ChokChaiChas

there is an errie connection in time between john karr on the front pages and the visa regulation inforcement changes

The Thai government had already drafted the new orders before this unfortunate story. A visa bombshell was widely reported on this forum.

If there was any dispute as to whether to implement the orders John Carr settled that. So we have something to thank him for.

He gave international media an opportunity to focus again on the issue of undesireables taking advantage of Thailand's lax immigration laws, and the unwillingness of Thai authorities to tackle the issue of peadophiles, those "on the run", unqualified teachers who are best kept at a distance from children, and the mafia. Thailand justifiably got a very very bad press.

The decision to ratchet up the enforcement of existing law also possibly would not have happened without John Carr. For that we should also be grateful.

I know of people who are affected by the new orders through force of circumstance. Decent people. (Wife left so cannot renew marriage visa. Moved here with B visa and made redundant). I am sorry for them.

But let's not delude ourself. LOS has been a magnet for low lifes and dregs which reflects on us all. I welcome further tightening of the rules to expunge them and if some innocents get caught up that is unfortunate.

If finally I can rid myself of the embarrasment at confessing I have a Thai wife and live in Thailand, I am happy.

Last I heard US embassy doesn't want to see anything.

...and the Immigration office, knowing the above, is now asking to see the supporting documents.

Pascal, Immigration wants to see evidence of income, not evidence of transfers to your Thai bank account.

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Maestro

I answered the OP question. Avoids confusion

Immigration wants to see both evidence of income and evidence you are living off that. You may have an income of 65k/mth but if you are paying out maintenance for ex-wife/kids (quite possible for a retiree) they will want to see you have access to that money which is why that want to see bank transfers. And yes, I am aware of reports that some are not offering photocopies of bank books and not being asked for them - but these are retirees making their umpteenth extension.

Immigration do not specify what documents they need to see if they are not content with Embassy certification. Anything that confirms investment from investment, rental, pension, or royalties is OK. If your income falls into those categories you should have no trouble in providing suitable documents. Pension statements, rental agreements, share certificates, dividend certficates, investment certificates, bonds, royalties statements......

this shit was is going on since last oktober!

I know!!!!. Once you get the runs it can take so long to get rid of the problem.

Under the given circumstances that we are in a proven holiday period you can extent your Tourist Visa on Monday for another 30days.

That settles the issue then. Conclusive proof.

If you are going to live in Thailand you should declare your status to the UK government

as Non Resident and not Ordinarily Resident and have fees for your services paid gross.

Unless you have a work permit in Thailand you are unlikely to be bothered for any tax in LOS,

especially as you money comes from abroad.

You will fall nicely into the crack, as I have done for years.

The issue is using the income to obtain a 12 month visa extensions on grounds of marriage to Thai, as I understand the OP.

He can do as you say but will need to set up a Thai company and obtain a work permit (seems music arranging is one of the few allowed occupations) and declare the income.

He could obtain an embassy letter and he would not need to diguise his income as "rental" to obtain this. But he would be "sussed" by immigration.

That would have very serious repurcussions for genuine tourists and any kill stone dead any idea at all of Thailand as a 'hub' airport.. Even the 2 airport fiasco doesnt fit this plan either..

Persons using BKK as a hub would not pass through immigration.

Could I (as now) carry on paying tax on that income in the UK (ouch - 22%)

Haven't you heard? Good old Gordon has announced the 22% rate is being reduced to 20% from next April. OK the 10% tax band is abolished but its a nice gesture.

Not only "could" you carry on paying tax on that income Gordon will positively insist on it - if you declare it that is.

You'll be OK - they are really nice down there these days and the girls behind the counter are great fun.

Calenders and dates they can do!.

I am sure some of the board members here can tell of horror stories in yesteryear about visits to Suan Phlu - I remember the first time I was sent to the ' Interrogation Room' - what a title!.

Bright lights and cattle prods it was not.

My own experience is of unfailingly politeness, even friendliness. Sometimes they have tried to make jokes (remember to laugh). I recall two occasions where they were wrong about something. On both occasions upon my querying the matter they spoke with a superior and apologised (not easy for a Thai). I can recall one instance where they were simply marvellous beyond the call of duty - I won't recount the story because no-one would believe it.

But read this forum to see that there is still bloody mindedness and pettiness. But nowhere near what it was.

From what you're saying it's either 800k or 65k/month with letter from the US Embassy. I don't see any reason to have 400k sitting around in order to reduce the 'pension' to 33k.

My US income comes here into a USD account, but as I said irregularly. I guess I can just transfer it into baht at 'regular' monthly intervals at 65k a month for 4 or 5 months.

So the next question would be "What does the US Embassy want to see?" and by what date for my October renewal?

Last I heard US embassy doesn't want to see anything. You just sign a declaration which they certify. About a month before your current permit to stay expires is fine.

I'm another of the retired over-49'ers. My current type-O non-imm 1 year visa expires on April 21. I'm prepared to exit and return to Thailand. My question: in order to gain the additional 3 month extension, do I need to return before the 21st, or can I simply do a border run on the 21st to qualify? thanks in advance for resonses.

Polite query. If your visa expires on 21 April it implies it was issued on 22 April which was a Saturday, which would be unusual unless the back room boys work Saturdays.

The visa normally says "valid until" not "valid through" or "valid until the end of" so to be safe do it a day early. I have had an immigration officer point this out to me so they are aware of it.

In my current passport I have 3 terms on Thai visas:

"Must be utilized before."

"Must be utilized on the date of its issuance"

"Date of expiry"

Re-entry permits show "valid until" and "length of stay until".

Entry stamps are "admitted until"

Extension stamps are "stay permitted up to"

"Utilised before" is quite explicit I would have thought. But it was explained, I clearly recall, that I could enter no later than that day.

Just thought I'd share that.

I'm assuming from your answer I don't qualify for the 400,000 baht reserve.

My income from the US is irrregular, usally every half year and I have to live off it. Could I just put a regular amount in the bank (what is it about 65,000 baht) on the first of every month and make it seem as regular income?

The 400k applies to those renewing marriage extensions. You need an income certificate from US embassy showing at least 65k/month (from what you say you may qualify) . I am not US but my understanding is you can quote any figure you like and they endorse it. That is for your conscience.

My experience is immigration also like to see a bankbook with occasional overseas transfers to you are living off overseas income (and no working here).

From what you write you should be OK.

You can reduce the 65k/month proportionate to any savings that have been in the bank for the previous 3 consecutive months.

Thanks for the responses.

Anyone with any actual experiences with this type of situation?

I do not dispute what Lopburi says. In fact I agree with what he says (except make no mistake you will be on overstay) but you should note he carefully uses the word "should". I would always recommend playing safe if possible as immigration are not predictable.

Whatever, your misdemeanour is trivial in the scheme of things. You would not be detained, that is for sure, but I have read elsewhere you may just get 7 days.

If you go to immigration get there early, Mondays are the busiest day, and the day after a holiday is worse still. You don't want to come up against an official who has become hot and bothered.

Hi,

I came to Bangkok on a Tourist visa and the 60 days are up tomorrow (Saturday, April 7). I need to extend it for another 30 days. I just realized that today is a holiday and i believe the immigration bureau on Sathorn is closed today and tomorrow. It seems the earliest i can go to the Immgration office to get an extension is Monday, April 9 (2 days after visa expires). Will there be any problems when i go to get a visa extension on monday since i will have overstayed 2 days? will they deny the extension?

Thanks

Nobody can say for certain. Don't chance it.

You have the option of doing a border run or a day trip by air to SIN/KL tomorrow and re-entering for 30 days visa free. Do that, however inconvenient.

A friend of mine recently applied for a tourist visa from a Thai embassy in a nearby country. (I won't give too many details because he wouldn't appreciate that.)

He's been in Thailand for over two years. When he submitted the application, he was asked many questions. What was he doing in Thailand? Why had he stayed so long? Was he working? Etc...

Well, he told them that he was working, but that he was working from his laptop. He said all of his money was paid into an overseas account, and nothing came from Thailand. He explained that he could do this work from anywhere in the world, it was not special to Thailand.

He was given the tourist visa without any hassles.

So, to answer the question, in this case it would seem that "work" through the internet isn't considered "work" under Thai immigration law.

More correctly it isn't considered work as the law was interpreted by the embassy official/employee. More likely given the benefit of the doubt.

Your friend is obviously not here as a tourist and he is, by his own admission, working. That he derives no income from Thailand theoretically is irrelevant but is probably what swung it for him.

He may not be so fortunate next time he applies for a visa.

Times they are a'changing

Your bigger problem may actually be qualifing for additional work permits for farangs.

This is usually tied to how many Thai employes you have.. Usually 7 Thais per EACH work permit.

Good Luck

CS

There is often confusion between the Miinstry of Labour requirements to obtain a work permit and the Immgration dept requirements to obtain a 12 month visa extension.

If your not legal and get caught... be prepared to pay the price.

Ireland will feel like a paradise after a few months locked up in an immigration jail somewhere

Let's not exaggerate. He'll only be locked up if he is caught doing illegal work, not working illegally e.g online pornography, or running a book, or some scam. Worst is an overnight (or a weekend) in detention and a free ride to the Airport.

To be fair to him he wants to get legal. Can he? No. Should he come - I don't condone it.

A while back I posted a formula that would allow one, in theory, to stay 6 months.

1. 60 day visa from Consulate

2. 30 extension

90 days.

Then 3 30 day visa runs.

6 months.

Repeat process as needed.

Now by reading this board I've seen conflicting reports on whether or not this would work.

Has anybody tried something like this?

What were the results?

Thank you.

No-one could have disputed your formula.

All the signs are that consecutive 30 day visa runs are to become a thing of the past so the validity of the formula may never be fully tested.

I told her I had a copy ot the Regulation in Thai and the English translation, and that the 6 months is actually rolling and she has to count backwards. She then spoke to a more senior officer who decided that it was OK to let me through. They appolgised profusely and said that they had too much problems with having to count all the days, and could all farangs complain to the higher ups so that they do not have the hassle anymore. So I got my 30 days, but it was a bit touch and go, until I mentioned my connections in high places.

One wonders whether they granted you a thirty-day stamp because they thought your interpretation of the law was correct, or because they thought you might be a potential source of hassle for them later on. I would suspect the latter.

The way I read it is they let him through because they knew he was correct. They told him, in not so many words, they couldn't do with the hassle of counting days. Presumably they thought he was a conduit to someone who still had clout in immigration to whom he would voice their greivance.

You get a 60 day visa at a Consulate such as Savannakhet and the tour companies do run a service there so am quite sure poster is correct.

Indeed. After my first reply the penny dropped that he stated receiving a visa. So I did what I should have done before posting and checked facts. Always a wise precaution!!!!.

I did the JackGolf visa run to Savannakhet about 1 week ago. No proof of funds, no outbound ticket. 60 days tourist visa granted. I 2* visa exemptions previously..

You sure you are not confused with Aranyaprathet/Poipet?

Added 5 minutes later:

Yep. You did mean wrote you wrote. How long Jackgolf been doing this run? I suppose if business is down from 30day visa runner they are seeking alternatives.

I'd think very carefully before relocating to Thailand. As said by previous posters you will be restricted to hunting down tourist visas. It may not cause you concern but there are indications that back to back tourist visas may become a thing of the past to stop people who do not qualify from long term visas from taking up residence here.

Fair or unfair is irrelevant, he writing is on the wall.

That said I agree the chances of you being caught working illegally are nil unless you upset someone.

A thought occurs. A writer spends 9 months in Thailand as a tourist (on a multi-entry tourist visa). Here to gain peace solitude and inspiration. He is writing for profit. Is he working illegally? I've no idea.

To add to my last post.

My reference to conscription was flippant, however I have no wish to cause concern. A male attainnig 18 is only liable for miltary training after having aquired a Thai ID card.

My reference to "apply" for Thai citizenship should read "aquire" which is a right. At risk of labouring the point (and despite the wording of the Act) until the Thai birth certificate is obtained the child is NOT a Thai national.

If a child is born in Thailand of a Thai parent it is a Thai national even if the birth is not registered (although that will store up big problems).

they spent 20-30 years building this huge tourism base with friendly attitudes, making people feel welcome, a fun enjoyable holiday destination with a minimum of hassles. on the present course, it's going to take them about 2-3 years to destroy most of that . it just seems to defy all logical explanation.

My take on this. Genuine tourists are not going to be affected by the changes to the rules. That isn't to say there will not be an isolated instance of an over-zealous immigration officer.

Thailand is encouraging tourism. But a problem they face is the perception in the west that Thailand is populated by low-life expats. This perception is re-inforced in the media. Thailand wants to remove this perception by encouraging those previously abusing the system to leave. They then hope this will have a positive impact on tourist arrivals from the affluent west.

Some have suggested they are throwing out the baby with the bathwater and a lot of decent and/or wealthy expats are voluntarily or unwillingly moving out. Possibly. Certainly many "abusing " the system are decent people who have found themselves doing border runs through force of circumstance. But what they spend is peanuts compared to the potential currency inflow.

The problem has little to do with what potential Western tourists perceive as low-life expats living in Thailand.

Thailand has the reputation of the World's foremost sex-tourism destination and rightly so IMHO.

They are not going to shake that image from the minds of many Westerners easily, if at all.

Nor are they going to be bothered about attracting Western tourists anyway - Asia is the big market.

The problem is in a nutshell that there are too many foreigners living in Thailand in the opinion of many Thais, and more importantly in the opinion of many Thais who make the laws, and probably don't earn great streams of revenue from businesses aimed at foreigners.

Not difficult to appreciate, and there's certainly no secret about the level of xenophobia amongst the majority of Thais.

I agree wholeheartedly with your comment about sex tourism although there is growing competition. Costa Rica has become a favourite with Canadians and US and anything that distracts from Thailand is good us here

I agree that TAT is focussing on Asia and China in particular. But these tourists tend come for shorter stays and spend less. It is still the USD,EUR,GBP they covet, particularly as westerners have far more vacation time and disposable income than the average asian.

One piece of good news. A recent BBC World item focussed on the preference of peadophiles for Cambodia. It did not mention Thailand name but implied many were being forced to move to Cambodia to escape increased police attention elsewhere. More good news.

I am of the opinion that it is the minority low-lifes who are to blame for the current plight of visa runners. Sometimes the simple explanation is the correct one.

I am correct both to my certain knowledge and according to the Link Joe posted. Your daughters are not Thai but they have the right to acquire Thai nationality (an easy process I believe).

Look at the top of the page.

The acquisition of Thai Nationality by birth is enshrined in Thailand's Nationality Act. The birth certificate is not necessary to acquire Thai nationality; it is a record of the person's nationality.

There is a link to the Nationality Act in the pinned topic "Thai Immigration Laws, Regulations, Police Orders", both for the original Thai text and for an English translation. Look at Section 7(1):

"...acquire Thai nationality by birth..."

บุคคลดังต่อไปนี้ย่อมได้สัญชาติไทยโดยการเกิด

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Maestro

I am familiar with the Act, which I why I didn't quote it to the OP. If only it were as simple as quoting from the Act. International law also needs to be considered (something which Thailand finds inconvenient when dealing with nationality claims of certain hill tribes). When the children were born they could have been registered as Thai OR US. Having opted for US the mother now has to apply for Thai citizenship for them. If she had opted for Thai the OP would have had to apply for US citizenship for them.

At the moment they are not Thai nationals and were they to travel to Thailand they would have the protection of the US govt. If they obtain dual nationality they will lose that protection.

Were you right theoretically any 18year old foriegn national male with Thai parent could find himself liable for conscription