JoseThailand

11 minutes ago, connda said:

This has been in the public domain since published by Wikileaks.
Then US Ambassador Bill Burns sent this diplomatic cable on Feb 1, 2008:

"NYET MEANS NYET: RUSSIA’S NATO ENLARGEMENT REDLINES
Foreign Minister Lavrov and other senior officials have reiterated strong opposition, stressing that Russia would view further eastward expansion as a potential military threat. NATO enlargement, particularly to Ukraine, remains “an emotional and neuralgic” issue for Russia, but strategic policy considerations also underlie strong opposition to NATO membership for Ukraine and Georgia. In Ukraine, these include fears that the issue could potentially split the country in two, leading to violence or even, some claim, civil war, which would force Russia to decide whether to intervene."
Source:  https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08MOSCOW265_a.html and various other internet links if you search on "Nyet means nyet: Russia's NATO enlargement redlines"

 

This is in response to the security assurances against NATO expansion given to Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev from George H.W. Bush, Hans-Dietrich Genscher, Helmut Kohl, Robert Gates, François Mitterrand, Margaret Thatcher, John Major, and Manfred Woerner and various other US, British, French, and German leaders and diplomats. The promise by U.S. Secretary of State James Baker on on February 9, 1990 was that "NATO would not move one inch to the East" in return for the Soviet pull back allowing for the reunification of Soviet occupied East Germany with West Germany.
https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early

 

This was reiterated by Putin on February 10, 2007 at Munich Security Conference, and again during a December 17, 2021 meeting with the US where Russia forwarded a proposed draft security agreement precluding NATO's expansion to Ukraine and the deployment of the military alliance's weapons which Russia considered to be an existential threat and which was rejected by US.  The logic here was Russia didn't want NATO and NATO weapons deployed on it's border.  Imagine if an alliance of Russia, China, and BRICS+ nations push up against the US border and threatened to deploy weapons to Mexico, Latin America, and the Caribbean?
What would happen? Exactly what happened in 1962 "Cuban Missile Crisis." 

This could have been avoided had the West been sincere about the two Minsk Agreements, but both France and Germany had signed in bad faith.  They never planned to allow them to be implements.  Instead as this quote for Reuters, "Putin had been asked about remarks by former German chancellor Angela Merkel, one of the agreements' sponsors, who told the Zeit magazine in an interview published on Wednesday that the 2014 agreement had been "an attempt to give Ukraine time" - which it had used to become more able to defend itself," in other word they signed the Minsk Agreement to give Ukraine time to built its military - not to seek a peaceful resolution to the then civil war in Eastern Ukraine.

Then there was one last chance to settle this diplomatically during the Russian - Ukraine peace talks in April 2022 in Istanbul, Turkey which were acknowledged and initialed by both side - until Boris Johnson showed up and torpedoed the negotiations - then it was "War On!" 

So don't say this was unprovoked.  It could have been resolved in April 2022. 
There is a long history with the West reneging on it's promises and guarantees to Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union and openly seeking the complete break-up of Russia, which would be an existential treat to any other country on Earth.  Again - there is no way the US would allow a military alliance of foreign countries to place bases on its border - that would be a provocation for war.  But it is always different when the US and the West is doing that to other sovereign countries. 

For those 87% of you?   You don't study history or Geo-politics.  86% of you read and watch Western news and all you get is the "official accepted narratives" which support Western unipolar expansionism globally. And all you do is parrot the slogans:  "Russian aggression," and "Unprovoked war."  Sloganism is propaganda people.  And it's effective when applied to people who can't think and analysis on their own.
Don't ya'll ever stop to think that sovereign countries that are not aligned with Western countries (like Thailand) don't want any other country's militaries on their borders threatening them to do their bidding?

Now before you call me, "Putin's Puppet?"  No - I'm Anti-War veteran.  I believe in diplomacy.  I believe in peaceful resolutions to conflict.  And there are two sides to the Russia-Ukraine conflict, not just one.  And this could have been put to bed in April 2022 with Ukraine just ceding Crimea to Russia and accepting neutrality.  Now?  This could well end up in WWIII and global nuclear war.  I swear that many of you 87% want exactly that - World War.

Then what are you gonna do?  Because when World War comes, China will come down on Russia's side, and China will then exert it's own influence over Asia and South East Asia as it takes back Taiwan and all its claims in the South China Sea. Why not - the West will be stretch across the globe in a multi-front war which it is not prepared to fight - which leaves only nukes.  Then we all die.

Seriously - Where do you plan on going when the war breaks out and Chinese troops arrive in Thailand?  Gonna try to bribe your way on to one of the over-packed flights out of Thailand, and then go fight for your homeland? Or stay here and fight an insurgency against the Chinese? I seriously doubt it.  But really - what are you going to do, because most of you want war.  Best of luck with that.

Tell me one thing - how did the invasion of Ukraine stop the NATO expansion to the east? It did the exact opposite - accelerated it! Finland and Sweden, who refused to join NATO for decades, now joined it in a very speedy manner. Territory-wise, it is the biggest expansion of NATO since it's inception!

1 hour ago, BobBKK said:

You purposely do not mention female retirement stays at 60, and the 65 for males is gradual and less than the USA at 66/67 and the UK at 66.

Half of the Russian population (males) won't get any pension as they don't live long enough, and the other half (females) who will, will only get a meager 200 EUR per month. That's a great achievement for 24 years in power! Thank you Puting

35 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

He took them out of the poverty and chaos

You call 200 EUR pensions "took them out of the poverty"? Also, he raised the retirement age from 60 to 65, even though the average life expectancy for males is just 65, meaning that the average Russian male won't get any pension at all!

3 hours ago, jayceenik said:

Do you know that the US had a plan to dismember Belgium after the Liberation?

And make it disappear as a nation...

Do you know what Puting wants to do to after the so called "liberation of Urkaine"?

Exactly - dismember it and make it disappear as a nation...

3 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

So you have your reasons and you feel that that’s good enough? How do you know that @jayceenik doesn’t have his reasons? What gives you the right to call him despicable? Rhetorical question. Just typical behaviour on this forum, ganging up on those that don’t share your views with insults.

He never lived in Russia, what does he know about Russia and Putin? He is a European retiree getting a good pension from his government, maybe 2000 EUR per month or so, while pensions in Russia are just 200 EUR per month. He has a privilege to openly express his political views and nobody will throw him in jail for that. He should be grateful for what he has in his country, because Russian people can only dream of having it!

1 hour ago, Gweiloman said:

If that’s despicable, you’re a Russian (as you previously claimed) that doesn’t support Russia. Wonder what that makes you…

I don't support Putin, not Russia. I don't support him because of what he did to Russia, turning it into a lawless totalitarian KGB-ruled state where you get thrown to jail if you say anything against the war

12 hours ago, jayceenik said:

I support Putin 100%.

I'm just a plain Belgan retiree.

Being a Belgian, you support Putin in his war against Europe? Then you are a traitor.

Your government pays you a generous pension so you can live in Thailand and spread Russian propaganda, acting against your own country?

That's very despicable.

On 5/22/2024 at 1:44 PM, Danderman123 said:

I wonder how many posts here come from Russia.

Some of them definitely are from Russia. I saw a pro Russian poster writing in poor English and talking crap about property rights in the West.

If you didn't know, there is a whole company of pro Kremlin internet trolls posting comments on forums and social media. This group was founded by Wagner's Prigozhin. You can read more about them here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Research_Agency

3 hours ago, BobBKK said:

There is no difference between Ukrainians and Russians despite what some might tell you.

Exactly. That's why I think Putin is a criminal because he started the war against Ukrainians who are in fact Russian people. He kills Russian people simply because they have different political views and agendas.