dino67

I think the 'terrorism' warrant gives Thailand much more power to investigate financial links and overseas account holdings. I recall reading that the US has gained access to Swiss, Cayman Islands, Singapore accounts etc in it's investigations into terrorist funding.

These banks would not previously release details of their account holders.

If this is so it should be easy to track the trail of Thaksin's money and maybe go after some of his overseas assets !

If this happens I believe the gloves will be really off and Thaksin will stoop to new lows to tear Thailand apart !

The guy should be detained. There is hard evidence that he knew of a pre-planned arson attempt. He should be locked up with other Red Shirt arsonists and his part or prior knowledge of the act thoroughly investigated.

He has also admitted being present at the scene of another arson attack.

After a lengthy jail term he should be deported back home and his record completed to show he was colluding with people in an attempted uprising against the govt. Hopefully his record will see to it that he is never able to obtain a visa to visit another foreign country.

"Genghis61" The story you posted is the same as the original, the red shirt guards took the reporter backstage to protect her from the protestors that had attacked her.

The link supports the original version.

Maybe Weng meant that the guy had a small homemade handgun for his personal protection in the event he got cold feet and wanted to leave the rally !

I've seen several pics of redshirts and men in black armed with variants of AK47's. Hard to see a close up but most probably a Chinese made version, there are 3 or 4 manufactures with the most common being Norinco.

They did not get these from the Royal Thai Army but some of the semi-professional militia around the borders of Thailand sometimes carry these weapons. Pretty easy to obtain in Thailand on the black market.

Just a few thoughts, I don't want to be accused of not having a life and watching too many movies by "Khunjamespittman" again.

I don't think they will find a stash of weapons inside the Reds area. They had advance notice the army would attempt to seal off the area. Instead we have a few antagonists trying to provoke a heavy handed reaction from the army and the odd weapon.

The guys in black/Ronin warriors etc will not be found inside the red encampment either.

I wonder if what appears to be deliberate targeting and wounding of journalists is a tactic to get the press to pull out.

Guys in black appear to remain very secretive and I wonder if they are a split faction of the army they will wait for a suitable time to engage with some elements of the army and get payback for SD's wounding. High ranking officers would have learned from April 10 to be more strategic in where they place their command posts.

This little conflict appears to be just getting started !

The 'Thai Sniper' in the video posted earlier is using a variant of an M16, Model 655 M16A1. It's basically an M16 with a heavier barrel and scope mounted on the grabhandle.

Common weapon for platoon designated sharpshooters to use in Thailand. It is not a specialised sniper rifle. IMHO the guy shooting is regular army and not a sniper.

I think the Nation article is speculating that SD was shot with a 308 Winchester round which is the civilian name for 7.62x51 NATO. It is the exact same round except the military has access to many specialized projectile types, Armour piercing, HE, Tracer/Luminous, frangible etc.

The Reds are just speculating as well. Thai police marksman would have similar rifles for tactical situations chambered in both 5.56 and 7.62.

Not sure of the post you mentioned regarding heavier projectiles but someone mentioned heavier calibers for sniping. 7.62 is effective out to 1000m, 300 Winchester magnum to 1200, and 338 lapua out to 1600 although snipers have made hits on people out beyond 2000m - exception rather than common. 50's are effective out to 2000m although require specialist ammo as the military ball round makes hits on human size targets next to impossible.

As to the reds having military weapons I remember my school being shot up by a disgruntled drunk noodle stall man with an M16 several years ago. I used to buy food off him most days !

Just a few things to add. I don't want to be accused of being one of those ex-special force blokes

It is highly unlikely anyone would deploy a 50.cal rifle in an urban situation.

Map out distances on google earth from where SD was shot to surrounding buildings - 3 or 4 options to engage him from no more than 200m.

Most likely weapon if shot by the army is a rifle chambered in 7.62 x 51 (308 Winchester).

The Thai army has had training from the US marines and Australian Special Forces - SAS (SAS has trained directly with Thai snipers - Circa year 2000)

Around this time Thai sniper units were using Enfield 'Enforcer' rifles, SR-25's and Sig Sauer SSG 3000, also the odd Remington M40 all chambered in 7.62x51.

SD appears to have been shot from an elevated position if the left temple entry and right side neck exit is to be believed.

If it was a high velocity FMJ round and did not contact anything before it hit SD (passing through an object, hitting a power cable etc) it would have gone straight through and had enough remaining velocity to leave an impact mark on the concrete behind him - very unlikely they would recover the projectile or part of it from the body.

I stated earlier that using subsonic rounds with a suppressor is common if engaging a target where stealth is required - 200m is within the effective range of a subsonic round. Around the year 2000, Thai snipers were using 7.62mm x 51 Subsonic Ball (Israel) ammunition. The Thai's complained that they did not get to fire many rounds through their rifles in training and were happy the Australian's had ammo for them to practice with. Most military snipers fire thousands of rounds in training in many different situations involving changes in light, terrain, weather, distances, wind and types of targets to engage. The Thai army has some reasonable marksman.

I haven't seen a close up nor confirmation of entry/exit wounds. If it was a shot in the temple it was not a high velocity round.

It is common for military snipers to utilize subsonic rounds on a rifle fitted with a suppressor. From 50 meters away you cannot hear the rifle discharge. Effective out to 300m. Depending on the projectile type it may not have excited the skull.

Lots of the Reds think Sae Dang is a legend and protects them from the army. A bit of psych ops for the masses ! A tactical masterpiece by the army taking him out, give the red rumour mill time to work and people will be losing their will to fight leaving a smaller number of hardcore protesters left.

A HV round to the head, the guy is 99% dead !

Thank God is wasn't Burger King !

I'd say he was well out of the window before the police got to the room. No doubt he had spotters on the ground, and inside the hotel.

Not an assassination attempt, a couple of pins out of stun grenades and an empty 12 gauge SG shell, pretty standard way to open doors with special forces and tac response teams - 12 gauge at the hinges and kick the door down. The shot carried through the door and hit the top of the bar fridge.

A botched operation no doubt. Maybe Abhisit should get the Brits or Aus SAS boys to show him how it's done !

Chantorn,

I know you want to believe the army are the bad guys in all of this, but in my and many others opinion the guys in black (and the evidence appears to be mounting that this is the case) are the instigators of the trouble.

I'll say it again the first shot from the M16 may have been at the same elevation as the crowd, all the other shots including from the TA-21 are at an elevation well over the crowds head. Remember guys Bangkok is mostly flat. Pause the video and find yourself a point of reference in the background to represent horizontal - then look at the elevation of the rifles. I think these guys used incredible restraint not to respond to a grenade attack with overwhelming lethal force.

Appears to me they are live rounds.

Not many other countries would let a protest movement containing armed members stay on the streets for so long. Abhisit has every right to declare a state of emergency, impose curfew and shoot dead anyone carrying a weapon. Would not be breaking any international laws for doing so.

Sorry mate, Camera flashes illuminate the subject several meters in front of the camera !

No way would they be used to take photos of people 40 - 120 metres below, spread out around the democracy monument.

So we have a video showing what appears to be muzzle flash from the top floor of a building overlooking Democracy Monument.

Range is around 80 metres. Any half competent shooter can makes head shots all day long at that range.

How did they get into the building ? Guys in black moving around the reds without challenge all day. It would take 10mins to slip into the building before the shit-fight started and take up a position on the roof - maybe it was the guy in black who single handedly disarmed armed soldiers walking past his position while wearing rubber gloves !

Why would you shoot at the monument ? To add some weight to your story that the army used live rounds by leaving bullet impact damage on a large object.

I think some people want to believe the army initiated this, but there is a far degree of circumstantial evidence pointing to the men in black - leave it to you to decide whose agenda they further by creating chaos.

Peaceful protests and pouring blood on Govt House wasn't going to get the desired result was it ?

I think Abhisit's mistake was letting it drag on for so long hoping the movement would fizzle out, instead the Reds regrouped and had a change of strategy - the more radical factions of the Red movement have been pushing for violence all along knowing they need a heavy response from the standing govt to further their cause.

If there's enough light for camera's to pick up shots there's enough light to use aperture sights.

Soldiers are trained to shoot under pressure and I imagine the guys in black as trained Militia/Mercenaries/Rangers (former or present) are better than average shots using their own weapons - not those for general issue, meaning they are proficient in their use and the weapon is correctly sighted in.

The M16 is a very accurate weapon when not fired in fully Automatic mode.

A friend of mine current Australian SAS has been involved in the past with training Thai soldiers and in particular Thai snipers, he reports that there are some decent shooters among the general rabble.

In my opinion most of the shots would have been at stationary or slowly moving targets, a head or chest is very easy for any trained marksman to hit - remember the guys who assassinated people were not being shot at most would have been shooting from a discreet strategic position.

I'd have no problem putting a hole through a playing card at 200m with a correctly sighted-in M16.

"Chantorn"

Nothing suspicious about Thailand buying these weapons. Armies around the world upgrade from time to time. The M16 rifle is getting a little long in the tooth although it's still a very effective weapon.

The Australian army had FAL 7.62 L1A1 SLR's for many years, changed to Steyr F88's.

SAS will commonly use the Steyr or Colt M4.

The army had nothing to gain and everything to lose by shooting the Reds with live ammo. Too much foreign media around to get away with it.

The guys in black are the murderers ! I'll leave it to you to decide which side (if any) they belong to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMI_Tavor_TAR-21

Israeli Tavor TA-21

I'll say it again the first shot from the M16 may have been at the same elevation as the crowd, all the other shots including from the TA-21 are at an elevation well over the crowds head. Remember guys Bangkok is mostly flat. Pause the video and find yourself a point of reference in the background to represent horizontal - then look at the elevation of the rifles.

Appears to me they are live rounds.

Anyone else seen the video of the reds shooting up at a third floor window ? These soldiers may have been shooting at the same gunmen but from further down the street - that would explain the elevation.

The France24 video shows a soldier firing one shot from an M16 that may have been at the same elevation as the crowd - he may have shot at a wall !

The following shots are at an elevation well over the protestors heads.

I'm not taking sides but have 30+ years experience with ballistics and firearms.

In the other You tube video of the red protestor that was shot in the head look at a guy in black at the 9 -10 second mark exiting the building - he appears to be chambering a round or clearing a round from a handgun before he dissappears from sight, moments later our subject is shot in the head. It may have been an accidential discharge or he turned to quickly fire a shot in the armies direction and hit his own guy.

I have looked closely at many of the videos posted around the web.

Circumstantial evidence leads me to forming the opinion the guys in black decided to start the bloodbath by shooting people from both sides in the hope they would initiate a bloodbath. Peaceful protests wouldn't have furthered their agenda.

In the videos I have seen the guys in black can move freely around the reds indicating they are part of the movement.

Anyone who thinks higher up people wouldn't sacrifice a few of the protesters for the benefit of the larger cause is naive.

I have looked closely at many of the videos posted around the web.

Circumstantial evidence leads me to forming the opinion the guys in black decided to start the bloodbath by shooting people from both sides in the hope they would initiate a bloodbath. Peaceful protests wouldn't have furthered their agenda.

In the videos I have seen the guys in black can move freely around the reds indicating they are part of the movement.

Anyone who thinks higher up people wouldn't sacrifice a few of the protesters for the benefit of the larger cause is naive.

The France24 video shows a soldier firing one shot from an M16 that may have been at the same elevation as the crowd - he may have shot at a wall !

The following shots are at an elevation well over the protestors heads.

I'm not taking sides but have 30+ years experience with ballistics and firearms.

The France24 video shows a soldier firing one shot from an M16 that may have been at the same elevation as the crowd - he may have shot at a wall !

The following shots are at an elevation well over the protestors heads.

I'm not taking sides but have 30+ years experience with ballistics and firearms.

In the other You tube video of the red protestor that was shot in the head look at a guy in black at the 9 -10 second mark exiting the building - he appears to be chambering a round or clearing a round from a handgun before he dissappears from sight, moments later our subject is shot in the head. It may have been an accidential discharge or he turned to quickly fire a shot in the armies direction and hit his own guy.

Actually, it was Sathorn, Bangkok Christian College, 2006.

Wrong school Thighlander !

There is a guy near Rama 9/RCA area that specialises in Auto Gearboxes. I took my Audi A4 there to get it checked out. He had about 20 cars in there for gearbox work, porsches, audi, bmw, etc

Can't remember the name but I found his ad in a thai secondhand car book - the ones that come out monthly.

Sorry I can't be of more assistance to track him down. Try looking through the books at a 7-11 see if you can find his ad - it was a full page color ad.