liana3legend

11 hours ago, Salerno said:

I guess not 5555 But being a glass half full type of guy I'm still waiting for a knock on the door from a solicitor informing me my long lost uncle third removed has left me a small tropical island in his will ????

A round of applauses! I wish.... ????

14 hours ago, A1Str8 said:

If you won't have enough money to renew then obv sell short.

That's an approach. ????

Thank you all very much for your participating in this topic! I feel it is the best issue I have raised here in order to determine my whereabout. My deceased hubby wrote it on a piece of paper with the selling price of 40. I know nobody will believe this would happen. I am a very pessimistic person, and I don't know what the outcome may be, but I am very anxious to know the result.

16 hours ago, Orinoco said:

Well sounds like time to move on.

Sell it, and start your life a fresh.

Good luck.

Thanks a lot, with your kind wish! 

16 hours ago, Salerno said:

My condolences. I assumed that would be the case but was hoping you had inherited it from a long lost uncle ... that would make the decision so much easier. Best of luck with whatever you finally decide.

Thank you very much for your kind words! I don't see many farangs who have uncles and aunties living with them here. No??? ????

20 minutes ago, Salerno said:

Yes, just read this one too https://www.thephuketnews.com/property/the-downfalls-and-risks-of-a-303030-leasehold-in-thailand/

It's an interesting article to read. I wouldn't buy a leasehold property here especially having read so many comments/problems on other topics.

20 minutes ago, Salerno said:

As I said originally, personally, I'd sell up and use the money to set myself up nicely somewhere else, I couldn't be bothered with the uncertainties. That said, I obviously have no idea if you have any sentimental attachment to the property or area.

Sadly, this is the property my deceased hubby left me. We even had our wedding ceremony at our villa. He achieved his will (departed from here that he lived the longest period during his lifetime). I do have feelings attach to this house, of course, but I need to move on with my own life. 

4 minutes ago, Salerno said:

I thought the only legal term was one 30 year term and any 30x30x30 can be reneged on at any time?

That is correct, and that is the case.

4 minutes ago, Salerno said:

 

Edit: Quick search and this popped out at the top of the list: https://www.jftb-real-estate-phuket.com/blog/thailand-property-the-lease-of-30-30-30-is-illegal.html

 

1 minute ago, ThailandRyan said:

Well it's correct if your talking leasehold versus Lease.  Was the house leased for 30 years and the 30 year lease paid upfront?  If that's the case who decided the neighbors properties were worth the millions they supposedly sold the leases for? Did I misread the information? Was the home purchased and then the land it sits on a leasehold? If thats the case and there is 11 years left on the leasehold, if the house was sold would the new owner be able to negotiate a new 30 year lease or would they only have the remaining time on the current lease.  If the house was leased for 30 years then basically it would appear your only selling the remaining lease such as a sublet.

Technically, I only sell the remaining time of the leasehold of the land, though the developer has already granted us 30 year + 30 year (total of 90 years), so the renewal won't be a problem.

3 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

So I misread the Ops post and apparently it was a 30 year lease on the House and not the land, or did I read that wrong the second time. 

It's the land lease.

8 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

9 million Thb for a 30 year leasehold, what the hell, is the land made of gold?.  I have a house with a l30 year leasehold that was only 900k Thb for the entire 30 years, or basically 30k Thb a year, or 2,500 Thb a month which is less than my PEA bill. Your 9 million Thb leasehold equates to a payment of 25k Thb a month. I sure hope the home was worth 10x your leasehold. Insanity. For what I paid for my house and the leasehold I could walk away at the end of 30 years and it would not have cost me any more than a 30 year rental on a similar house which would have run 30K Thb a month, a true bargain.  

 

Short sell the house, and walk away if you want to retain any money. At the end of the day and after 30 years I will probably have been turned to ashes, as I will be almost 90..........

You made me laugh. ???? Thanks for your math class! 

24 minutes ago, Aussieroaming said:

Work out your rental return for 11 years minus any outgoings. If the nett sum exceeds the sale figure that is reasonably achievable then renting is the best economic option and you can then walk from the lease at the expiration of the current lease.

Thank you! It's a reasonable idea, but I don't want to live under uncertainty for the next 11 years.

24 minutes ago, Aussieroaming said:

 

Or sell and accept whatever profit you get. Real estate isn't fantastic here, though some seem to make profit on sales. 

 

It's an option, most definitely, but the future is unpredictable. What if I kick the bucket in between? ????

2 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Your welcome, and my apologies, I thought I read 22 M in 2020 and 20 M in 2022, my bad.

 

Yes it would appear he is trying to nick it so to speak.

 

If your in no rush, as the sale of the next door property in 2022 sold for just under 25 M and is relatively comparable, you could shave a little off of that, depending how far back in 2022 it sold, e.g. February, May and so on, even at 5% your still ahead, i.e. around 23 + M, so you have a lot of room to work with from the developers offer of 19 M.

 

Good luck. 

Thank you! At least I know where my bottom line is. ???? 

19 minutes ago, lkn said:

Based on the most recent market price of your condo being 19M, this sounds too high.

 

I don’t know where in Thailand your villa is located, but compare with prices of staying at high end hotels in your area. I mean, if you do a one year rental for 250K/month, that’s 3 million baht for a year, and if the renter is only here 6 months/year, that gives them a hotel budget of 16,000 baht/night.

 

Based on the estimated price (19M), I would expect your place to rent for around 120,000-150,000 baht/month.

 

Now subtract your fixed cost of 40,000 baht/month, the agent fee (one month for each year rented out), and possibly maintenance and repairs (of which there might be more, when renting it out), and I think trying to sell this place is the best option.

 

And of course, if your realtor lists your place at unrealistic high prices, it will be vacant most of the time, generating no revenue.

 

As for the cost of selling, you normally pay a 3% agent fee and a 2% transfer fee for the title deed, but since this is leasehold, I don’t know how that works. There is also 0.5% stamp duty. The withholding tax, again, not sure if this is the same with leasehold, but for freehold, it’s based on years owned and the appraised value. The easiest is to get an estimate from your Land Office, they can do this.

Thanks a bunch! Actually, I live in a villa of a hotel resort in Phuket. That's why I have been talking about leasehold agreement that is due in 11 years. In fact, I promised to my realtor a 5% plus exclusivity, and I decide the selling price. I never believed in a "free lunch", but if I don't ask for it, I will never know an answer. Because the selling price was written on a piece of paper, I want to start that first. I will need a lot of luck, but I also don't want to give it up at the moment. 

57 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

So you would have been up 19 M so to speak.

 

Not a figure to scoff at if the neighbouring places achieved 22 M in 2020 & 20 M in 2022, i.e. about a 10% drop in 2 years which is about right.

 

If these are figures you can get confirmations on, it would sound like the developer gave you a good offer, that is, unless those 2 properties sold for more, much much more and he is looking to make a quick couple of M by possibly having a buyer lined up, example: If he buys yours for 19 M.

 

In my opinion no one offers close to what other properties sold for in a downward market, unless they can see that they are going to make a good profit, e.g. 19 M outlay, plus stamp duties/taxes/holding costs/agents fees, he would want to get at least 5% net after the above expenses, because one could get half that return from the banks without the risk of how long it would take to sell to find a buyer in this market for a little extra.

 

If he buys it for 19 M he could be doing you a favour, think twice, e.g. confirm what the other 2 properties sold for and not what you have heard verbally, then you can make a clearer decision whether to go back to him with a counter offer, or get an agent involved, but don't sign up with them for too long or you could find yourself stuck with a non performing agent and contract hard to get out of because of the sign up period.

 

At the end of the day, don't listen to verbal offers/stories, once you have confirmation on the above, then you can make an informed decision, but please be wary of developers, because you might except the offer, but then he doesn't perform, then offers you something lower.

 

Best of luck.

Thank you very very much! It is very appreciated. In fact, because one of my neighbors sold theirs (no renovation, no pool grouting, bad paint and etc.) for 35 M in 2020, I didn't accept the developer's offer. Currently a realtor is working with me. I will see how it goes after it's been listed. 

42 minutes ago, 1FinickyOne said:

In running your numbers, don't forget to calculate what you will earn on your own... I just never like entanglements. There is no reason why business agreements can't be simple and should be straightforward. 

Yes, of course. Do you know how to calculate the withholding tax? It seems quite difficult. 

12 minutes ago, 1FinickyOne said:

As a long time business man - I never liked any complex business deals... If I inherited it, I would sell and use the money for something that is either mine w/no others involved or invest it somewhere more traditional w/no contingencies... or more likely, a combination of both. 

 

I am a simple guy and have done well w/o complicated deals... in other words, if it needs explaining - I am out. 

Thanks a million! Yes, indeed. I was naive at first because the rental income sounded very attractive until I read the leasehold agreement with the outrageous figure. Your suggestion is absolutely feasible, and that's exactly what I am going to do. Even if I get less money from selling the property now, I should go for it. The value of the house has nothing to do with how it represents. This leasehold agreement is the killer.

1 hour ago, BostonJoe said:

 

If I was selling you this property for 12 million would you buy it ?

 

I meant "no" because when the price of a house in a hotel resort is unreasonably low, it could probably be a dodgy deal. 

56 minutes ago, FriendlyFarang said:

Looking at the 200-250k rent per month I would assume that in 11 years your landlord will ask for 40 million for another 30 years.

Are you willing to spend this?

Definitely no. I dreamt about something like that last night. ☹️

39 minutes ago, BostonJoe said:

3 questions  

Do you have the cash for the new lease in 11 years ?

No, I don't.

39 minutes ago, BostonJoe said:

If not would leasing it out for 11 years  give you the funds to purchase  a new lease ?

No. I don't think so.  

39 minutes ago, BostonJoe said:

If I was selling you this property for 12 million would you buy it ?

 

The developer offered me for 19 M, but I refused him.

43 minutes ago, CanadaSam said:

You didn't answer lkn's excellent post which would have given you (and us) a very clear picture of your situation now, and after 11 years.

 

Sorry, just realized most questions were answered by you while I was typing.

 

IMO Salerno's answer is the wisest, if you can get 20 million out of it now, it should be enough for you set up a permanent home elsewhere.

Thanks a bunch! I tend to sell my property more and more now.

46 minutes ago, FriendlyFarang said:

Looking at the 200-250k rent per month I would assume that in 11 years your landlord will ask for 40 million for another 30 years.

Are you willing to spend this?

That's a great point. Thanks a million!

3 minutes ago, Salerno said:

In that case, I'd be selling up and using the money to set yourself up elsewhere. It's not like you would be taking a personal monetary loss; renting it out and then having to find a place to live is just delaying the inevitable and adding stress to your life IMO.

Thanks a million! Perhaps this is a good idea. 

1 hour ago, lkn said:

How much do you think that you can sell it for today?

That's a difficult question to answer. My left neighbor sold theirs for 35 M in 2020, and the right neighbor sold theirs for under 25 M in 2022 because the house was pretty run down. My developer told me the other section of the same houses were sold for 19.4 M just a month ago. At first I thought I could sell it for 35 M. Maybe I have been dreaming.

1 hour ago, lkn said:

What would you expect it to rent for?

My realtor talked about 200-250K/month.

1 hour ago, lkn said:

What are your expenses on the property?

I pay about 40K/month.

1 hour ago, lkn said:

I would look at these numbers to make a decision, although I would not want to be a landlord, but it sounds like what you own is more or less worthless in 11 years, which also means that the current market value of your lease is going toward zero, over the next 11 years.

 

The question is just how to extract the most value out of it, before it expires. I would think this would be by renting it out.

Thanks for your realistic input!  I don't know what to do now....

1 hour ago, Celsius said:

Sell and move on.

 

Even if the market picks up, it will most likely have no effect on your property,

Thank you! I thought about this option, too.

2 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Is there ongoing rent to pay every month ?

If the initial 9 million has already paid the rent, why do you need to do anything.

Have you had a realization that your 9 million is gone ?

 

 

9 million was the price of lease contract at the time of the purchase. I live in my house now, but once I lease the place out, I have to pay for my own rent elsewhere.