourist visa (60+30 days), which had a couple of weeks left. I hoped whatever I would get on arrival would be enough to last till Songkran, when I was leaving Thailand again anyway. They would not really dig into every detail of my last 180 days in and out of Thailand, would they?

They would. At the airport in Bangkok two officers, sometimes assisted by a third, spent ten minutes on my passport. They talked, counted aloud, counted on their fingers, used a calculator and used a laminated card with numbers in a table. Then they handed me my passport stamped "permitted to stay until 29th of March". This was seven days, or rather six days and two hours since it was late in the day.

Even if I was aware this could happen it felt like a slap in the face.

I didn't protest. I never said anything while they were doing their counting routine either. I was a well dressed polite farang with a used Penang tourist visa in my passport. But they managed to calculate that I had been in Thailand more than 90 days on visa exemptions the last 180 days. That's my guess, as they never explained anything.

I don't know if their calculation was correct or not. I have been in and out of Thailand half a dozen times the last few months. They should subtract days I spent outside of Thailand but I am not sure if they did that. (I wonder if they took the easier route of checking if I had spent 90 days in Thailand on a proper visa, which is not the same. )

Anyway, they applied the new regime on me and the older guy who was in charge of operation finger counting seemed to delight in doing it. I was less delighted. As an unmarried person under 50 my best option now seems to be the next flight to Penang.

My application was for a 60 day tourist visa, single entry. I wrote "holiday" as reason for going to Thailand. I had four 30-day entry stamps in my passport since the 1st of October, making me a back to back visa exemption on arrival person, but this didn't seem to matter. Nor did it matter that I had just arrived in Malaysia from Thailand on an obvious visa run.

How can you have four 30 days stamps since October? Where did you get the fourth stamp? Three 30 days stamps would still be legal since it no more than 90 days per 180 days on 30 day visa-on-arrival stamps and you will still be able to apply for a 60 days tourist visa which is not against the new law. So, if you really have a fourth 30 days stamp then you were lucky since then...

I did not use the full 30 days for each stamp. Once I only stayed in Thailand for 15 days before leaving the country. When I came back I got another 30 day stamp even if I had three already.

So my guess is that you didn't exceed the 90 days limits in 180 days using 30 days stamp which is legal. Yes, I remember now, they are not counting the number of stamps but the number of days you actually stayed. They were right giving you the 60 days visa according to the new law. Your next visa run will be the +30 days extension when you 60 days visa expires. This is legal.

When I arrived at Don Muang for the 4th time since the 1st of October they marked my 30 day entry stamp with a red pen. The three first 30 day entry stamps were marked with green.

When the 60 days on my tourist visa are up I will go to Immigration in Bangkok, pay 1900 baht and get it extended by another 30 days till a total of 90. I hope this still works.

My application was for a 60 day tourist visa, single entry. I wrote "holiday" as reason for going to Thailand. I had four 30-day entry stamps in my passport since the 1st of October, making me a back to back visa exemption on arrival person, but this didn't seem to matter. Nor did it matter that I had just arrived in Malaysia from Thailand on an obvious visa run.

How can you have four 30 days stamps since October? Where did you get the fourth stamp? Three 30 days stamps would still be legal since it no more than 90 days per 180 days on 30 day visa-on-arrival stamps and you will still be able to apply for a 60 days tourist visa which is not against the new law. So, if you really have a fourth 30 days stamp then you were lucky since then...

I did not use the full 30 days for each stamp. Once I only stayed in Thailand for 15 days before leaving the country. When I came back I got another 30 day stamp even if I had three already.

Was there any talk of them limiting themselves to 100 customers per day? I was told this by someone I know who was there in December and did not get a visa renewed because of it.

Nobody said anything about that.

If I could ask, what was the rough total cost of the visa run including transport(flight?) and visa cost? Thanks,

Zach.

Cost of my trip was over 10 000 baht. Maybe around 12 000.

5 000 ticket on Air Asia Bangkok - KL return,

500 airport tax in Bangkok,

1500 per night budget hotel (two nights),

1000 baht fee to the Thai embassy,

the rest was taxies, restaurants etc.

I have always given my address in Thailand on visa application forms earlier. But on the form they gave me it said "address of guarantor in Thailand" or something similar. I don't have a guarantor. I could not see they asked for my address - and I was prepared to give them that.

This is from memory. It is always possible I misunderstood something. I don't have a copy of the application I gave them, otherwise I could check and tell you exactly what the form said.

I checked the opening hours of the Thai embassy in KL before I went. It has changed compared to what I read in this forum. The opning hours are:

Apply for visa 09.30 to 11.30

Pick up visa 11.30 to 12.30

I had read the embassy was open for applications till 12 and thought I had plenty of time when I arrived. I barely made it in as the last one at 11.28. I was number 126 that day, according to my ticket. 46 people were in front of me in line.

Another correction to what I have read here earlier: they only want one passport photo. I gave them two and one was returned right away as not needed.

The lady behind the counter asked me where in Thailand I would stay. I said Bangkok and she wrote BKK on my application. This was the only question she had.

My application was for a 60 day tourist visa, single entry. I wrote "holiday" as reason for going to Thailand. I had four 30-day entry stamps in my passport since the 1st of October, making me a back to back visa exemption on arrival person, but this didn't seem to matter. Nor did it matter that I had just arrived in Malaysia from Thailand on an obvious visa run.

I went to the embassy the next day. The security guards at the gate hand out the results so the visa officers don't have to face the music when someone is denied. I noticed Western passport holders were in a stack marked "A". Malaysians, Indians, Africans et al were "B", a much bigger stack.

They gave me my 60 day tourist visa, single entry.

I know (distantly) one of the victimes of this robbery scheme. I would be grateful if someone could send me the photos of the suspects. If I can get their identity independently confirmed I will consider putting their pictures up in my blog to warn people. (What are the crooks going to do about it? Sue me?)

My email is [email protected]

The blog is at http://gaythailand.blogspot.com

Thank you for your help

Silom Farang