vantexan

I'm sold on Colombia. They've got a new pensionado visa that requires $750 U.S. a month income. And due to Spirit Airlines(although their pilots are currently striking) I can fly from a number of major cities there to Ft.Lauderdale for very little, saw $99 one way fare to Medellin the other day, and that is a common fare, not a special. After looking at fares to other countries I looked at where Spirit flies and it looks like Colombia is the best bet. And they are much safer these days, nothing like riots in Bangkok going on. Can get DirecTV Latin America with most of the English channels including HBO, etc. Internet is excellent too. And you can buy property, including the land under it. Read yesterday that average Colombian professionals like lawyers, dentists, etc make around $10,000 a year. If interested look up ColombiaExperts and Colombia Expats on Yahoo Groups. And search on Google for Colombia Blog, which has a large forum. If you prefer it hot with beaches check out Cartagena and Santa Marta on Google. Cartagena is an international tourist destination that's extremely safe due to strong police presence to protect tourists. Many consider it the most beautiful colonial city in South America. If you prefer mild temps in the mountains check out Bogota, Medellin, and a number of small cities like Manizales. If you like postcard perfect little towns in beautiful mountain settings they've got quite a few of those, several of which have good amenities due to tourism. And if you are into adventure sports check out San Gil, the country's adventure capital. Whitewater rafting, hiking, caving, mountain biking, parasailing, swimming under waterfalls, it's got everything. Something for everyone, and one plus is that around Medellin it's majority white. Can blend in, although you'll want to know some Spanish. And Colombian ladies are very beautiful, older men can do well there although it's definitely an economic relationship for most. But Colombian women are much more traditional than those in some Western nations. I'll concede it's hard to beat Thailand or the Philippines for their women, but for sheer beauty Colombia ranks right up there with the best.

I am surprised at some of the reasons given/discussed about where to retire , for me it is to lead a happy and contented life , incuring the least amount of hastles along the road to my final demise .

My passports had filled rapidly with 'OTHER ' visas which had become an absolute if I wished to reside in Thailand ad finitum , so one day I said to myself "Self , why do you not just stay in one of those countries you have spent so much of your money on visiting for an hour or so merely to appease a government that does not even appreciate your actual exsistance ". I moved into Cambodia for a month and could not believe the difference in the way I was accepted by the local populace , yes , things in general were some-what arcaic by comparison , it was a step back in time considering many things , but did I NEED all of the consumerism to which I had become accustomed as I went through life ? The answer I gave to myself was a resounding NO , I had grown up in a poor family and I must confess , life had been happy and practicaly none problomatic , I had no practical need for most of the things I had accumulated as absolute essentials for a good life .

I made the move into Cambodia some 5 years ago and have watched its progress slowly but surely into the future , my health has improved eating healthy food one can consider almost organic , fruits not impaired by massive applications of fertilizers etc and a populace in the main not consumed by averice , but as happy as I had been in my early years with almost nothing to be unhappy about due to a contented state of mind . My life has become what retirement to me should be , simplistic and trouble free with a wife that fills my every need , we have properties that give sustanance to her family , a good apartment in the city with everything close at hand that we need and there is decent medical care available if and when needed . My visa is a once a year walk to a friendly travel agent , the friendly airport a half hour away without the scalpers and rip-off artists , no hustle , no bustle , to me it has become my home merely because I am truly welcomed to be here and live a life comfortable within my small means .

I would not return to Thailand if all was free , there is too much disaray to contend with and in general , money is the only guiding light to contentment of a sort I no longer require in my life .

That was very well said. I have a cousin in Atlanta who has a Cambodian wife. He greatly enjoys going over to visit her family. I've considered it, but have to admit I'm not a fan of heat and humidity. I've lived in several of the most hottest, humid places in the U.S. and would just as soon avoid it. I do wish countries I'm interested in made it as easy as Cambodia does to live there. I don't need alot, but I do want access to American movies in English, and I mean theaters, not pirated dvd's. Beyond that I think Phnom Penh would be interesting.

Be careful with International Living. They have vested interests in many countries, so the articles are very slanted. I went to Panama one year and found it was nothing like what was stated on IL. Then found out they own a real estate company there! Or at least own a part interest.

Best bet is to go to Yahoo Groups and find groups on expats living in a specific country. Panama has probably more groups than any other country except maybe the Philippines. Costa Rica has a few too. Honduras has a good one, as well as Ecuador. Many on the Ecuador expats group moved there from Panama. What Panama has going for it is the best perks for retirees anywhere. Discounts on just about everything. Thanks in part to International Living it's real estate has gotten expensive, especially in popular expat areas. By the way, the Thai Visa Forum is the single best country specific forum I've seen. Maybe others of similar quality out there, but haven't found them yet. Mexico Connect is pretty good.

Ecuador doesn't have a retirement visa that I'm aware of, may be wrong.

Definitely wrong:

http://www.ecuador.org/immigrantvisas.htm#pensioner

Per International Living as of April 2010:

"Retirement documents showing a stable income of at least $800 monthly, certified to be correct by the party responsible for the source of the funds, and authenticated by the Ecuadorian Consul in your country of origin."

Only $800/month for retirement residency, wow. I just found this thread. I've gotta read up more on Ecuador (and the other alternatives). Unfortunately I am seriously considering not returning to LOS after I visit the States this summer.

My priorities: Pleasant weather (70s, low humidity), inexpensive cost of living, $USD, a language easy to learn and speak -- Ecuador seems to fit. Also considering Mexico if I can find an affordable area with suitable weather.

Ideally I'd like to live an RVing life in the U.S., chasing the good weather, but it appears that is far beyond my means ($2K/month SS).

I was considering RVing in Mexico. Plenty of RV parks, plus variations in altitude keeps the climate reasonable. The problems with the drug cartels, especially in the north, turned me off to the idea. Mexico has serious problems but whether they'll affect you is a roll of the dice. Decided not worth it to find out. But if it's for you check out "Mexican Camping" by Mike and Terry Church. It's the bible of Mexican RVing, new edition came out late last year.

vantexan

That's interesting, actually Ecuador looked very promising until I got to the part where they tax world wide income. I guess if you have little money it is of no concern. but if you are living comfortable and plan to keep doing so puts Ecuador out of the picture. Unless they have changed their tax rates and policies.

NDIVIDUAL TAXATION

Residents are taxed on their worldwide income. Married couples are taxed separately.

INCOME TAX

Income is taxed at progressive rates. Expenses and costs incurred in obtaining, maintaining, and preserving the revenues subject to the tax are deductible.

INCOME TAX

TAXABLE INCOME, US$

TAX RATE

Up to US$7,850

nil

US$7,850 - US$10,000

5% on band over US$7,850

US$10,000 - US$12,500

10% on band over US$10,000

US$12,500 - US$15,000

12% on band over US$12,500

US$15,000 - US$30,000

15% on band over US$15,000

US$30,000 - US$45,000

20% on band over US$30,000

US$45,000 - US$60,000

25% on band over US$45,000

US$60,000 - US$80,000

30% on band over US$60,000

Over US$80,000

55% on all income over US$80,000

Something to check out before you commit if it matters to you.

Thanks for the info. Your earlier post is true, found on a forum where it was discussed a year ago. Many of these expats on the forums I follow are new to Ecuador. It will be interesting to see how things turn out over time. I still have some time to figure this out. I wonder if there's a difference between "income" and pensions, Social Security, etc., for tax purposes in Ecuador?

If you become a resident of Ecuador they require you provide them with all information regarding your assets, income, property liabilities world wide. Very Very long list. See below

Annual reporting of net worth to SRI since may 2008. It is in Spanish but you'll get the idea, 150 lines long. Makes what the US requires look like a walk in the park. Sorry you'll have to copy and paste url

http://www.sri.gov.ec/sri/formularios/form...ato--022452.xls

Just talked with some expats living in Cuenca for over a year now. The only info they had to supply concerning their income, etc was to supply proof that they had sufficient income to support themselves. Said that they have found Cuenca even better than their research on the internet revealed. And that there are quite a few expats there who get by with just a few Spanish words, although they recommended learning the language. I've read there are an estimated 700 American expats there, many more European expats. One guy said if Ecuador is socialist, it has to be the most capitalistic socialist country in the world.

If you become a resident of Ecuador they require you provide them with all information regarding your assets, income, property liabilities world wide. Very Very long list. See below

Annual reporting of net worth to SRI since may 2008. It is in Spanish but you'll get the idea, 150 lines long. Makes what the US requires look like a walk in the park. Sorry you'll have to copy and paste url

http://www.sri.gov.ec/sri/formularios/form...ato--022452.xls

Thanks for the heads up. Based on the info Jingthing provided guess the pensioner's visa is the way to go there.

Most likely Cuenca, Ecuador because it's an anomaly. Big enough to have everything you need, great scenery, mild weather year'round, safe, mostly middle class, can have permanent residency with all the rights of citizenship by buying property there. Can buy very reasonably priced condo's in great neighborhoods with everything in walking distance or cheap taxiride. World class colonial architecture. And closest place to the States with these qualitys. International Living named Cuenca the world's number 1 retiree destination. It has great medical too, including a private hospital affiliated with the Boston University Medical Center. You can get private insurance through them if you are under 70 starting at $85 a month. U.S. Dollar is the currency, no fluctuations. Even has a couple of multiplex theaters playing American movies in English with Spanish subtitles. A couple who own their home can be comfortable on $700 a month, bump that up to $1100 if you rent, a bit more if you own a car. Ecuador is OPEC's newest member too, last i read gas costs $1.50 a gallon there. DirecTV Latin America has most of the English channels on it, including the movie channels. Daily highs are generally in the mid-70's, can cool off a bit at night, can get into the 40's at night in the winter. I've seen repeatedly from expats there that the streets are clean, noise is minimal, no crowing roosters, no mangy, starving dogs in the streets. It's an anomaly for Latin America.

Once there,have a walk -alone- in the streets after 10PM..

Do it for a few nights and report back to us...

People flock to Thailand for a reason..

To tell you the truth if I were to walk alone anywhere after 10 p.m. it would most likely be Chile. But as I said, Cuenca is an anomaly. It's mostly middle class, doesn't have the crime of Quito. And it's actually a fair sized city of 450,000 with modern malls, plenty of restaurants, etc. It's a UNESCO World Heritage site, is possibly the most beautiful city in South America. Not as spectacular a setting as Rio but still very nice. Cuenca also has some of the best water in South America, drinkable from the tap. I'm not here to push Cuenca, just suggesting it as an alternative worth the trouble of investigating. It doesn't have the sex trade of Thailand, although Latin America is big on that, just not as open as some places. But the biggest plus for me is the weather. I hate heat and humidity, which is why I'm crossing Cambodia off. And I live in east Texas, grew up in central Florida. My biggest concern is finding an affordable place with a nice quality of life, reasonably close to the States with good television and internet, cheap restaurants, walkable for exercise. Cuenca is the best I've found that is close to the U.S.. Could make an argument for a number of Mexican cities but until Mexico gets control back from the cartels I'll pass.

Ecuador doesn't have a retirement visa that I'm aware of, may be wrong. Best bet is making a $25k investment in real estate, or park it in a bank. You become a permanent resident then. Only catch is to keep residency you must live in Ecuador 9 months a year for first 2 years. After that can come and go as you please. One thing I really like is that I can go to the Philippines, find a wife, and easily bring her to Ecuador. Try that in the States, not to mention the costs!

IMHO, I would say Uruguay is on top..........I am now fascinated by the place.

By the way, I am tired of doing the summary.

I am the OP. I have been updating over and over again (I think very useful but.........getting tired doing it).

Will another person please volunteer to take over. Thanks.

I followed the forum at UruguayLiving.com for about a year. Finally decided it wasn't for me. It's not a terrible place, but I think the closest description of the place I've seen is "it's Iowa with a nice beach." It's safe violent crime wise, but the lack of job opportunities has resulted in a high theft rate. That and a lack of mountains crosses it off my list. Not the best climate, although not the worst. It can get hot and humid in the summer, and housing is built with little if any insulation. Can result in very cold homes in the winter.

You should check out La Serena, Chile. Not too big, good shopping, great colonial atmosphere. One plus of Uruguay is lack of earthquakes. West side of Argentina and all of Chile pretty prone to 'quakes. Another mountain range outside of the Andes is in the Cordoba, Argentina area. Some very popular towns in the mountains near Cordoba, and Cordoba has everything without being the huge metropolis Buenos Aires is. Mendoza on west side near Chilean border is also very popular. If you are looking for mountain towns with a great lifestyle go to Google Images and look up Bariloche and San Martin de los Andes. Another place worth checking out is Puerto Varas, Chile. It was featured on the CBS show "The Amazing Race" this season.

One thing that is a big draw for me in SE Asia is the food. Argentina and Uruguay are known for their steaks, Chile for seafood. But everything I've read on the subject says Peru has the best food in South America, and probably the only country in S.A. that is comparable to SE Asia in interesting cuisine. I love steak, but wouldn't want to eat it or variations of beef at every meal.

If you are white, and just want to blend in, Argentina is your best bet, followed by Uruguay, then to some extent Chile.

Right now for me it's coming down to Ecuador or Cambodia. Possibly Mendoza or La Serena. Most likely Cuenca, Ecuador because it's an anomaly. Big enough to have everything you need, great scenery, mild weather year'round, safe, mostly middle class, can have permanent residency with all the rights of citizenship by buying property there. Can buy very reasonably priced condo's in great neighborhoods with everything in walking distance or cheap taxiride. World class colonial architecture. And closest place to the States with these qualitys. International Living named Cuenca the world's number 1 retiree destination. It has great medical too, including a private hospital affiliated with the Boston University Medical Center. You can get private insurance through them if you are under 70 starting at $85 a month. U.S. Dollar is the currency, no fluctuations. Even has a couple of multiplex theaters playing American movies in English with Spanish subtitles. A couple who own their home can be comfortable on $700 a month, bump that up to $1100 if you rent, a bit more if you own a car. Ecuador is OPEC's newest member too, last i read gas costs $1.50 a gallon there. DirecTV Latin America has most of the English channels on it, including the movie channels. Daily highs are generally in the mid-70's, can cool off a bit at night, can get into the 40's at night in the winter. I've seen repeatedly from expats there that the streets are clean, noise is minimal, no crowing roosters, no mangy, starving dogs in the streets. It's an anomaly for Latin America.

Last I read Ecuador will give permanent residency by either buying real estate worth at least $25,000 or depositing $25k in an Ecuadorean bank. That gives you all the rights of citizens except right to vote or hold office.

Belize: according to one poster, it is the most expensive country in Central America (find hard to believe and would like more information on cost of living) and yet has minimal infrastructure. It's real draw is beach living and it's islands. However crime, especially in Belize City, is very high; great lobsters; scuba diving

Belize pegs it's money 2:1 to the American Dollar. That, along with most items are imported as little is produced locally, keeps things fairly expensive. If you live like a local, living in a simple wood house and eating mostly beans and rice and chicken you can live cheaply. That also means no air conditioning, no car, limited electricity. If you want an American lifestyle you'll pay alot, and still have to do without things like modern supermarkets. There are 2 paved 2 lane highways in the country, one north-south, one east-west.

Some other things about Argentina...97% European heritage. 50% Italian, 30% Spanish, substantial English, Irish, French, German, Welsh and other minorities. Argentines like to camp, campgrounds in most towns. You'll find cineplexes in most small cities and large cities have multiple choices. Most American movies play there, usually in English with Spanish subtitles unless childrens' movie. Actually American owned cineplexes are in most of Latin America now, especially Cinemark. Argentina is slightly smaller than India but only has about 44 million people. It's one of the few countries that produces everything it needs but is so poorly managed it struggles financially. The gov't confiscated the national retirement fund last year to pay for it's socialist programs. Buenos Aires has far and away the best bookstores in Latin America. It's a very literate population.

I agree ultimately that Argentina, between rising costs and hassles, isn't worth it. The hassles are endless red tape and systemic corruption. I've read many times that get away from the biggest cities and the people are some of the most genuinely friendly in the world. There's a reason for all the psychiatry in the cities, especially Buenos Aires. Way too much emphasis placed on outward beauty too. If the most beautiful women in the world is what you are after then Argentina is definitely in the running. Go to Google Images, search Argentinian babe, holy Toledo! Turn off safe search and get your eyes melted! But if you are looking for just one really sweet lady who will treat you right might be hard to beat Asia IMO.

I was set on retiring to Chiang Mai but all the posts on Thai Visa about rising costs, pollution, red tape, xenophobic attitudes turned me off. The reason I came back to specificly this sub-forum was to search for info on Cambodia. Latin America has issues that I don't want to deal with. Machismo, crime, anti-Americanism, red tape, instability, poor infrastructure, the nagging feeling that the young woman you marry is running around on you. I know where I can buy 5 acres of desert land in the States for $1000 and camp on it for next to nothing cost wise. Annual taxes are less than $50. I can have satellite tv, radio, no hassles with red tape, no visa issues. But only a few hundred people in the area, heck in area bigger than Massachusetts there's less than 10,000 people. Biggest hassle is rattlesnakes. Not sure I want to go that route. Phnom Penh sounds interesting and I like the excellent range of food choices there. Opening up another can of tuna or beef stew way out in the desert could get pretty old!

Another point, the initial application for the Argie retirement is actually MUCH more complex than a Thai retirement visa (O-A) or retirement extensions. All documents must have official translations and it must be started from your home country's Argie embassy. If you are a long term resident outside your home country, I don't know if you can use their Argie embassy or not. My impression is that most people dealing with long term Argie immigration need to spend thousands of dollars on legal fees. There are also all kinds of catch 22's, such as you can't open a bank account there without a DNI (their identity number), yet of course you will need a bank account there. There is also very common double pricing there on big items such as real estate and rentals, in my view actually worse than Thailand. Another aspect, it is required to learn Spanish to get by there. English translations are not all that common and there will be a strong expectation that you speak it to live there.

Jingting, you are compelling me to perhaps take Argentina off the list of possible retirement destinations, given what income range we are talking about here.

Some notes on Argentina. Many expats make border runs on tourist cards for many years. Argentina has no problem with that. Google Buenos Aires Expats Forum for tons of info. Many Argentines speak English. The Buenos Aires Herald is an excellent newspaper in English. Still, once there you'd want to take classes and get up to speed. I think the inflation issue is serious, but it may lead to another crisis. Might be worth moving there for a few years if the Peso is devalued again. Can always plan your next move while enjoying the best steaks in the world at near giveaway prices!

Should've mentioned Uruguay in my last post. Google UruguayLiving.com for an excellent forum. Uruguay has low violent crime but serious property crime. You have to be vigilant to live there. A British couple went out to eat their first day there to take a break from unpacking. Came back 3 hrs later to find everything gone! It's a serious problem there. One place I like is Colonia del Sacramento, possibly the prettiest colonial town in South America and Portugese colonial to boot. Interesting thing is it's about 1.5 hrs by ferry across from Buenos Aires. It's where B.A. expats go to renew their tourist cards.

Go to Yahoo Groups, search for living in Colombia. There's a new Group that has great info about visas, etc. Colombia officially requires a substantial pension to live there, but doesn't enforce it. Expats are living comfortably there in smaller cities for much less than $1000 a month. Definitely a place you need Spanish though to truly enjoy it. I think the Group is called Colombia_Expats, not certain.

Use Yahoo Groups for country specific expat forums. For example do a search on Yahoo Groups for Philippines living or Philippines retire and you'll pull up many Groups, some with many thousands of members. Panama is another country that will have alot of large Groups.

Alot of the growth in expat retirement in especially Costa Rica, Panama, and Ecuador is due to relentless promotion of companies like International Living. IL can provide good info, but usually at a cost, and they always have "contacts" that hawk real estate in various countries.

Argentina became the single best bargain in Latin America, possibly the world, after their monetary crisis of 2002. Literally overnight after their peso was devalued costs were 75% less in American Dollars. Unfortunately while the exchange rate has hovered around 3.8 Pesos to the Dollar rampant inflation has brought costs back up close to where they were pre-crisis. However outside of Buenos Aires there are many choices with a good quality of life that are reasonably priced. And as one of the world's largest countries there's climate and scenery that suits about anyone. They have some nice beach towns but winter weather on the coast is pretty raw. Some cities popular with expats are Mendoza, Bariloche, Salta, and Cordoba. But Buenos Aires is the big draw for foreigners, world class city if you are an urbanite.

Belize is the most expensive country in Central America and yet has minimal infrastructure. It's real draw is beach living and it's islands. However crime, especially in Belize City, is very high.

Costa Rica is sort of the Thailand of Latin America. It was the top expat location but so many foreigners moved in that the government ended most of the great retiree incentives it offered. Crime and costs have soared. Still, many expats there but also many moved out, especially to Panama.

Panama sensed an opportunity and developed a retiree incentive program that International Living calls the world's best. Retirees get discounts on travel, entertainment, shopping, services. But like Costa Rica so many have moved in that the country is having growing pains. Like Thailand most of the country is very hot and humid. The highland town of Boquette has a very nice climate and has been heavily promoted by International Living. And it's First World prices reflect that.

Ecuador has one city in particular, Cuenca, that is very beautiful, mild but cool climate, all the amenities. Yahoo Groups has an excellent group call Ecuador Expats with good info. Ecuador does have crime issues. Somebody mentioned Esmeraldes which is the most crime ridden area of the country. Cuenca in general is safe, using common sense.

Colombia has gone a long way towards fixing it's problems. Terrorist groups have been marginalized to remote areas and drug cartels are no longer threatening stability. Bogota's north side looks like a prosperous American city. Security is everywhere, people go out there. The city that's attracting alot of expats is Medellin. It has a year'round spring like climate and is very clean. Check out the "Poor but Happy" forum(Google that).

Chile is the most expensive country in Latin America as well as it's most prosperous with excellent infrastructure. With the big earthquake probably not a good time to be there.

And my personal favorite? San Cristobal de las Casas, Chiapas, Mexico. Go to Google Images to see pictures. City is about 140,000, has multiplex playing American movies in English, best English language bookstore in Mexico, Walmart and Sam's club are opening stores there, has beautiful pedestrian only streets in the center, can be comfortable there on $700 a month, live very well on $1200. Unlike northern Mexico these days, San Cristobal is safe, with much to see and do. Single biggest drawback is wet season with alot of rain. But at 7000' overall it's mild most of the time, but nights can get chilly.

About 12 years ago, in my mid 30's, I realized that the major corporation I work for wasn't going to provide the future for me I wanted. About the same time I ran across a book about living in Mexico. Realizing that my company's pension plan would go alot further outside the U.S. I started exploring the possibilities. I've come to the conclusion that while there are many places that I could afford to live in with a small pension, very few have the amenities I want. I like bookstores, multi-plex theatres, good food at cheap prices. I also want a wife I can communicate with. I've decided the Philippines is the best place to find an English speaking wife. But I'll most likely bring her to Chiang Mai or Penang, Malaysia. The Philippines is a beautiful country, but will soon have over 100 million people in an area less than half the size of Thailand. Things are breaking down there due to population pressure. The bigger cities have decent amenities, but traffic, crime, pollution, and poverty are ridiculous. Another place I'd consider is Guatemala. There are some very nice small cities with an excellent climate and spectacular scenery. However crime is a real problem. If you want a country that's safe with beautiful scenery, great climate, and near first world infrastructure in Latin America, Chile is it. Argentina and Uruguay are good options. If women are your first priority, Brazil, Costa Rica, and the Dominican Republic are probably your best bets. I'm finding that if you want good reading material in a non-English speaking country you have to look for large British expat colonies. As an avid reader a big plus for living in Thailand is it's a quick trip to Singapore for huge bookstores. For books in English in Latin America it's a long trip to the States. This may not matter to most but I feel that to leave your home country and successfully establish a life elsewhere you've got to have much of what you enjoy available to you. I read of so many trying to live in other countries and ultimately going home. Just from reading I think Thailand has the best combination of things that will keep me interested, challenged, and comfortable. Going back to the States to do drudge work just to exist will only happen if that is better than living elsewhere. Not likely!

This thread is very informative for a would-be Chiang Mai retiree. I'm wondering how much you would need in the States to have a comparable lifestyle to what $1000 a month provides in Chiang Mai? That would help some of us judge where we're at retirement savings wise. Judging by some responses Chiang Mai sounds like it's comparable in cost to parts of the U.S.. If that's so I may need to look elsewhere. I live in Lubbock, TX which is one of the cheapest metro areas in the country. Pretty certain $1000 a month here wouldn't provide much of a life. Thanks for any advice.

van, I will bet Chiang Mai is cheaper than Lubbock. For all of us big spenders here, there are many farang who live happily on about $1,000 or $1,300 per month. I went from paying a dollar per square foot for a small apartment in central Houston , to paying seven baht per square foot for a nice, spacious, furnished condo in CMai. And that was when there were 42 baht to the dollar.

Besides, I thought the only thing to see in Lubbock was the statue of Buddy Holly.

Thanks guys for the reassurances! I spent a week of vacation in Lubbock last week. Can't imagine 20+ years doing that!

This thread is very informative for a would-be Chiang Mai retiree. I'm wondering how much you would need in the States to have a comparable lifestyle to what $1000 a month provides in Chiang Mai? That would help some of us judge where we're at retirement savings wise. Judging by some responses Chiang Mai sounds like it's comparable in cost to parts of the U.S.. If that's so I may need to look elsewhere. I live in Lubbock, TX which is one of the cheapest metro areas in the country. Pretty certain $1000 a month here wouldn't provide much of a life. Thanks for any advice.

Didn't know if this would be the correct forum to post but here goes. I have a vacation planned in Thailand (Bangkok and its surrounding areas) for 3 weeks in May. I'm in my early 30's, single, no kids, no previous marriages, and looking to meet a Thai girl (not for prostitution purposes) potentially when I'm there. I've always been attracted to Asian girls (this coming from an American caucasion) and have really admired those who are from Thailand. Not that I want to jump into a marriage...but I'd like to meet a native Thai girl who is interested in a long term monogomous relationship that could potentially lead to marriage. My question is this: are there any reputable internet dating sites that can jump start a relationship for me and not rip me off? I'm not looking for the classic "mail order" bride either. Just a web resource, like Match.com, that can connect Americans with Thai people for an actual relationship. So that when I arrive in May, I could have at least some friendships established. There seems to be a million google results that come up when i do a search for internet dating with Thai girls and most are questionable. Any help would be appreciated.

You should consider the Philippines also. English speaking, Christian nation if that matters to you. White men are very welcomed there, not only for financial reasons but culturally light skin is considered a desirable trait. You will find many women everywhere you go there who are very interested in you. I don't think the Philippines is the best choice for fulltime living, but if there's an easier place for an older white man to find a younger wife, especially one who speaks English and will treat him well, someone please tell me!

I tried to keep my original question as respectful as possible but it's amazing some of the perspectives given. But mostly this turned out to be very informative. I appreciate the experience and hard earned wisdom shared. Bottom line after reading all this is Thailand isn't easy, but it's worth the effort. But whether or not I end up there depends on Thai authorities keeping the financial requirements reasonable. And 10 years is a very long time where Thai authorities are concerned! Thanks again.

Hi, just got the second edition of Retiring in Thailand by Phillip Bryce. I had just purchased the first edition a few months ago but noticed on Amazon the new one with updated info.

He portrays Thais as very relaxed with foreigners,

- Too many of them here, sorry to say you will not be getting ?.huu haa! or shock& awe! reaction from the thai anymore. You are just one of many blobs here

very happy to share their country with outsiders.

- As long as you?re not a trouble maker, so behave yourself while in Thailand

Yet I keep reading on here that Thais are xenophobic,

- I would say we?re trained to be a ?nationalist? since in the cradle time

and are doing everything possible to encourage farangs to leave. What's the truth?

- There are 2 sides of the same coin

Assuming I can afford to retire there in 10 years, will I be faced with constant hassle and harrassment? Or is it that once in awhile I'll have to deal with some red tape ...?

- You wouldn?t be facing the red tape if you follow the rules. Their house their rules, your house your rules ? that the way it is in this world.

If a quality lifestyle can be had for considerably less than the West, I don't mind the red tape.

- Nothing worth can be had, without sacrificing something in return

But if I sense constant resentment from the locals everywhere I go, I'd rather be elsewhere. So what's the truth?

- What?re you planning to do to earn such the resentment? And don?t worry you can be easily replaced here.

==============================

I'm not planning to do anything to earn resentment. It's part of life in some places. I've lived in 3 towns on the Mexican border and have experienced open hostility from many there for just being white. Some of the posts here make me think many Thais feel the same way. Glad to hear it isn't so! By the way, red tape is a euphemism for dealing with the machinations of bureaucracy. You experience red tape even if you follow the rules. Not sure why you're reading what I'm writing as negative. I'm trying to find out if Thais want me, or farangs in general, in Thailand. If so great, sounds like a wonderful country. If not, I'll look elsewhere. Regards.

The truth !?!

You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has Thais. And those Thais have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You?

You know, after all these years, if you ask a question with the word truth in it someone almost always brings up A Few Good Men, LOL! Thanks for easing my mind everyone. I had been looking at Mexico, then various other Latin American countries, then for quite awhile the Philippines. The Phils are beautiful islands, they speak English, and they like Americans. But the infrastructure is bad, corruption is systemic, and I've seen very few on forums who actually like Filipino food. For years I thought Thailand was a backpacker haven but after getting discouraged with the Philippines I ran across an article about Chiang Mai. Sounded like everything I wanted. And after eating at our 2 local Thai restaurants, I was sold. All this lead to Thai Visa. I learn a lot here but get a little worried about how upset some get about current conditions in Thailand. If things don't look good in 10 years, hopefully 6 years, there's always Malaysia. And I've seen it said many times that you can't escape your past, that you bring your problems with you when you move across your state, the country, or to another country altogether. I'm not perfect but I'm interested in other cultures, have no sordid past, no angry ex'es, no mountain of debt, no anger at America or white women. But I have worked hard for a very long time with so-so pay and a very modest pension. I want to find a wife and be able to provide well for her and our kids. Just trying to make the most of the last third of my life. Sorry for the long post!

Hi, just got the second edition of Retiring in Thailand by Phillip Bryce. I had just purchased the first edition a few months ago but noticed on Amazon the new one with updated info. He portrays Thais as very relaxed with foreigners, very happy to share their country with outsiders. Yet I keep reading on here that Thais are xenophobic, and are doing everything possible to encourage farangs to leave. What's the truth? Assuming I can afford to retire there in 10 years, will I be faced with constant hassle and harrassment? Or is it that once in awhile I'll have to deal with some red tape and some of you feel indignant about having to jump through some hoops to live there? If a quality lifestyle can be had for considerably less than the West, I don't mind the red tape. But if I sense constant resentment from the locals everywhere I go, I'd rather be elsewhere. So what's the truth?

New info on Panama changes, sounds like a reasonable thing to do. The banking systems sounds great with longer term term deposits paying 7%, once a year interest payment.

that information must be years old...

if it refers to US-Dollars.

=================

Panama uses the American Dollar as their currency although they call it the Balboa. The problem with Panama for me is that where the weather is pleasant there's little to do. And Panama isn't cheap. The expat areas have gotten overpriced as they've been heavily promoted by International Living Magazine. I asked about 4 years ago on a Panama Yahoo group if they were concerned about the country getting ruined like Costa Rica by real estate promoters. They laughed and scoffed at the idea that their little paradise would be affected. I noticed about 2 years ago that all hel_l was breaking loose on various Yahoo groups. People were up in arms about developers drawing literally thousands of new retirees in and driving prices thru the roof. The country has changed quickly and now the government appears to be trying to reign it in. Similarly in Costa Rica, several hundred thousand relatively wealthy foreigners moved into a country of 3.5 million, changing it drasticly. The central plateau of Costa Rica has one of the world's best climates, and it was once a true paradise for those with a small pension. But the locals got priced out of the housing market, crime has soared, and the government has ended all the incentives it had to encorage people to move there. And outside real estate speculators were behind much of it. And now much of South America is turning leftist, including Ecuador. Unfortunately our corporations have had a hand in that. They saw those countries as a source of cheap labor to be exploited. That has opened the door to demagogues like Chavez in Venezuela to grab power by railing against Yankee imperialism. Bottom line for me is if I stay in the Americas it will be either in Central America or the far south end of South America i.e. Argentina, Chile, or Uruguay. But the only place I feel has the overall quality of life I want is Chiang Mai, and I'm wondering if by the time I get there that'll no longer be the case.

First I have heard of this but then again it was very low on the list when almost everything as far as real estate involves

a expat in it. The temp is just a bit unbearable most of the year, also Florida real Estate is cheaper now to boot and that place is a shithole. Florida a place to keep elder parents is about it as far as I am concerned and another place that has or will have severe potable water problems to come.

ave already been tightened.

JR Texas: to Vantexan: Malaysia is probably fine now (Penang?) but radical Islam is rising and the government has a policy in place to INCREASE the size of the population by 70 million people, last time I looked (totally insane population policy.....so it is set for future ruin and it will severely impact southern...

Considering Malaysia has 24 million people now and most live on the peninsula that would be crazy. From reading I've learned that Malaysian Muslims aren't Shia or Sunni but a sect that promotes peace. Most likely a radical few there but the vast majority appear to like foreigners. Penang is an island state in Malaysia that is the only state that isn't majority Malay. Has a Chinese majority of 60% with about an 8% Indian minority if i remember right. Like Chiang Mai Penang is noted for it's food. Islands Magazine just named it one of the 20 best islands in the world to live on. Sea breezes moderate the ciimate somewhat. The Malaysia My Second Home program is now open to anyone and offers a 10 year visa that allows you to come and go as you please. And as a former British colony most Malaysians speak English. 10,000 foreigners have moved to Malaysia so far under their program.

JR Texas: Some of us are sick and tired of the heat and humidity (and water and air pollution) in the lowlands........the Philippines has Baguio (supposedly a cool expat haven in the mountains), Panama has Boqueta (a cool expat haven in the mountains).......does Thailand have an expat haven in the mountains?

As far as I know, the answer is "no." Some people will probably sai "Pai," but I do not think it is that cool and is too undeveloped. I do know Thais are scared of the mountains.......they think ghosts (Peeeeeeeee) live up there.

If it's cheap and cool you want check out Guatemala and Ecuador. Quite a few Americans live in both countries. You can be very comfortable in Quetzaltenango, also known as Xela, Guatemala, for less than $800 a month. Google Xela Pages for more info. 2 other locations very popular with Americans and others in Guatemala are Panajachel and Antigua. They're more expensive than Xela but reasonable. The Philippines have 84 million people in an area about half the size of Thailand with Asia's highest birthrate. The problems they have will only get worse. Baguio is known for bad air and earthquakes. One of the most seismicly active areas in a country known for earthquakes.

I'm wondering why Malaysia isn't considered more by many here? Is it due to the Muslim population and thus much more restrictive entertainent wise? I'm really attracted to the idea of having great food, bookstores, and movies in Chiang Mai, but Penang sounds like a good alternative.