On 3/1/2021 at 5:48 PM, Muhendis said:

I've never read such a load of tripe in my life.

"When silicon atoms are hit with sunlight, an electron gets ejected and creates a spark that’s similar to what happens when you microwave metal"...........WHAT?

"Each cell making up a solar panel is sandwiched by an aluminum and glass layer."........ He can't spell aluminium so definitely American and he has absolutely no idea how a solar panel is made. I agree he's an anti-clean-energy nutter. The chemicals he mentioned are used throughout the semiconductor industry in a very controlled way and not just for solar cell manufacture. The devices in our mobile phones, TV's, computers et al are all produced similarly. 

There are some parts of a solar panel which may be difficult to recycle like the thin plastic membrane on the back and the film of adhesive that binds the layers together and the frame to the glass. By the way the electronics industry stopped using lead many years ago.

 

Please don't paint all Americans with the same brush. And your statement that "the electronics Industry stopped using lead many years ago" is ridiculous. Reduced yes, but not eliminated. https://www.electronicdesign.com/industrial-automation/article/21121514/lead-past-present-and-future

On 3/1/2021 at 2:35 PM, rickudon said:

Did some more research and yes, Cadmium can be used - but only 2% of world production in 2008. Can find no references to Lead other than a bit of solder. The other metals are not particularly toxic. Some nasty chemicals are used to make pure silicon, but not left in the product. So, as i said, not really any more of a waste disposal issue than other electrical/electronic waste. 

 

But i am all for 100% recycling of waste. Landfill is just an economic decision. Tax waste massively and recycling will boom. This applies to all waste products.

You learned that 2% of the world's cadmium was used in producing solar panels? That sounds high for one product - so it's concerning. Regarding the other metals that you say are not particularly toxic, one must also consider how those minerals are obtained. Some of them involve really destructive and polluting mining and refining. And thus a lot of pollution is preloaded into solar panels and many other electronic products. If you don't recover those minerals somehow, then more areas will be torn up and more  pollution will result to make the next generation of solar panels.

On 2/23/2021 at 2:09 PM, rickudon said:

The amount of toxic waste in a solar panel is relatively small, probably similar to all other electrical/electronic waste. Batteries more of a concern i think.

 You also need to be sceptical of some claims - i visited a link a few months ago which claimed that solar panels are full of toxic waste - it gave a whole string of elements including cadmium and a few others which i am pretty sure are not used in solar panels. So i chased up where this article was from - wasn't surprised that it came from a site that slagged off renewable energy sources, said that coal was clean with new technologies and that global warming was fake news.

Some of the concerns about the manufacturing of panels are listed in the article that I posted to start this topic. 

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ENVIRONMENT

Solar Panel Waste: The Dark Side of Clean Energy

Tons of solar panels installed in the early 2000s are reaching the end of their lifecycles, posing a serious problem for the industry to contend with. Current solar panel disposal practices are far from being environmentally friendly.

By Conor PrendergastDecember 15, 2020 1:28 AM

 

 

 

 

 

(Credit: anweber/Shutterstock)

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On paper, solar energy seems more promising than ever. Solar cells are becoming easier to produce, along with becoming increasingly compact and portable. But there are a few problems with solar energy that’s seldom talked about. Questions remain about whether their production and waste creates more pollutants than the fossil fuels they aim to replace.

Manufacturing solar panels often requires the use of several noxious chemicals. To add to that, solar panels have an operating lifespan of around 20 to 30 years. Since they were first introduced in the 2000s, literal tons of solar panels are reaching the end of their lifespan. Because it's not easy to properly dispose of the toxic metals inside the solar cells — and there's an overall lack of oversight — it is often cheaper to discard them in landfills or send them to developing countries. As solar panels sit in dumps, the toxic metals they contain can leech out into the environment and possibly pose a public health hazard if they get into the groundwater supply.

What’s in a Solar Panel? 

A solar panel is essentially made up of several sheets of silicon crystals called cells. Each cell making up a solar panel is sandwiched by an aluminum and glass layer. Together, they form the energy-producing components that convert sunlight into electricity.

 

The cells require very pure silicon to work properly. When silicon atoms are hit with sunlight, an electron gets ejected and creates a spark that’s similar to what happens when you microwave metal. These electrons are carried through the cell via traces of metal impurities added to the silicon, and copper wires carry it away as electrical currents.

Very pure silicon must be used because the crystal structure it forms is most conducive to letting electrons flow. Production commonly includes nitrogen trifluoride and sulfur hexafluoride, some of the most harmful greenhouse gases around.

Normally silicon is recyclable, but to improve the solar cells’ electrical efficiency, metals such as cadmium and lead are added. This makes solar cells difficult to recycle, since it will take considerable energy to extract hazardous metals. In fact, it often costs companies more to recycle a solar panel than to produce a solar panel.

 

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

This sounds to me more like a mental illness.

Do you obsess this much about a plastic water/drinks bottle purchased in 7-11 before you buy it?

No fridge, no air-con, no car, no bicycle, no computer, no tv?

19 hours ago, Muhendis said:

That's a good question you are asking. Basically the answer is they are virtually 100% recyclable. However there needs to be an infrastructure of sorts to do this. In more solar savvy countries I believe this already exists. In Thailand that may not yet be the case. I'm sure there is a business opportunity here somewhere but it will probably be a few years before such a business will have a lot to do.

https://forevergreen-energy.co.uk/can-solar-panels-be-recycled/#:~:text=The short answer is yes,into landfill in the UK.

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

This sounds to me more like a mental illness.

Do you obsess this much about a plastic water/drinks bottle purchased in 7-11 before you buy it?

No fridge, no air-con, no car, no bicycle, no computer, no tv?

You can call it a mental illness, because that's what you're familiar with. I call it a conscience.

I hope you're right, because  I'm not sure I can install a solar system  when I don't know about the full  life cycle of the product. The history of broken promises made around recycling plastic, e-waste, etc. makes me wonder if this will all come true. And how much confidence can we have in promises from this government? The solar energy industry is as good as any other before it at promoting the benefits of their products and not mentioning the downsides. What's EGAT by the way?

6 minutes ago, Muhendis said:

That's a good question you are asking. Basically the answer is they are virtually 100% recyclable. However there needs to be an infrastructure of sorts to do this. In more solar savvy countries I believe this already exists. In Thailand that may not yet be the case. I'm sure there is a business opportunity here somewhere but it will probably be a few years before such a business will have a lot to do.

https://forevergreen-energy.co.uk/can-solar-panels-be-recycled/#:~:text=The short answer is yes,into landfill in the UK.

The key seems to be getting the companies to agree to take them back or forcing them to take them back. And then they have to recycle the materials. But we are a long way from that in a lot of countries including Thailand.

We'll be lucky if our solar panels last 20 years. And then what will we do with them all?  There are a lot of environmental  problems from producing these panels  with all of the mining and energy needed. We just don't see them as much because a lot of them take place in China and other countries rather than where the panels end up being used. The problem seems to be that the materials used in solar panels cost more to take out of the dead ones then you get for them. Has anyone heard of any planning or efforts to dismantle and recycle solar panels that no longer work in Asia? Maybe this is a pipe dream in a country where so many people throw all of their garbage on the street or into the river. But it seems worth asking and thinking about. For more background please see https://www.deseret.com/platform/amp/utah/2021/1/30/22249311/why-green-energy-isnt-so-green-and-poses-harm-to-the-environment-hazardous-waste-utah-china-solar

11 hours ago, KhunFred said:

ALL my money needs to be in my American bank account to pay the bills I owe. Credit card companies do not seem to accept payments from Bangkok Bank.

I just started using this incomemethod, and I will have to transfer some money back to America for bills after depositing it into the Thai bank account.  It's kind of stupid, but I think it will work because the immigration office I use only wanted to see the deposits - they didn't care about the withdrawals. 

22 minutes ago, tokyoblond said:

The current complications caused by covid have led to open-season for immigration officials. Yes, it's wrong (OP), but please do not try to complain. The full wrath of the immigration money-making machine will come down upon you like a ton of bricks. I speak from personal experience, which I will not go into here. Even with your papers all in a row, kow-towing to them, they will find a way to make you jump through a multitude of extra, unnecessary hoops until they wear you down. Your choice then is to pay up or leave. I am sorry to the OP that we see the usual, petty, arrogant, self-important rubbish spouting from the ThaiVisa regulars here. THEY are part of the problem, not you.

Tough crowd here for sure.

5 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Afaik this is wrong. Do you have any official source stating this?

 

Sounds more like the IO created a problem and then demanded payment to make this problem go away. I would call this extortion.

That's what I was thinking.

2 hours ago, jackdd said:

https://www.nacc.go.th/english

25 minutes ago, polpott said:

So you were complicit in the corrupt act and now you want to complain about it? You're either a troll or severely lacking upstairs.

Just now, DrJack54 said:

The fact is you did not at any point clearly state what the issue was (I think 3 different members asked).

Just something vague that you would need to go to another office some distance away.

Nor indicate how you paid the io and how much. It's like a confusing movie.

Normally you leave the country to get a type I visa. If one did that this year it would not be possible to come back. So I used an agent in another city recommended to me by a couple of people. I got the type O from an agent in Bangkok, and they used an immigration office in the far north. When it was time to get the one-year extension, the local immigration office said you have to go back to this other office on the other side of the country. I talked to a lawyer and she said it's better just to do it locally because then you won't have to go back to that other city to do your 90 day reporting. The local immigration office said basically if you pay extra we won't make you go to the other side of the country. I don't know if it was really a problem or something they just made up to get more money.

5 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

The OP did not clearly identify the reason for rejection or identify what was wrong.

I suggest he did not satisfy requirements.

It seems he has not obtained his extension. Is now on thaivisa focusing on corruption. With 6 more business days left till Friday 25. I suggest keeps eye on the ball.

No I have the extension. Because I played along rather than having to leave the country and wait for a way to get back in with all they quarantine and all that other garbage

9 minutes ago, 473geo said:

Yes should have been single quotes, send me the bill for my error

They didn't do any extra work anyway.

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

https://www.nacc.go.th/english

Thanks, that's all I was looking for.

1 hour ago, glegolo said:

thousands of years with corruption, and you wish to change Thailand...

Good luck....

 

glegolo

We need to keep bringing it up - maybe the young people trying to change this country will be interested at some point.

15 minutes ago, polpott said:

Try the Thai Visa forum. You'll get lots of really good advice. 555

 

As usual 

20 minutes ago, 473geo said:

I don't know of many business where 'additional work' caused by incompetence of the customer does not carry a charge

20 minutes ago, 473geo said:

I don't know of many business where 'additional work' caused by incompetence of the customer does not carry a charge

You put "additional work" in quotes like I said it, but I didn't.

On 9/12/2020 at 11:24 AM, Orton Rd said:

They could do worse than start with those immigration officers accepting bribes to 'legally' overlook money in the bank requirements for extensions ????

I had my first experience with corruption at an immigration office last week and I was going to ask if there's any place I could report it that might make a difference. By reading these replies makes me think it would be a waste of time.

On 9/12/2020 at 11:24 AM, Orton Rd said:

They could do worse than start with those immigration officers accepting bribes to 'legally' overlook money in the bank requirements for extensions ????

On 5/26/2020 at 9:47 AM, jacko45k said:

I do not believe you can get a Non-Imm-O Multi in the USA based on retirement.

Correct 

On 5/26/2020 at 11:37 AM, Thomas J said:

Johnray

 

In the USA that would brand you as a RACIST  Democrats want them to get free housing, food, college tuition, stimulus payments, drivers license and of course the right to vote. 

Wow bashing the Democrats in USA with fake talking points - a bit off-topic!