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1 hour ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

SARASAS is <deleted>, read reviews on google

 

government style with airco, but $$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

 

ps: international program, the receptionist spoke ZERO ENGLISH

 

great, right, for a brand that pretends to learn English to kids...

Interestingly, some sales reps/receptionists for the Thai and Bilingual programs do speak adequate English for the purpose.

19 hours ago, beau thai said:

I think I read that Lanna has recently been bought by chinese. If so I hope standards will be maintained. Not 'cheaper' teachers and larger classes to help the Ro!.

 

I may be wrong but Sarasas told me that the International stream has 100% english speaking teachers, and smaller class sizes, so inevitably it costs more. Hard to judge the output value of course-until it is too late. As with any school here.

McDonaldization is the Chinese practice. There are exceptions, but I would caution most schools controlled by the Chinese.

Based on comments on Google Map, Sarasas has a reputation for underpaying teachers, perhaps, of the Thai and Bilingual programs. Their International Program seems to be much cheaper than many similar programs in town. I do not know if they are connected.

2 minutes ago, beau thai said:

can you explain what you mean by Less Cost Effective with respect to standards,  against International programme please?

Following this. Semantic interpretation seems to suggest that:

1) The function cost(standard) returns higher values for Sarasas than Lanna; and

2) Lanna upholds standards, whereas Sarasas does not.

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1167443-sarasas-witaed-school/?tab=comments#comment-15506949

A friend's daughter went there. I would suggest you consider Lanna International School if you can afford it. It seems to be the most cost effective school with high standards. I sent my kids there and I'm not British.

Thank you for the information. I will need it next month.

2 hours ago, Bill97 said:

Is that in Chiang Mai?

It is. https://www.sbs.ac.th/

Try Expat Auto.

On 6/5/2020 at 10:08 AM, tigerbeer said:

Thank a lot for your response. Apparently Lanna is bought over by some Chinese party. The two people I spoke to one sent their kid to Sarasas and another to Varee. The problem is that there is only Lanna that has an A Levels program. Montfort is a center to do the examinations but I am not sure about their coaching sessions for A-levels. They do have a SAT program I think. 

Apparently, Satit Rangsit offers A-level programs. They advertise heavily in China. 

On 6/4/2020 at 1:39 PM, deej said:

FWIW

Approaching 2 decades of dealing with any Thai banking branch in Chiangmai , have found their services and clerks  very efficent

Perhaps a couple weeks back, you opened a post on Primary Schools  which you in your opinion were  not up to your standard ????

From the above post now its the Banks turn????

If waiting (15 minutes - half an hour) + changing the email (30 minutes - 1 hour, involving signing tons of paperwork) is efficiency, then yes, they are efficient.

I wish they could move everything online so that changing an email or phone number would take 1 minute. But hey, TIT. Let's ใจเย็นเย็น. Lol

13 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Good luck with that.  Those studies were done in the west.  My experience over 20 years working in Asia is very different.

 

Quite a lot done in China actually. While conscientiousness remains important, agreeableness does seem to be emphasized. However, there are more factors influencing the dynamic than just personality, e.g. social exchange, which, I would say, is true everywhere, perhaps more so in Thailand in its raw monetary terms. Hence, there is a reason for the relationship manager to be in that position at a relatively young age. 

Competence is a rarity, indicated too well, for example, by a tail of normal distribution. It is no wonder that it usually correlates with outliers of common personality. Hence, there is also a reason for the relationship manager to be able to give us answers that do not start with "maybe" or "about" in Thailand. As long as she serves us with competence, we are quite happy with what she is. 

Again, I think it is more of a people thing than a bank thing, and recommend finding competent people, evidenced by the results he or she produces for you, build rapport, and rely upon their competence for the matters you seek to deal with.

7 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Maybe effective in the moment, but it also may come back and bite your company in the butt in the long term.  It may be years, but sooner or later, the employees she belittles will take revenge and sabotage her.  And usually it will be at the expense of the company when they deliberately don't catch a mistake she made until it costs her job.

 

I think personality studies might suggest the opposite. People high on trait conscientiousness and low on trait agreeableness, like the relationship manager, are less likely to be taken advantage of because they have competence, strategy, and teeth. Agreeable people, like her colleagues, tend to demonstrate obedience and followed instructions. The dynamic might change when her colleagues start to grow teeth, but the likelihood is low. Her dominance in the matriarchy, since there is only one senior male staff in the bank, will continue. In order for her to survive power struggles, she needs allies. She does. Three minutes after the scolding, she started discussing lunch with her colleagues, including the one she had scolded, and they decided to order lunch together.

6 hours ago, Bill97 said:

I do not find competence rare in Thailand,  it is really not that difficult to find.  
 

I do find your attitude that everything else is secondary to be sad.  How about humanity? How about compassion? How about happiness? How about humor? How about health? How about friendship? Loyalty?

 

competence is God, what a life????

 

I do not think people go to a bank seeking most of the qualities you listed above. I think they go to bank to get things done. I could be wrong.

There are a few Facebook groups for teachers in Chiang Mai that you should go to. I have seen similar posts there with faster replies.

9 hours ago, Bill97 said:

Very poor management practice And a very rude behavior.  I would never have a relationship or support someone like that.

 

Should be reported to top management for firing or demotion.

The scolding took place when her colleague who was supposed be the expert to answered one of our questions vaguely, so we could not make a decision. I am certain we were not the first to have received an answer from Thais which starts with a big "maybe" or "about". The relationship manager scolded her for her lack of precision, and asked her to call her manager to have "a sure answer" immediately. She may not be a nice person to work with, but is damn effective. I think perhaps we are after different things. We want competence, which we find rare in Thailand. Everything else to us is secondary. 

8 minutes ago, chuang said:

Nothing to do with thai culture and education.....if you are not happy withtheir services find another BANK...simple as that....????

We have tried SCB, Krung Thai, K Bank, and Bangkok Bank, and feel most of the clerks will not qualify working elsewhere but Thailand. I would say that is evidence for the correlation. In fact, we intentionally looked for staff that are behaviorally non-Thai. I understand this is stereotyping, but it has worked in our case. The relationship manager we use, for example, would scold her assistants and colleagues for incompetence harshly in front of us, which is not typical of Thai based on my understanding and according to my wife. Nevertheless, she did her work well for us, efficient and effective.

After dealing with a few banks and quite some bank staff, I came to be conclusion that many times it is more of a people issue than a bank issue. Many bank staff I have encountered lack conscientiousness, professionalism, and know-how. This is, to my understanding, primary due to Thai education and culture, and the banks' (lack of) incentive systems. Hence, finding a bank clerk who is ambitious, meticulous, conscientious, and has a growth mindset became our first priority of our first few weeks in Thailand. We are fortunate to have found a relationship manager at Central Festival Branch of Bangkok Bank who is just like that. She now takes care of all our transactions and Bangkok/AIA insurance policies with 100% precision/0 hassle. One added advantage we have realized later is that we never need to queue any more. In fact, an interesting person at a well-known used-car dealership once told me that he would never trust the computers/system, but the best people since we are dealing with people here in Thailand. I think he spoke truth.

On 5/28/2020 at 9:15 PM, Mapguy said:

Just to add some more specific questions to ask during school visits which might be to primary, middle and senior schools:

 

1.  What percentage of teachers at your school have degrees in education? (primary and higher)

 

2.  What percentage of teachers at your school have degrees in the subject area(s) they teach (middle and higher)

 

3.  What percentage of your students go on to higher education?  Where? (middle and higher)

 

4.  How many of your teachers have studied abroad?  Where? ("international" and "other" language programs?

 

5.  What is the average tenure of your teachers? (all levels)

 

6.  How many students will be in my child's class?  What is the teacher:student ratio?  How many assistant teachers, certified and non-certified? (all levels)

 

The above questions can be asked in different ways, and you will probably have some other questions which focus beyond how nice and friendly people are, particularly administrators.

Hi Mayguy, I read your list of questions a few days ago. As a teacher myself, I understand the importance of credentials and qualifications. Nevertheless, they remain secondary criteria for me due to my education in education and personal experience through public education in China from primary school to college. I was reading Carl Jung today, and happened to find a paragraph on schooling aligning with my personal educational philosophy, especially for small children.

"This is an expression of primitive identity, from which the individual consciousness frees itself only gradually. In this battle for freedom the school plays a not unimportant part, as it is the first milieu the child finds outside his home. School comrades take the place of brothers and sisters; the teachers, if a man, acts as a substitute for the father, and, if a woman, for the mother. It is important that the teacher should be conscious of the role he is playing. He must not be satisfied with merely pounding the curriculum into the child; he must also influence him through his personality. This latter function is at least as important as the actual teaching, if not more so in certain cases... The teacher, as a personality, is then faced with the delicate task of avoiding repressive authority, while at the same time exercising that just degree of authority which is appropriate to the adult in his dealings with children. This attitude cannot be produced artificially; it can only come about in a natural way when the teacher does his duty as man and a citizen. He must be an upright and healthy man himself, for good example still remains the best pedagogic method. But it is also true that the very best method avails nothing if its practitioner does not hold his position on his personal merits. It would be different if the only thing that mattered in school life were the methodical teaching of the curriculum. But that is at most only half the meaning of school. The other half is the real psychological education made possible through the personality of the teacher. This education means guiding the child into the larger world and widening the scope of parental training. For however careful the latter is, it can never avoid a certain one-sidedness, as the milieu always remains the same. School, on the other hand, is the first impact of the greater world which the child has to meet, and it ought to help him to free himself progressively from the parental environment. The child naturally brings to the teacher the hind of adaptation he has learned from his father; he projects the father-image upon him, with the added tendency to assimilate the personality of the teacher to the father-image. It is therefore necessary for the teacher to adopt the personal approach, or at any rate to leave the door open for such a contact. If the personal relationship of child to teacher is a good one, it matters very little whether the method of teaching is the most up to date. Success does not depend on the method, any more than it is the exclusive aim of school life to stuff the children's heads with knowledge, but rather to make them real men and women. We need not concern ourselves so much with the amount of specific information a child takes away with him from school; the thing of vital importance is that the school should succeed in freeing the young man from unconscious identity with his family, and should make him properly conscious of himself. Without this consciousness he will never know what he really wants, but will always remain dependent and imitative, with the feeling of being misunderstood and suppressed."

14 hours ago, bryan45876 said:

For our situation and wants, Varee looks like the best fit. Our kids currently speak very little Thai, and our main goal is to improve their Thai. Varee has 3 programs - Thai, EP, and International. We landed on the EP program because hopefully it won't be too much of a shock to them to go from American schools to Thai schools. I think around 50% of the classes are taught in English.

 

Varee has a very nice campus and security / safety seems pretty decent. We were impressed with the administration and they spent a lot of time talking with us about the pros/cons of the different types of education available in Chiang Mai and about Varee's approach. The teachers we talked to were very friendly, open, and let us observe a class for a little while as well. They had a very well organized area for kids aged 3-5 as well which is something we were looking for.

 

We didn't really evaluate the school from a perspective of where students end up after Varee as we plan to have our kids back in the US for high school, but Varee seems to have a decent reputation. We are after having our kids learn Thai and the mixed language of the EP program is what we found to be the best. With that as our goal, we ended up ruling out most of the full blown "International" programs. There are also various facebook groups where you can find parents of current students there to talk to as well.

Thank you, Bryan. Varee does look modern and neat from the outside. We will visit it soon.

6 hours ago, deej said:

Many thks for your very nice reply

With my remarks of you being picky ????

Perhaps using the old adage

Never judge a book by its cover. i should have used

BTW

My step daughter  in  her final yr exams at  Wacharita  acheived 8 straight fours.

Studying  Air Avitation at the Kings Uni Chiangrai over 8 seimesters (4yrs)she recieved marks of 3.82 overall.

She can speak and write 6 lanauges 

BTW

Presently she is holding  a  clerk.s position  in Bangkok

with Exxon Mobil Company

who she absoulately thrilled to work for 

In summing up a  normal Thai Education from Maerim Primary school to  Wacharita  then to the King.s Uni in C/Rai (passing with first class honours ????)

As i posted previously i sincerly hope your daughter has all the luck in the world

for her future studys no matter where ????

 

Thank you, deej. Your daughter is an achiever, and sounds like an outlier, instead of a normal case, of Thai education. I do not think it is common for an ordinary Thai to speak and write 6 languages, especially if she can do it with enough proficiency. Schooling is not the totality of education, but I am certain that in your daughter's endeavor for self-discovery and -development, she must have found value in Wachirawit. Otherwise, she would not have thrived according to your description. We hope our daughter will also find value in the school she chose herself, and grow vigorously.

On 5/22/2020 at 3:46 AM, bryan45876 said:

We went on a trip last summer and visited a ton of primary schools:

• Chiang Mai International, Varee, ABS, Unity Concord, American Pacific International, Lanna, Chiang Mai Montessori, Sangtit Rangsit

If you want to know more about any of them or our impressions let me know. We too want the Thai system and decided on Varee. We haven’t moved there yet, but plan too later this year if/when things return to normal. Ideally in time for the next semester to start in October. If we stayed long term we would probably switch to Chiang Mai International as we know the American system, but at first we want our kids to have more of a Thai immersion experience.

Hi Bryan, I would appreciate it if you could share your opinions on Varee. We did not get a chance to visit the school as it was closed due to COVID-19.

On 5/24/2020 at 6:31 AM, iainiain101 said:

We wanted our kids to learn Thai and so chose Varee. They have the 3 streams, Thai, Bi-lingual and International. 11 years on, there have been issues, but we are still at Varee and happy.

 

Interested to know why you didn't look at Varee?

Thank you, iainiain101. We tried to visit Varee twice, but it was closed due to COVID-19. We will definitely try it again this week.

On 5/24/2020 at 7:45 AM, deej said:

   A few  yrs back my step daughter attended Wachirawit School where  she received    a scholarship and proceeded to the King.s Uni Chiang Rai

where she graduated  with First Class Honours 

With respect  from your posts  .my view  is . that .

you are too picky .

But 

wish your daughter the very best of luck 

 

 

Hi deej, glad to hear your daughter has completed her undergraduate studies successfully. We hope our daughter could go to college in China or the United Kingdom, but who knows. It will be her decision any ways. Thank you for sharing, and yes, I am picky.

On 5/19/2020 at 9:15 AM, XGM said:

You could go to Prem if that's your budget, or to CMIS for 70% of that.

What do you expect from a Thai school? they'll all be awful. And most International Schools here are just one notch better than "awful".

 

Thank you, XGM. We are more interested in Thai instead of English programs. We went to Satit Rangsit because I was misinformed and thought bilingual schools should offer Thai programs. 

On 5/19/2020 at 12:39 PM, beau thai said:

we are happy with Sarasas 2 years in but as with any school it is not without criticism. But our lad is happy there and learning. Right now, online!

You probably know that truth is no defence here against defamation and, personally, I would be wary of the criticims ypou posted above. My advice? Take them down.

Thank you, beau thai. We will probably choose Sarasas, too. I am glad your son is loving it, and hope my daughter will love it, too.

As for my post, I have no intention to take it down. Like I said, it is our experience, and not intended to be the truth.

The Bad

Ambassador Bilingual School was the last school we visited. The Thai teacher in charge was more interested in playing with her phone than receiving us. My wife believed she had judged us by our clothes since we did not dress up properly like many Thai couples would do in such occasions. The Western teacher who showed us around the campus was professional, but not as eager to communicate with my daughter as teachers in other schools. I would guess it was partially due to the formality of the meeting and the authority dynamic she was in with the Thai teacher in charge.

Montfort College Primary Section looked charming from the outside, and we were received by a young lady warmly at Admission. The issues we had with the school is that no literature about their educational programs was provided except a simple advertising leaflet in Thai, English, and Chinese. We asked about the curriculum, textbooks, and a sampler timetable, and they had none. They seemed to have adopted a just-trust-us philosophy. What concerned my wife particularly is how come their sales representative or admission officer did not speak either English or Chinese while apparently quite a number of their students were from China if not the West. We walked out, thinking how this school, or maybe its Secondary Section, could be named in a national ranking.

Wachirawit School was the second school we visited. It lost my wife when we parked in front of the main building facing a river without a fence or wall in between. She asked what if playful children fall into the river by accident. It lost my daughter when we climbed a few dozen staircases into the lobby of the main building where parents stood in a long queue paying their children's tuition. My daughter said, "It looks like a public hospital." It lost me when the female teacher who received us at the Registrar's Office started by showing us a fee schedule, instead of telling us about the programs they offered. Needless to say, they could not show us the curriculum, textbooks, or a sampler timetable.