Highlandman

6 hours ago, Pattaya57 said:

Currently Cambodia  and Laos have free entry under bilateral agreements (which includes unlimited entries). Both will change to 60 day visa exempts from 1 June which does raise the question about only two visa exempts allowed by land per calender year (maybe bilateral agreements stay in place as well?)

Lol! Obviously Lao and Cambodian passport holders will continue to be allowed to do unlimited border runs. There is no way 2 visits per year could be enforced for them as they're a neighboring country. 

I'm confused about the supposed addition of Laos and Cambodia to visa free entry into Thailand. For almost 20 years, nationals of both countries have been able to enter Thailand visa free, so the insinuation, based on the info graphic that these 2 countries are only now being afforded visa exempt entry into Thailand is highly misleading. 

So far, Laotians have been permitted unlimited 30 day visa free entry, while Cambodians have been receiving 14 days and vice versa for Thais visiting those 2 countries.

What will change here? If they meant that they too will receive 60 days visa free, that would be a significant change BUT it doesn't change the fact that Laos and Cambodia are 2 nations who've been eligible for visa free entry into Thailand for many years and with no official limit on the number of entries either. 

On 5/20/2024 at 4:22 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Yes many, and yes.... Most public health agencies -- including the Thai MoPH -- still recommend mask wearing and social distancing as effective measures to reduce the risk of catching COVID.

 

"For safety sake, he suggested the wearing of face masks in crowded places, on public transport and in hospitals and nursing homes for the elderly. Washing hands often is also recommended, as are rapid antigen tests if flu-like symptoms develop, he added."

 

 

Of course these institutions "still" recommend mask wearing. They'll recommend Thais wear their [masks] for life, because there will literally never be a good reason to remove them, according to the MOPH, which is by far the most hysterical fear mongering health agency of any country in the world. No other country even comes close, not China, not Japan.

Mask wearing is Thailand's national religion.

9 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Is there any hysteria about road deaths and the highway patrol's absolute refusal to patrol the highways to insure safety? 

 

Was there any hysteria about the recent burning season, which was the worst in memory? 

 

No. Why? For one, they did not have huge Big Pharma companies with an agenda. 

 

I would not put another baht into their pockets, unless this was more comparable to smallpox...

Well said sir. 

On 5/20/2024 at 2:02 PM, shackleton said:

When I went into my local shopping Mall even the staff there advised me to wear a mask 😷 

On this occasion I was not wearing the face mask but soon reverted back to wearing it 

Better safe than sorry 

Are you serious? What mall is this? If this story is true then I'm not coming back to Thailand. I'm not going to wear a [mask] again and especially not to enter a mall!

If it were me I'd have told the staff how nonsensical it is to wear a mask (they're useless) and that I'm not going to wear one for the rest of my life (many Thais will be wearing them for life).

On 5/5/2024 at 12:34 PM, Yellowtail said:

If you use a credit or debit card to load the card, it is cashless, yes? 

 

But if you deposit cash into your debit account, or pay your credit card with cash, does it make it not cashless? 

 

So I think it fair to say that per your definition, at a typical food court, some of the cards are cashless and some aren't, correct? 

I've never loaded a debit or credit card with cash. Cards take money from my bank account/credit card account and could function/be topped up/paid off regardless of whether physical cash is available or not.

A debit or credit card functions purely as a cashless device.

A food court card can also be called a "cash card". As I've mentioned too many times, you start with cash and end with cash. Just because you're using a card for that brief period to pay for your meal or drink, doesn't mean you can bypass the use of cash. Therefore, not a true cashless system and NOT what is meant by cashless (not withstanding the QR code options you have now; I'm talking about food courts that don't have QR codes not to mention how you can go back decades before QR codes and these food courts required you to give cash to get a card to pay).

Which doesn't happen with digital cashless payments because these do NOT require cash handling at any point in the transaction. 

From debit and credit cards to digital wallets and QR codes they all allow you to bypass the handling of cash if you so wish.

A don't understand the need to be so pedantic and go back and forth on something that is so simple to comprehend. 

On 5/3/2024 at 6:10 PM, Yellowtail said:

How so? 

Indeed. 

A debit card, a rabbit card and a food-court card are all effectively stored value cards, meaning you do not have to carry cash i.e. "cashless"

 

A credit is arguably a stored value card, only with the stored value being credit. 

 

The Starbucks app has a stored value digital card that you can reload with a credit card. How is this not cash-less, while a debit card is? 

The Starbucks stored value card is definitely cashless. Why are you making a distinction I never made?

A stored value card where you have to refill it using cash is technically "cashless" but it's not really what is meant here because cashless in this context generally means a digital payment using either a card or electronic means such as a QR code. 

Thus cashless means it does not involve the use of physical cash at any stage. 

23 hours ago, lkn said:

You can actually pay using PromptPay in the food courts I have visited (i.e. the QR code payment that deducts money from your bank account), I also believe they have supported various digital wallets like LINE Pay, and the Rabbit card (at least when I got my Rabbit card some ten years ago, I was told that it could be used in some food courts).

 

But I don’t think your definition of “cashless” is quite what people normally think of when saying cashless. Cashless means that you do not give physical cash to the vendor when paying for goods and services.

 

It doesn’t matter if the digital wallet or plastic card used for the payment is connected to your bank account or has been prepaid / topped up beforehand. As of such, my Thai bank account is really just a “prepaid wallet” that was topped up with Wise… oh… and my Wise debit card, is that cashless when I use it? Because I regularly have to top up my Wise account as well…

I beg to differ. Your definition of cashless isn't what people normally think of as cashless.

Cashless means not involving the use of cash in any way. Using cash to purchase a card and getting cash back at the end isn't what people think of when "cashless" is meant. You're still exchanging cash for something, in this case a card.

Money in your bank account isn't cash. 

So if you're using PromptPay to pay for food at a food court, then yes, that's truly cashless. 

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Well, then nothing is cashless. 

 

What is an example of a cashless system? 

It's a semantic difference.

True cashless systems bypass the use of cash altogether; meaning QR codes that deduct money from your bank account or digital wallets that charge your bank account or debit or credit card. 

Another example are physical debit and credit cards and in the past, cheques or checks as well.

I was going to add, there is a Thai payments network called "Thai Payment Network"  I understand all locally issued debit cards are on this network in addition to whatever internationally recognized payments network they're associated with such as VISA/Mastercard or UnionPay.

This means that theoretically, it's possible to limit acceptance to domestic cards (as is done in Myanmar) to those on the TPN, meaning those transactions would be conducted through that network and NOT Visa/Mastercard etc 

In such cases, signs would indicate acceptance of TPN and there would be no Visa or Mastercard signs as these aren't accepted.

If memory serves me right, a small number of merchants did exactly this, maybe 5-10 years ago, but since the proliferation of QR codes and the fact most small businesses have never accepted cards to begin with, you'll now find that when cards are accepted, the major international networks are covered in pretty much all cases.

Of course, sometimes you may find VISA cards are accepted but not Mastercard, though this applies only in a minority of cases.

Essentially, if a merchant accepts credit /debit cards, your card will be accepted but acceptance is still relatively limited compared to cash and QR codes.

QR codes seem to be accepted by 90-95% of merchants in Thailand these days. 

QR codes can't be used to pay road tolls in Bangkok and intercity expressways. For those, you need to use either the easy pass, M-Flow (only on 2 expressways so far) or cash; an increasing number of tollways accept tap credit cards too (Visa/Mastercard). From what I've seen, ALL cash booths are being converted to eventually accept credit cards too. So far more than half already do.

2 hours ago, eisfeld said:

 

Phuket and I said debit card not credit card.

Credit and debit card acceptance started around the same time. I don't recall when exactly, might have been around 5 years ago. 

10 years ago, 711 was cash only.

1 hour ago, SingAPorn said:

Think that it is really time to leave Thailand as they are going to far in harassing foreigners with money that to. They prefer the broke quality Russians ? fine. Why should we continue to be harassed as such here ?

Russians can only get anything done or make payments/withdraw money in Thailand if they have a UnionPay card.

UnionPay is Chinese.

Visa and Mastercard as well as Diners Club and Amex have all left the Russian market.

Mir I think it's called is the Russian payments network. I've not seen it accepted anywhere in Thailand, but China's UnionPay is widely accepted.

Any Russian previously holding a Visa/Mastercard/Diners Club or Amex card would have already switched over to a UnionPay card by now.

38 minutes ago, george said:

 

That was the rule then, now only local credit cards over 200 baht purchase, or True Wallet.

Nonsense. Can you read? He used his card 2 hours ago. Unless something has changed in the past 2 hours then there is no issue.

We get it; the digital wallet has changed.

What has NOT changed and most likely won't (and can't) is the acceptance of PHYSICAL VISA/Mastercard cards issued in other parts of the world. 

Again, a terminal capable of swiping a locally issued VISA or Mastercard will be equally capable of swiping such a card issued outside the country. How can there possibly be a difference when it's the same company?

Besides, VISA and Mastercard are American companies.

If Thailand wants to limit acceptance to its own cards then it would have to limit to debit cards issued on their local network. 

For example, Myanmar of all countries has their own payments network called MPU. Their cards can ONLY be used in Myanmar. They won't work for anything outside of Myanmar, not even ATM Withdrawals. Conversely, MPU is often accepted by merchants who won't accept Visa or Mastercard.

While the sanctions that apply to Myanmar aren't as strict as they were pre 2013, VISA and Mastercard are effectively NOT accepted anywhere outside a few hotels and malls in Yangon and Mandalay anymore.

This contrasts with the pre Covid/pre coup situation where credit cards were increasingly accepted even in places like Dawei and Kawthaung.

42 minutes ago, yabbra said:

 

I last physically used my overseas debit card at the 7-11 about 2 hours ago & have done so regularly for the past 2 years...Not sure why people are saying debit cards aren't accepted there...As long as your spending over 200 Baht there's no issues at all.

Other than the digital wallets and all, it's obvious that when a VISA or Mastercard logo appears, ALL cards on those networks regardless of where they're issued are accepted.

There's no such thing as a "local VISA network" that excludes foreign issued VISA cards.

The only times I've seen such restrictions are online; for example, a US based merchant only delivers domestically and thus if you use a foreign issued card with a foreign billing address its blocked (although I've seen sites where there is a work around).

More commonly though, foreign issued cards are accepted but shipping is only within the US, meaning for deliveries to Thailand you'd need to use a parcel forwarding service.

32 minutes ago, george said:

 

That was the rule then, now only local credit cards over 200 baht purchase, or True Wallet.

Any credit card can be used regardless of where its issued. They use the VISA or Mastercard networks. If I'm not mistaken UnionPay also works. 

Again, if you use the physical card. I'm not talking about the wallet which is obviously the purpose of this thread you started.

6 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

You'll find younger people prefer not to carry round change, do you keep it in a purse?

In a wallet.

12 hours ago, proton said:

 

Sounds like BS, maybe a Thai got the mortgage and he put down a deposit and makes the payments.Those figures are crazy, he will have burned through his money before the next high season comes around.

Yes even well established foreigners/expats who are CEOs of successful Thailand based companies earning 500,000+ Baht a month struggle to acquire mortgages through Thai banks as the policy seems to be "mortgages for Thai citizens only".

UOB and MBK finance do mortgages for foreigners but down payments can be as high as 50% as Thai lenders don't do no deposit or low deposit home loans. The highest I've seen is 85% being financed but usually it's lower.

The chances someone who washed up in Pai on a tourist visa acquiring a mortgage with no work permit and a visa type that requires him to do regular visa runs is slim to none.

5 hours ago, lkn said:

 

The question was “why would any vendor not accept cash”, and the answer is that for people serving food, there is a hygienic reason to not touch potentially dirty cash, and therefore many Thai food courts are literally cashless.

 

Yes, you can buy a prepaid card with cash, but you can also buy a prepaid VISA or MasterCard with cash, or maybe a gift card, so by that logic, it’s hard to find something truly cashless. But my point remains the same, there are good reasons for some vendors to refuse cash that the customer should also appreciate.

Food courts aren't cashless. You're merely paying cash to buy a stored value card and you receive change in cash when you return it. Your example isn't what is considered a "cashless" payment method.

4 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

you another one of those elderly farang who won't change with the times?

 If you're struggling with coins it's probably because you're developing arthritis or something.

Normal people no matter their age have no issue with them.

Even I won't, when I visit Switzerland soon, which uses the Franc, the currency with the most coins in the world. Even decades ago, the 5 Franc denomination was already a coin.

Just now, george said:

 

So the staff can't steal the cash...

Another looney conspiracy theory? As if the well trained staff of a chain restaurant or Cafe such as "After You Cafe" which has like a dozen cameras everywhere would even think of doing that.

Thais are honest people for the most part they don't steal.

11 hours ago, george said:

 

As mentioned above, I don't use cash anymore, haven't used it for approx 6 months or so.

 

Most PromptPay these days, and card for online purchases, plus an excellent Revolut account.

Well that's a strange choice of yours. It also makes your life more complicated.

You might want to reconsider.

People like you are the reason a cashless society could be upon us within just a few years (China is already there).

Already there is a proliferation of cashless cafes and restaurants (mostly located inside malls, though not exclusively) and their number grows by the year.

Fortunately, these places accept debit and credit cards as you would expect but the fact they don't take cash is deeply concerning. 

On 5/1/2024 at 10:09 PM, eisfeld said:

 

That's not true. I used to be able to use my debit card years ago.

At 711 or where? Credit card acceptance at 711 only began relatively recently. "Years ago" only cash was accepted.

3 hours ago, atpeace said:

Using cash is overly complicated if you have your phone with you.  A 100 baht electronic payment is clean and simple.  The local vendors seem to like it.  In many cases they beg you to to avoid dirty cash and locating change for your bills.

 

Simplicity is king but I get why some enjoy swapping dirty bills.  They are comfortable with what they have always done.  Bet that British man that slapped the taxi driver over a 100 baht bill and was taken into custody wishes he would have gone the simple electronic route.

Absolute nonsense 

If you find it difficult to pay with a 100 Baht bill something is wrong with you.

Local vendors absolutely prefer cash. I've never had a vendor tell me otherwise. 

Also, I don't always carry my phone and I usually don't have excess funds in my local account nor do I topup my phone balance unless I wish to browse the internet or use GPS on my phone. 

I usually withdraw the entire balance of my account very quickly and that won't be topped up until I next make a transfer. More reasons why this absurd QR code system doesn't work for me.

Credit cards make sense because you're using borrowed money, which you pay back later.

QR codes are for lazy people who can't be bothered going to the ATM. They make money management difficult.

25 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

how so? It's a tourist ghetto for a particular type of person. My brother had a business there for nearly 10 years and says the police are corrupt and do favors for cash. Politicians are corrupt too and do favors also. Stupid place to live imo.

Interesting. Yeah, I've only been there once and would never consider living there. If I were to reside in Mae Hong Son, it would be somewhere like Mae Sariang (my favorite town in the province), Ban Rak Thai (my second favorite) or Mae Hong Son town (quite a decent place in its own right).

Pai is like the Phangan of the north. Full of druggies, new age hippies and weirdos who believe they can change the world.

8 hours ago, smew said:

hypocrisy: it was thank you Mr. !!!! when B Gates criticized Thailand about their multiple electrical wiring showing    

I wouldn't place that in the same category. Bill made an observation, it wasn't a criticism per se.