NathanV23

However, no license is required by the exporter himself to simply participate in the act of shipping product.

That's contrary to the legislative stuff you saw above, which said that more than 50 items require licences, permits and the like (many more than you were prepared to acknowledge in  a previous post, Nathan).

Did you read the legislative stuff before? It said that you need a license for 50 plus goods. This is a license for the goods themselves. This is not a little card they give you with your picture on it that says, 'Thai Exporter-Certified and Legal'. However, for the thousands of other goods that don't require a license (most that do are agriclutural, which ensures that the thai population has enough of everything before people start shipping it abroad) you can walk into your local Fed Ex and ship to your heart's content. You may pay tariff's if tariff's are in place. You may pay duties in your home country. To all of you interested in exporting who don't know what to think, go to the local export promotion centre if one is nearby or go to Fed Ex and ask. I promise you that you will not be told you need a broad license to particiapte in exporting. If you want to import, that's a different story and you will need a license.

By the way, FedEx, DHL will ask for your import export license in some cases if you are shipping on a daily basis.

Hi Sunbelt,

Could you clarify this? I've spoken at length with the export promotion centre here and they mirror what you have said as far as certain items being subject to tariffs and duties. However, no license is required by the exporter himself to simply participate in the act of shipping product. However, depending on which country you are shipping to, you may or may not be required to have an importers license to show the relevant authorities there. But for the US for instance, for the vast majority of goods you are free to import at will, while of course paying duties and shippiong within all the bull#hit textile quotas etc. On the other hand, I believe you are required to have a license to import goods to thailand, but we're talkiong about exporting. So why would UPS, FedEx, DHL ask to see your import export license? Maybe this belongs in a new thread?

mrentoul- I don't disagree with you entirely, but I think your argument applies more to the muti-nationals who wield enormous power and seem to abuse it in the sense they offer their workers in Asia very little, when they could in fact contribute more to the worker's lives and communities and still be a successful.  But I know the shareholders wouldn't go along with that plan.  That's is the result of the economic system we have created and I personally don't have any solution...

So does anyone know what visa is required to export from thailand? :laugh:

What I don't like, and which most thinking people would object to, is people being exploited because their government lacks the ability to help them market their produce abroad. I think you'd agree with that too, Nathan, if you thought about it.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see any Thais exploited either. if I ever thought a supplier was being exploited or exploiting its workers, I wouldn't buy from them. But I do feel good about buying from the local villagers who have spent time creating a particular product, even if it only allows them to continue making 5,000 baht a month or whatever it may be. And they at least seem happy to exchange their work for money. I wish that the economic situation was such that the market price on these goods contributed towards lifting them into the middle class, but capitalism dictates otherwise. To be sure, there are also a number of success stories, of thais who have broken into the US market and hit it big time and for any thai that can do this, I am genuinely happy to see them succeed.

The letter of the law is rarely adhered to. You are eligible for the B visa. Trust me ......and even trust  oleGeorge hehehee

Dr. Pat Pong,

Are you saying that the non-im b visa would allow one to legally particiapte in the act of exporting assuming the consulate received a letter of these intents with your application?

This seems to be strongly disagreed with my other members who insist you need a work permit.

Yes, yes - got the propaganda bit, thank-you. The point being made was whether the casual exporters queued up at the post office or wherever have declared their goods and done all their paperwork. I bet in most cases they haven't. Greg put it better :

No propoganda intended. Exporters buying product from the thais who make it obviously helps the thai economy. I've yet to hear how it would be better if all tourists and casual exporters stopped buying here. (You mentioned that someone else would buy in a more meaningful way or the thais would export it themselves I think)..

As for casual exporters using the post office, I think it would be better to call them stupid exporters. it cost much more and takes much longer. Most use DHL,Fed Ex, UPS who all inspect your shipment and collect any relevant fees for the thai government. The tariffs that could be avoided by going through the post office only apply to some agricultural products and certain textiles. If anyone shipped large amounts of these through the post office, i would venture to say they would eventually be caught.

The export licenses apply to buddhas and antiques. Antiques, you're not going to send by the post office. Buddhas, you would eventually be caught and I have my doubts as to how many people are shipping substantial quantities of buddhas through the post office to avoid the export license.

Thank-you. I'd forgotten export duties, licences and the like! The government just might have a financial interest in the goods that casual exporters flog off overseas, even if the villager gets little return.

Nathan, I agree that casual exporters are sometimes little different from tourists...especially those that fail to declare goods!

There is no license that an exporter himself must hold to participate in the act of shipping products. (There is an import license you must hold should you wish to import here) However, of course the thai government has a financial interest in some goods that the casual exporter might 'flog' overseas. There are a number of products which require a license to be issued (for the goods, not the person) and many products that have tariffs placed on them. These are collected by the shipping agent and go to the thai government. Yet another example of exporters assisting the thai economy. And there are many, many products which require no license and have no tariffs. Why? Because the government realizes that the buying and exporting of these products helps the thai economy.

Of course I disagree with anyone who would not declare a shipment of goods which one should pay a tariff on. it would only be a matter of time before they get caught.

mrentoul, yes it is obviously a complex subject. Of course I agree it would be better if in selling their handicrafts to exporters, the thais always made enough to grow the business, hire new people and what not. But around the world that does't seem to be the economic reality of it. They have something to sell and there are exporters happy to buy. They can charge more if they wish, but unless their product is substantially better or different from other suppliers, the exporters will simply buy from someone else.

In this way, the casual exporter is more or less a tourist, they just buy more. And I'll stick with my argument that the act of buying alone whether it be by a tourist or a casual exporter contributes to the thai economy and helps the thai people. If all the casual exporters and tourists stopped buying handicrafts in the north for instance, how would this assist thailand and who would come and buy all these goods AND do it in a matter that contributed in a more meaningful way?

Do you mean 'b' class multiple entry non-immigrant visa? If so:

Read through the thread in this category, 'working in exports-no work permit-is it illegal?' You'll see that even among lawyers there is serious disagreement. After just doing more research I think it allows you to apply for a work permit and nothing more, but there are people like Dr. pat Pong who say it allows you to conduct business. So read through the thread and then maybe contact immigration and get a straight answer. If you do, let us know what they told you.

You're right, of course. I was unreasonable. I am sure it does create an impact on the economy. I wonder how many of them are doing it legally, and if the government really cares? That seems to be the question we are addressing here.

I don't like the idea of all these guys with $10 to their name shipping off localy-made goods in the hope of making a huge killing overseas, but ultimately it's not my problem.

I bet if they are buying in bulk they are getting them cheap, and I wonder how many of these local suppliers have the capital to invest in machinery, staff to meet export orders? Few, I would say, but that would not apply in all cases.

My idea from the beginning has been that the governemnt tolerates small exporters buying and shipping goods for the exact reason that it does contribute so greatly to the economy. Otherwise, why don't they ask to see my work permit of anyone shipping large amounts of product?

Even if they only have $10 to their names, to me anyway, they are still more help than harm. Afterall, they are buying goods produced by Thais. If no one bought the goods, what would the person making them do?

And the point you raise is exactly right. They don't have the capital or know how (the vast majority anyway) to sell it themselves abroad. that is why they happily sell to the farang. if they knew how to sell it abroad, they would tell thr farang to get lost. I am a farang with connections overseas and I know how difficult it is to set up a real business. So if the average thai who makes the goods could do it, then I would be very impressed and by all means, they deserve whatever profit they make.

Thanks for your ideas. Are we all clear now on what you need to export from thailand?

Here, the term "work" is taken to mean "working by exerting one's physical energy or employing one's knowledge whether or not for wages or other benefits". Theoretically, all volunteer or charity work also require work permits. Volunteer teachers are required to obtain work permits even though they receive no remuneration for the work performed.

I think theoretically is the key word. The law as it is written and the law as it is practiced may be and seem to be two different things. As Steve said, you don't see immigration police monitoring the business centres of the Kingdom's hotels.

Sunbelt- According to you then, the absolutley only way to do it legally would be to pay 6 million baht and set up a company or find employmnet with a thai firm (although I don't see how that would allow you to go out sourcing and shipping product) right?

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the response. I think you make a number of good points. At this point, I don't really know what's what anymore, but I do tend to agree with what you are saying.

The non-im b visa verses work permit is an interesting point. I've come across some info that also says a non-im b does not allow you to conduct business, it only allows you to apply for a work permit. George, Dr. Pat Pong, what's your call?

At the very least, this debate has all been quite entertaining. We're the leading topic of discussion day in and day out.

Why should they look after ''casual exporters'', as you put it, when they could attract credible investors who apart from putting money into the local economy will also create jobs?

Exporters who take local product and sell it overseas add nothing to the local economy other than what they pay for the goods. Seems pretty straight-forward to me, Nathan.

as far as taking away the exporting business from the thais, i think that overwhelmingly, the situation around the world is that certain people in certain countries are good at making various goods. However, they do not have the connections or time to sell them abroad. So they are more than happy to sell them to some white guy who thinks he can make a profit on them back home.

Some white guy? Please! The Thai government does its best to make connections with other countries so it can export such goods itself, or make it easier for Thai exporters to do the same rather than have foreigners coming in and doing it for them.

They are not ''more than happy'' to let you do it instead: that's patronising nonsense, though I accept you probably didn't mean it that way.

No, didn't mean to write patronising nonsense. I believe you are correct in terms of the thai government looking to attract 'credible investors' as you put it. But of course their efforts are at a multi-national level i.e. bringing a honda plant here, setting up rice purchase agreements etc.

I would venture to say that casual exporters (say exporting $1000 to $5000 worth of goods a month, buying from locals) contribute enormously to thailand's economy, especially  in poorer regions where there aren't many jobs, but there does exist creative and talented people who can create goods desired in Western markets. In that respect, of course they should look after casual exporters.

Have you been to UPS, DHL and Fed Ex in Chiang Mai? Everyday there are dozens of casual exporters shipping goods. Are you saying this has no positive impact on the ecomony and these people are simply taking away jobs from thais who somehow would be capable of finding a market for the goods abroad?

Anyway, the point is to come to a conclusion as to how to export product from LOS for a profit and do it completely by the book. I'm glad to see there has been lots of input.

Thanks again Dr. Patpong. I've got a friend in Texas so I should be able to give it a try. I'll let the board know the results in a couple months. What is interesting to me is that if we talk pure law, then my situation wouldn't make me eligible for a non-immigrant b visa as there is no sponsoring company in Thailand, thus the need to go to a 'friendly' consulate.

Therefore, it seems that we can conclude that the Thai government has not provided any provision for 'casual exporters' who wish to come here, buy goods and ship them home to sell, but are not interested in or able to set up a thai company or work for a thai company. As exports is such a big industry here, this seems alsmost unbeliveable to me. Would you agree Dr. Pat Pong? There should be a special exporters Visa!

mrentoul, as far as taking away the exporting business from the thais, i think that overwhelmingly, the situation around the world is that certain people in certain countries are good at making various goods. However, they do not have the connections or time to sell them abroad. So they are more than happy to sell them to some white guy who thinks he can make a profit on them back home.

Also, i think everyone has agreed on one thing, that a non-im b lets you conduct business while a work permit allows you to actually be employed here. Let me know if anyone disagrees.

Hi LPCustom69,

I agree that in practice things would probably work how indo-siam spelled out. But the other guys have a point as far as if someone had a grudge against you, they could 'turn you in' and the men in brown would have cause to screw you. So if you can get a non-im b from some of the more relaxed consulates, then this seems the best way to go. IF you can't then I think it may be a risk, but not a big one (I may start a brand new debate with that one). Like i said before, if the law was absolutley enforced, then all shipping agents would be instructed to ask for a copy of the shipper's visa before shipping the goods. Good Luck.

I have Thai friends who have move to the US, England and Denmark. They say this: A major thing they say is that they are so happy to be away from the Thai culture. For most of us farangs, we remain on the outside of the culture, so it remains an interesting, fun and sometimes annoying phenomena. If we do something against the culture and tradition, we are usually forgiven becuase we are just a farang. But for the Thais, there is no escape and they must follow the rules if they wish to get anywhere. Many get overseas and finally feel that they can just be themselves. No more fake smiles. No more being obliged to do this and that.

Another thing I here is they are so glad to be away from the corruption. For saught after jobs such as flight attendant for TG, if you don't have connections your chances of getting the job, no matter how qualified are not good, while unqualified daughters of well connected dad's get the jobs.

Opportunity is another big one. Before one of my friends moved to London, she had graduated from Mahidol (a very good uni in BKK), been an exchange student in the US, spoke fluent English. After two years of work for a major insurance company, she was up to 10,000 Baht a month. For those without such qualifications, youy are lucky to make 5,000 Baht a month. Stick with the same job for 20 years, you might be up to 20,000.

So they see the great opportunity abroad which many farangs take for granted. Start your own business with no red tape for the most part. Work hard and get promoted (assuming the economy picks up!)

I also hear about how they love how modern it is. For some who have become citizens, they love the health care benefits and other benefits should they become unemployed. Things that hardly exist in Thailand.

Finally, everyone tells me how nice it is to be away from the heat!

One thing to remember, when they go to the US for instance, they don't see the US that so many farangs running to Thailand see. Much of what they see is influenced by what they have heard or seen in movies or read about in magazines. Just like when we farangs come to Thailand, the reality of millions of people without any healthcare or social services doesn't really dawn on us.

And, to be sure, the grass is always greener...

My last question: Does everyoone agree that coming in on a non-im b visa would allow one to conduct the business of exporting product? Or are there still some of you who insist that one must have a work permit? (Eventhough it would be impossible to get with no 6 million baht and considering one wouldn't be working for a thai company).

As a matter of interest, my passport was stolen a while back. The embassy had it replaced and sent me to immigration to get my stamps in order. I couldn't remember the exact date I flew in on. They were'nt impressed. They sent me to a building a couple blocks away with a Thai janator who unlocked a padlock on a pair of double doors. Inside were hundreds of thousands of the cards we fill in on arrival (TM?) We started opening up box after box, flipping through all the cards. (They were semi arranged according to date) Four hours later, i had my card and my passport was sorted. Not something I wish to do again.

Hi Dr. Pat Pong,

Thanks very much for the advice. Will I automatically get a one year muliple entry visa or will it be a single entry 3 month? So I need documentation from my company in the states and should I also get letters from various suppliers here saying I need to come to discuss export possibilities? At any rate, I'll call them when I'm back in the states and let you all know what the results of this debate has been. It does semm to depend on what consulate you go to, which in itself doesn't make a whole lot of sense.