Chaichara

The keychain analogy was a good one. As technology marches on you will soon be able to contain all of 40 DVDs in a chip the size of the embedded one in the new British passports...

One person's experience - out of the hundreds of thousands that leave and enter, re-enter Thailand each day - and then posted on a web forum is always enough to scare the pants of anybody. If you were to read the Lonley Planet's tips about travelling in Thailand, all similarly submitted by unpaid volunteerr travel writers who just want to see their name in the list of 5,000 contributors in the back page, you wouldn't want to set foot anywhere near the Kingdom. What one reads in tourist guides and on forums: caveat.

I don't always wait for my 90 day entry to expire before doing a border run to Laos. I often go just for the day. Yesterday on returning to Nong Khai from Vientiane, everyone who was returning for another 30-day 'stamp' had their passport checked for the number of days previously spent in Thailand.

It does also happen occasionally that between non imm visas, I do have to get by on one or two 30-day tourist stamps before I leave the country to get a new visa. Nobody was asked if they had a return flight. But if they were and I was on a 30-day stamp I would probably point to my car in the car park and say 'That's my ticket out!'

Not sure how they would do it in Thailand but I've gotten a 1-yr visa elsewhere with a passort which was set to expire in 1-2 months. Inside my soon-to-expire passport they put in a visa stamp good up until the expiry date and I was told to bring my new passport in when I got it and they would give me a visa for the remainder of the time then.

I am now on the third passport which I have had issued from the Brit Emb in BKK.

Each time, the current Non Im B multiple entry is transferred to the new passport which is done usualyy the next time I need to do a 90 day border run.

I collected the last new passport on the morning of 8 March and drove immediately the 800 km to Nong Khai Frendship Bridge border crossing. (I live in Udon).

In Nong Khai the current visa was transfered to my new passport in 5 minutes at no cost. I exited on the new passport, returned 45 minutes later to receive a new 90 day stamp in my new passport.

Good news for Mac users.

There is a 75 % discount for all Apple-Macintosh users of new models puchased in Thailand since 31 March 2006. Owners must present the current guarantee certificate, bill of sale, and a certificate from an authorized Mac Center that the machine is virus free. NOTE: This does not apply to the three year extended warranty on machines purchased before 31 March 2006.

Sompoj Duangkamjan, Deputy Under Secretary for Civil Conformity stated in a telephone interview at 06:30 this morning, stated that the reasons for the discount are because Mac users are more environmentally friendly. When asked rto explain 'environmentally friendly' he added 'Because Mac are less open to viruses and pishing and Mac users are more mature members of the community.'

A few facts (no bashin')

Text and Talk is the oldest local provider of TESOL courses in the country.

Their website is terrible - fishy - and looks more like the billboard outside a used car lot.

Their course is comparable in content, duration and quality to a Cambridge CELTA.

Their offices in Lad Phrao could use a new coat of paint.

Their graduates ALL speak very highly of the course, particularly of the localised content and orienteering.

Their graduates readly find employment in the better schools in the country and get well paid corporate jobs.

Their courses are competitively priced.

And this poster has really got nothing to do with T&T at all jing jing.

In the last four of five years a plethora of TESOL courses has appeared in Thailand ranging from the hippy beach party type to the straight university course. They ALL provide a similar syllabus and with the exception of one, they all fall within the same price range.

Here are some of the others, they all have web sites, you can look them up:

• ECC (provider of the cambridge University CELTA course)
  
• AUA
  
• SEE
  
• TEFLPlus
  
• ELITE (provider of the cambridge University CELTA course)
  
• TEFL INternational
  
• Chichester College
  
• TEFL World
  
• TEFL Krabi
  
• International House (provider of the cambridge University CELTA course)
  
• Stamford College
  
• Chiang Mai University (excessively priced)
  
• EDBA (FREE but for employees only)
  

100s of courses are now being offered on-line. Many of them are worthless, offering 40 and 60 hour certificates for the same cost as the 'real' 120 hour courses listed above and none provide teaching experience. The better schools in Thailand now insist upon 120 hour face-to-face courses of the kind listed above.

Here are a couple of links to recent articles:

diploma mills and and why they are best avoided: HERE

Find out if your TESOL certification is acceptable: HERE - looks as if T&T has some fans here too

Geoniose,

1. what is a nice/affordable size

4 x 10 metres would be fine for a family pool. Bigger if you can budget for it.

2. any idea of prices of the swimming pool and installation ?

Pool companies mostly have a bad reputation for working on excessive profit mardings particularly where farangs are concerned.

This poster was quoted 880,000 baht for a 4 x 10 concrete in-ground pool in Nong Bua Lamphu which is now being DIY built for 256,000 baht without any compromise on quality or technology.

3. what is better, prefab or build yourself?

Definitely join a self help group, and/or pay a REASONABLY priced, reliable consultant to draw up your plans with you, recommend together with you the equipment and finish you would like, and maybe organise and supervise the construction.

Try posting your enquiry HERE.

and THIS Udon Thani swimming pool DIY user group.

They seem to be quite knowledgeable on pools and they are very quick to reply to calls for help. One of them is sure to meet up with you over a beer and take you to see some DIY projects under construction in the Udon area.

That is quite a large domestic pool if indeed is for your private use. I would assume you have it in a hotel where there would also be an increased bathing load.

The owner of a pool this size would normally run to the slightly extra budget of fully automating the waterchemistry as much as possible which would appear to be what you have done. The question is whether the system (ozonator) is efficient enough for a pool of this size.

The overall quality of the water also depends on the efficiency of the filter(s) and the filter media used. Sand is no longer the choice material for professional systems. Other mineral products have up to 3,000 times the filtration peformance of silica sand. The level of filtration of the water (suspended solids) also contributes to determining the amount of required sterilisation.

The standard solution would be mechanical addition of liquid additives through timed peristaltic pumps. These chemicals would usually be chlorine, cyanuric acid stabiliser, algicide and either ph plus, or ph minus according to the acidity/alkalinity of the water supply.

The more modern solution and one that was installed recently in 1.2 million litre lido near Khon Kaen, is to use only salt-water chlorinators. The project in KK used six Zodiac heavy duty models.

There are many brands of sw chlorinators on the market now and all available in Thailand. A 25 gph unit costing about 26,000 baht would take the stress out of the daily maintenance of a 50,000 litre pool, (this is what I have done) and probably (according to the manufacturer's recommendations) two 35 gph units would be adequate for a 150,000 litre pool.

In view of the size of your pool, in order to be absolutely sure and to avoid any costly mistakes, you would probably be best advised to seek and pay for the advice of a second professional pool construction firm, or a water treatment company. The systems for maintaining the quality of swimming pool water are not unique to swimming pools. The same priciples and equipment is used across a broad spectrum of industrial water treatment, particularly in the food industry.

Do also surf the internet for more information using key words such as water treatment, swimming pool water, salt water chlorinator, ozonator, etc.

Chaichara

Gunnite or Shotcrete are rarely used in pool construction in Thailand. Most in ground pools are built using both block, and vibrated CPAC. According to the client's budget, numerous finishes are available from standard tiles to glass fibre to horrendously expensive Bedecrete.

Skimmers have a logical propensity to recycle mainly the surface and near-surface water. Main drains are a necessity as much as they ever were in designs made by professionals. The deeper water always being cooler than the surface water, may not rise sufficiently to be captured by the skimmers or a balance tank trough alone.

However, many countries now require by law, a minimum of two interconnected maindrains at least one metre apart, with scientifically designed grids to avoid vortex building.

Some countries also require the addition of a suction surge cut-off for extra safety.

Far more efficient than skimmers is the balance tank system with an all round collection gutter (which still only takes the surface water, but is of course not concerned by any prevailing winds directions). Water is then pumped from the tank. Water is only drawn from the maindrains during an intensive friltration to ensure that the deep water is also recycled. This is done when no bathers are in the pool.

Although properly matched pump/filter combinations for the pool size are designed to pass the equivalent of the pool volume within (an optimal) total of 6 hours per 24 hours, it can take MANY cycles before ALL the water has in fact passed through the filter.

Some years ago, a group at the Technical University of Berlin did some postgrad research on water flow in swimming pool systems using coloured water. Several German federal states (Länder) based their new Construction and Use regulations on it. I used to have a copy of the reseach paper but I think I left it behind in Berlin in 1988.

It is now construction LAW in many countries that spas/swimming pools have a minimum of two, interconnected maindrains or suction points at least one metre apart. Some laws also require the additional saftey of a suction surge cut-off to stop the pump(s).

The grids over the drains must be scientifically designed not to cause a vortex above them and they have slots around a raised lip round the bottom edge.

So true! And those things can be fished out on the owners return, and the dust removed with the vacuum head.

Since I fitted my sw chlorinator I have never had such an easy time and saved so much money

Still need the cyanuric acid though.

One of the disasters often facing pool owners are the Thai workmen who always say "Yes, I can do that;" I have just had 40,000 bahts worth of new polished granite floor slabs ruined by my tiler. Oh yes, the bathrooms were fine. I just wish I had followed the advice of the shop who told me "This needs to be laid by a specialist."

Wrought iron gates and swimming pools do not habve much in common - be absolutely sure to visit a pool your man has built and has been in service for at least five years and you are able to talk to the owners. This business of sinking piles for instance, they all do it, but they don't know WHY they do it. They saw it done somewhere once and now they believe it has to be done all the time.

Ask him some questions about pump/filter matching and capacities, and filtration cycles and test him on the differences between skimmer systems and balance tank systems. If he knows all the answers to you trick questions on water chemistry, and knows what a salt water chlorinator is, then maybe he IS your man.

Be sure to get an itemised quotation and follow up the quotes to see how much profit he is adding. Sometimes they whack a huge 100% onto the pumps, filters, maindrains, lights, skimmers and bull's eyes. Other times they just supply double the capacity required to boost their profit. For a 5 x 10 pool, those tricks could cost you up to 60,000 baht more than if you had read the BoQ and fetched the stuff from a pool shop yourself. A lot of money for a retiree like this poster.

Finally, always get a second opinion from a source you can trust.

Remember that in Thailand 1 pool project in 19 ends in total disaster and leaves its owners in tears and short of anything up to one million baht.

BTW: 2 high by SIX metres wide is one heck of a wide gate! That's about the width of a main road. But you can't argue with 18,000 baht if it was all stainless steel with lots of curly bits and includes the 15 x 30 footings for the runners, and the concrete posts either end.

Whether you built your pool yourself or had it built for you, if it was constructed to professional specifications which take into account the ground it is built in, there will be no problems emptying it.

It will be eqipeed with hydrostatic valves to stop it popping out of the ground under ground water pressure and the walls should be strong enough not to cave in (it should be just loose backfill beheind them).

Nevertheless, it should not be necessary to drain the pool unless some urgent repairs have to be done. Whatever state the water gets into, with the correct filtering/pumping combination and use of chemicals it can be restored, even if you have to use a floculent.

More concrete (pun) information about pools and their construction in Thailand can be got HERE

Hi Khunandy,

Totally excessive. He obviously just wants your money. An in-ground pool like you have envisaged can be built for around 300,000 baht inclusive of all the latest state-of-the-art pumping, filtering and water treatment. Piles are absolutely unecessary if you have firm groound below your infill and the pool is a relatively small one (about 5 x 11) A builder will usually quote around 650 - 900,000 for the same pool. The Western builders are ripping you off and the Thai builders just don't know any better.

if you want some free, but professional sound advice how you can do it yourself in Isaan, or at least take overall charge of having it done, and save all that money, take a look at THIS article.

Here is the "Leisure Vac" Much better than the more expensive brands.

Works with inground and aboveground pools. PM me for more details.

Where? try these - took just 30 seconds to look up in Google :

(the full article is HERE)

http://www.snapa.co.th/home.htm (Builder, supplier, importer. Most other swimming pool firms purchase from them. Large showroom and factory in Sukumwit somewhere near Eckamai. Vast stocks of materials too. Not cheap, but regular and highly recommended, will give big discounts on very large quantities, i.e. if you are a professional pool constructor or building a really enormous commercial pool).

http://www.jdpools.co.th (builder)

http://www.poolspa.co.th (builder, and manufacturer of a wide range of ABS and PVC fittings)

http://www.swimmingpoolcenter.yellowpages.co.th (Funny Family Commercial pools, builder)

http://www.srawainum.co (builder, dodgy quotations for farangs at 3 x the list price ! and a 'take-it-or-leave-it' attitude)

http://phuketdir.com/valiantpools/index.htm (manufacturer, supplier. Est. 1995. Phuket only)

one thing to remember: NEVER EMPTY YOUR POOL IN THE RAINY SEASON! if your soil contains enough clay, you will end up with a pool lifting out of the ground-floating like a boat. if you were lucky and built with reinforced concrete you might get it back in the ground,but be warned!!

but I would tend to guard against statements like the above , as every pool builder knows about the hydrostatic valves that are built in to most modern maindrain units (which only cost around 1,500 baht complete.) and installs them as a matter of course.

I found this short, sweet and funny article which completely clears up any misunderstandings about pool construction and technology once and for all and in a language everyone can understand. It has all the links you need too. Top marks for its author in Isaan:

ALL You Need To Know About Your First Pool

SERVICE:

Swimming pool maintenance is a Pattaya malady. It's rarely reauested elswhere in the kingdom. If you knew the huge profit margin on these 'maintenance ' visits you might be inclined to pay someone more needy for this extremely basic and easy task.

AUTOMATIC:

For a very small investment, it's possible to save :

• - The intrusion of service personnel on your property (they can't keep their mouths shut about how rich you are and what you've got).
  - The cost of all those wildly overpriced chemicals.
  - Remembering to regularly dose the pool yourself. (1 day's forgetfulness is enough to start problems).
  - Electricity costs (maybe not such a problem).
  

Pool firms don't like to promote the idea because it will lose them the 'regular maintenance' contract. , but for the cost of about one year's chemicals and service, you can invest in a better media than sand in your filter unit together with a programmable saltwater chlorinator (easily retrofitted in a few minutes), programme it, then sit back and forget about your pool worries. Even go away for a few days or weeks to return to find your water sparkling clean.

<snip>

one thing to remember: NEVER EMPTY YOUR POOL IN THE RAINY SEASON! if your soil contains enough clay, you will end up with a pool lifting out of the ground-floating like a boat. if you were lucky and built with reinforced concrete you might get it back in the ground,but be warned!!

I would avise approaching statements like the above with a bit of caution, as every pool builder knows about the hydrostatic valves that are built in to most modern maindrain units (which only cost around 1,500 baht complete.) and installs them as a matter of course.

I found this short, sweet and funny article which completely clears up any misunderstandings about pool construction and technology once and for all and in a language everyone can understand. It has all the links you need too. Top marks for its author:

ALL You Need To Know About Your First Pool

Very nice Bergen, makes me green with envy.

Build a large 3-bed, 2 bath house in Isaan to your own design for less than 600,000 baht with out any compromise on quality?

And build a nice 10 x 5 in ground pool to go with it for only 250,000?

Retiring on a teacher's meagre savings, I had to work to a very strict budget.

See the detailed progress pics and comments and tips of my house near Udon, on next year's budget we will be building four guest bungalows on the land alongside the pool and because the nearest 7-Eleven is 40 km away, my wife wants her own minimart. Photo Album

and for Jay UK,

you may be interested in my comprehensive tips on how to build your pool HERE.

I will also second AEK Udon.

Time for some up-to-date, factual, information.

Right now it is very dangerous to consider obtaining legal employment with any degree that is not genuine and issued by a university accredited by the governments of the US, UK and Australia.

TESOL certificates are fine, but apparently most schools that insist on them want a minimum of a 120 hour face-to-face course. No on-line short courses.

It would be best to get 'part time' employment in one of the language institutes without any qualifications at 250 baht per hour or a well paid corporate teaching job (600 - 1,000 baht per hour) which is not subject to the same regulations - they can even get you a Work Permit.

After searching for a long time, this seems to be the ultimate answer and it looks as if no one can can argue with it, with links to all the government agencies: