Gerontion

You are being silly again. It is symbolic and a warning of more to come like Black Songkran. Don't act dumb.

Are you consulting a dictionary of political symbolism - and if so what difference does it make if human shit is replaced by dog shit and what would it mean if it were posted, rather than thrown - or just making this up as you go along because you're making the plot connections in CSI look uncontrived and natural.

You are a true believer but not dumb, OK?

I'm a true believer in what?

It is obvious the more extreme red shirt thugs want to kill the PM.

By throwing turds into his garden? An unusual method of political assassination.

Dear leader? You mean Thaksin?

Stupid or un-amusing? Which is it I wonder?

Nah, I think tossing crap at your national leader CAN indeed be dismissed out of hand. Unbelievable.

Based on what?

polls

Do you mean the ABAC everything's-just-fuc_king-a-ok-and-we-all-love-our-glorious-leader-kim-jong-il-styleeeeeee ones?

A small thing but into his garden is not quite the same as at him.

As far as I can gather their support has dwindle down to a hard core base who are now dangerously irrational and desperate.

Based on what?

Will lobbing turds into Abhisit's garden cause a change of heart in our dearly beloved leaders? Will they wake up tomorrow and realise that they're in hock to the army and ... well, others, and that because of this their government is illegitimate? No, probably not. Nor, I suppose, will it cause the punters at Gaysorn to throw up the barricades and join, in a spirit of comradely and fraternal love, their brothers and sisters in Dtak and Sri Saket and Prae for a fight to the death to restore some semblance of democracy to Thailand. But it brings attention and keeps the issue of the Democrats (non) legitimacy alive. And it'll probably make lots and lots and lots of people laugh. And that's not something to be dismissed out of hand - I'm pretty sure that there a lot of people here who, if it happened to Gordon Brown or to Barack Obama - who both, despite whatever faults they might have, are far, far, far less deserving of contempt than Abhisit - would not be quite such humourless, po-faced little tossers about it.

Although you will be sadly missed I am sure that you will find a suitable stone to crawl back under.

Sorry, was that one of your thought-provoking comments? No? You surprise me. This must be one then:

So, throwing a bag of sh!t is serious stuff ??

Maybe in your playground.

Well, thanks for that. It indeed provoke a thought: you have nothing to say.

Jesus, what a bunch of uptight little girls. Politics is serious stuff and I'd be overjoyed if the British public took politics this seriously, instead of meekly acquiescing to the antiseptic stage-managed farce which passes for democracy in Britain. Besides, if David Cameron became PM on the back of an army coup, and of course the nod of those who have nods which make and break coups, getting bags of shit pushed through his letter box would - I hope - be the least of his worries.

A thoroughly appropriate gift for Abhisit.

Another thought-provoking comment in the political debate in Thailand.

Oh, such razor-sharp criticism. Carefully, or you'll cut someone.

A thoroughly appropriate gift for Abhisit.

"Nope, about crap - just nothing, celebrity gossip and stating the obvious and just brainless nonsense"

So, in other words, exactly like everyone else on the planet. Except, of course, the members of Thaivisa, who put their prodigious intelligence to use discussing Kierkegaard.

Do you really need to ask why, instead of behaving like a spoilt self-indulgent brat who doesn't realise that other people exist, you should act with a little courtesy and intelligence? Because that's what mature adults do; we realise that if we all behave with a little kindness, we all benefit. Nobody's asking you to make daily offerings at the Erawan Shrine; just don't be cun_t. It's really not that hard.

I assume his hypocritical posts were in jest. He can't be that stupid.

Why not? His post is no more stupid than dozens of other posts made here every day. In fact, it's probably fair to say that the "ignorant <deleted> without a clue how to behave in a foreign county but blundering through regardless, unshakable conviction in my superiority over the locals still intact (thanks for asking)" post is pretty much a staple of Thaivisa.

Most of the respondents say they do not want to

see disunity, political violence and economic problems during this Tiger Year.

.................................................................

So some do wish to see disunity, political violence and/or economic problems??? Good to see that the National News Bureau of Thailand Public Relations Department, which I assume is a government body, is doing such a sterling job of promoting positive images of the nation.

Thais - and foreigners - aren't interchangeable units. You're not describing tubes of toothpaste. Some Thais like some foreigners. Some Thais like lots of foreigners. There are probably some who don't like any and I dare say there are a fair few who don't really have an opinion.

We are talking about the death penalty in Thailand.

We are not talking about honour killings in the Middle East and Pakistan.

I said that the issues I mentioned were corollaries which are - or might be - entailed by your post - or at least how I understand your post, namely that we don't have any purchase on this because Thais are Thais and foreigners are foreigners and our moral judgements are bound up within those roles. If you have an opinion on a moral issue it's pretty normal to see how that opinion works out in other situations and use the results of that examination to make judgements on your original opinion. There are plenty of practices which whilst perfectly legal and reflecting deep-seated cultural opinions I would have difficulty supporting and I suspect that many others would feel the same. An obvious example would be the way women can legally be treated in many countries, where their rights can sometimes be no better than those of cattle. I'm not sure how it's possible to wash one's hands of responsibility when it comes to Thailand's executing a prisoner and not do so when some women gets lashed for being adulterous. I think the discomfort most people feel about this reflects the fact that the original proposition - as I understood it - is wrong, that is: an action's being legal and being in some way reflective of or coherent with a culture doesn't seem to make it acceptable.

This forum is about Thailand. Almost all East Asian and South East Asian countries retain and use the death penalty. It is an accepted part of the culture in these parts. There's little point trying to view Thailand and surrounding countries through a Western lens. You will get a distorted unclear picture.

This is a tempting view but a corollary of it is that you have to be remain silent about everything. What about 'honour killings'? That's at least as deep a part of the culture so presumably that's fine too. What about all persecution based on race, gender and sexuality? If killing people is OK because 'it's their culture' then killing people is OK because 'it's their culture' for whatever reason they happen to be killed - assuming it's an equally accepted part of the culture. And that's not something which many people want to agree with. And if you back up this argument with appeals to other arguments (to retribution, to prevention, etc) then you also let in arguments against the culture argument (the existence of universal rights to life, for example).

you'll have to scroll back and forward to her post to see what I am replying to

Always interesting to see the assumptions people make about gender.

Hill tribes; They're routinely discriminated against by the state. The fact that others are treated badly is no justification.

Soldiers: The south is a complex situation but it's certainly the case that human right's abuses have been carried out by the military, who are essentially operating as an occupying army. More generally, the army has been no friend of democracy in Thailand and as such, it can't claim to be acting - or acting solely - in the nation's interests. The most recent coup was clearly carried out for the benefit of a social and economic elite and hence my comment about 'less (not no) sympathy'.

Prisoners: The reasons for monks not having possessions and prisoners having their freedoms curtailed are completely different and they have relationship to each other, in Thailand or elsewhere. You're not so much barking up the wrong tree as in totally the wrong forest and I find it very hard to imagine this being a consideration when Thais make arguments against penal reform.

Western judicial system: I don't understand your point. Yes, all western judicial systems are racist. Yes, this is bad. Yes, they're - as far as I can tell - better than the Thai system. Yes, they're not perfect. How does this affect the morality of Thailand killing prisoners? Surely the fact that the Thai legal system is this bad means that capital punishment is less justified than it is in European countries - or, as in your example, Australia - where it doesn't exist exactly because it's not justified.

^ Sadly, loads of people. Besides, it's a weird topic to pick for a troll, though that said, gvallee2 is having a good bash at getting things going.

I can't be sure what I'd feel and if I can't be sure, you have no absolutely no idea so don't claim that you do

Wrong answer i can claim that i know all about feelings regarding victums.

I find the hot weather and high humidity interferes with my telepathic foresight. How do you get around this problem?

have you been to a hill tribe village? Or a Sea Gypsy village?

I don't see any reason why it would have to be an either/or. I agree that minority groups are treated terribly by the Thai state but that doesn't seem to justify treating prisoners badly, too.

Or soldiers serving their country? These are law abiding people

I'm slightly less sympathetic to the plight of soldiers - and the extent to which Thai soldiers serve their country rather than a particular elite is pretty questionable - but I don't think their conditions are comparable to those of prisoners. But perhaps I'm wrong and if I am, that would be mark against the conditions of soldiers, not for the mis-treatment of prisoners.

Do you know the conditions monks live in?

That's rather different, isn't it. The point of being a monk is precisely to free oneself of material possessions.

Also I note that Thailand re-offending rates are much lower than many Western countries.

Are they? I've never seen any statistics on that and it's certainly possible but given how farcical the Thai legal system is, anything's possible. Any legal system which parades the accused on prime-time TV re-enacting crimes for which they've yet to be found guilty, or spells out yaa baa with speed pills in front of some poor fuc_ker who's only been accused of dealing has to be considered pretty questionable. Fair trial? Due process? In a system where the poor have pretty much fuc_k all chance and the rich can do as they please - I exaggerate, but only somewhat - killing prisoners doesn't seem like a good idea.

We talking about criminals here

Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't sure who the death penalty applied to.

if your daughter was raped and murdered you would be happy he stayed in a jail in Thailand rather than a jail in europe.

I can't be sure what I'd feel and if I can't be sure, you have no absolutely no idea so don't claim that you do. But that's somewhat beside the point. Whatever primal urge for retribution I might feel in some artificially constructed situation is irrelevant. "Because it feels good" is not a reason for killing people. And nor is saving the state a few pennies - and it's not even clear that killing prisoners does save money.

The death penalty is barbaric and the sooner Thailand does away with it, the better. Of course, the atrocious conditions in Thai prisons also have to be addressed.

Living in the West though many of us have been taught to be super sensitive about all this stuff.

It's obviously hard to know about any specific case - as someone said, kids get picked on for anything which differs from the norm - too short, too tall, too fat, too thin - but I think part of the problem with being called farang stems from the fact that white westerners have never had to acknowledge the fact they even have a race. For many of them they're the zero-point of race. Whites are the absence of race so coming to somewhere like Thailand where, for most of use, for the first time you're picked out by your race and nothing else...well, it's pretty disconcerting. And I think this can rub off on children.

But it is true that Thais tend to be a lot more frank with each other, and don't usually take great offence at this frankness. For example, where most of us come from, it is highly taboo to tell a woman that she's looking a bit podgy today. Not so here - not with the Thais i meet anyway.

This is very true. "Oh! You're looking much fatter and older!" isn't exactly how I look forward to being greeted...

About me? Cheers!

This topic should just end on this:

WHY would you send your kid to a cheap thai school when you have the chance to send a third worlder to a good school in a good country and come back to his own country where she will be able to make a ton of money or educate her people?

If you cant afford it, you shouldnt of had children in the first place.. Poor kids get made fun of their whole life unless they goto a really crappy school. and if people tease her her whole life she will end up troubled. and this is all your fault

You're talking shit. My wife went to Thai government schools and has both an MA and a PhD from one of the better British universities. And a pretty large proportion of her friends did exactly the same. By the same token, I went to a very expensive school in England and I've achieved pretty much fuc_k all and on top of that, I don't have two pennies to rub together. It's pure bullshit to suggest that going to a school in Britain, America, or wherever, is going to mean that she'll automatically 'make a ton of money'.British and American schools have their share of wasters, Thai schools have their share of high achievers.

And calling Thais third worlders is pure trolling.