mangostays

Baco started this thread with:

Last night 1 swedish tourist and a thai died after a bar fight, with knives and bottles.

they were rushed to samui but died overthere in the hospital

The factual errors here are obvious.

HINT: Try getting some facts before you post such things.

LESSON: Never, never interfere in a fight that in no way concerns you.

It's a rule that I would have thought anyone with any sense would already know.

Mark, don't be ridiculous. Are you telling me and the rest of the readers of this forum that if for example, you saw a fourteen year old 'boy' beating the crap out of, for example, a twenty year old girl, then you wouldn't get involved on the grounds that you didn't know them? This is exactly the sort of attitude that allows little thugs to get away with murder.

Get a spine man.

well said my friend,but remember if you are prepared to break up a fight make sure you are not on your own!!!!

that is exactly the sorte of attidue that gets you murdered. if u not have a problem with that then by all means get involved but don't expect my sympathy

It's not an attitude, it's a human principle.

Obviously don't go swinging into a no win situation, but if you can help without getting maimed, then step in. Personally, I'm pretty confident that I could knock seven bells out of a fourteen year old boy, and his mates, without breaking a sweat. Even if they are armed with 'food scrapers'.

Choochart played down the recent killings, saying, "I believe security in Thailand is better than in many other countries." He also said that some of the attacks were occasioned by the behavior of the women themselves. Under a front-page photograph of a Western woman in a skimpy bikini, The Bangkok Post quoted Choochart as saying, "They tend to choose a quiet spot away from other people, take off the bikini and sunbathe. That's when the attackers strike."

Choochart is of course 100% correct, Thailand's security is better than many other countries - Burma, Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia; to name but four. This does not make Thailand 'safe' though. And to the topless sun bathers, no it's not ok, the Thais don't like it, it makes them embarassed and causes a lot of confusion amongst the men folk. TIT. (pardon the pun)

Back to the violence thing, offend, even unintentionally, or cross swords with a wanabe gangsta or yabbad up teenager and you can quite easily get your head stamped by him and the passing postman until your brain comes out of your ears.

Incidentally, just before he died, the poor indian bloke lying was face down on the beach with a bunch of 'big mafia' throwing bottles at his head from a couple of feet away. Got that from somebody who was there.

Big Mafia, big taxi driver. Same same. Cheap gangs, cheap guns, cheap gold. Cowards, the lot of them.

Can't believe to read such nonsense....and also SAD to read you agree with this nut head Choochart, speaking such awful words after a completely innocent girl was murdered. As if walking on a beach in Thailand in a normal bikini is ASKING for rape and murder...

And, you compare Burma, Iraq, Afghanistan and Somalia with Thailand ? Do these countries also attract 14 Million tourists every year ?

So, an innocent girl was 'asking' to be murdered, but you talk about "the poor Indian bloke"....

Shame on you.

LaoPo

LaoPo, you have totally missed the point of my post. Do you really think I was being genuinely serious in my comparisons? Have you never hear of satire?

Yes, I think I missed your point. Suppose I have to get used to your style of writing....and, Yes, I have heard of satire; it was a good one since I took it for real.

Rant over.

LaoPo

No worries mate. I have been known to be a bit tongue in cheek at times..........

Sad, extremely sad.

Situations like these are reported abroad. And tourists reading those stories here, talk about it. And it will cause tourism to decline. Samui has the reputation of rip-off-island in many European travel agencies, the raped and killed woman (also Samui) is still not forgotten and now Phangan and Phuket are added to the list, two more murders.

Will the police ever realize that tourism makes these places what they are? If the tourists stop coming, 95% of all business dies as well. Back to coconut harvesting.

Choochart will probably never realize this.

Prasert, the police don't give a sh** about tourists (they make more work for them), neither do most Thai people. In case you haven't noticed, Thailand generally lives in the moment, it's politics are up and down like a yoyo and we should'nt flatter ourselves as foreigners that Thailand needs us. Beleive me, it doesn't. Sure, the collapse of the tourist industry would set the economy back a 'few' years but nobody would starve, industry would take a step sideways and life would go on.

Baco started this thread with:

Last night 1 swedish tourist and a thai died after a bar fight, with knives and bottles.

they were rushed to samui but died overthere in the hospital

The factual errors here are obvious.

HINT: Try getting some facts before you post such things.

LESSON: Never, never interfere in a fight that in no way concerns you.

It's a rule that I would have thought anyone with any sense would already know.

Mark, don't be ridiculous. Are you telling me and the rest of the readers of this forum that if for example, you saw a fourteen year old 'boy' beating the crap out of, for example, a twenty year old girl, then you wouldn't get involved on the grounds that you didn't know them? This is exactly the sort of attitude that allows little thugs to get away with murder.

Get a spine man.

Choochart played down the recent killings, saying, "I believe security in Thailand is better than in many other countries." He also said that some of the attacks were occasioned by the behavior of the women themselves. Under a front-page photograph of a Western woman in a skimpy bikini, The Bangkok Post quoted Choochart as saying, "They tend to choose a quiet spot away from other people, take off the bikini and sunbathe. That's when the attackers strike."

Choochart is of course 100% correct, Thailand's security is better than many other countries - Burma, Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia; to name but four. This does not make Thailand 'safe' though. And to the topless sun bathers, no it's not ok, the Thais don't like it, it makes them embarassed and causes a lot of confusion amongst the men folk. TIT. (pardon the pun)

Back to the violence thing, offend, even unintentionally, or cross swords with a wanabe gangsta or yabbad up teenager and you can quite easily get your head stamped by him and the passing postman until your brain comes out of your ears.

Incidentally, just before he died, the poor indian bloke lying was face down on the beach with a bunch of 'big mafia' throwing bottles at his head from a couple of feet away. Got that from somebody who was there.

Big Mafia, big taxi driver. Same same. Cheap gangs, cheap guns, cheap gold. Cowards, the lot of them.

Can't believe to read such nonsense....and also SAD to read you agree with this nut head Choochart, speaking such awful words after a completely innocent girl was murdered. As if walking on a beach in Thailand in a normal bikini is ASKING for rape and murder...

And, you compare Burma, Iraq, Afghanistan and Somalia with Thailand ? Do these countries also attract 14 Million tourists every year ?

So, an innocent girl was 'asking' to be murdered, but you talk about "the poor Indian bloke"....

Shame on you.

LaoPo

Laopo,

Mangostays is pointing out the obvious about wearing bikinis or less on Thai beaches. Obviously one should feel free to wear a bikini, but one should also be aware that topless is not appreciated by Thais and is something that each individual travel guide mentions.

It's sad and very unfortunate but also reality that some Thai blokes think that the girls may be 'asking' for it by wearing skimpy bikinis or less. I'm not condoning this behavious by Thai guys, but it's something to take into consideration. IMHO rape is big problem in Thai society but hardly ever reported to the authorities.

I'm absolutely not agreeing with this Choochart character but it gives you an indication on how somebody in a very high up position sees the problem. Food for thought IMHO.

Thankyou Limbos. Of course I am not supporting rapists of any sort. But you can not behave on any Thai beach he same as you would on say, Brighton Beach in the UK. Thais are modest and are not used to seeing semi naked women in public. If they want to see this they go to a go-go bar where if they/we feel like it, a price can be negociated etc etc. Quite suprised that Laopo, being such a super senior member blah blah, didn't understand.

Choochart played down the recent killings, saying, "I believe security in Thailand is better than in many other countries." He also said that some of the attacks were occasioned by the behavior of the women themselves. Under a front-page photograph of a Western woman in a skimpy bikini, The Bangkok Post quoted Choochart as saying, "They tend to choose a quiet spot away from other people, take off the bikini and sunbathe. That's when the attackers strike."

Choochart is of course 100% correct, Thailand's security is better than many other countries - Burma, Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia; to name but four. This does not make Thailand 'safe' though. And to the topless sun bathers, no it's not ok, the Thais don't like it, it makes them embarassed and causes a lot of confusion amongst the men folk. TIT. (pardon the pun)

Back to the violence thing, offend, even unintentionally, or cross swords with a wanabe gangsta or yabbad up teenager and you can quite easily get your head stamped by him and the passing postman until your brain comes out of your ears.

Incidentally, just before he died, the poor indian bloke lying was face down on the beach with a bunch of 'big mafia' throwing bottles at his head from a couple of feet away. Got that from somebody who was there.

Big Mafia, big taxi driver. Same same. Cheap gangs, cheap guns, cheap gold. Cowards, the lot of them.

Can't believe to read such nonsense....and also SAD to read you agree with this nut head Choochart, speaking such awful words after a completely innocent girl was murdered. As if walking on a beach in Thailand in a normal bikini is ASKING for rape and murder...

And, you compare Burma, Iraq, Afghanistan and Somalia with Thailand ? Do these countries also attract 14 Million tourists every year ?

So, an innocent girl was 'asking' to be murdered, but you talk about "the poor Indian bloke"....

Shame on you.

LaoPo

LaoPo, you have totally missed the point of my post. Do you really think I was being genuinely serious in my comparisons? Have you never hear of satire?

Choochart played down the recent killings, saying, "I believe security in Thailand is better than in many other countries." He also said that some of the attacks were occasioned by the behavior of the women themselves. Under a front-page photograph of a Western woman in a skimpy bikini, The Bangkok Post quoted Choochart as saying, "They tend to choose a quiet spot away from other people, take off the bikini and sunbathe. That's when the attackers strike."

Choochart is of course 100% correct, Thailand's security is better than many other countries - Burma, Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia; to name but four. This does not make Thailand 'safe' though. And to the topless sun bathers, no it's not ok, the Thais don't like it, it makes them embarassed and causes a lot of confusion amongst the men folk. TIT. (pardon the pun)

Back to the violence thing, offend, even unintentionally, or cross swords with a wanabe gangsta or yabbad up teenager and you can quite easily get your head stamped by him and the passing postman until your brain comes out of your ears.

Incidentally, just before he died, the poor indian bloke lying was face down on the beach with a bunch of 'big mafia' throwing bottles at his head from a couple of feet away. Got that from somebody who was there.

Big Mafia, big taxi driver. Same same. Cheap gangs, cheap guns, cheap gold. Cowards, the lot of them.

From what I understand, he was trying to break up a fight and got in the middle, the other two parties did not die, is what I have been told. And, according to the news article, he was Indian, not Swedish.

Not died, but critically injured...

and the suspected killer of the Indian tourist.... is 14....

Provincial Police Region 8 Track down Full-Moon Party Killer

The commander of Provincial Policed Region 8 traveled to Pa Ngan Island to interrogate the teen-aged suspect allegedly involved in the stabbing of a foreign tourist during a fight at the famed full-moon party.

Police Lieutenant General Thanee Tawitsee, commander of Provincial Police Region 8, traveled by helicopter to Pa Ngan Island yesterday evening to interrogate a suspect, allegedly involved in the stabbing of a foreign tourist.

The suspect is a 14-year-old boy and he is arrested for taking part in a fight during a full moon party at Haad Rin.

The boy is suspected of having stabbed 24-year-old Chetan Dadhwal with a hand metal scraper. Dadhwal was an Indian national who tried to break up the fight and was then stabbed. He later died while being hospitalized at Bann Don Inter Samui Hospital.

The suspect denied all charges despite evidence found by police and witnesses who identified him as the culprit. He has been charged with causing a disturbance which resulted in the death of others and is in custody.

The 15-year-old victim who Dadhwal was trying to help was reportedly stabbed four times with the hand scraper as well. His condition is still critical and he remains under close medical observation.

- Thailand Outlook (today)

As heard on the grape vine.....

This is the second death to occur within the imediate vicinity of the Drop In Bar in less than six months. Apparantly the place is now having all it's documents checked and if all is not in order faces closure. An English girl was also raped that night by four thais (again, an association with the Drop In Bar was mentioned). The story goes that she went to the local police station with a translator from a local cafe the next day and ended up signing a statement confessing to being 'drunk and out of control'. She has now left the Island. The foreign run bunglow resort where she was staying has all the details.

As for the death of Chetan Dadhwal, absolutely terrible and a waste of a life. It will be interesting to see what happens to the 14 yr old murderer (bet you're not feeling like such a big man now are you??)

Hi, we live on Koh Phangan and are looking (rather urgently - i.e. next few days) for the closest mamogram capable hospital/clinic in the area (samui, surat etc)

Please,any help appreciated.

themangostays att gmail dot com

Last night 1 swedish tourist and a thai died after a bar fight, with knives and bottles.

they were rushed to samui but died overthere in the hospital

How come they both died? sounds unlikely, unless they were both fighting for the same team.

Full Moon Party? Who really, seriously gives a toss anymore. Sooner it's shut down the sooner we can get on with a bit of normality and flush all the baddies off the island.

Can we have a vote on the most Annoying nationality of people who visit Thailand. I know what you want to say. The most arrogant, irratating, tight fisted bunch of Joey Dankers I have ever come accross.

ps I am not a nationality

That would be the ********* then right?

SportsBar. There cannot possibly be any better gourmet pizza to be found within a 500km radius of this place. Tasty pizzas with quality ingredients, made with real pizza dough kneaded 5 hours before it hits the oven.

Well, all good things usually come to an end, and this pizza is no exception. Since the pizza-making has been taken over by the Thai cook at the SportsBar, expect uncooked pizzas with a quarter of the toppings found earlier.

For the best pizza in Koh Pha-Ngan, it's now a toss-up between the traditional Italian pizza at Chiara in Thongsala, and the deliciously spicy pizza at Milky Bay in Bantai.

jose '-)

Angels Bay in HinKong is a fabulous French restuarant with it's own clay pizza oven. I think their pizzas are absolutley fantastic and very reasonably priced at between 150 and 250 THB. Thin crust, proper cheeses and quick service.

Thats how different we all are... some like concrete, stainless, mirrored glass windows, sterile bathrooms smelling of chlorine, jaccuzzi, infinity pool, range rovers and others are quite happy with their "hedonistic hippie appearance", a beach, the sea, the sun, the stars the moon, sharing with people from all over the planet at one spot, some serious fun, with the sound of beat'n drum...those japing on about events like this maybe even have missed Woodstock... for some the "world" is only measured in inch, liters, income, expenses and what their bank account holds...

why there is carnival, events like the love parade, mardi gras, music festivals, why? Because.... "hedonistic hippie appearance" or people in general, don't wanna have fun?

Nothing wrong with having fun, just try and take a shower at least twice a day and if you've got a sleeping bag, get it checked for bed bugs...

what about having your holiday ruined by speeding cement trucks, or renting a 5000B bungalow and hear the construction going on next door.. or looking at hills being litterally 'chopped off'..

semms to be that you believe 'construction and development' is the best thing that can happen to KPG in the near future..

if so, poor KPG..

Actually, quarrying of any sort is illegal in Koh Phangan, as is deforestation (cutting down any tree requires the permission of the local Orbador) so you can't blame the foreign developers for that (at least not directly anyway). Again, most reputable builders get their materials from reputable sources. And yes, as long as the boundaries of the national park are respected (and I don't mean Anthong Marine Park, I mean the 40% land mass of the island put aside as reserve) then development is a good thing for Koh Phangan. Progress is progress, and better the real estate is put out to a fair tender and an open market that will build mostly in theme with the landscape, then it is land banked en mass by those in a position to currently do so.

Quite rightly, this though has nothing to do with the future of the full moon party, which I would take an educated guess at having around five or sixe years left in it at most before it is permamently shut down or moved to a more secure/controlable/taxable location. Non of the big wigs really want it and it's seen as a bit of an embarressment to Thailand in general.

It has had a good running, that can't be denied...

True, the hippies (sorry, Travellers) were here first and put the place in the lonely planet. Also, I can't deny when I was a few years younger it was more of my thing. But like a lot of good things, once the masses start rolling up the whole thing loses it's appeal.

Often it's not just about the big money with foreign investors. Sometimes they are looking for something different that they can actually be a part of too. I did my best not to mention Samui in my reply btw...

Half moon partys????? What that all about? Do you have quarter moon partys? No moon partys? When I was lad we danced to the sound of birds singing in the trees and drank dandilion and burdock till we were quite giddy.

we have a party for every day of the moon and some invented ones, what the f is "shiva moon"?

i also agree with the DJs been shot concept, at least the ones that believe that DJing is like been a real musician.

i assume that you drank "dandilion and burdock till we were quite giddy" because it was fermented, right?

steve

The parties are a false economy for the Island and do little more than attract budget backpackers who cram themselves (mainly) into Haad Rin for maybe three or four days max, once a month, and occasionally get hammered on Sang Song buckets for 120 Bht a throw (which they share between six of them). I don't wish to mention any specific nationality, but a large proportion of the temporary party crowd who reside in Haad Rin for the event tend to spend as little money as is humanely possible, slope around bare footed in Thong Sala looking for cheap food and generally anoy the crap out of the local Thai and resident expat population. And yes, they generally contribute bugger all to the island as a whole. And yes, some of them do smell of dog shit.

All the big money is on Samui and I would guess a very large percentage of high spending tourists simply don't bother with Phangan for fear of having their holidays (or future investment) ruined by hedonistic hippies and constantly deafening techno/trance music. Anybody who actually lives on or has bothered vistiting Koh Phangan knows that this is simply not the case, and most usually agree the island is far more tranquil, better value and unbeleiviably more beautiful than other similar island destinations. on a positive note, I guess the low tourist numbers keep the theme of the island pretty trad backpacker and the serious development down enormously compared to other higher profile places.

For those who have invested money on Koh Phangan, we all know that as soon as the parties stop, the big hotels move over, the real estate market gets a serious kick start and the local land owners (of which the vast majority are local Thais incidientally) get the opportunity to make some serious money. Hopefully when this happens, Phangan will be better able to cope with the sudden changes than other rapidly developed tourist destinations have suffered negative impact from similar fast track investment.

The downside to the parties finishing is that a certain social niche (mainly the low end resorts, local touts, taxi drivers etc) will take an unprecidented financial hit, but as I said earlier, the economy of the island will as a whole benefit. And besides, all of the aformentioned can easily realign their 'business interests' to make the most of the up and comming influx of non smelly, short haired folk.

Incidentally, the whole party scene is pretty well set up, the booze is cheap and generally, if you behave yourself and you're into loud 90's techno then you'll probably enjoy yourself. Personally I find attending the full moon party a bit like going to the fair ground, except that there arn't any rides or easy ways to escape when you get bored or lose all your money.

Just out of curiousity - why is the Thai Gouvernment so "Anti Long Stay Tourist" ...... I know alot of guys that work in the UK / Europe for 6 months during srping / summer, save up alot of cash, then go to Thailand for the autumn / winter (6 months) and spend all that cash...... I'm talking like 10 grand...... as in half a million Baht..... surely that is a good thing for the country? I can understand why they would want to stop foriegners buying up land & houses, pushing up prices etc., but what is wrong with people hanging around spending what is locally a hel_l of alot of money..... this money is filtering back up the entire country one way or another..... the typical long stay tourist is not exaclt a burden on the state?

Just seems pointless to me........... could some one fill me in?

Long stay tourists often work illegally, especially in touristy areas such as samui, phangan etc. The government quite rightly, wishes to cut down on the number of illegal workers, avoidance of tax contributions etc.

I have been given WOW for chirstmas. The software came from England, and my billng account is also in England. Can I use WOW Europe in Thailand?

Thanks in advance for listening...

I live in Hua Hin and the house I live in has flooded. The water was just entering yesterday as I left, now at least a foot higher. The main problem why this particular street flooded was because the swamp area next to it has started to be land filled. No draining of water or clearing of the vegation, the contractors just dumped earth into the swamp raising a meter higher than surrounding land. Obviously the water had to go somewhere and the drains were full before the rain came. If they'd built drainage channels out to the main klong it wouldn't have happened. I was only staying there for a month before moving back to bangers but I really pity the people who own property on that street. No planning means this kind of thing will happen al the time. It seems the only defense against flooding is build your land higher than your neighbours and let them suffer.

Sure, I live on Koh Phangan, the locals fill in swamps at any given opportunity, and then .... build a ground level entry house on the 'raised' ground and wonder why their foundations wash away when the rains start.

I build a house here recently, and I made sure it was at least 2 meters off the ground on concrete stilts.

Since I had my contacts with Thailand I see often: floods here, floods there.

We in the Netherlands started to build dikes for that, from about 11th century. Not against rivers , but also as protection against the sea.

When I see around in Thailand, I donot see anything of these.

Why ?

Without proper water defense, you will have wet feet always. Ask New Orleans.

Take a gander at a map. For starters, the Netherlands is 41,526 SQ KM vs. Thailand's 514,000 SQ KM (more than 12 x smaller than Thailand]. Thailand has much, much more coastline than the Netherlands and many more rivers. Sure more could be done here, but there is no way they are going to entirely protect against flooding everywhere here as the job would be 1000s of times greater than that required in your country. Thailand also has elevated areas (hills, mountains) that are factors in flooding too, features that are sorely lacking in your vertically-challenged country. How about building some mountains now that you have conquered the sea?

You're on a retirement visa right?