doolally

.

There have been many reports from members that got an unwelcome suprise when they traveled all the way to Bangkok and were turned around and sent back to their local office.

This of course does not apply if you are not getting a long term extension of stay or have one already.

now i am confused

i thought this whole thing was over the long term extension

i got my first "retirement visa" in 04 in bkk and every subsequent extension there

a the while living in nong khai

now i was given to understand that i would now have to use the nong khai disservice office

it seems ubonjoe's above quote contradicts that

I am in the process of putting together a book on isaan golf

check www.isaan-life.com

i have GPSed in the more than 30 courses in Isaan

If you want a real rip off play Victory Park in Nong Khai

500 baht weekdays for Thais

900 baht for foreigners

Reading this statement in “A Rant” by Anonymous has prompted me into

describing my own adventures in owning property in Thailand.

“A lot of people may think that this is just a tempest in a teapot in that

a foreigner can just simply put the property in the name of his Thai wife

girlfriend etc this also is against the law, even though there has never

been a crackdown and enforcement is lax at best.”

This statement is incorrect, because you can do this legally with any Thai

citizen while protecting yourself.

Part of this was mentioned in an e-mail on a recent Stickman Weekly, but

here is the entire story now that all the paperwork is complete. Also, this

took place in Chiang Mai. Laws might be interpreted differently in other

parts of Thailand.

My wife is Thai, and our marriage is registered at the Amphur. We spent some

time looking for a house and land, found something we liked, negotiated the

price and were ready to buy.

I had heard enough horror stories about losing property, and wanted the best

way to protect myself in case the relationship went sour, or if something

happened to my wife. A friend recommended a good lawyer, and off we went.

Several friends had suggested different options – such as forming a bogus

company, holding the mortgage on the property, or creating a long-term

lease. The lawyer came up with a different option.

There is a legal contract called an “USUFRUCT”. Yes, it is a strange

word, but a quick search will tell you that it is an agreement that gives

you the right to use someone else’s property. These are recognized in

Thailand. They can be written for any term from 1 year to life, and any fees

from zero on up.

Ours gives me the legal right to use the property for the rest of my life,

for no fees. It is also legally binding on my wife’s heirs if something

happens to her. After my lifetime, who cares?

Transferring the property was simple. Our lawyer came with us to the land

office. We paid the seller for the land, paid the land office the transfer

fees and my wife was listed on the property chanote as the owner. Then, we

signed the usufruct that the lawyer had prepared. We then paid the land

office an additional fee of 55 baht, and my name was listed on the chanote

as the registered user of the property. Now the land cannot be transferred

unless I sign the papers.

After doing this, we decided to go all the way, and get my name listed in

the Tabian Baan – the house book. This was a typically Thai bureaucratic

process, done at the local Amphur. Below is the gist of the information they

gave us during the process.

Amphur – “Yes, this can be done. You need to fill out this form, and

provide us with 3 photos and a Residence Certificate from the Immigration

Office. You also have to get 2 witnesses to sign these other forms, and give

us copies of their ID cards”

Thai Immigration issues these Residency Certificates only for use at other

government offices. The certificate will state the purpose that you are

using it for. You will need the usual passport and visa copies, 2 photos,

and proof that it is a legal address. The certificates are supposed to be

free – but some offices will want some tea money.

For witnesses, we got a friend of my wife and an officer at our bank to sign

the forms. Back to the Amphur we go.

Amphur – “OK, everything is here. We are busy now – come back in one

week”

One week later, back to the Amphur we go.

Amphur – “Oh, these witnesses are no good. We forgot to tell you that

the witnesses have to live in the city of Chiang Mai. We also forgot to tell

you that you have to bring the witnesses here to the Amphur to sign the

forms”

We find two new witnesses, and take them to the Amphur.

Amphur – “OK, everything is here. Come back in 2 days.”

Lo and behold – 2 days later it was done. BUT, I was not listed in my

wife’sblue house book. I was given a bright yellow house book of my very

own!!Same size, printing and information as hers, just the cover was a

different color. The official fee was 25 baht for the process – probably

the cost of the book.

Now, I will be able to confuse the hel_l out of all the clerks at Thai

government offices – vehicle registration, drivers license, etc. Most of

them have no idea that a foreigner can even get a house book, let alone ever

having seen one.

BobS

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31 August 2006

In case you wish to communicate the meaning of this 'strange' word in Thai to a Thai, the word in Thai is สิทธิในการใช้ประโยช์น (the phoenetics of this are sitthi nai kaan chai prayote). The definition goes on for a bit in Thai as well, but it basically says the same thing as the extract from the Civil and Commercial Code shown below, to wit: "the right to use another's property together with the profits of that property under stipulations whereby the said property is not harmed or damaged or caused losses thereto." This quote is my direct translation from the English-Thai dictionary I am using at the moment.

usufruct

SYLLABICATION: u·su·fruct

PRONUNCIATION: yz-frkt, -s-

NOUN: The right to use and enjoy the profits and advantages of something belonging to another as long as the property is not damaged or altered in any way.

ETYMOLOGY: Late Latin sfrctus, variant of Latin susfrctus : sus, use; see usual + frctus, enjoyment; see fruit.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CIVIL AND COMMERCIAL CODE OF THAILAND

TITLE VII: USUFRUCT

Section 1417

An immovable property* may be subjected to a usufruct by virtue of which the usufructuary is entitled to the possession, use and enjoyment of the property.

He has the right of management of the property.

The usufruct of a forest, mine or quarry entitles the usufructuary to the exploitation of the forest, mine or quary.

Section 1418

A usufruct may be created either for a period of time or for the life of the usufructary.

If no time has been fixed, it is presumed that the usufruct is for the life of the usfructuary.

If it is created for a period of time, the provisions of Section 1403 paragraph 3** shall apply mutatis mutandis.

In any case the usufuct comes to an end on the death of the usufructuary.

Section 1419

If property is destroyed without compensation being paid, the owner is not bound to restore it; but, if he does so to any extent, the usufruct revives to that extent.

If any compensation is paid, the owner or the usufructary must restore the property so far as it is possible to do so, having regard to the amount of the compensation received, and the usufruct revives to that extent; but, if restoration is impossible, the usufruct comes to an end and the compensation must be divided between the owner and the usufructary in proportion to the damages suffered by the respectively.

The same rules apply mutatis mutandis in the case of expropriation as well as in the case of partial destruction of the property or of partial impossibility to restore the property.

Section 1420

When the usufruct comes to an end, the usufructuary must return the property to the owner.

The usufructuary is liable for the destruction or depreciation in value of the property, unless he proves that the damage was not the cause of his own fault.

He must replace anything which he has wrongfully consumed.

He is not bound to give compensation for depreciation in value caused by reasonable use.

Section 1421

The usufructary must, in the exercise of his rights, take as much care of the property as a person of ordinary prudence would take of his own property.

Section 1422

Unless otherwise provided in the act creating the usufruct, the usufructary may transfer the exercise of his right to a third person. In such case, the owner of the property may sue the transferee directly.

Section 1423

The owner may object to any unlawful or unreasonable use of the property.

If the owner proves that his rights are in peril, he may demand security from the usufructary; except in the case of a donor who has reserved to himself the usufruct of the property given.

If the usufructary fails to give security within a reasonable time fixed for the purpose, or if, in spite of the owner’s objection, he continues to make use of the property unlawfully or unreasonably, the Court may appoint a Receiver to manage the property in his stead. Upon security being given, the Court may release the Receiver so appointed.

Section 1424

The usufructary is bound to keep the substance of the property unaltered, and is responsible for ordinary maintenace and petty repairs.

If important repairs or measures are necessary for the preservation of the property, the usufructuary must forthwith inform the owner thereof and permit them to be carried out. In case of default by the owner, the usufructuary may have the work carried out at the owner’s expense.

Section 1425

All extraordinary expenses must be borne by the owner, but in order to meet these or expenses coming under the foregoing section he may realize part of the property unless the usufructuary is willing to advance the necessary funds without charging interest.

Section 1426

The usufructary shall, for the duration of the usufruct, bear expenses for the management of the property, pay taxes and duties, and be responsible for interest payable on debts charged upon it.

Section 1427

If required by the owner, the usufructuary is bound to insure the property against loss for the benefit of the owner; and if the property is already insured, he is bound to renew such insurance when due.

He must pay the premiums of the insurance for the duration of his usufruct.

Section 1428

No action by the owner against the usufructuary or his transferee in connection with the usufruct or vice versa may be entered later than 1 year after the usufruct comes to an end; but in any action by the owner who could not have known of the end of the usufruct, the prescription of 1 year shall run from the time when he knew or ought to have know of it.

thanks for that

what about health certificate?

visa laws are visa laws

the bugger is thaksin and evry other thai can own land or a business in a western, the ones we come from and that is not reciprocated here

i first met surayud in 1999

he is a man of honour and beyond reproach

anyone who has information other than that should post it or shut up