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BertM
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Posts posted by BertM
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Talk about "beating a dead horse". Yes, the 4 embassies stopped issuing income letters in Dec 2018. But, don't think for a minute, that any of those embassies ever verified incomes by contacting the sources. The embassies merely issued affidavits based on sworn statements or based on someone providing some paper documents which could have been legitimate or not... The horse is dead and there's no bringing it back to life, so, the only option now is to comply with Immigration's requirements. Feel sorry for those who are having trouble meeting the requirements...
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16 minutes ago, Langsuan Man said:
I certainly would not argue anything with Ubonjoe, yet it appears that they will not even let you apply for an "O" Visa in the US unless for family visit or volunteering: Here from Thai Embassy Washington. and New York Consulate:
So my confusion is where is this "over 50" for an "O" option available ?
You can get a Non-O visa in Thailand at Immigration, then get 1-yr extensions based on retirement, marriage, family, etc. I came in with visa exempt stamp, went to IM within 15 days, applied for Non-O based on retirement and have been getting extensions ever since. The embassies don't tell you that, do they...
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13 minutes ago, Mutt Daeng said:
It's not true that you have to get your initial Non-O visa from your home country. You can get it from nearby countries.
You are correct... You can also get a Non-O visa at Immigration within Thailand. I got my Non-O visa at Jomtien.
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1 hour ago, JTXR said:I had visited Thailand many times and loved it, so decide to retired here. I came on a Non-Imm O-A three years ago.
I'm not blaming anyone but, after I came, in the past three years.....
1) I can no longer get an income affidavit from my embassy (even though I can show valid evidence of official state pension income).
2) CW now wants a TM-30 either from landlords, family, friends, or myself every time I change where I spend the night.
3) TI may in future want me to purchase overpriced and essentially worthless health cover (I'm over 65) the next time I extend my permission to stay.
As I say, I'm not blaming anyone. Things changes; that's life. But if #3 above proves to be the case, it is a bridge too far. Just speaking for myself personally, all together, in the past three years Thailand has become a less attractive place to retire compared to the other alternatives.Very well stated... if, in the future, pre-Oct 31 O-A visa holders are required to purchase insurance, then you have the option of getting a Non-O provided they don't require insurance for those too. I had a Non-O and am extending based on marriage, but if I'm ever required to get insurance, then it will be a bridge too far for me also. I will not be forced to buy another insurance when I have life-time coverage from my previous employer. I will simply leave with no hard feelings... As you said, things change...
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1 hour ago, Beggar said:
I don't believe this because at so many places you are greeted with "Hello sexy man". I never had a similar experience anywhere else.
You are correct in that most Thais are very friendly & courteous especially when first greeting you. I have been greeted with the same "welcome" or as you say "sexy man" many times. But, in general, once the ladies figure out that someone isn't going to spend any money, then that friendliness kind of goes away. And, who can blame them. Why should they waste time on someone who isn't going to spend money. I have seen it and have been told by many Thais what they think of the cheap Charlies (like my 65 yr old friend) who acts like he has plenty of money and acts in an uppity manner, but doesn't spend money. Thais can sense arrogance. So, it all depends on how you treat people as to how they treat you... I for one, am a very generous and kind person, so I don't get the feeling that any Thais are talking bad about me behind my back like they do about my uppity friend.
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Mr. Joe,
It's a personal choice and it's up to you. As a first-timer, I would advise getting help, then next time you will know exactly what to do. Some offices can make it difficult on you. Many expats use agents just for the convenience while others do it themselves to save money. There's no right or wrong way... To each his own...
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Just now, 1 said:
Yes I have all that covered thanks.
The reason I'm going through this process is because I'm an Australian citizen and the income letter is no longer an option.
As I said, the 2 years I did my extension in Jomtien, they never asked for supporting pension documents. This year, I did mine in Bangkok using the 400k in bank for marriage. Maybe, others who did monthly in Jomtien recently will reply with first-hand info.
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10 minutes ago, 1 said:
Retirement
You do know that you have to transfer the monies each month into a Thai bank, right? You cannot just show them your overseas income. The only other way is to get an income letter from your embassy.
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24 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:
Mixed reports on this whether proof of income source from a pension is required. Problem for people 50 to retirement age
Jomtien never requested supporting pension documents from me when I did my extensions there. As you said, quite a problem since most people who are just over age 50 do not have pensions yet. I would think the Thai bank book & bank letter would be the only thing they would need now unless you're submitting an income letter from embassy...
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Your income doesn't have to be a pension. Your proof of income for Thai immigration is showing that you have transferred 65,000 THB or more each month into a Thai bank (a bank book & bank letter is required by Thai immigration). If you're a citizen of one of the countries that are still doing income letters, then you can get the income letter from your embassy and submit the income letter to Thai immigration.
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16 hours ago, kralledr said:
That was so easy, i not understand why a lot of people say is hard or even use an agent, went there today 13h00, in and out in 20 minutes, immigration came 2 hours later, made only 3 pictures and gone...
It's because you're in Hua-Hin... at CW in Bangkok, sometimes it takes the whole day at IM and for marriage extensions it takes 2 trips to IM, whereas using an agent, you're in & out, no waiting, then the agent goes back for the 2nd trip for final stamp. And, for those who live in small towns, sometimes they have to drive several hours just to get to an IM office, so it's much easier and more convenient to use an agent. It's not hard to understand when you actually think about it... And, for others who have more money than they can ever spend, they choose to use agents just for the convenience... There's no right or wrong, it's a personal choice. To each his own...
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Nice you're still enjoying working at age 64. I was fortunate to be offered a nice retirement package at age 59 after 40 years with the same company, so now I'm enjoying not working... the money is not an issue for me either... Staying busy does help keep you feeling young regardless if it's working or doing other activities.
Good luck and enjoy...
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1 hour ago, Mango Bob said:
If I left Thailand when my current extension of stay expires (Non O/A 13 years ago) where would be the best country and consulate to obtain a Non O visa?
You could also leave and come back on visa exempt for 30 days and apply for a 90-day Non O visa in Thailand using 800k in bank, then get 1 year extension after that. You may need to show that the 800k came from abroad. Best to ask Ubonjoe. I did my 90-day Non O & 1 year extension in Jomtien.
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1 hour ago, Pib said:Today I went to the Chaeng Wattana (Bangkok) immigration Office (my servicing office) to ask about the insurance requirement. Like will it apply to me....I'm now on my 11th retirement extension of stay with an underlying OA Visa from 2008.
I got to set down with an immigration officer in the Long Stay Section which is the section where a person goes to apply for their annual extension of stay....like I have done 11 times with the 11th time being just a few months ago.
I ask the officer I want to know if the insurance requirement applies in my situation...want more info on the insurance requirement. I do not say I have an OA visa from Christmas past. The officer looks at my numerous extension of stay stamps in my passport and looks for the supporting visa in the passport. When she sees it's an OA visa she makes a facial expression indicating she going to give me bad news. But instead she says follow me and leads me over to another immigration officer to talk to. I assume this officer to be of the supervisory type as she's in her 50's and occupying the desk that other immigration officers take docs to for final review and approval....final sign off...like the boss for the section.
- For the next 10 to 15 minutes I talk to this officer and she spoke pretty good English. Once again this officer started scanning thru my numerous extension of stay stamps....back to the OA visa stamp. And when seeing the OA visa from 2008 there is the bad news is coming facial expression again. She said, "Yes I will be required to have insurance to extend again." The new requirement applies all all OA visas issued "before, on, or after" 31 Oct 2019. No grandfathering....it even applied to my 2008 OA visa.
- During those 10 to 15 minutes I asked the question at least 3 times in various forms like pointing out my OA visa is from 2008...."an old visa"....I've got 11 extension of stay since that 2008 OA visa expired---she said that didn't make a difference. The new rule did not apply just to OAs issued after 31 Oct 2019....it applied to all OAs...past, current, and future.
- She said my only option to avoid the insurance requirement was to switch to a Non-O visa. We talk for 5 or so minutes on the two ways to do that...either at a Thai embassy outside of Thailand or going the Exempt to Non O method within Thailand.
- So, now that I have had the chance to set down with a supervisory level immigration officer at CW in the very section that processes extension application....the section that has given me 11 extensions of stay so far, I'm fully, 100% convinced the insurance requirement applies to OAs issued "before, on, or after 31 Oct 2019." No grandfathering. And I will need to get a Non-O before my current extension of stay expires in late 2020 in order to avoid the insurance requirement.
- Yeap, I'm now 100% convinced. And what I was told at CW is in sync with what some other immigration offices like Chiang Mai are telling people. At least now I will not be reading hundreds of more posts where different people are expressing their opinion on this issue since I've now heard it from the horse's mouth--a CW supervisory level immigration officer....my servicing immigration office. Didn't get the answer I wanted to hear, but I guess that is life.
- This change is surely going to have a huge negative impact on many especially since the new requirement does not accept foreign medical insurance....foreign medical insurance that is better and lower cost than Thai insurance.
Pib,
Would you be so kind as to start a new Topic with this exact story (cut & paste) so that people do not need to read thru 330 posts... And, thanks so much for taking the initiative and time to go do this... Kindly...
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Only time will tell... in next few months, we should start seeing actual first-hand reports on whether it applies to extensions for those who had (pre-Oct 31) O-A visas when those people go for their extensions. It will take more than a year from now to learn if insurance will be required for extensions for the new O-A visas (post-Oct 31) when those people start going for their extensions in Nov 2020. Let's hope for the best for everyone's sake...
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30 minutes ago, john terry1001 said:
I don't think I'm wrong.
Firstly, I read section 6 of the police order as saying ' anybody who ENTERS Thailand on a non-immigrant O-A Visa must buy health insurance that covers the length of stay in the KINGDOM - not for the length of validity of the visa.
So, after entering with an O-A visa when getting an extension based on retirement you have continued your length of stay in the KINGDOM and could well be required to continue with the insurance until you physically exit Thailand, not when the O-A visa expires.
Which appears to be confirmed by what Tanoshi was told.
Maybe what Max69xl (see below) was referring to when he said "all retirement extensions" was extensions for those who previously had Non O visas. In that case he is correct... I am not sure about extensions for those who previously had O-A visas before Oct 31. Only time will tell... in the next few months we should start hearing first-hand accounts whether it applies to extensions for those who previously had O-A visas before Oct 31.30 minutes ago, john terry1001 said:36 minutes ago, Max69xl said:He's wrong, it's not about all retirement extensions. Just the O-A.
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Time will tell... in the next few months, we should start seeing actual first-hand reports on whether it's only for new Non O-A visas or whether it applies to those who are applying for an extension who had (pre-Oct 31) O-A visas or whether it will also be applied to those who are applying for extensions (retirement) who previously had Non-O visas. Will hope for the best for everyone's sake...
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You still need to comply with financial requirements such as having 800k/400k in a Thai bank or transferring 65k per month, every month even when you're not in Thailand.
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1 hour ago, Jingthing said:
Did you contact him in the last few days?
Yes. I called him on Friday because I am leaving this week and wanted to make sure I wouldn't have any problems when I return.
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2 hours ago, Tuvoc said:At this point the qualified Thai lawyers and English lawyer at Integrity Legal say otherwise. I'd take their opinion over the non-lawyers in this forum. However even they can't be certain, it is all down to how immigration officials interpret and apply it.
The attorney at agency I use said it is only for Non O-A Visas and "not" Non O visas and "not" for extensions of Non O visas. I trust him over any other law firm because he deals with Immigration in Bangkok every week and he would know if his clients would need to start having insurance next month. Having said that, the gov't could always add that requirement in the future to other classes of visas, but that would only be speculation at this point.
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30 minutes ago, JimmerJJ said:
I guess some Thai banks have a Passport true copy requirement and others don't and it varies? My USA retirement incomes come to about 140,000 baht a month and 500K in savings so I hope I can find someone to help me.
I private messaged you with the agency I use in Bangkok. It's against forum rules to post those details on open forum. You should think about letting O-A expire and then get a Non O visa for 90 days and then get 1 year extension based on retirement. That way, you won't get caught in the insurance issue. The agency can certainly help with opening the bank account and take care of the new Non O visa & 1 year extension. Wish you luck...
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1 hour ago, JimmerJJ said:
Thanks for the info Mike N and Jingthing.
JimmerJJ,
check your messages by clicking on envelope at top right of your screen...
I opened bank account at KBank & Krungsri without having to have certified copy...
Also, if you're worried about the O-A, you can get a Non O for 3 mths then get 1 year extension based on 800k in bank. No need to extend on the O-A especially if they may make you have insurance.
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2 hours ago, AussieBob18 said:
Well <deleted> me - I might actually be right about it being applied to Retirement Extensions.
I wouldn't worry to much about hearsay. You never know who the pool guy talked to at IM or whether the person understood the question or even understands the new police order. I will believe it (mandatory medical coverage for retirement & marriage extensions) when a police order is issued. I don't find it worthwhile to waste time worrying about something that hasn't happened or may never happen. I'm on a marriage extension anyway, not retirement, which is what the pool guy asked about. I also have an employer provided international medical policy, so I have coverage. I also have a backup plan because I wasn't planning to live here the rest of my life. I didn't buy a house or car, so me & the wife can leave whenever. I know that's not the case for everyone. Let's just hope for the best for everyone's sake...
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Seems to me what the gov't is doing (be it intentional or not) is making O-A visa holders buy in-country medical coverage because those visa holders are not required to keep 800k/400k in a Thai bank. If the O-A visa holder leaves and returns in an attempt to get an additional 1-year permission-to-stay and his/her medical will expire before that 1-year stay is up, he/she will be denied entry or will have to extend medical coverage. When the O-A visa holder's visa is about to expire, he/she can apply for a 1-year extension-of-stay based on retirement with the 800k/400k or 65k monthly and then he/she shouldn't need to continue buying the medical coverage. Just my thinking... I could be wrong... but that's how it looks to me. Good luck to all...
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Embassy Explanation for Ceasing Immigration letters
in Thai Visas, Residency, and Work Permits
Posted · Edited by BertM
Mmm... So, you are fortunate and should not have a problem transferring your income to Thailand each month to meet the requirements. My income comes from a legitimate pension also, but I choose to keep money in the bank rather than hassle with having to transfer each month. The horse is still dead...