SAP

Cheers

Funny I did some work around takfa 40 bt is cheap. Would be lucky to buy the empty container In oz for that money

Thanks mate

Cheers boys

I miss LOS

Regards

Sap

Basamid is available in Thailand from a German Co called Behn Meyer

Update on potato pics, 12 days on,

Im a little worried that the spud is starting to bolt a bit? perhaps because its still too hot here [34c days 28c nights] or i gave it too much bat guano?

SAP, please advise on this, thanks,

Also, the spuds i buy from the market now have no shoots atall and are very firm, so i would think these are newish spuds? Ive got a dozen or so in a cool place with fingers crossed that they are seed spuds!

Below are the pics, i was hoping that it would "green up" more before getting tall, same as a euro spud, perhaps things are different here?

Lickey that looks good.

If you have any seed from this same lot, use it for your main planting as it looks fine, its not bolting its just growing fast. I would have a guess that it should start flowering either now or this week. If you have any 15 15 15 or something maybe feed it a teaspoon. It maybe an idea to support the tops like a tomato plant, as they are likely to fall over and crack.

SAP

Hi

I have been talking with Lickey about the best way to grow spuds in Thailand as a hobby farmer. Biggest issues is getting good seed. Importing it is not economical and a huge hassle, guys in far north (Chaing rai area, and Mae sot maybe able to get your hands on some that the local farmers use for the crisping the factories.

SO far Lickey has tested A tesco spud as seed. It had been treated with a sprout inhibitor and growth was abnormal to say the least. It looks like local market spuds are less likly to be treated with the sprout inhibitor.

A few quick tips

Water and fertilize like a tomato plant

Buy seed from market and leave 3 month before planting (next season buy it 5-6 months before planting)

Plant 15cm deep and make one nice shaped hill, with seed 15 cm deep. I am not sure if the tyre trick will work in Thailand, as it is likely to increase the heat of the soil.

Plant in Oct/Nov/Dec OK Optimal date about Nov 10-20

Good luck, and please post some photo's of the results

SAP

What did the Dog say when the Cow said...."have you heard the one about the three legged sheep"...........................................................................

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.....hel_l Bells!! Look at that!!! A TALKING COW??!!??

Be careful if the manure is not broken down properly, the decomposing manure makes the nitrogen unavailable to the plants hence people sometimes get yellow plants after manuring. If you are unsure spread or mix with the manure about 10kg/rai of urea and this will help counter the imbalance.

SAP

We used to pay 5% of the farm profit to the workers as there bonus. Generally in Thailand I believe Thai bosses give a stock standard one month salary as the bonus.

WE paid similar wages and salaries to MF, but after a while I knocked the time and half OT payment on the head. As at planting time and harvest time, they would just screw around all day, and they would complete the same amount from 5pm-10-11 pm as what they achieved from 8am to 5pm. So OT just came their daily pay/8hours and added on hourly after 5pm.

SAP

Lickey I think you are on the right track, and Meandwi is too.

I got asked many times by Israelies, "are the Thai's good workers" and they were surprised when I told them how frustrating it could be here in the LOS.

In Israel the Thai's are held up in highest-esteem for their quality of labour work, compared to Arabs and other labour they use. And the Thai's work really hard for 1675 bt/day compared to 150 bt/day that they get here. So the old addage runs true "you get what you pay for".

If you ever get the chance go into one of the big Toyota repair shops about 7.45 am in the morning, and watch the morning meeting from the boss and the level of supervision that happens, in Udon they even make all the mechanics do about 5 minutes of stretching and exercising before they start work. If you have the chance take a look, as its that Japanese factory/company mentality that we can all learn from and use over Asia.

SAP

SAP

GOOGLED AGAIN under Solubor, it says that its chemical formation is Disodium-Octoborate-tetrahydrate.

Solubor (which can be purchased as a Agriculture fertilizer)is a powder that can mixed with water and sprayed on crops, therefore I figure there is more than one use for this stuff.......\\

Smithson!! What do you want it for?

SAP

If you use some as fertilizer do not use more than 2 kg/rai, boron is toxic to plants at too higher rate, I had labour spread borax on potato rows once, and when they got to the end of the row and they still had some left in the container and they would poor it on thick onto the last 10 meters (DESPITE BE TOLD NOT TOO!!!!), so at the end of rows the leaves had ugly burn marks because of it.

SAP

GOOGLED AGAIN under Solubor, it says that its chemical formation is Disodium-Octoborate-tetrahydrate.

Solubor (which can be purchased as a Agriculture fertilizer)is a powder that can mixed with water and sprayed on crops, therefore I figure there is more than one use for this stuff.......\\

Smithson!! What do you want it for?

SAP

Oops sorry!! after googling it does look like some kind of wood treatment, termite killer!!

Is anyone familar with the chemical fertilizer disodium octaborate tetrahydrate? I'm interested to know if it is widely available in Thailand and what it's normal uses are.

Thanks!

I think it is commonly known as Borax, and is available but you have to hunt it down, and I believe the suppliers want to know, what you are using it for. I do believe that it was sometimes injected into the meat or something?! I forget the reason why that was done. But that is why its not that easy to get hold of!!

It is one of the cheapest ways to apply boron, onto boron deficient soils. And is commonly used in fruit & vege production to reduce internal defects like brown spot.

SAP

Lucky man - klong 20yards away!!!

Nope, so long as the water level in the klong is no more than 4 or 5 meters below the land (or below a position where you can site a pump - even if it means you have to dig out a slightly lower level to keep the pump no higher than about 4meters above the water level), you can buy yourself an old used 3litre diesel pickup engine - (just the engine not the gearbox), build a frame and mount it and a centrifugal pump to the frame.

Typical 3litre diesel pickup engine is going is to give you around 70 reliable horses at 1800 - 2100rpm - just ensure you choose a centrifugal pump that is rated to run at this speed for whatever the engines shaft horsepower output is at this engine rpm.

Engine cost: you should be able to pick up a reliable one for around Baht30 000 at most, and the pump? - you have to options: go scour the Eastern seaboad industrial scrapyards for an old process pump (loads of them lying around the Eastern Seaboard scrap yards), or a new one - Kirloskar have an office on Rama 3 run by a bunch of Indians. They are good pumps and you should be able to get something new from them for anything from Baht 25k - 65k - depending on pressure and flow rate. make sure you choose a pump that is rpm rated for the engine running as close as possible to its torque/hp cross over curve - to get the best efficiency.

Off the top of my head you should be able to pump something around 45 - 50 tons of water per hour at around 4bar - enough to drive a few big impact sprinklers - and to pay the "gofer" to move them round every few hours or so.

Things start getting complicated now, and we could talk about sprinkler layout patterns, sprinkler tip diameters and tubing lengths/diameters, engine choice and best coupling method between the pump and engine, and best rpm to run the engine at under load, choosing a pump rated for most efficient output at the engines most efficient rpm under load ...... blah blah, blah blah - and we can go on all night, but for 10 rai it's my opinion that all things considered (cost of equipment, cost of labour, cost of irrigation tubing ect ect ........) you're going to be best off with something along the lines of the above: a pump and diesel engine, enough movable tubing and 4 - 6 large impact sprinklers chosen for their radius and flow rates that tie in with you land size/dimensions and a practical 6" pvc surface laid tube layout pattern.

If you actualy get this far down the line (i.e. you decide you are going to go ahead) I'd be more than happy to help you get this all setup properly mechanicly, and the efficiency clac's done properly, but for the time being use the above as a guideling and you won;t go far wrong.

Dave D

Is it rice paddy land you are going to use, if so and planting feed corn I would recommend using flood irrigation for the first crop or two. This way you have no capital cost, maintanance of pump and engine or fear of being lost.

What I know of some of the current hybrids

Monsanto

919 low yielding but most reliable hybrid under all conditions

979 strong stalk and disease resistance, good high rainfall area's and cooler mountain climates like Pak Chong, Mae Sot etc

9909 or 9901 one of these is a cheap Indian copy the other is a very high yielding monsanto variety, I can not remember which!!!!I am unsure of its adaptability to different climates etc

Pacific

224 High yielding big ear

Seed Asia

TF 222 High yielding most drought tolerant, performs in poor fertility soil conditions

TF 501 Strong stalk, good high rainfall area's and cooler mountain climates like Pak Chong, Mae Sot etc

Syngenta

Nk48 high yielding, good disease resistance, liked by local farmers, but farmers are often paid less due it has poor grain colour and is not preferred for export market

CP

888 Same like Monsanto 919, old low yielding variety but very reliable.

888 NEW (great marketing here by CP) Have introduced a new hybrid but have kept the old name (would probably be illegal in most countries) It is another high yielding hybrid, I am unsure of its adaptability to different climates etc

There are other good hybrids on the market. I would plant probably two or three different varieties eg

1. High Yielder

2. Drought Tolerant (if have no irrigation)

3. Something strong and reliable

.................. and remember, producing a crop is half the story: it then has to be marketed and sold - and done so at a profit, which can often be more frustrating than the growing part.

Agreed MF, exactly the point I was trying to make. To add more value to your crop is about things like niche marketing, value added goods etc and if you have only a small area it is all the more important......and for sure time consuming setting up, getting yourself a good reputation and keep supplying consistent high quality produce on time, so that you keep your reputation.

I believe there are ways to make a sizable income on 7 rai, (maybe not enough for my lifestyle though). But all high intensive, market gardening, greenhouses, flowers etc is real hands on type stuff. Where I love doing the broad acre farming, I get a kick out of driving big sandpit toys.

Cheers

SAP

Jai DEE

When ever I had problems I would head to Khon Kaen University, and was pleasantly surprised by the level of English and Technical knowledge (though not always the practical know how!!).

To make the 7 rai profitable I would recommend 2 things.

1. Netting/greenhouses and doing something like capsicums, basically doing it hydroponically and using a median for soil. APPARENTLY it is possible to grow 400 tons of tomatoes per year in 1 ha (6.25 rai)of a netting house.

2. Self Marketing of your premium grade product eg hotel trade, export market, etc

Good Luck

SAP

Thanks for the input.

Well it appears soybean seed is out there. I would assume the Thai samples I sent eariler to Japan were rejected due to the high Japanese standard for human comsumption. The Thai varieties are fine for food, oil and soymeal. May be I will just stick to more local markets. However, with the cost of production so much cheaper in China this may not be an option either. Although, production costs here in Laos, I suspect, are lower than Thailand. That would explain the large number of Thai agro. companies investing here. The other benefit is to get soybean into a maize rotation before the soil fertility is lost. The Vientnamese have been supporting Lao farmers to plant corn on thier swidden field but yields will drop. Soybean could counter this.

off to Brazil!!!!

thanks

richlao

Northern Queensland has a very similar season to Thailand/Laos......I just googled Soyabeans Queensland Japan and found this website about a govt run plant breeding program. http://www.csiro.au/files/files/p2id.pdf

I don't know your Nationality, but as long as you can understand the local outback dialect and can speak understandable English, I would recommend ringing CSIRO and speak to the breeder (the breeders name comes up when you google the above). And quiz him about what you are doing.............I find these types of guys like plant breeders, they are the type of people that are overly fascinated with their jobs, but in turn are willing to pass any information on that they can.

Cheers SAP

Isaarn George this fear you pose, is a good reason for you to turn up on Tuesday. I have already considered the holiday!!!

I hope that in the future people can make the effort to get together more often!

SAP

Oh Well Lickey

Its looks like just you and me, I've got my bags packed and flying up that way this evening, a few days in the back reaches of Nongkhai and then back to Udon on Tuesday.

Cheers

SAP

On Tuesday the 12th of August 5pm "Queens Birthday"

I invite all farming friends from Thai Visa for a get together at Harry's Bar in Udon Thani.

Personally I dislike communications by email and chat forums etc..... as things often get taken wrongly, and my level of english is shoddy at best.

Make the effort and be positive, come and talk about the rubber tree's, price of fuel, the builder that rips you off, the price of fish in China, or just how much you love living in the land of smiles.

Harry's website http://www.udonmap.com/harrysbar/ or for directions

From Nongkhai----turn right at Tesco intersection (ring road), third set of lights do a u-turn, go back about 3-400 meters and on the left handside.

From Khon Kaen turn left at the ring road...follow the road until you hit hte Loei-Udon road and turn right (T-section) After the second set of lights go about 3-400 meters and its on the left hand side.

The reason for me posting this, is that I have had a fun filled 8 years of trials and tribulations in the LOS of smiles, and in Sept I am going back home to take on a new challenge.................And I thought it could be worth while for people that enjoy doing the similar thing to get together. Harry has been a good friend over this time and if a few people turned up, you would be helping out a mate!

Cheers SAP

Hey Guys

Please be careful, it is very dangerous and highly illegal to import seed without following the correct procedures and clearing it with Thai Plant Quarantine. I know alot of guys bring in a few seeds with their luggage, just for their vege patch. For the vege garden, most seeds can be found at the local store or contact a company like Green Seeds or East-West, that specialize in seed varieties for the tropics.

I would guess that if you try to ship here by mail or freight, it would have a high chance of being picked up by Thai Customs. And never making it to the farm.

As you know fresh food and meat gets exported around the world, and the food that is moved by bulk does have stringent guidelines to meet the Plant Quarantine laws of the destination. And all the containers get checked on arrival at the port of destination. But seed is a another step along the chain.

With seed we are taking the seed to the HEART of another countries (continent) agriculture, and planting this seed alongside native plants and crops. The thing is the seed you import may have a virus, fungus, bacteria or something that is not yet in Thailand, and by your innocent few plants of lavender there is a possibility that you could import a pathogen that either wipes out some native vegetation and then in-turn affecting the wildlife. And/or cost the Thai economy and Agriculture millions/billions of baht having to control some new pathogen in their chiles or basil or something.

It all sounds melo-dramatic, but why take the risk?

1. Seed Companies are available here

2. The seed locally brought variety will be more suited to the climate and environment

3. AND for the lavender and rosemary, get onto East-West seeds. They will take care of of the Phyto-sanitary papers and other crap that you need to do to import seed, of course at at fee.

Good Luck

SAP

I found this on the net about the potato "Cartel" in the US..........

http://www.hcn.org/issues/352/17171

I hope it works out as I had heard they were now experimenting with other crops too

I would have a guess, that at this time last year the price was probably good or excellent, and therefore all the pumpkin growers all put in a few rai of pumpkins instead of corn (or whatever other crop they may grow)

Back home with fresh market potatoes we used to see this all the time. A shortage is created by a drought in one area or some other disaster, and then the majority of farmers will put in another 10% area next year. This creates an over supply the market hits rock bottom again, and the cycle goes on.

Anyone know about the commune system that alot farmers are now using in the US. I know it was instigated by a Japanese-American guy who was consequently one of the largest land owners in the US and one of the biggest potato farmers. He had almost gone broke on 2 or 3 occasions because of the market fluctuations. Therefore he started up a commune type system, where all the potato farmers register with a communal supply company (owned by the farmers themselves). This company then allocates planting area's and planting dates to the farmers. This would stop the overlap in seasons, when one area is still harvesting while another was kicking into gear, and in turn stabilize the market price. The farmers for once had control on the supply. From what I heard farmers returns increased by big margins, and for once the farmer wasn't dictated to the big supermarkets. I am sure there must be some flaws to system, anyone know any other details??

In the past about 50% of rubber products were made from synthetics, so as the fuel price goes up the products made from synthetics look back to natural rubber. Hence the rise and fall of rubber and oil going hand in hand.

My honest opinion is that this year and next year will be the last of the glory days for rubber prices. Supply and Demand, Thai factories unfortunaltey know this game oh too well, and hence 5-6 years ago the massive push (and by the government too) to plant rubber. And I believe large area's have also been planted in Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia and Southern China too. Why did this happen, due to Malaysia and Southern Thailand turning their old plantations into Palm Oil. Also alot of the old plantations were not hybrids, the new hybrids will more than double the yields of the tree's that were planted 30 years ago.

I think the price will come back and sit around 45-60 bt/kg (in about 2 years)........although at this price in a well maintained plantation will still give a nice return.

Its just my opinion.

I also believe in Agriculture and it doesn't matter what crop it is, the best way to counter poor prices is by growing healthy high yielding crops.

SAP

For other readers to plant at these spacings accurately a Thai made planter or a worn out air seeder/finger planter will not do the job.

Hi SAP,

So what type/make/model of planter would you recommend? Price? Where to buy? Would the same planter work for soybeans?

Cheers,

JB.

JB

Next week, I am putting together some 2 row JD finger planters for company use (can do soybeans aswell), if you are in the Nakon Sawan area come have a look. The row units are second hand from the US, and we are building the frames, fert boxes etc here in Thailand, we have a total of 16 row units so if you would like a 2 row of 4 machine we can build it for you. I do not know exact cost but I would expect about 120,000 bt. We have two demo models working already.

In Thailand you can buy a cheap plate planter for about 50,000 bt.

They did a trial at the research station, Thai planter vs JD Finger Planter.............It was astounding the yield increase was 30+% increase in Yield!!

MODERATORS-----This is not advertising, we really want to get some guys out there contracting with these machines as it will be the Thai Farmers that will benefit.

MF, Kinze-------They say its one of the best, I would love to see that in action sometime!

SAP