k1w1

Surely the people outside would have seen anything that landed on the roof? For many of them the display of crazy fireworks being lit would have been a good reason to go/stay outside. So far no one has explicitly mentioned it.

Several people have said they saw the flames rising from the stage area which is under the balcony? If this is the case then it would have been hard for external fireworks to catch that area alight.

There was plenty of alcohol fumes in the place and four years of buildup. Plus it was not the first time that the candles had been lit inside. I think it's more plausible that the combined age of the venue interior decor, excessive heat from all the sparklers, and alcohol fumes would have either created a spark or the perfect environment for a spark to catch and take hold. If someone dropped a lit sparkler and/or threw one then it would be easy for the flame to grow.

Even a high ceiling venue can warm up quickly with enough people in and with fireworks added to the mix it is guaranteed to get hotter than usual.

It's also possible that the aircon units overheated and caused a spark to catch hold of the sound proofiing.

With the right conditions fire can also travel straight over the air so if there were enough alcohol fumes and a sparkler caught an up draft just right that could also have lit up the place.

Then there is also the possibility that someone laced the place beforehand and was intending to light it up at the end of the night when less people were around but got beaten to the punch by the sparklers that they had not planned for.

Did the band use sparklers as part of their act in the past or was it just a "bright" idea they had for this event?

It's even more sad that an underager has been taken.

With the new PM coming in on the promise of serious political reform I am starting to get the feeling that this case will be used as a way to push through the agenda. After all the reason that Thailand has such bad enforcement of laws is also the main underlying reason the PAD have been protesting for so long and the platform that Abhisit has been working from for a long time.

I can see heads rolling for the issues that are being raised here on this forum. Something that would not have happened if a Police Academy Graduate would have been in power...

The police will try to pass the buck but will they be able to dodge all the bullets that are being lined up in their direction right now.

That vid explains alot. Maybe some drunken reveler dropped a sparkler which caught in the alcohol?

But how did the ceiling catch so fast?

Did someone throw a sparkler?

Was it really arson?

The fact that this occured in a "Hi-So" area with the sons and daughters of "people of means" on that list, means a real dillema for Bangkok and Thai courts (usually rich or influential people don't end up in prison here - so what happens if the owners are equally hi-so and well-connected?). There will need to be vengeance - a court sentence or death for those responsible.

In this case it will be a question of who has more influence with the police and who is prepared to make/take a payoff to let the issue go... No one will be receiving the death penalty as that is only for people who cannot get off otherwise. It's more likely that the people/families who are affected will be threatened with death if they attempt to seek retribution.

We can expect some press coverage if things are not dealt with well by the offending parties and the blame will be passed around like a hot potato until the press stop reporting...

We can assume that if the head of the fire safety dept is a Dem s/he will be hunted by the reds or vice versa for allowing corruption in the ranks.

Depending on which side you are on the PM has been either sympathizing with the injured/family and friends of the deceased or been using the event for political mileage.

So many burn victims means that there may be a large number of injured and traumatized party goers out of the Bangkok scene for a while too. Although on that one I'm not sure as there are probably lots of playaz who will try to use it as another way to score. "Oh yeah, I was in the fire. My car almost got damaged. I'm so lucky..."

According to a person interviewed on BBC it took the rescue workers almost 30 minutes to get vehicles through because many people tried to drive off the parking lot when the fire started and blocked the exit.

What a selfish thing to do. Putting your car first before the lives of others.

So lame...

Does anyone know if the performers that were on stage at the time were able to get out or not?

It begs the question because if they could get out then the other people at the front should have been able to get out too. The problem is there are several reports that the majority of bodies were found at the pit next to the stage. Does this mean the live act just jumped up and left as soon as the fire started? Shouldn't they have been attempting to direct people out the various exits as they should have known the layout of the club fairly well at least enough to navigate in the dark...

Where were the other trained staff with flashlights to direct the crowd?

What about the bouncers? Were they able to assist at all?

If most of the bodies were found near the stage does that also mean that the performers were also trapped?

I'm guessing that several stars were on stage at midnight.

Anyone care to speculate as to how the PAD will react? Will this be enough to keep them from causing any more disruptions?

I wouldn't be concerned with PAD reaction, but rather with the Red Team's. I'm afraid they are capable as yellow one, to cause havoc and disruptions.

As I hope society in general will do - Perhaps its time for TV red shirts and yellow shirts to put the shirts back in the closet for a while, and try to work for the good of the country. A new party in power with a new elected PM deserve time to announce their policies and implement them.

So, now the PAD and the Army have forced the elected Governments from power and put their puppet in place, after I might Add, two years of blatant gerrymandering, poison court decisions, a new charter in the Democrats favour, you expect the rest of the country to fall in behind this sheep!

His first priorities will certainly be to the PAD supporters that are going to be hit hard by the recesion they exacerbated with their facist action.

Happy honeymoon to him, but he is not up to the task. Watch this space!

Reading all the other posts so far yours definitely comes across as the most hateful. If you are tapping the general energy that fuels the reds we are in for a brutal next few weeks...

Might be time for those with softer stomachs to look into leaving the country now...

I wasn't worried while the yellows were fighting for the country but now that the reds are getting riled up I am starting to see the kind of energy that runs through Pattaya rear it's ugly head. We all know that Thaksin has no qualms about giving orders to shoot above the waist...

What is going to happen?? My guess is that 50,000 red shirts will open the airport inside three days. This verdict is likely to push there so far peaceful opposition to PAD past a limit of acceptance. Dont forget, they were most likely holding there agression as their parties were in power. They are not any more, so what have they to loose. Expect some really messy goings on in Bangkok the next week.

50,000 red shirts, army, or police, violent or non-violent I don't care as long as who ever gets them yellow shirts out of the airports.

Yeah once the airport is completely destroyed I'm sure you will be getting a really cheap flight out. Not sure about the waiting time from checkin though.

Not looking for a flight in or out.... staying for the long haul.

What if people came to your house and decided to occupy it? you asked them to leave they said no, you went to court and court asked them to leave they still said no, you met their demands they still said no.... at some point are you not going to use force?

I would have long ago...

Got nothing to do with my personal property.

If a large group of protesters staged a sit in at a public facility in New Zealand the general outcome is they stay until they are ready to leave.

Using violence to force them to move on would be unthinkable.

If you feel so inconvenienced by the disruption to your travel plans that you would condone violence in order to save yourself the hassle of finding a new route then you are a tool.

Learn to read, I live here no FLIGHTS in or OUT i am here for the long haul..... I find it funny you can't be bothered to read yet you are the one calling me a tool?

Hey your the one suggesting that their should be a violent confrontation in order to reopen the airport when there are 1000's of people there that would be immediately affected by the outcome, let alone the risk of damage to the facility and the likelihood that it would further inflame and already tense situation. Yet you consider yourself in for the long haul.

You must be a tool. Either that or a narcissist.

What is going to happen?? My guess is that 50,000 red shirts will open the airport inside three days. This verdict is likely to push there so far peaceful opposition to PAD past a limit of acceptance. Dont forget, they were most likely holding there agression as their parties were in power. They are not any more, so what have they to loose. Expect some really messy goings on in Bangkok the next week.

50,000 red shirts, army, or police, violent or non-violent I don't care as long as who ever gets them yellow shirts out of the airports.

Yeah once the airport is completely destroyed I'm sure you will be getting a really cheap flight out. Not sure about the waiting time from checkin though.

Not looking for a flight in or out.... staying for the long haul.

What if people came to your house and decided to occupy it? you asked them to leave they said no, you went to court and court asked them to leave they still said no, you met their demands they still said no.... at some point are you not going to use force?

I would have long ago...

Got nothing to do with my personal property.

If a large group of protesters staged a sit in at a public facility in New Zealand the general outcome is they stay until they are ready to leave.

Using violence to force them to move on would be unthinkable.

If you feel so inconvenienced by the disruption to your travel plans that you would condone violence in order to save yourself the hassle of finding a new route then you are a tool.

What is going to happen?? My guess is that 50,000 red shirts will open the airport inside three days. This verdict is likely to push there so far peaceful opposition to PAD past a limit of acceptance. Dont forget, they were most likely holding there agression as their parties were in power. They are not any more, so what have they to loose. Expect some really messy goings on in Bangkok the next week.

50,000 red shirts, army, or police, violent or non-violent I don't care as long as who ever gets them yellow shirts out of the airports.

Yeah once the airport is completely destroyed I'm sure you will be getting a really cheap flight out. Not sure about the waiting time from checkin though.

The problem is not about loosing power. It's about the balance of power.

Thaksin and his boys have been consolidating and are not prepared to share the wealth. Hence this is a direct threat to the majority Elite who don't want to loose their wealth. They had several years to do this and the Elites watched in horror as he positioned himself to take over. Napoleon complex anyone?

The rural population has not had a taste of fairness. They have just been duped into believing that their leaders give a xxxx about them. There is substantial evidence that the rural poor are now more in debt than ever before due to Thaksinomics.

The trolls are out atm.

Who in real life considers real humans to be scum? Who would seriously consider the PAD fascists? Who would suggest that Thailand is a horrible place to live?

TROLLLLLLLLLS...

A slightly different issue is that of what will happen when the last of the stragglers are finally shipped out of the country?

Will that allow the division between north of Bangkok and Bangkok to bring fighting to the streets?

Will the Northerners bring the fight south or will the Bangkokians take the reeducation north? Will the Northerners listen if they do? Because at this point the Bangkokians have clearly proven they are ready to fight for their goals but the Northerners are struggling to have a voice that actually has any credibility.

Are the real Majority in the north who support Taksin and his cronies prepared for violent unrest? Or when push comes to shove will they lay down their arms in order to let the more educated brothers and sisters take the lead in bringing this country out of the third world.

If it comes to civil war are the Thais actually prepared to kill their fellow countrymen in order to stay in power. Whichever side they are on.

If the Thais that believe that the courts will solve the issues, are the courts moving fast enough to stop the unrest, or could more be done?

The PAD are using defensive tactics to protect the large number of people that are being harrassed by the unethical police who are prepared to use explosives and fire high speed projectiles directly at the people they are paid by the state to protect.

The police are not supposed to be used by Governments to suppress freedom and definitely not supposed to violently attack a group who is otherwise rallying peaceful for demonstrative purposes.

The PAD are simply protecting themselves from corrupt and oppressive leaders and the police are being used as the oppressors.

This is still a demonstration.

At no point have the PAD gone on attack without being first provoked or attacked. At no point have PAD used anything other than defensive weapons or maneuvers.

Until the PAD start using offensive tactics and weapons they are simply demonstrating and protecting their right to do so.

And please feel free to make oh so witty and offensive comments about the use of offensive above. If that's the best that you can come up with for justifying unnecessary and violence provoking actions by the Police and the PPP cronies then I will not be surprised. Trolling will just make your position weaker than it already is.

@sunrise07

You clearly have no idea what a demonstration is.

Everyone knows you are a troll so why do you even try anymore? Doesn't it take the fun out of it when you know that everyone who responds to you has lost all motivation to get upset at your meaningless drivel?

Couldn't have happened sooner...

If the Police were shooting limbs off people at a demonstration in New Zealand we would most likely see the Commissioner forced to resign and several officers involved forced into early retirement if not put in prison.

Why shouldn't Thai's have the same expectations for the Police force?

Popularist policies that pave the way for a corrupt govt to take power and change laws to their own benefit are as bad as vote buying.

Popularist policies that allow a good leader to take power and run an efficient and progressive govt that provides for all it's people equitably area the conerstone of democratic elections.

PPP fall into the former camp so they do not deserve to have any sympathy for the mess that they are in now. Not to mention that they bought votes as well.

Thais deserve better leadership. Currently they have to put up with a recurrent cycle of abuse. The abusers should be made to account for their actions. The PAD is attempting to make them accountable.

PAD have given 100 days of peaceful protest to put an end to the problem but clearly the actions last night show they are completely prepared to defend themselves and even fight for their goals.

If someone tells you repeatedly that you are trespassing on their rights and they are not prepared to put up with it most people will get the message and find a way to resolve the problem or back down. However Samak has chosen to "Step up" which clearly shows he is prepared for confrontation. His latest moves are designed to make him more powerful but the good news is that the army doesn't really give a **** about his goals. The Police on the other hand are more than prepared to follow his orders.

He should stop posturing and step down with dignity to save face for everyone.

America, like all democracies, is not perfect, but is without a doubt the best form of government going.

So how do you explain executive order and the presidents power to veto anything he wants?

And finally to ThNiner: It's ALREADY the case that nobody can know how any individual voted. The only things they can know is THAT an individual voted at all (though not his choice), and they know how the total of a village/district votes, so by that they can conclude how effective their campaign / handouts were. But it's not the case that elections aren't free and fair in the sense that individual votes aren't anonymous, because they are.

There are many reports of voters taking photos of their ballot on their phone/camera and using that as proof they voted to get payment.

IN northern areas they also organised to have voting booths placed in clearly visible locations while PPP members and local Police officers stood by and "assisted" voters with their presence in the voting area.

There is no question northern Thais support PPP. But the numbers would certainly be different if the PPP hadn't used money/debt to leverage votes.

Also don't forget that nearly all of PPP's seats came from North of BKK and many of them by a very slim margin which doesn't show in the overall seat count. If you look closely at the real numbers you can see a very definitive line drawn between north and south. Clearly the country is as divided as the USA.

What the PAD want is a transparent govt where corrupt politicians are not able to enrich themselves and their interests. This is a lofty goal and should be held with highest regard. Every nation in the world deserves this so all power to the protestors for continuing to keep the pressure on. This is more important than 1 vote per person which has clearly failed in many ways to prevent politicians from taking bites of the pie. This is why the PAD have suggested an alternative to the current system in Thailand. 70:30 is a silly number maybe 30:70 would be more appropriate for Thailand. hel_l why not 51:49 like the rules for foreign investors?

They can make a curfew but it is fairly pointless if no one adheres to it.

Samak clearly has no control of the people in BKK. If anything there are more people out and about today and going about their normal business.

His time is coming to an end. He might try to make a last stand but he should take a leaf out of Fukoda's book and resign with dignity.

The 70:30 split is a bargaining option for forcing the hand of the people who think that vote buying is a legitimate way to win an election. It will never wash because the 70% option gives too much responsibility to the people from the ineffectual post coup govt. Thailand needs a dynamic govt to continue moving forward. The 70% are certainly not dynamic.

This govt is not democratic and Samak is lying when he speaks about defending democracy. His version of democracy is not the same as the rest of the worlds.

A 70:30 split effectively highlights the pointlessness of the currently accepted norm in Thailand.

Eventually all Thais who accept money for votes will realise they are not participating in democracy. All the Thais who mindlessly accept what the "elected" leaders tell them will also begin to wonder why the govt keeps getting kicked out. The stigma and uncertainty that vote buying creates will cause everyone to mark it on the list as unacceptable behaviour.

The PAD are making a point and Thais are starting to get the message. However it will probably need a few more rounds before the message really sinks in and no doubt there will be more blood and disruption until that happens.

PAD are making a stand against corruption and that is a "Good Thing"

If the other corrupt govt and societies of the world were subjected to this kind of continued spotlight and were not able to use violent force to shut it down they would be squirming too. All govts should be accountable to the people. If enough people feel they need to protest the govt should listen to their voices.

Burma, Zimbabwe, North Korea. They deserve an society where this kind of positive action is allowed. The PAD is setting a standard for the rest of the world. All eyes are watching. To the credit of the higher powers in Bkk they have allowed this protest to continue without too much agitation so far. It shows a free society and Thai's should be proud of the position they have reached. To the credit of the PAD the vast majority of protestors have maintained a non violent stand.

If the Army and Police unravel this with violent force then they don't deserve to be supported as they would be working against the freedoms that are being exercised by the PAD which they are supposed to be protecting.

This series of events last night was definitely planned by the PPP. Same with the bomb in the Police Box. Like they didn't know it was planted and why wasn't anyone hurt?

Why were there only 2000 govt supporters and 35000 PAD supporters?

Seems like the numbers are not in the PPP's favor.