khaosai

26 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

Watched the video of what they expect to find on cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder... and idea was that CVR would have basically no data as it loops every 2 hours and by the time last loop began, everyone was already dead. But they are expecting to see data on the FDR.

 

Hate to break excitement but... If someone knew how to disable transponder, he would have definitely known of 2 fuses behind captain's seat, which disable both recorders. All he needed to do was pull the plugs. So eventually - they might find "nothing" on both of them.

Can't say I have ever seen those 2 fuses in the flight deck behind the Captains seat. 

Hi,

Seems like an overall good job by the crew. Engine issue dealt with, no rush and a safe landing achieved. 

The checklist will most likely state, land at the nearest suitable airport. That does sometimes get subjective amongst crews. It does means the nearest in terms of time, however there are other aspects that need to be considered. The closest airport on a particular day may not be the most suitable. 

The aircraft i fly fly states that if high airframe occurs and continues after engine shutdown then without delay reduce speed and descend to a safe altitude which results in an acceptable vibration level. If high airframe vibration returns and further airspeed reduction and descent at not practical then increasing the speed may reduce the vibration.

High vibration is extremely unlikely to damage the airframe or systems. 

Hi,

would most definately recommend East Coast Real Estate. A well established, family run company with a solid reputation in the area. 

Repost removed

It's an interesting and often challenging airfield to operate into. Terrain close to the runway, often affected by weather with possibly the month of September having the most rainfall.

The runway is 45 metre wide with a pronounced down slope when landing to the West and its not grooved. Offset Instrument approach by 2 degrees laterally, steeper approach vertically and a bit of a black hole at night due to simplified approach lighting. Higher vertical minima required and with a visibility requirement of 1.8km for the instrument approach. 

Lucky there were no aircraft on the parallel taxi way as its not that far from the runway. 

I would put it down to a runway excursion as mentioned previously. 

Glad all safe. 

Will be interesting to see the actual facts the crew were faced with and which most likely determined their decision making. Was it oil or fuel related. The company stated an oil warning indication.

Oil pressure, temperature and quantity are secondary engine indications on the B777. There is no warning for oil related issues.

A reducing oil quantity will cause the secondary engine indications to pop up automatically. At this stage there is no action required from the crew. Airmanship will however dictate a plan of action in case the situation worsens.

Low oil pressure is caution message and requires the engine to be shut down.

High oil temperature is an advisory message and requires the thrust to be reduced to try and reduce the oil temperature. If that doesn't work over a certain period of time then the engine needs to be shut down.

Once an engine has been shut down the crew should divert to the nearest suitable airport in terms of time. The definition of suitable does however vary from crew to crew. Weather will be a factor in that decision.

Sad news indeed of the loss of life at this race. I am however glad that the authorities still allow the race to take place every year and that people can do what they enjoy most.

That video is fantastic. Fair play to the riders taking part.

I'll bet the heads of the two in the cockpit were doing a bit an extreme side shuffle

What are those cars doing on the runway waddy waddy deeb deeb....bleep bleep

Lol.

The term, "Pay peanuts, get monkies" rings true.

On 31 October 2000 Singapore Airlines 006 crashed in Taiwan after taking a wrong (closed) runway : the circumstances may have been different but I guess the passengers on SG006 did not "pay peanuts". Pilot error remains a serious cause of accidents regardless the fares paid by the passengers.

I was actually referring to their 'wages' ie; nil, more so than the rediculously low air fares, but I understand your point nevertheless.

I will counter to say, all humans make errors, only incompetent fools are more likely to make them.

One of the first things I was taught when I started flying and it's a golden rule of aviation,

'Never let the aircraft take you anywhere your brain hasn't visited 5 minutes earlier' or words to that affect.

It seems to be quite a good one but in 27 years of flying it's the first time I have ever heard of that golden rule.

Pilots along with the vast majority of the population make errors every day in or out of work. It's the ones leading to potentially more serious consequences they need to avoid or trap.

Thank you for taking so much time and effort to post the detail here.

Although one must assume that the toilet smoke detector related to the fore lavatory,

is it at all possible that it related to the aft lavatory?

If roughly in the same time you get smoke below the cockpit in the avionics and smoke in the lavatory, it's safe to assume it's the lavatory that is right behind the cockpit on the left.

As I said again, I'm not an expert, just been reading all the comments on the mentioned website. Without advertising it indirectly, some posters there appear to know what they are talking about. I suggest you follow that. I am.

That could well be possible but I am not sure of the systems on the A320.

ACARS is an aircraft communication and reporting system. Numerous things developing onboard will be sent to the engineering department. If it is deemed an important component then it will be associated with an alert and subsequent checklist for the crew to deal with.

On the aircraft I fly it has both forward and aft equipment cooling available. Equipment cooling has a smoke detector but no fire extinguisher.

The aft equipment cooling and ventilation system provides cooling and ventilation for the aft electronics and ventilating air for the galleys and toilets. This air is discharged overboard from the outflow valves.

The forward equipment cooling and ventilation provides cooling and ventilation for the electrical and electronic equipment on the flight deck and in the forward electrical and electronic compartment. If smoke is detected it goes to an override mode and then it is vented overboard automatically.

If there is smoke detected in a toilet then you get a smoke lavatory message. Toilets have smoke detectors and fire extinguishers in the toilet waste bin.

Windows are electrically heated to provide anti icing. Window heat related messages require the window heat to be switched off to reset the system or leave off to prevent arcing.

VHF communication in this region is notoriously unreliable and may well have been towards the limits of range based on their current location. It would be very much a secondary task if faced with a time critical onboard event that takes up a large part of any crews spare capacity.

Purely speculation at the moment, but any smoke or fire event onboard would be extremely challenging, even for the most experienced crew.

Sad news indeed. Once the FDR/CVR are located we will get an answer.

Pilots onboard an aircraft that has suffered a rapid depressurisation will aim to descend to 10000ft, not 15000ft, unless of course terrain is an issue. Terrain is not an issue in this case.

Communication in that region can be a challenge. Distance to Cairo from the boundary between Greece and Egypt is approximately 260 nautical miles.

http://www.tv2.no/v/1039640/

That video is truly frightening. Thoughts with all the families affected by this tragedy.

Make sure to get the kids to visit the flight deck for a look after landing. I would hope the crew would accommodate that request.

Drones are great things but dangerous in the wrong hands or minds. This of course can be applied to most things in life. You can introduce all sorts of restrictions but implementation will be an ongoing challenge.

Good for her and best of luck in her endeavours. My personal experience of female pilots operating in a commercial flight deck has been nothing but positive. They are as competent as their male counterparts. Military aviation in a combat zone will provide another challenge for sure.

Just 72 passengers on a 777. Lets hope that is just the Songkran effect or things are not looking good.

Sorry to say this BUT, agree with the above, no wonder Thai are in a desperate situation capacity for a 777 aircraft but only 72 seated.

either the route has too many airlines OR Thai prices are far too high, please any feedback on the actual price on this flight for ECONOMY ??

Turbulence can happen at any time, just unfortunate on this occasion. BELT UP AT ALL TIMES WHEN SEATED

You need to take into account the aircraft possibly operated on the outbound sector with a full passenger compliment. That would preclude the user of a smaller aircraft if that was the case.

Airlines carry cargo in addition to the passenger luggage. That in itself can be quite profitable. If it was a 3 class configuration then perhaps business and first class were relatively busy. Again, generating revenue.

Glad a safe result ensued.

IT IS THAI NEW YEAR---why would it be loaded outbound and not IN ?? it was a B 777.-------1st class busy with non paying VIP-(regular with Thai)--------any more excuses----because Thai are running at a loss so what are you talking about "PROFITABLE" I agree with your final 3 words

Happy new year chap.

I just highlighted how it generally works in the airline industry. I personally have no interests in TG so don't care whether they make money or not.

Just 72 passengers on a 777. Lets hope that is just the Songkran effect or things are not looking good.

Sorry to say this BUT, agree with the above, no wonder Thai are in a desperate situation capacity for a 777 aircraft but only 72 seated.

either the route has too many airlines OR Thai prices are far too high, please any feedback on the actual price on this flight for ECONOMY ??

Turbulence can happen at any time, just unfortunate on this occasion. BELT UP AT ALL TIMES WHEN SEATED

You need to take into account the aircraft possibly operated on the outbound sector with a full passenger compliment. That would preclude the user of a smaller aircraft if that was the case.

Airlines carry cargo in addition to the passenger luggage. That in itself can be quite profitable. If it was a 3 class configuration then perhaps business and first class were relatively busy. Again, generating revenue.

Glad a safe result ensued.

Thanks, I find it astounding to hear that besides listening and interpreting their instruments and other information, e.g. from flight control, they also have to perform, admittedly fairly simple but still, calculations that seem to be easy to avoid.

They don't. Modern aircraft can display both.

So the previous assessment that the pilots have to recalculate information given is incorrect.

The aircraft has a meters switch. You press that to display metres on top of the altimeter display on the primary flight display.

The main altimeter indication on the primary flight display will display your altitude in feet.

On the mode control panel a pilot will set the altitude in feet.

On the charts there is a metres to feet conversion table.

The workload is increased when flying in a region using the metric system.

Both recorders found and weather looking favourite.

http://gulfnews.com/news/uae/emergencies/62-killed-as-flydubai-plane-crashes-in-russia-flight-recorders-retrieved-1.1693032

The landing speed of the 737 if it is light can be down to not far off 100 knots.

A 70 knot wind up the rear would easily cause a catastrophic stall with no time to recover.

incorrect, a tailwind only increases ground speed. The only way a tailwind could induce a stall is pilot error by reducing the indicated airspeed to compensate, bringing the aicraft to stall.

Furthermore a big tailwind will dramatically increase the required.distance to land but has absolutely no variable on the IAS needed to put the plane on the ground.

Large aircraft are especially at risk for running out of runway simply based on their mass.

The effects of horizontal wind shear on an aircraft close to the ground can either increase or decrease the aircraft performance depending on whether the wind is increasing or decreasing.

An increasing headwind will have the effect of increasing the indicated speed. A increasing tail wind will have the effect of decreasing the indicated speed. You have to therefore be very careful close to the ground with reducing aircraft performance.

Hi,

Firstly thoughts wilth all affected by this tragedy.

The runway in use at this airport has an instrument landing system. It's is a category 1 system which brings you safely down to 200ft above the runway where you can then land if safe to do so. The required runway visual range on the approach chart is 550 metres or 800 meters visibility depending on whether it's reported by a system component or by observer on the ground. Based on this approach minima the cloud base and visibility being reported was better than that required to commence the approach.

The approach to this runway has a warning on the approach chart that states turbulence and wind shear can be expected. This was reported to the crew and would possibly explain the aircraft remaining in the holding pattern for an extended period of time whilst waiting for an improvement.

Workload when flying within Russia is generally increased due to the fact they operate using the metric system. A crew will have to convert the cleared height above the airfield in metres to an altitude in feet above sea level.

I agree the metric system is easier. But aren't all planes instruments on imperial?

Yes this aircraft will fly with reference to altitude in feet based on a pressure setting based on sea level when closer to the ground.

Thanks, astounding information.

Wind info also in km/h with speedometer in knots?

Surface wind speeds are passed in metres per second. You approximately double it to get the knot

equivalent.

Hi,

Firstly thoughts wilth all affected by this tragedy.

The runway in use at this airport has an instrument landing system. It's is a category 1 system which brings you safely down to 200ft above the runway where you can then land if safe to do so. The required runway visual range on the approach chart is 550 metres or 800 meters visibility depending on whether it's reported by a system component or by observer on the ground. Based on this approach minima the cloud base and visibility being reported was better than that required to commence the approach.

The approach to this runway has a warning on the approach chart that states turbulence and wind shear can be expected. This was reported to the crew and would possibly explain the aircraft remaining in the holding pattern for an extended period of time whilst waiting for an improvement.

Workload when flying within Russia is generally increased due to the fact they operate using the metric system. A crew will have to convert the cleared height above the airfield in metres to an altitude in feet above sea level.

I agree the metric system is easier. But aren't all planes instruments on imperial?

Yes this aircraft will fly with reference to altitude in feet based on a pressure setting based on sea level when closer to the ground.

Hi,

Firstly thoughts wilth all affected by this tragedy.

The runway in use at this airport has an instrument landing system. It's is a category 1 system which brings you safely down to 200ft above the runway where you can then land if safe to do so. The required runway visual range on the approach chart is 550 metres or 800 meters visibility depending on whether it's reported by a system component or by observer on the ground. Based on this approach minima the cloud base and visibility being reported was better than that required to commence the approach.

The approach to this runway has a warning on the approach chart that states turbulence and wind shear can be expected. This was reported to the crew and would possibly explain the aircraft remaining in the holding pattern for an extended period of time whilst waiting for an improvement.

Workload when flying within Russia is generally increased due to the fact they operate using the metric system. A crew will have to convert the cleared height above the airfield in metres to an altitude in feet above sea level.

I'm curious as to what the captain relayed to the passengers as to the reason for diverting.

They would most likely say that a threat had been made against the aircraft and then include the landing airport and time of landing.

They would make no indication of a threat. More likely that they have a small problem, nothing to worry about but we are going to get ti checked.....

I based that on what I would do faced with this situation.

A specific rather than vague threat will be treated more seriously. That will possibly lead to an evacuation via slides, however it's at the Captains discretion based on the information he has at the time.

I'm curious as to what the captain relayed to the passengers as to the reason for diverting.

They would most likely say that a threat had been made against the aircraft and then include the landing airport and time of landing.

Sad news for all involved.

Great aircraft, challenging environment.

A true aviation legend who was most definitely made of the right stuff.

Blue skies sir.