Nakhon1

In your circumstances if you cannot provide evidence of 65k/m income and go part income part savings route they WILL require the savings to be on deposit for 3 months before granting an extension. This is only waived if you are already on an extension as a retiree.

As he will be doing a change from a extension of stay based on business to a "O" visa. AS OF NOW, he will not need to have the funds in the bank for three months. This 3 month rule of the money in the bank would only apply when he applies for the extension of stay based on retirement permit.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Exactly! Thats what I said, extension. Thank you for confirming my post.

As for confirmation of income. Reliable reports I have received (down the pub -where else) do not support your assertion. Perhaps BKK immigration are just making life hard for your clients, thinking that if someone uses a lawyer for something so damned easy maybe they have something to hide. Just a thought.

I am not 100% sure but the Double taxation treaty is for income earned in Thailand.

Full details of the applicable Double Taxation agreements can be found at:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/dtmanual/dt18650+.htm

You are right not to be 100% sure as it covers just about every conceivable scource of income.

Another point the OP can raise with Tony Blair. If you are resident in the UK and are not working or retired you are credited with NI contributions for 5 years from 60-64. These count as qualifying years and can bring you up to, or nearer, the 44 years needed for the full state pension. If you live in Thailand you aren't.

If you live in Spain, for instance you do not have to pay UK taxes on your pensions but instead are required to declare the income to the Spanish tax authorities. No prizes for guessing how many expats do.

If you live in Thailand you pay UK taxes

These are small prices we pay for living in paradise.

The British Embassy do not notarize your letter. They write a letter to immigration on your behalf. You need to provide credible evidence of your regular income (e.g letter from pension provider/investment company/bank or whatever).

If Immigration also wish to see this credible evidence it is a new requirement for British citizens.

I believe it is only a requirement for US citzens who only have give their word at the US embassy. Personally I would unquestioningly accept their word.

In your circumstances if you cannot provide evidence of 65k/m income and go part income part savings route they WILL require the savings to be on deposit for 3 months before granting an extension. This is only waived if you are already on an extension as a retiree.

Sbk wrote

Not alot of point in pressing the issue on a Saturday night as your friend certainly won't be able to do anything about it tomorrow, will he?

Sunbelt is probably off enjoying a good night off, so why not give him a day or so to reply?

LOL. I wish. In fact I'm at the computer at one of our restaurants. Its now 11:15 p.m. Have been out all day in the hot sun selling sandwiches at a school. Time to go home and get a hot shower.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Thank you for taking the trouble to reply to my several posts on a Saturday night.

For SBKs benefit, I do not recall giving Sunbelt a deadline for responding and I certainly didn't stay up to read the replies.

you raise a mumber of issues.

One example of discrepancies in interpretation of Police Orders is Clause 7.17(4). Imm website says child must be living with the family yours says something to the effect that the child must not have lived with the family.

If your interpretation of the Orders is correct it mean an alien can apply for a visa on the basis of being a child of his/her spouse which means he would have to marry his Thai mother!!!!.

I have never stated there is reference to income requirement for living with Thai child in the Orders, as you claim. It is a requirement specified in documents required for visa extension for "support" Thai child.

I accept revision of the "required documents" is required.

I am convinced that the revision will clarify that an alien parent of ANY age can apply for extension to support child and that the age of 50 refers to an alien seeking support from a Thai parent, in which case the parent should be aged 50 or over (no change then). Further it is inconceivable that Thailand will allow extension for a farang in any instance unless there is evidence the farang can support himself or be supported by a family member. Time will tell.

You twice accuse me of contradicting myself. I do not believe I have, but if so it is a habit I must have picked up from the regular contributors to this worthy site.

He said that there were people in the town who were living with the mother of their children and not married, they had never worked or intended to, or paid any contributions at all, were living in local authority housing and that he HAD to give them money.

There are immigrants to the UK who have come into the country illegally who get more from the state than I do.

You should be content that the Income Tax you are paying on your 2 pensions and, in 2 years, your state pension is going to good causes.

Me? Living in Thailand has taught me not to give a ######. I come across too many ex-pats who endlessly whinge about the UK. Whats the point? You're here now so loosen your girdles.

So far as making representations to the UK govt about pensions increases - UK expats in OZ have been whinging for years and look where it's got them. And does anyone seriously think the UK Govt would give two hoots what anyone from LOS says. I think we all know what folks back home think of us.

You and I choose to spend a large proportion of our pensions propping up the Thai economy rather than spending it in the UK so it's crass to expect UK to up your pension in line with cost of living or earnings in the UK.

Nakhon1:

You have posted twice in one hour on a Saturday night. Give people a chance to see your post please.

The Immigration web site still reflects the requirements in place before the recent changes.

3 times now

The Immigration website includes a full translation of the new Police Orders. It seems curious that the required documents section should not have been updated UNLESS it does not need updating. It, to me, appears quite compatible with the Orders. The Orders make no reference to income in respect of Thai child, but that does not mean there is no income requirement.

I do not apologise for pressing this issue which is a matter of concern to a good friend of mine. I am actually hoping I am wrong. I am attempting to play devils advocate.

What is a congerstion charge?

The OP is correct. Pay the same premiums, get the same benefits.

A congerstion is how a dyslexic spells congestion.

The state pension is not funded exclusively from National Insurance contributions, so your point is invalid. Why do you not ask why someone paying NI contibutions on 50k/year should only get the same state pension as someone earning 15K.

Not fair is it?

I enjoy a good life here in Thailand and am quite content that any increases I would have received were I in the UK should go to those unfortunates who do not enjoy the benefits of low tax Thailand.

Edit by Nakhon1 for spelling

OP wants to have his cake and eat it.

We have been doing it for clients. But remember the extension is not to support your child. Its to live with them. This why you do not need funds in the bank or income of 40K per month. This is for the extension of stay permit.

If you are changing to a "O" visa than you need 400K Baht in a bank as they only have the category called support of a Thai national. The new rules for change of visa have not come out yet for living with your child.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Sorry to labour this point but it is of great importance to many forum members.

We accept that recent Police Orders make no reference to income. But on the immigration website, it stipulates that evidence of income be provided to support the application, as you will be aware.

An alien may intend to live with his Thai child but either one is supporting the other or they are jointly supporting themselves.

Is the Immigration website, to your certain knowledge, or in your professional opinion wrong?

Is it not possible that you may have had some success in obtaining extensions without the required documentation because some immigration police are also confused with the latest requirements?

How many extensions of stay based on "living with" a Thai child have you successfully processed since 1 Oct, where evidence of income has not been ofered or requested?.

Have you attempted to obtain extensions for persons under 50 on basis of "supporting" Thai child and if so how many have been declined? Have you refused to act on behalf of those under 50 because of your interpretation of the regulations?

My intent is not to impugn your integity or professionalism, but simply to allow us to put your comments into perspective.

Well we have done it for our clients without "line the pockets of you know who" A legal firm is suppose to make your life smoother. If we didn’t we wouldn’t have a job.

Our professional fee is 6,500 Baht. On the renewal next year its just 3,900 Baht. Please don't surmise " if you pay a lawyer to represent you which means a ridiculous fee " as not all legal fees charged by lawyers are the same. By the way, with us, if we don't get you the extension, no professional fee will be charged.

Unfortunately not all the officers know this new law yet. Bottomline, if you are over 50 years old, have a non immigrant visa and have a Thai child, no reason why you should ever be denied.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Are you stating that the Immigration Police website is wrong and there is not need to produce evidence of income for an 12 month extension of stay to live with/support a Thai child?

Are you stating as a fact that your firm has obtained 12 month extensions of stay without evidence of income from either or both an alien applicant or any Thai family member?

Further the are contradictions between your translation of the new police Order and that on the Thai Immigration website. Do you insist yours is correct?

You write a third person letter that you are a international consultant. You then go to your Embassy and get a "income certificate" from the embassy notorized. This will work.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

I do not share your confidence. But doubtless you have more experience in dealing with the Scandinavian embassies thasn I do.

If you are in receipt of a UK state pension then the pension rules are about to be changed shortly.

The number of contributory years needed to receive a full state pension will be reduced to 30 which may help some of the guys planning to retire to LOS.

Sadly there is to be no change in the current situation in that if you live outside the EU after retirement there will never be any increase in the rate of the pension originally awarded.

You are not entirely correct. There are several countries outside the EU where UK retirees receiving state pension enjoy cost of living increases.

Could I ask that all EU citizens reading this contact the minister via the link shown and express their disgust that guys who wish to retire to a country where they will have a better quality of life and not be a drain on the social services of their own country are being unfairly penalised for exercising their options to do so.

Why in heavens name should someone from Malta or Latvia, for example, give two hoots about your concern.

I am a UK citizen who will be in the situation you describe but do not share your disgust. If you want the pension increases go back to the UK and pay 17.5%VAT on just about everything, double the price for petrol or diesel, council tax, congerstion charges etc etc etc.

Enjoy your better quality of life and stiop whingeing.

Since I am working as a self employed international consultant, I do not have a regulaer monthly income - but I make much more than 480K annually. Does this mean that I can not transfer larger amounts 3-4 times a year - but rather divide it into 12 equal transfers of no less than 40K ???

As Lopburi says you will need to have your income certified by your embassy. You may wish to contact your embassy to see what they accept a evidence of income (unless you are US when they apparently take your word for it).

You do not need to make monthly payments into your account, only occasional international transfers and regular withdrawals to demonstrate you are not living off income from illegal employment in Thailand.

I think I'd fit into that group. At least three of the guys there would admire my haircut.

I assume you are refuring to the three " solar powered sex machines " in the forground of the photo?To work properly you have to wax the top on occasionaly.

Which one are you?

Can anyone confirm that this is the the right way to understand the new law, - being an "alien" married to a Thai woman:

Order of the Royal Thai Police Headquarters No. 606/2549. Re: Rules and Conditions in the Consideration of Alien Applications for Temporary Stay in the Kingdom of Thailand

Chapter 7.17 (6)

In the case of an alien married to a Thai woman, any party or both must have a total income of not less than Baht 40,000 per month, except for aliens who entered the Kingdom before this Order came into force and granted a permit to stay in the Kingdom. If the alien does not have the minimum income above, he shall have an account deposit in Thailand in the name of either party or both of not less than Baht 400,000. Proof of account deposit for the previous 3 months is required.

-----

The (very unpolite) Immigration officer at the Mukdahan Imm.Offce REFUSED to receive my application for extension of NonImm. O when I did not show evidence of a monthly income of 40K. In my documentation it was legally proof of bank deposits much more than 400K that has been transferred from abroad and in over 3 months.

Anyone with similar experiences?

No similar experience. But a couple of questions for clarification.

Are you currently on an extension of stay (which is the "permit to stay" referred to in the Police Order) or are you attempting to extend a 90 day entry on an O visa to one year?.

If the latter then I am afraid you must go the 40k/month route. If the former you have been either wrongly refused (assuming the 400k has been in your a/c for 3 months) or unreasonably refused. It is not clear (to me) if the 400k has been in your a/c for 3 months or has been paid in over 3 months which would not qualify - however, through, this forum it appears that immigration are not enforcing the full 3 months at this time it being unreasonable to assume those already on extensions will have learnt of the new requirements.

Additionally if the former 400k must have been in your a/c for the 3 months.

It is recommended to hold onward/return tickets.

And what exactly would that mean to a check in agent?

Oh my gosh you guys have made me so happy!

Sorry to ask another question but this is my first time travelling anywhere where visas are needed! Please let me know what you think of this plan

Chiang Mai 1 month

1 week in Cambodia

re enter Chiang Mai for 1 month

Trip to KL- Get the visa (fingers crossed!)

Indonesia for 1 month

back to Chiang Mai for the next 90 days and then home

If I can't get the visa, any suggestions for a nice 3 month stay until I return for my last month in Chiang Mai??

Were it me, I'd try and obtain a visa in Cambodia or wherever in late Dec (you must exit Thailand on or before 26 Dec I assume). As you are obviously a genuine tourist you should not have any trouble and it will put your mind at rest. After that is used you can get another 90 days of visa exempt entries.

In January there will be a large number of habitual 30 day border runners visiting SE Asian consulates to pick up visas. It may be by the time you get to KL in February the consular staff may be so heartily sick of 'em that even genuine tourists may be given a hard time. Who knows?

Yes, you do need a ticket out of Thailand to satisfy the AIRLINE, who would have to pay a fine of Baht 20,000 and fly you out if immigration for whatever reason does not let you it.

No, bus ticket is not enough.

You need a ticket out of Thailand to satisfy IMMIGRATION rules which are not enforced by them by all accounts.

Whether the airline looks for a visa or not depends on the airline or the check in staff. I have no idea what appears on the screen when you check in. I can report that in the innumerable times I have checked in for a Thailand bound flight (albeit with a visa), on only 2 occasions did the check-in agent flick through the passport to find a visa or ask if I had one. Because of past reading on this forum I always look out of curiousity.

That said, my advice to anyone is don't chance it without a visa or onward ticket.

And to add confusion upon confusion.

Question: Where did I lift this from?

Evidence of travel from Thailand (air ticket paid in full)

Answer: From Ministry of foreign Affairs requirements for issue abroad of a TOURIST VISA.

So if Thailand wants to get really nasty with the waves of 30 day borders hoppers expected to converge on Penang in January they need only enforce this rule.

Incidentally the London Embassy website also specifies this as a requirement for issue of a tourist visa but I have no idea if it is enforced.

.

In your case, age is the crucial factor. If you are 50 or older, you can apply for an annual extension of stay. No proof of income or money in the bank required.

If you are younger than 50, you cannot get an extension based on being the father of a Thai child, not even with proof of income or money in the bank. Your alternatives are

Two issues here.

Firstly, to obtain a one year extension of stay to support a Thai child my understanding is you DO have to provide evidence that you have an income. The amount and what constitutes proof are not prescribed, it being up to the immigration officer to decide what is reasonable in your circumstances. (Fair? If you intend to take a Thai wife or fiancee to the UK you have to prove she can be supported without recourse to public funds, but the amount you must have in income or savings is not laid down). You need to read the re-issued visa rules TOGETHER WITH the other requirements for visa extension published on immigration police website.

Furthermore I am not alone in doubting the age restriction of 50 is applicable. Sunbelts and Immigrations translation of the visa rules are contradictory and both are confused. I believe you can obtain a visa to support your, or your Thai spouse's, child irrespective of your age but provided the child is not over 20 and is unmarried and is living with the immediate family.

I believe you can obtain a visa to obtain support FROM a Thai parent provided the Thai parent is over 50. (I believe this is where the magic number 50 comes into play).

Thridly you can obtain a visa to obtain support FROM a Thai child irrsepective of age of either party.

In all three instances the immigration officer has to be satisifed that sufficient money is available.

Does anyone seriously believe that a destitute farang will be given a visa to "support" his child simply because he is over 50 (or even under 50 if I am correct)?

I have based my assumptions on reading both translations and the immigration website.

OK Maestro, Lopburi, Sunbelt et al ...shoot me down.

Added in edit:

I note Sunbelts use of the term "live with" rather than "support" to explain the issue of not needing proof of income. Immigration website refers specifically to support.

but they will help you by donating 1000 bht to thai immigration then you wont need any visa to cambodia they will stamp you in immidiately to thailand (dont need to go to cambodia) and it takes about 20 minuits.”

Oh yeah.

This risks being refused entry on the next run. If you obtain a stamp at a Thai/Cambodia or any other land crossing without getting a stamp from the other countries immigration it shows you didn't exit the country and thereby invalidates any visa.

Be aware that the Government is tightening up on immigaration procedures and determined to stamp out corruption.

Dave,

I'm curious. Why the need to access via Hotmail if you are in Thailand. Plenty of Thai ISPs.

In fact anyone in Thailand with TOT or TT&T phoneline (that's most people) can now dial up the Internet at 3baht for 2 hours. Nothing more to pay. No login name or password to remember. Slow in evenings and weekends when all the schoolkids log in and you are cut off after 2hours which is a b*gg*r. But it's cheap and it's never crashed on me. Need to install some files on computer which can be downloaded from Totonline.net.

Dave,

I'm curious. Why the need to access via Hotmail if you are in Thailand. Plenty of Thai ISPs.

In fact anyone in Thailand with TOT or TT&T phoneline (that's most people) can now dial up the Internet at 3baht for 2 hours. Nothing more to pay. No login name or password to remember. Slow in evenings and weekends when all the schoolkids log in and you are cut off after 2hours which is a b*gg*r. But it's cheap and it's never crashed on me. Need to install some files on computer which can be downloaded from Totonline.net.

My documents are with the Thai Consulate in Birmingham at the moment. I'm just hoping they'll issue me with a non-immigrant "O" visa.

Gammy

What did you ask for????????

What forms did you submit?

I am DEFINITELY correct. BKK Airport immigration will give you 12 months if your visa is o-a category.

Obviously because of the complexity of Thai visa regulations some officials make mistakes. However if 3 months is given it should be politely challenged. The applicable regulations are in fact held on the immigation computer database.  If the mistake is not immediately spotted or corrected there is a desk in the Bangkok Immigration office exclusively for oorrecting such mistakes. No queues and no hassles and no charge.

With regard to whether or not to have your pension paid into a Thai deposit a/c. Although visa regulations do not actually specify it as a requirement it is certainly the understanding upon which o-a visa is issued if you have used a pension as proof of means of support. So take no chances. Regular ATM withdrawals are NOT acceptable as evidence of transfer of funds into the country when you come to renew your visa. Immigration will want to see a passbook and supporting letter from the Thai bank. Most UK pension funds will arrange automated payment into a Thai bank account at a modest commision (around 9-10GBP per transaction) and you will benefit from the money market rates whereas credit/debit card withdrawals are usually converted at the mid point between UK tourist rates (which are a rip-off) and the mid market rate. If you only wish to transfer a proportion of your pension each month from your UK bank you will be charged for administration and commission and you will have to pay for telephone calls (and not all UK banks will arrange transfer over the phone).

The whole purpose of permitting long stay in Thailand is to bring money into the country.

On this (usually) excellent site you will see instances of people congratulating themselves on beating the system. Treat them with scepticism. If you intend to live here play it straight and you'll have no problems.

I applaud any attempt to clean up the "farang" orientated sex industry albeit likely doomed to failure.

It actually hits the Thai tourist industry. Many westerners stay away because of the bad name Thailand has in this respect.

I find it embarrasing when returning to England to admit I am resident in Thailand. Peolpe immediately equate me with the sad ex-pats who haunt the seedier areas.

I strongly advise you obtain the retirement (o-a) visa in the UK. If you meet the criteria you will have no problems.

Although Thai immigration have discretion to convert  tourist visa to o-a long stay the probabilty is you will encounter hassles particularly if you do not have 800k in Thai bank. You can see from this site people do get lucky, but I wouldn't chance it.

Do NOT arrive without visa. They cannot convert a 30 day arrival stamp to o-a.

I have obtained o-a visa on 2 seperate occasions through Thai embassy in London without any hassle. Last time was 3 weeks ago (am now back in Thailand). Took 2 mins each time for agreement (although you have to return to pick up passport 2 days later). You must travel to Thailand within 3 months of issue. Bangkok airport immigration will give you 12 months stay from date of arrival.

If you travel to Thailand on a tourist visa immigration have discretion to convert to an o-a visa but you could very well face difficulties.

To obtain in UK you will need equivalent of 800k baht in

UK savings account. You won't need to produce a bank statement but will need letter from bank/buiding society dated as near as poss to the date you visit embassy. Alternatively (if applicable to you) a letter from your pension company confirming your monthly pension (ask them to quote the annual equivalent). Theoretically they should only take your NET (after UK tax) pension into account.

- so if the gross

To obtain a one year extension in Thailand you will need to transfer the 800k OR show thai bank passbook showing 65k transferred every month (and a confirmatory letter from bank). Thas all.

You will need a letter issued by Met police confirming you have no criminal record. You obtain this through your local county constabulary (any police station in your county of residence should give you a form or you can order one through constbulary website). Overall takes about 4 weeks to obtain but they allow themselves 8 weeks.

You will also need medical certificate. Thai embassy visa section will give you a form for a doctor to certify although they will accept a letter from a doctor confirming that you are free from specified afflictions.  This was the only problem I faced. My GP refused to assist so I had to go through a private practice -cost 260GBP including X-ray for TB.

Application form for non-immigrant visa(of whuich o-a is one caegory) can be downloaded from thai London embassy website. The additional form for o-a visa can be downloaded form thai Washington DC embassy website (LOndon use the ame form). I don't think the medical certificate can be downloaded.

To obtain a one year extension in Thailand you will need to transfer the 800k OR show thai bank passbook showing 65k transferred every month (and a confirmatory letter from bank). Thats all.

There is a lot of misleading info on the web and certainly Thai officialdom can be fickle but do things by the book and you will have no problems.

A word of warning. As you will see elsewhere the income requirements are likely to be raised substantially next year but MAYBE sooner. However anybody already in the country renewing an o-a visa should retain the old income levels although this is to be confirmed. People who arrived before the last hike now enjoy grandfather rights.