farangfool

I thought that the Suay were actually Vietnamese, and from what is today's North Vietnam. I came across references now and then. Apparently they moved first into today's South Laos, around Attapue, before moving on to Surin. The area was controlled by the Thais in those days.

A friend of mine is half Suay and half southern Thai. Poor girl got her father's dark tan and not mom's white skin.

Thus, the language is not a Khmer dialect (if my info is correct). The local claim that it is a form of Khmer but not intelligible is a nice example on nationalist Khmer figuring.

The Khmer around Surin speak an old form of the language. My ex could communicate in Siem Reap. Her family was originally from there and left when the French took over. The settlement history of the region must have been greatly impacted by the railway construction in the 1920s. In Sisaket province the administrative center was shifted to today's location.

So, "you have an inherent ability to differentiate fact from fiction" good for you.

The reference to Clockwork Orange has been blown out of all proportion but the basic facts of the incident were reported as fully as was decent - though not on this site. Personally I think mentioing the film was a mistake but that does not change the facts.

And "the judicial system still functions on facts" - is that why the police routinely hold reconstructions which are then shown in court as if fact; and that the police as in this case too seem not too interested in establishinmg facts.

Thank you for acknowledging my superior abilities. They were honed at the student pub during my sejour in university.

Unfortunately, you still don't get it. The Daily Mail article was short on facts. As several people have pointed out, allegations are made but not substantiated. It is claimed that the UK embassy ignored the victims and the police dismissed the claims. Well, golly gee, who are these embassy and police personnel? When one calls the embassy with a claim like this, a file number and contact name is given. When a police report is filed there is a name of a contact police officer given. Why weren't these people approached, or named? Serious allegations are made and yet, nothing substantive is offered. Where are the witnesses? If the victims were carried out of a bar in a state of stupor surely someone saw this? Did Mr. Drummond go and verify the allegations as best he could? Most investigative journalists do go out to the location and attempt to make an assessment and to find witnesses. Had Mr. Drummond stuck to the facts and just the facts, I wouldn't be thinking that what me have here is a possible "balloon boy" caper. Sadly, we live in a world where people will stop at nothing to perpetrate scams and shams. It is incumbent upon journalists to treat allegations of rape in a non sensationalistic manner so that actual rape victims do not have to deal with suspicions raised by bogus claims.

Capiche?

I did my advanced studies not in a pub and thus might be able to put your sophomoric spasms into perspective. You have zero credibility in defending your unfounded skepticism. By now substantial additional information has been posted on this and other outlets. Thus, your statements (that's perhaps too positive) do not add anything to the subject matter but only obscure. Why dont you stop spamming the thread and acknowledge that witnesses, Mr. Drummond and a colleague of his, have confirmed parts of the account? Why dont you praise them for the assistance rendered to the victims and their protecting the victims' privacy by not dragging them unnecessarily into the public? Why dont you acknowledge that appropriate papers have been filed or are in the process of being file in Thailand and in the UK?

You are void of first hand information, additional knowledge, first hand experience with such cases, apparently also a lack of legal information. So, please, stop this spamming, you made your point, it is invalid at best. As stated somewhere else, people should also be very careful about accusing crime victims of committing a crime in their own turn by filing false police reports. I think such accusations anyhow violate forum rules and belong to the trash bin or in the hands of a competent lawyer.

having seen dozens (or hundreds over the years?) of dead farangs exposed on TV, being killed in a crash, died from suicides in the broadest sense of the word, etc etc.

having seen criminals or suspects or drunk tourists paraded in front of a camera (incidentally more than once the policeman was/is running the tv channel) and so on

the silence about the rape case has a lot to do with an established record and nothing with a concern for the victim and her wishes.

to make such a statement i can only wonder how this person, not a trained journalist and like many others in pattaya assuming a false identity, can come to the mistaken belief that people with a minimal education could be impressed in any way by his blunder.

If memory serves, the father was shouting about it for all to hear round the world. As was the mother back in the UK.

As the Pattaya Mail story will point out, the rape victim's request was honored as the inicdent is both damaging to Pattya's image and embarassing to the police, as it happend so close to the Tourist Police box on Walking Street.

BTW, the Mail is the best of the papers if for any other reason than they don't run photos of blood and dead bodies. ANd no "death and destruction" on the front page.

Shame about its website, though.

At the risk of subverting this thread, may I ask exactly how far from the Tourist Police Assistants' campervan this happened on Walking Street? And where were they when this went down - recharging their pacemakers?

If you mean the Tourist Police Mobile Unit, we dealt with no cases of sexual assault of any kind last week. I would say that the statement that "the incident happened close to the Tourist Police Mobile Unit" is a bit misleading - was she assaulted in the street? I doubt it very much. Was she taken up one of the side roads (soi 14 or 15) and taken to a secluded area and assaulted? A little more possible but surely her screams would have alerted someone. Was she taken to a hotel room or a private room close to the Mobile Unit and assaulted? The most plausable theory. Also, what time did the assault take place as we are gone by 2.30am?

Without more details on this case, it is hard for me to comment more, Apparently Mr. Drummond worked off a Police Report which was made on the case. I would like to see this report before commenting further.

is this statement made in official quality, and does it include the expression "rape" thereby questioning the credibility of the victim?

I have just found out the arrest of the two men happened on 12th November and the woman was adamant that she did not want a fuss over the story. She wanted to return to UK as quickly as possible. She is now in UK and with no one willing to proceed with the case, the two men will likely be released with no charge. Apparently the alleged rape occurred somewhere on Walking Street. Talking with Mr. Drummond I have found out that he received the report from a local Thai Reporter who seems to have kept it quiet from other local Thai Reporters. Also the officer in charge of the case tried to keep it quiet because he thought the story would cause Pattaya a lot of harm. The UK Foreign Office were also not informed of the case. I understand the woman left for the UK very quickly after the "rape" took place.

So thats that really....case closed.

you wish

no better confirmation of all the talk about you, your policing, ethics, and your products

No visa runs go to Poipet from Pattaya. They all go to the Pha Khat/Pailin border post in minivans. What's the point of travelling further when you can go to the nearest place for 1,800 all inclusive.

It amazes me what people will do to try to save a few baht (and a page in the passport). Get a bigger passport and do it the easy way.

an uncrowded large bus is often more comfortable than a small cramped van

imho

just take the Mukdahan bus in the morning, get off at Aran, take a motorbike or a share a trycicle to the border market, walk over, then back, take the bus to kabinburi, switch to chonburi, rayong buses at Kabinburi.

OR

take the early bus to trang, take a van to the border and go back like you came. Faster service at the border in Hat lek and no attempt to charge the 100 Baht scam fee when i did that run. Last direct bus to pattaya around 3 PM after that it's switching in Chantaburi.

The individual tour has the advantage that you can eat what and where you like, pick your on buses, save the all-important passport page (once you calculate the value of 4-5 Cambodian entries on 1 page as opposed 5-6 pages used up, it matters).

Reading the online news I realized that my list of concerns is badly drafted and incomplete.

This is a new low. I followed the rise violent crime directed against foreigners of the past three years. The bad snatching from drive by motorbikes, the beating up of bar/go-go patrons by 'security', the rise of the street gangs extending their 'territories' towards the more proper areas, crimes committed by the various classes of police 'assistants' (these volunteer units seem to attract a good chunk of local scum), pedophiles in local humanitarian association targeting young boys, and NOW we are at

kidnapping of tourist girls, rape, robbery, etc.

Pattaya is not a place for a family. Now this happened close to a police post, it means that we should not image that policing increases security and therefore impacts the house/condo prices.

Does anyone have data on break ins? I see a lot of coverage of break-ins in houses, outside AND inside gated communities. Sometimes these breaks turn into deadly attacks.

As for the BKK condo. It sounds very nice but I dont think the BKK situation should be compared with Pattaya. It is a whole different ball game there. BKK real estate has a value based on the economy, Pattaya real estate is based on the urges of the liver or other parts (mostly of the male body). They are entertainment expenses not investments or necessary accommodation near the workplace.

British woman raped in Thailand after two men dragged her off the street

UK DAILY MAIL

By ANDREW DRUMMOND

Last updated at 8:27 PM on 16th November 2009

Pattaya in Thailand, where the incident took place

A British tourist in Thailand had been raped after being dragged off the street by two men.

She was taken to a hotel where she was raped and then robbed of her belongings.

The woman, aged 25, said the attack happened early Saturday morning in the Thai resort of Pattaya, twenty metres from a police sentry box.

The attack happened after she had been separated from friends.

She said she was unable to resist the two men who, after raping her, took her Natwest bank and credit cards and 60 pounds in cash and a bracelet worth 100 pounds.

Last night police in Pattaya charged two men with rape and theft.

They were named as Krajon Senkam, 29, and Surasak Kovekasan, 20, who were described as local 'maeng da' a Thai expression , literally translating as cockroaches, describing men who live off the earnings of local prostitutes.

Police Colonel Wanlop Kangtharatit said the men were arrested quickly as they were known in the area.

Just from the local press:

Two teenage suspected drug dealers have been shot dead in a drug related feud on Soi Million Year Stone, Pattaya. The two victims were taken to the hospital where they were later pronounced dead.

Pattaya, the 14th of November 2009 [PDN]: At around 5:00am on the 14th police Lieutenant General Jirasek Aebfeng (investigator with the Pattaya Police), received a report that two men had been shot and severely injured in Soi Million Year Stone, Pattaya. The two victims had been delivered to Banglamung Hospital as they were both still alive at the scene. Due to the accuracy of the gunners, both men died a short time later from direct hits sustained to the heart.

Police General Somneuk Jantket, Police General Nit Witthinanthakid and a volunteer officer went to investigate the scene further. Whilst investigating the scene police successfully found the two 11mm shell casings used in the shooting, several meters from the large pool of blood where the victims bodies must have fallen.

This gives me bad vibes. I lived in some major midwest city and drive-by shootings were not too far away. Seems that Cleveland, Detroit, parts of Chicago conditions are now becoming the real face of Pattaya.

I like Rayong and the fresh wind there. The bad thing is, of course, that there is a refinery as well not too far off.

What would be the best location to avoid that pollution? I have lost family and friends to cancer, some working in the industry, so no need to come close to such places.

Generally, I agree, rent is the way to go as I do now. Alone the comforting feeling that I can pack up whenever I want and I m not stuck, is worth a lot.

I admit my original mail was a little provocative and deliberately so.

When I m in Pattaya I m amazed at the number of western guys, who hang out there and I really dont want to meet. I m not talking of the sex tourists. They are harmless and mostly well tempered people, maybe some British skin heads are not. Those with the tattoos and without clothing from the waist up.

My concerns is the substantial community of western criminals hiding in the place. They focus on other westerners as they prime prey. Think of the good investment opportunities that you can easily come across just by sitting in any British owned bar with an average expat clientele.

This holds true also part of the real estate market. Overpriced offers, fishy contracts, attempts to have hidden, un-recorded payments off-shore (yes, you save taxes and get an extra discount....).

But let's assume all goes well; the condo is really built, none of those sqms you paid for has disappeared during construction, the management is not corrupt and run by some well-connected thai, the sinking fund has not disappeared, no Thai hookers stay next door with their newly found love, there is no new construction right next door (accidentally starting once the units were sold out (49%) in your place. You're are also lucky that the newly gone up building is not 5 meters from your window and your not looking at a grey concrete wall. No construction noise 24/7, no dust etc.

In short: Let's assume you bought something and it is like, say, Britain, Austria, Italy, the US, etc. and NOT like in Pattaya. I know it is a dream, but hey this is the internet and lets dream for a moment.

Does anyone think that prices per sqm beating those of BKK is a good investment? In BKK people work and need a place. In Pattaya they come and only stay as long as they want. So many rent and will be cautious to risk major dollars while facing conditions as sketched above.

Now people talk of Pattaya as a family resort. Reading the local papers, doing a web search shows that it is crime central. Plus: Why go to Pattaya with your family if you can get better beaches, hotels etc at lower prices elsewhere (nearby). Of course you also have the piece of mind that the chances are much lower that your daughter gets played with by some drunk guys when she buys an ice cream at 7/11.

In other words, does anybody seriously invest into condos while intending/hoping/dreaming of to sell to a farang family who would buy a holiday residence like maybe in Spain or Florida?

I strongly suspect that the condo market aims almost exclusively at customers that want to live in a place with cheap commercial sex around the corner and stay for themselves. In other words, a good deal of my invented ideal scenario is out of the window from the start.

So what would be the realistic price break the average farang, criminal or not, would pay for in Pattaya ? 500K to 1500K? Seaview welcome but not expected and paid for. These guys have perhaps little idea about bad construction (those holes in the wall, plastered over, just under the upper concrete beam) dont care about cheap furniture etc.

My suspicion/assumption is based on taking the time to listen to those time share people trying to sell hotel time for expensive money in Jomtien. The customers/potential buyers were 95% single males.

enough buses running the direct route. if you're really short, take 2nd class aircon. I like the 2nd class more than the 1st class as they dont have toilets. The regular pit stops are pretty clean and you dont have bad odor on the bus in case the "restroom" is badly serviced. Take a bottle of water with you and maybe some fruit. Dinner stop will be around Korat.

Nakon Panom buses will also gladly take you.

I think you can make it for 350 baht.

Some people praise Pattaya as being a family destination and a 5 star Asian resort city.

I m not quite sure about and during my last visit in Sept. I had some 2nd thoughts.

Today I read this:

MAN FOUND UNCONSCIOUS AND NAKED IN NAKLUA

On the morning of the 7th a Swedish man was found naked and asleep on the hood of a car off Pattaya Naklua Road, Pattaya. Local residents alerted the police and the man was subsequently taken to the station for questioning.

I m convinced news like this, and here we dont talk about violent crime, scams etc, do have an impact on any property in the area. Secondly, while my degree is not in education I still have reservations accepting the idea that openly practiced prostitution is something western buyers would consider as being in the interest of their children.

Finally, has anyone data on the quality of the sand on the beach? I observed that like in the past the beach serves as a public toilet after dark. During the day kids are supposed to play in the dirt? Or tourist sit on top of it?

I dont think so.

On the financial side. I do believe that the baht is heavily overvalued and buying at this time is a sure way to through away money just based on the exchange rate.

Take the bus to That Panom. They have a daily service. 1st class for sure, not so sure about VIP. The bus stops right in front of the temple near the Mekong.

If the bus is full try the one to Renu Nakon.

ex gf got regularly invite to a police station in chonburi province, she had a share in a pub. she solved the problem discretely each time

uncle of acquaintance lost his life in front of his hotel in CM, a bullet got him. was a problem among local chinese business dispute.

Isaan, Phuket etc is not much better, maybe worse. Isaan is surely less well reported.

Thailand is not a place to keep or show money.

You never know who is after you, the once with or without uniform.

How can a customer be sure that the furniture is free of termites? I would hate to bring those into my place.

I got some very nice and very cheap coffee in Laos. It is like going on a pilgrimage for me. In Mae Salong now one of the tea growers has converted some land into a coffee plantation. The product was ok but not outstanding.

Would it be possible to get a map showing the coffee shop mentioned by the OP for out of town people. Plus some info on good outlets. Like some other poster I would prefer coffee "cdo" like it is with Italian Olive oil or wine. I know the area produces some fine beans and I would not mind to make sure that I buy from them when I stock pile supplies. In other parts of Thailand the supermarkets have almost no choice if one wants to purchase 100% Arabica coffee (non-blended).

So maybe more people like me have no problems to spend 1-2 K on a good supply that will last for some time until the next visit. The shopkeeper or cooperative will certainly be happy about the extra business.

Seems that thel BMs get stuck on Walking Street and never make it beyond. Here is the secret:

The Chinese are bused to Bali Hai and then shipped to those swimming restaurants. After that a walk on Walking street or direct into the bus and off they go. You do not want to walk on the pier when the migration happens. My Thai exgf, herself Chinese, was not pleased to say the least. We talk of at least 10 buses at a time, more like 20 on average, you do the math.

The Chinese tour groups will not spend like Koreans or Japanese. It has to be cheap for sure.

I guess I won the cup.

is this really a surprise? i think not

well at least the real estate business isn't the only thing on "its knees" in phuket......

Developers by the dozen

Ms McDonnell, from Phuket Andaman Real Estate, said the world-wide financial problems, Thailand´s political troubles and the drop in tourist numbers had brought the local real estate industry to its knees.

http://www.property-report.com/property-ne...amp;date=200409

Ms McDonnell on her knees and trying to sell a condo. Surely an incentive. Those real estate people guys go the extra mile. Having said that, under such circumstances Raimon Land, im mean the CEO, would be selling his incentives in boyz's town?

Sorry, couldn't resist

We all know about the mayor's family, like the longterm of daddy following some local problems, his brother being a Taksin favorite and banned from politics, the sister and her efforts.

So yes, jingthing is right about the loyalties of the mayor. The young man was apparently the only one in the family without a record.

Abbisith was stupid to go for pattaya, but then, maybe, our dear chinese leader desperately wanted to get to the LB bars on walking street. What could Abisith possibly do in such a case? We all know about Pattaya's international image as a five star destination for .....

I m reading this threat daily with great interest. It is a warning to all of us. Luckily I never dealt with a person like that Scott or whoever he is. Reading several boards I m under the impression that the story is exclusively spread here. You might like to sum up the info you have from here (as far as you think it is in your interest) and starts threads in other places as well. Reading this thread, it seems that new info popped up. Maybe other places will generate the same results. Transparency seems to be a powerful weapon and tool. Some places are a bit, let's say, directer (?) about Pattaya and that clientel might be perhaps more the target market for that Scott.

Secondly, reading about that unfortunate and almost deadly motorbike crash. I fully understand that nobody establishes a link between the person this thread is about and that crash. Likewise, as a general observation without any attribution: Could be that a second crash with then terminal outcome could bring court proceedings to an end in Thailand? In other words, the cremation of the plaintiff solves the problem? We all have read about Thai ladies securing property with minimal financial outlay and deadly consequences for a male visitor to thailand. Now, I can imagine that a person that stands to risk tens of millions of thai baht in a court case might not shy away from a modest investment of 50-100K to solve his issues.

A good counter strategy could be, if possible, that all damaged parties join the law suit and sign up on it. This way a onetime expense wont solve the problem and the original plaintiff in such a case would enjoy some more safety. Until then I would not only be careful and avoid motorbike rides but also use light proof curtains in your house at night and not go out alone or just with your gf etc.

Thirdly, perhaps a talk with the British consulate might be of help. Again, i do not know, but EU or British law might apply and having things of file with the home country's officials could serve as a deterrent. A lawyer in the place of origin could perhaps also locate non-acknowledged funds or come across more dirt. Perhaps some people over there wonder where this Scott is? A friendly hint would make travel to the UK undesirable in such circumstances. Are there any past convictions? This info would damage the defendant's credibility.

I dont understand why the circles behind that project are having their venture protected here on the forum. It makes no sense. Given that they go for the really rich, well-established, short, those who dont care about a million US people, why continue to discuss it here? I suppose we board members all do not fall into that above mentioned category. I admit, I m not the person to risk 1 Million US on such a venture (if I had that kind of money in my hotel safe).

In other words, it is a bit strange... Perhaps they try to score with another clientel as well. Flippers or the odd newbie? Real Five Star developments focus on their exclusive customer base and dont have strange figures spending their time online. It smells pretty bad....

They do not ask for ticket at Aranyaprathet border, I have crossed this border hundreds of times, and the last one was yesterday. However if they would, then they will warn you before leaving the country, and usually a train ticket is sufficient.

Bishop

Great thanks. I had presented my tickets in Trat and Sisaket border checkpoints. Aran had a sign posted when I left through there.

You posted a lot on the Kanchanaburi border crossings. Never returned through there but went on further to Pailin etc. They had that bus ticket scam going on. Is that still active? (I assume you're there regularly.)

They normally don't ask for tickets out at border checkpoints

In reality it is only the airlines that inforce the ticket rule for airport entries which are 30 days.

Yes, but the Thai checkpoints on the Cambodian border have or had different policy.

I was asked for onward airtickets when I did runs at the Trat and Aran checkpoints earlier this year. This was never the case at Burmese or Laotian check points. So my questions is, if anyone has done the run since the new rule came into effect. And: Did they ask for a ticket.

With the new 15 day rule, do they still ask for an airline ticket out of thailand within that 15 day period (as they did before with the 30 day period)?

if u need just a 15 days stamp, take the bus to Tak (1 hr), hop on the next bus or van to Mae Sot, tuktuk to the bridge walk over to Burma, get your stamp. 500 baht on the Burmese side. That should be the easiest. The trip to tak is very smooth, the Mae Sot route scenic.

One of the project's undeniable achievement is the increase in TV board members. Seems that the developers have their cousins, business partners (and perhaps the local 7/11 franchise owner ...) signing up here to offer info on this unique investment. Look at the number of posts and dates and that's all we need to know.