Lithobid

In my experience through all the levels there, they speak English to help you along. Even at the lowest level, they primarily speak Thai only to immerse you, but we all need some help from time to time, and they will translate for individuals when needed so that the class stays together.

Hi all, it's been several years since I regularly updated this forum, as I've been into other adventures in life. I hope to return to regularly studying Thai, and look forward to getting some of my progress posted here for others to learn from as well. I see many folks have posted corrections and additions, I can't thank you enough! Without your help, this thread wouldn't be half of what it is.

Cheers!

Lithobid

I love this country, I really do, you can smell the anxiety of the Thai's over this new TV program. They're thinking, "Oh no! that man so bad, he has a gun!, we should make new law!"

Only in this country would new sanctions come about from a foreign produced TV series, instead of an INGRAINED sense of ETHICAL MORALITY.

Then again, only in this country would they continue to be so transparent with their political motivations, and still stick to their guns, that they HONESTLY feel that way.

LOS, the circus never leaves town.

18-30yr olds try to look 15 in Asia, 15 year old westerners want to look 30.

My goodness this topic brought the sharks out!

Jingthing- Was at Dukes in Chiang Mai last week, ordered a pizza with my friend. The pizza came really quick (about 5 mins) when it arrived, it was awful. Soggy crust and half melted cheese. My friend who knows one of the managment, calls her over, and explains, this is not enjoyable. Would you believe it, she said "Oh, you ordered it wrong. I tell my customers, don't order this way, you have to order it like that". Imagine ordering toppings on a pizza the wrong way, man, this world get's harder and harder......lol.....snicker.

Cheers

Lithobid

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"ตีมือเมื่อสื่อไม่ถูกต้อง ก็ใช้วิธีตีมือตีแขน " - Meaning??

Used in the context of explaining something Full Sentence - "การสื่อสารที่ไม่เหมาะสม เช่นตีมือเมื่อสื่อไม่ถูต้องก็ใช้วิธีตีมือตีแขน"

Cheers

Lithobid

So I'm in the barbers chair and the กระเทย is cutting away, and I'm being forced to listen to that horrible music called American Country Music, anyway, so to start our chit-chat off, I ask

1. คุณชอบลุกทุ่งฟรั่งไหม - and all I got was a confused look, should I have used เพลงของคนชนบท? What should I use?

In this situation, it's better start asking with "คุณชอบเพลงคันทรี่ไหม". Then, if you got a confused look from her, you can clarify what "เพลงคันทรี่" is.

For example;

You : คุณชอบเพลงคันทรี่ไหม

Her : อะไรนะ เพลงคันทรี่อะไร ไม่รู้จัก

You : ก็เพลงฝรั่งแนวนี้ไง เขาเรียกว่า เพลงคันทรี่ สำหรับฝรั่ง เพลงประเภทนี้ก็คล้าย ๆ กับเพลงลูกทุ่งของไทยนั่นแหละ

Her : อ้อเหรอ อืม ชอบสิ (She would feel good by now because she got a new knowledge that this style of song is called "country". She might be able to use it with her friends later. )

2. After finishing with the hair cut I'm off to Tesco's for some shopping, and come across a family walking and one of their children is sitting in the shopping cart. I of course can't resist and come out with

ขอโทษครับดัวนี้(pointing to child in cart)คุณซื้อที่ไหน - all four of the family, including grandma, stopped and had dead-serious looks on their faces. Guess that humor didn't go cross-culture. I backed away humbly.

It doesn't mean Thai people never joke with others this way. But you just used the wrong word. In Thai, we would say "ไม่มีศิลปะในการพูด".

Both "ขอโทษครับตัวนี้คุณซื้อที่ไหน" and "เด็กคนนี้ซื้อมาจากไหนครับ" sound rude to me. If I were one in that family, you would get a dead-serious look from me too.

Thai people will start this joke with a smile to the kid and talk to the family something like "น่ารักจัง หาซื้อได้ที่ไหนครับ (ผมอยากได้บ้าง-this sentence is an option)", no need to use any classifier. By this, you would get friendly looks from the family instead.

Yoot,

I appreciate the input. I took your approach on giving a complement first,

"โอ๋เด็กๆนี้น่ารักจังเลย ผมอยากได้บ้าง คูณหาซ้อได้ที่ไหนครับ?"

This time the child in the cart about 5-6 squeeled and giggled and the rest of the family followed suit. I never thought about entering the conversation with a compliment for the child, as giving a reason for why I would like to have one of my own like that. Definetly not nessecary in English, but has seemed to make all the difference in Thai.

Cheers

Lithobid

This one's a bit trickier. Here's my take but I could be wrong:

1. The TV needs to be fixed: You say two different things but I think you're right on the 2nd one: present simple (needs) with passive (to be done). (Not past simple as you say here

I think 1. is past simple, because of ed ending of verb,

)

2. The TV needs fixing: present simple + present participle.

As for what you put on the board:

1. As mentioned before.

2. Yes - Past simple + passive

3. Yes- Future + passive- but you are complicating it slightly by using 'going to + infinitive, rather than 'will'. Unless you were specifically trying to teach or draw attention to that grammar point you might be safer with 'The tv will need to be fixed'.

4. This may be a regional thing but in England you might hear some say 'that TV is needing fixing"- there's your present continuous with passive. It is grammatically correct I believe. (You would also hear 'That TV is needing fixed' but lets not over-complicate).

5. How about 'The TV needed to be fixed by him'? ('He has fixed the TV' is of course... present perfect- Where's your homework from last lesson, BOY)!

I'm not quite sure I understand your final point but if you are saying 'the tense is held in the verb 'to need' then I agree. The use of 'needed to be fixed' and 'needed fixing' are just different types of passive.

I so well remember the days when I was still teaching English Language: Suddenly you're in the wrong part of grammar town. You've strayed into a blind alley. The mood of the locals is getting ugly and...you've forgotten/ never knew this particularly nasty neighbourhood anyway. Just tell your students that 99.9 percent of native speakers haven't a clue either. Having said that I always quite liked playing around with grammar and even my (relative to yours) younger 15-16 year olds seemed to have the logical capacity to make sense of and apply the rules. They even use to enjoy it- less chance of losing face I guess.

Well all of this is off my head, so if anyone has references to back up/ rubbish what I say please do.

Anyway good luck

Thanks again for you're superb advice. My student was really convinced that because "ed" and "ing" were being used that it was P.S. and P.C. tenses, and I was not really sure! I love it when my students challenge me, hel_l in Thailand most of the time it's just a group of 25 smiling nodding heads whether they understand it or not! It's great to have a 22 year old college student adamant on getting things right. I encourage it!

In fact for those of you who are reading this, I've found that 10/10 times I don't know something the best thing to do is say "Wow Jimmy good question! I don't know either, let's figure it out." Immediately you make yourself a partner with the student and become a team to figure out the problem instead of shakily insisting your correct on something you're not quite sure of.

Thanks again slip! You've helped iron out another for me.

Cheers

Lithobid

To Phat the students are 18-28

Ok another one! I love it when students challenge!

Today we were practicing the use of need.

1. Need + passive infinitive : The TV needs to be fixed. The screen needs to be adjusted.

And

2. Need + Verb + ing. : The TV needs fixing. The screen needs adjusting.

Student asks: "What tense are we in? I think 1. is past simple, because of ed ending of verb, and 2. is present continious because of ing."

I said, "I've got no idea, I'm confused! But if I were to take a guess.."

And I wrote on the board.

1. The Tv needs to be fixed. - Present simple

1. The Tv needed to be fixed. - Past Simple

2. The Tv is going to need to be fixed - Future simple

Present continious couldn't be used, because it is passive,

1. He/I/You are fixing the TV. - present continous. "But bot passive!"

2. He has fixed the TV. - past simple "But not passive!"

I argued that it was the passive voice that demanded the conjugation of the verbs in "ed" and "ing" therefore not changing the tense.

If you modify the verb "need", then and only then do you change the "tense" .

They I told my student, I'd ask you guys, cause you're so damned smart!

Thanks for any help

Cheers

Lithobid

My Thai son (28 years old) doesn't drive (hangover from a bad accident when he was a little boy) often takes his wife and small daughter on trips where the destination is only serviced by buses.

He has another strategy, they start the journey and if my son or his wife feels the driver is dangerous or not paying attention, then they get off at the next stop or politely ask for the bus to stop at the next town, and get off.

He's fortunate of course that he has enough funds to stay the night in a local hotel, pay for some alternate transport etc.

Probably a good strategy, unless they get on the next bus and the driver is bad, so stop at the next town, driver is even worse, so stop at the next town... kills a lot of time, but I suppose it's better than getting killed on one of those behemoths. Too many times I've gone (the other way) past a bus overtaking another bus, three abreast on a 2-way road. I thinks that's the scariest part of driving here, cuz if they're doing 100 and I'm doing 100, it's like hitting a wall at 200 kph. Did you see on tv all the bus accidents in BKK when there was all that rain? It appears the drivers don't know how to drive in the wet, either....sigh...killed a bunch of people that day.

Have to agree with OP here. That's my strategy, although when I lived in Phuket, the drivers were insane, especially the Visa Run company's. But all 16 busses I've taken from CM to BKK have been nice peacefull (train paced) slow going, with no crazieness at all. Though it is truly hit or miss.

Lithobid

i have a question... why would anyone swab a backpack? isn't it enough to open it up and empty the contents and search for illegal drugs? what would be the purpose behind swabbing? you either have drugs on you or you don't...

I thought the purpose of swabbing was to see if opening the bag was nessecary or not.. ไม่รู้

Lithobid

I think Meadish is right on here, I hear it the same in CM, also, context, context, context, this is such a conceptual language, it's unbelieveable.

Personally I would never use มัน to refer to another person, or the C, D, E character in a story, but that's only because I'm such a novice speaker.

A few classes ago, I'm with my teacher one on one, and we're talking about house hold chores, and I'm telling her what I would do ect... ช่วยดัวเอง came out in the sentence about fixing something, and my hand imediately went to my mouth as I gasped. She laughed and rolled her eyes and said, it's the context, that's not always going to mean masturbate. Lol, gotta love this crazy lingo.

Peace

Lithoid

So I'm in the barbers chair and the กระเทย is cutting away, and I'm being forced to listen to that horrible music called American Country Music, anyway, so to start our chit-chat off, I ask

1. คุณชอบลุกทุ่งฟรั่งไหม - and all I got was a confused look, should I have used เพลงของคนชนบท? What should I use?

2. After finishing with the hair cut I'm off to Tesco's for some shopping, and come across a family walking and one of their children is sitting in the shopping cart. I of course can't resist and come out with

ขอโทษครับดัวนี้(pointing to child in cart)คุณซื้อที่ไหน - all four of the family, including grandma, stopped and had dead-serious looks on their faces. Guess that humor didn't go cross-culture. I backed away humbly.

Cheers

Lithobid!

คุณชอบลูกทุ่งฝรั่งไหม? i think maybe he doesn't know what is Luk Tung Farang style. Maybe you can say "คุณชอบเพลงแนวนี้ภาษาอังกฤษไหม"

For the second I think u is trying to play with the kid, ตัวนี้ is for things and animals. we don't use it for human.

You can use "เด็กคนนี้"( Dek Khon nee) - this child. it's better.

You can ask like "เด็กคนนี้ซื้อมาจากไหนครับ"

I thought about using เด็กคนนี้ but aanon hit it on the head, I used ดัว becuase I wanted to refer to the child as being something purchased frequently in everyday life, though now thinking back I can see how it could be percieved as negative or insulting. Also, how many times have we told a joke in our own languages, and not been laughed at or with, and been taken the wrong way, I think it's a bit of just plain human nature as well.

Cheers

Lithobid

Do people realize that if you eat something with poppy seeds in it and are tested for heroin, the test will come up positive!

Wasn't that on an episode of mythbusters? scary stuff

yes.

Definitive proof, um.... well

Cheers!

Lithobid

With regards to your first question, although ลูกทุ่ง is often translated to country in English I don't feel that any Thai person would draw any similarities between the two. It also doesn't mean that they can identify different western musical genres when they hear them. A word I have heard Thais use in reference to musical genres is แนว e.g. คุณชอบเพลงแนวไหน "What type of music do you like?" Therefore, I guess you could say คุณชอบเพลงแนวนี้ไหม or just แบบนี้ in a more general sense. Don't forget though that to their ears it could just be taken to mean western music.

With regards to the second question I'd imagine that you're right and the humour just didn't translate. Of course if a foreigner starts speaking to them out of the blue it's also possible that they weren't really ready to listen to you and certainly weren't expecting such words to come out of your mouth. Maybe they were just confused.

On the first response, I think you're right there, even in Thailand, with well educated Thai's they find it hard to discern the "western-rock-swing-classical; links". Though you're right on with "แนว" and "แบบนี้" because those are the three words I used to bring understanding to the conversation and we moved on.

The second, I agree the humor didn't apply well, though they knew I spoke Thai as they listened to my two minute conversation with a man in the TV department. They were right next to me and I know they understood that part of my thai. As an exclusion, when I made the joke, I was quite carefull that none other than that family could hear me. (although, the difference between listening and being spoken to directly by a ฟรั่ง can mean a world of difference in understanding as I've learned, or is it learnt....S!@# cain't spell my own no more.)

Cheers on your reply!

Lithobid

Hook, Line, and Sinker! - and I was only unhappy because I've just spent the last 15 months of my life learning to spell the @#$@#$ language properly!

Well done, though no suprise really, I am Polish.

Cheers

Lithobid!

So I'm in the barbers chair and the กระเทย is cutting away, and I'm being forced to listen to that horrible music called American Country Music, anyway, so to start our chit-chat off, I ask

1. คุณชอบลุกทุ่งฟรั่งไหม - and all I got was a confused look, should I have used เพลงของคนชนบท? What should I use?

2. After finishing with the hair cut I'm off to Tesco's for some shopping, and come across a family walking and one of their children is sitting in the shopping cart. I of course can't resist and come out with

ขอโทษครับดัวนี้(pointing to child in cart)คุณซื้อที่ไหน - all four of the family, including grandma, stopped and had dead-serious looks on their faces. Guess that humor didn't go cross-culture. I backed away humbly.

Cheers

Lithobid!

Off topic, but I find it interesting sociologically how much more Farrang ignore other Farrang in day-day life around here.

Thanks fo the reply, Lithobid. I was worried as their website shows they do not have two adjacent courses starting at the same time and the requirement that the minimum number of students be met before they start.

That's their usual protocol, but now I think they're desperate for students, so should be no problem to jump right in, though you may have to wait until the end of the month to start at the "begining" of a level.

Cheers

Lithobid

Thanks fo the reply, Lithobid. I was worried as their website shows they do not have two adjacent courses starting at the same time and the requirement that the minimum number of students be met before they start.

Lol - Interesting thread, I got stopped for the first time (after 4 years in Thailand) about 4 months ago for making an illegal right turn. Chatted the cop up with my thai, and offered a bribe and he refused! - Lol I couldn't believe it, he took my license and then said follow me to the traffic police station and I had to pay the 400BHT fine.

So there you go there are still some honest BIB around!

Cheers

Lithobid

Hi Lithobid, is there a set of minimum criteria to meet (e.g. degree) before I can take this course? Btw, I have some basic knowledge on Thai. If the ajahns level test me and find me suitable for another level, do I have to wait a month or two for the next class to start? Thanks.

Lol are you kidding! TIT They'll test you and take your money whenever you're ready...lol

Cheers

Lithobid

Eh?

He didn't come today- past simple

He hadn't come today- would be past perfect but how can you say it?- surely it would be correct to say 'He hasn't come today' as today hasn't finished yet- present perfect which is your final example.

Alternatively if you said 'he hadn't come yesterday/this morning' (a time that has already passed) then that is the past perfect.

[EDIT to say: For those tricky grammar problems that we native speakers just don't seem to able to get right I can recommend 'English Grammar in Use' by Raymond Murphy. Cambrdge Uni Press].

For an example I was thinking "When I got to class, I was suprised that John hadn't come today."

For story telling, And good plug! Raymond Murphy, I think I've got every one of his books.

Cheers

Lithobid!

"He didn't come today." - LOL Didn't = Did not, did = simple past of "Do" - my god sometimes when I get into these tenses I get so lost on the simple one's! LOL what an idiot!

Cheers!

So there I am teaching the Past Perfect v.s. Past Simple, and everyone's soaking it up slowly.

They're getting the idea of how PP is used to talk about background information when telling a story, or sharing a conincidence (sp?) .

Then a simple sentence popped into my head and I couldn't for the life of me think of how to put it into the past tense.

"He didn't come today" - Present Simple

"He hadn't come today" - Past Perfect - Right?

"He has come today" - Past Simple? Right?

Any help is appreciated. I always like to make sure I'm barking the correct information to my SS.

Lithobid

Thanks for that Lithobid.

Hmm. Yeah, Payap is sounding more interesting to me now.

Do you know much about it in comparison to some of the other courses on offer? Say Corner Stone?

How would you rank their curriculum?

Perhaps I should start a new thread to ask this..

Thanks a lot

Morien

Well, I don't know other schools, but to rank Payap I would have to say that it's wonderful in giving you extra help. If you were lost during a class, they always go the extra mile to help you understand (IF YOU ASK THEM!!!!@!) I only say that because I've seen student after student walk out of a class disappointed, but do they even approach the teacher (NO!). Payap was so gracious to me that after studying Thai for 7 months with them they didn't have a regular curriculum course for me because I was at a higher level and the head of the Thai Language department, taught me for free for two months! They are great people at Payap, the key is, getting into the right level course, and if it’s lower than your level, they will hammer you with writing and reading. If it’s higher, you can be more like a mouse and just enjoy.

For all others that read this who have never taken a language course. In every class, you will always have multiple level’s of students; some good at reading, some at writing, and some at speaking. I strongly recommend surveying Payap to see if it is the right course/style/environment for you.

When it all comes down to me, I always find that it’s “how much time can I put into it” that is the main factor. At Payap, you can be a 3-4 hour a day (self-study ) commitment, or just a 3 hour class, that was fun commitment. It’s up to you.

Cheers

Lithobid!