MacMac

I have a question that is slightly off topic but still has some relevance. I have just completed an honours degree with the Open University in the UK. I decided to do an open degree which allowed me to pick the subjects I was interested rather than restricting me to a named degree. I chose to split my degree between English and Religious studies because both are relevant to the UK primary school curriculum and I would like to start a teaching career in the UK before I move out to Thailand. Anyway the English subjects I took are considered by the Open University to be relevant to both a BA and BSc, therefore I am in a position to accept either a BA (honours) Open degree or a BSc (honours) Open degree. Personally I think a BSc sounds better but would a BSc in English and Religious Studies be rejected as a possible fake because it does sound a little unusual.

Frankie Boyle. A rising star.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5xcPqRVQyg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPJM2DMozpg

Hi PeaceBlondie,

That was a rather Chomsky/Hallidayesc statement to make . But if you mean the royal 'we' then only to an extent. The logic on which I based my cultural and some of the linguistic arguments was based on Ron Carters theories. I am sure he would be devastated to find out his theories were routed in a logical fallacy. Of course you could argue that I have misinterpreted his theorise but that is a whole new debate. As for the grammatical point, point taken. I think I suffer from a common disease called 'like to have the last word' or possibly a more terminal disease called ' hate to be wrong,' but hey life is a learning process.

Anyway it is good to finally put something on the forum after too many years as a lurker and don't worry I am not normally this anal, well I hope I am not.

The original question asked if there was anything wrong with the statement ‘ would you like a coffee?’ and I would argue that it is ambiguous and therefore need clarification.

Are you a teacher? When you teach countable and uncountable nouns, you point out that some can be both countable and uncountable and give examples. Tell students that coffee is not countable and then ask them why I can go to Starbucks and order 'Two coffees'. You may find out that some students work it out for themselves and say something like "You mean 'Two cups of coffee". It's not rocket surgery!

So when I show my students these two pictures they can answer "It's a coffee."?

No, one is a jug and the other is a cup, it's all to do with context.

I'll test you tomorrow.

Will you?

pratt

'pratt' - 0/10. You need a capital letter to start a sentence - even if there is only one word and end with a full stop 'Pratt.' or are you using 'pratt' as your signature?

Hi Mr Hippo

I am not a teacher but I hope to start a PGDE next year. One of the reason I read this form is because I would like to be a primary school teacher in Thailand and this forum has been a great source of information. As for the point about rocket surgery, I never argued that it was I argued that it needs clarification when teaching such a sentence. Some would argue it is a lazy use of the language and therefore incorrect others would argue it is a creative use of the language and language should be manipulated to meet our need. Whatever your standpoint the sentence needs clarification to be understood by anyone new to the language.

Either it's right or it's wrong, there's no if, and in this case it's right.

This is untrue, grammar is not an exact science because language is fluid, unlike rocket surgery which I guess is an exact science, although I am not sure there is much call for surgery on an ingredient for a salad. Linguists are always debating on what should be considered correct grammar. This is also true of the dictionary definition of any word because there is no absolute authority on language.

You might say that the beauty of language is that debate such as this one are possible due to differing opinions on language.

Yes Withnail, you are correct if you are teaching within the confines of your own culture. All the books mentioned were written by western linguists for native speakers or speakers with knowledge beyond basic levels. You are teaching to non native speakers with limited western cultural knowledge who do not necessarily relate a coffee to a cup of coffee without clarification. I believe the statement should be clarified and it is wrong to assume that a student would understand what you mean. Ok here is an example of the need for cultural understanding, the word ‘gay’ once meant happy, it was then used as a term for a homosexual, but now it is used amongst today’s youth to describe someone or some object that is uncool or untrendy. Without explanation the phrase ‘that is so gay,’ could be misinterpreted. (This is purely a linguistic observation and detached from any social implications) Unfortunately I am not bilingual so cannot give an example of a phrase that could seem obvious to a native speak of an Asian culture but ambiguous to a western speaker learning a second language such as Thai. Perhaps someone on the forum could do so. The original question asked if there was anything wrong with the statement ‘ would you like a coffee?’ and I would argue that it is ambiguous and therefore need clarification.

The English spoken word is not as grammatically rigid as the English written word. Creativity is often used in spoken language and can be heard in any dialogue. As someone has previously stated, the English language is a living and changing language. Therefore the use of a sentence such as ‘Would you like a coffee?’ although grammatically incorrect is commonplace. For obvious reasons it takes time for utterances to become rooted in language and for dictionaries and grammar books to ‘catch up’. However as this is an ambiguous statement both context and cultural knowledge are important if the sentence is to be understood. This is also true of the ambiguous statement ‘Would you like some coffee?’ Both statements could refer to a cup of coffee, a coffee tree, a coffee cake and much more. Tea as mentioned above would not be used in this sentence because the word tea, in British society can be used to refer to a drink, a time of the day or a particular meal. I am guessing that the statement ‘Would you like a tea?’ would be acceptable in the USA because it only refers to a beverage. Of course the statement is used in Britain but it would take more than the simple statement to determine the meaning including previous dialogue, non verbal language etc.

Therefore if I was questioned about the use of the statement ‘would you like a coffee?’ I would explain that, although it is grammatically incorrect, this statement has become common place with many English speakers, especially in the western world. However I think you are doing your student a disservice if you simply tell them that it is correct English usage, because it is not and many not be understood by all English speakers especially those new to the language. For example, idioms are perfectly acceptable in language but you would wait until the student has a level of understanding before you introduce them. The point made previously that the function of an English teaching in Thailand is to teach students to communicate is correct to a degree. However if the student is to gain a solid understanding of the language they should learn the rules before they learn how to break them. Maybe this is an idealistic view of language teaching and time constraints do not allow for such luxuries, but hey I am not a teacher yet and it’s easy to sit at a computer and plan an answer as opposed to thinking on your feet.

wow people. Looks like a domestic is happening in this thread. I thought I had received loads of replies with detail advice on what to do next I guess I was wrong

As a newbie I wouldn't want to get involved, but I thought I should reply to Dr. Fisher to say thanks for the post that said I should check out the credibility of my online course. Luckily it is a well established online University in the UK and the degree is accepted by Postgrad courses at other Universities. But thank for the advice I know that there a lot of dodge online courses around.

Thanks very much everyone for your information and encouragement. I’ve now accept that I will be in Scotland for a while if I want a career in teaching. I’ve decided to study for an Open University ‘open degree’ with a view to eventually becoming a Primary school teacher.

Sorry it took me so long to reply but I was gathering as much info as I could before posting. I’ve contacted the local Universities and the Open University and here is what I’ve found out.

It is possible to do some UK Open University subjects in Thailand but it is expensive and I am afraid there aren’t many. If you are a resident in the UK it will cost you about £525 per course. The same course will cost you £1250 outside of the UK.

Here is a link to subjects you can study outside of the Europe.

http://www3.open.ac.uk/courses/about/p7.shtml

To get into a PGDE in Primary Education you need a Hons degree, preferably in a core curriculum subject i.e. English, Mathematics or Science. Alternatively you could do an Open degree and choose units from one of the core curriculum subjects and other relevant subjects such as Child Development. If you live in England or Wales there are more subjects available such as Supporting Learning in Primary Schools, but these education related subjects must be done while you are working or volunteering at a school with a British school curriculum.

Ok this is how it all breaks down for those who are interested in taking the Open University path.

To gain an Hons degree you need 360 points. This breaks down to 120 points at level 1, 120 points at level 2 and 120 points at level 3. An HNC counts for 120 points at level 1. Most courses at levels 2 and 3 are worth 60 points each. This takes about 16 hours of study time a week. So if you have an HNC it is possible to get the 240 points needed for the honours degree in two years but that means 32 hours of study a week. The maximum you are allowed to study is 120 points in a 12 month period.

If you want to teach secondary education it is the same but obviously you need to do the degree in the subject you want to teach.

They also recommended that you do voluntary work with kids either at the local schools or extra curriculum actives such as coaching football. Most of you are teaching at the moment so that will strengthen your application. The problem is that the PGDE in Primary Education is so popular now and there is no ‘best’ way to gain entry. One Uni I contacted said they had 110 places available this year and had over 700 applicants.

So if you pass the PGDE then you are classed as an NQT (Newly Qualified Teacher). After a year in teaching you gain QTS (Qualified Teacher Status). With two years of teaching experience you are then ready to start applying for the 100,000+ baht a month jobs at the top international schools.

So that is the course I am going to take. It looks like I have a lot of study and exams ahead of me. Good luck to anyone who is taking a similar course. And thanks again for all your help and advice.

Hi everyone,

I am new to this site and I would value you opinion on the best way of making a career from teaching in Thailand

I’m 33 years old and have spent some time in Thailand over the past six years. I’ve been a Divemaster and have run a restaurant and bungalows for a friend so I’m not just a fresh face kid. Actually I wish I was, then time wouldn’t be a problem. I’m also learning to speak, read and write Thai. I have now decided to pursue a teaching career and would like your comments on the best way to do this. I am currently doing on online TEFL Diploma with I-to-I. I’m only doing this to get a feel for TEFL. I’ve read the debates on the pros and cons of online courses and I intend to do a CELTA at a later date.

So guys, what do I do? Ideally I would do a 4 year BA in Primary Education then 1 year in full time employment before heading over to Thailand but I’m not sure I could handle another 5 years in sunny Scotland and as I said I’m 33.

The quickest option is an Open University degree. I’ve just been informed by the Open University that my HNC in Computing counts for 1 year of study in an ‘open’ degree. If I use the remainder of the degree to study English I could have a degree heavily weighted towards English related subjects in 2 years. Would I stand a chance of getting into an International school following the British curriculum with this degree? After a few years of teaching I would consider returning to Scotland to do a Postgraduate in Primary Education. I know I could go over there without a degree and work but I don’t want to do that.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated I hope your replies help those in a similar position.