TCA

Thanks. Good to know.

I'm hoping we can get through the UK citizenship and UK passport applications without the need for a new Thai passport at all.

Far easier to renew on the next visit to Thailand and no issues entering Thailand on an expired passport. Even at that, with a UK passport there wouldn't be any rush to get a new Thai one.

Just bumping this thread in case anyone has any pointers.

As far as I know in the UK, a Thai passport can only be renewed in person in London. The fact that we're in Scotland (and probably don't have all the necessary paperwork here, like Thai house book), would mean it would almost be easier to go to Thailand and renew it. I'd prefer to do neither right at this time if I don't have to. That's why I'm asking the question.

My wife and stepdaughter (under 16) both have ILR in the UK and we're now looking at applying for UK citizenship and subsequently UK passports for them.

Depending on when we start the citizenship application process (and given it can apparently take up to 6 months), my step-daughter's Thai passport may expire before the 6 months has elapsed.

Is this an issue for the citizenship application or does the foreign passport just have to be valid at the time of application? Likewise would it be an issue when subsequently applying for her first UK passport?

Struggling to find anything on this, so thanks in advance for any pointers.

12 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

Shouldn't but were.

And as stated, didn't require them, so were asked unnecessarily. That plus a lengthy questioning session shouldn't have to be endured given all the hoops already jumped through to reach ILR. As the other posters said above, just unlucky on the day with that particular official.

5 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

But people should always be prepared, carry a bit of backup docos. Better than getting rejected for entry after a long flight!

That's advisable (and we did so) when under visa restrictions, but with all due respect, it's a nonsense when someone has indefinite leave to remain. Document proof time is over and obviously they were allowed entry without them, so shouldn't be asked for them.

My wife and stepdaughter just returned to the UK from a 3 week trip to see their family in Thailand, having been granted indefinite leave to remain in the UK last year. Can someone please confirm which documents they are required to present at UK immigration on re-entering the UK?

I was under the impression that a valid passport and BRP were sufficient. My wife was subjected to 20 minutes of the third degree on everything from her marital status to her employment. She was also asked for her expired Thai passport because it contained her initial entry clearance visa, asked for her marriage certificate and whether she had her previous BRP (possibly a trick question given handed back) - she had none of these because I presumed they would be unnecessary.

My stepdaughter was also heavily questioned and asked to sign her name in Thai. The immigration officer also had an issue because she didn't look the photo in her 4 year old passport. OK, she had a different hair style but she's 14 for goodness sake, she's going to change facially. The BRP contains a photo less than a year old. They were eventually permitted entry after the officer went to the office to check something.

They will apply for UK citizenship and UK passports sooner rather than later, but until then and for future reference, I'd like to know whether they just got unlucky with an uninformed immigration officer or whether they do actually need to carry these extra documents with them.

Thanks in advance for any pointers.

Off the top of my head, on the question of how long living together, are you sure you haven't already answered that question in previous applications? If so, best to be consistent and just add on the additional 2.5 years or whatever, to what you said last time.

Re the bank statements - try a different branch for stamping or try asking the head office if they'll post out statements, which should be (but best to check) official headed originals.

45 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

The reasons to return is a real tough one......

Without knowing specifics, it shouldn't be any tougher than any other tourist visa application, but if the person can show no ties to Thailand then it doesn't leave many options.

Just to be clear as you mentioned marriage visit visa in the topic subject but not in the post:

1) A marriage visit visa is required for someone wishing to get married in the UK. It can't be changed into a settlement visa in the UK and the holder must leave the UK before it expires.

2) A fiance/fiancee visa is a UK settlement visa. It's valid for 6 months during which marriage must take place, otherwise the holder has to leave the UK. Once the marriage has taken place, the holder applies for further leave to remain. This adds an extra layer of application and expense.

3) A standard visitor visa is valid for up to 6 months. The holder cannot marry or register a civil partnership nor give notice of marriage or civil partnership, but can convert a civil partnership into a marriage:

https://www.gov.uk/standard-visitor-visa

If it was me I wouldn't be taking on the hassle and expense of a settlement visa if the intention is just to test the water. Far easier to go for another visit visa and address the reasons why it was refused before.   

1 hour ago, Duffill01 said:

Fortunately, my wife has received confirmation from NARIC that her degree is equivalent to a undergraduate degree here. We are both hoping that this means she will not have to take the Knowledge of England test.

On 8/28/2018 at 7:45 AM, 7by7 said:

 Knowledge of English 

This will satisfy the language requirement for all stages; initial visa, FLR, ILR and naturalisation. Though for ILR and naturalisation one will still have had to pass the LitUK test, no matter how one satisfied the language requirement.

I presume you're talking about a settlement visa but first point to note is that you mentioned "or be able to spend part of each year living together in the UK". If your partner gets a settlement visa, then by definition she has to be settled in the UK, so obviously can't use it like a tourist visa.

That aside, regarding your relationship status when applying, theoretically it shouldn't matter, but I think it's safe to say if you were married then you don't have such a burden of proof with regard to proving (I think the term is) "a genuine and subsisting relationship".

I'm unsure as to whether being engaged to be married makes much difference, but if you apply for settlement as an engaged couple (with a view to marrying in the UK within 6 months), you then have to apply again for further leave to remain, which means an additional application you wouldn't have to make if married or just partners, so adds another layer of cost and hassle. Something to bear in mind.

With respect to the time you have and haven't spent together, this is potentially more of an issue if you're not married. And this again goes back to what you can prove in terms of a genuine relationship. If you were married, the time factor is not an issue (in my opinion). I myself was married in Thailand a matter of weeks before the settlement application went in, but having said that I included as much proof as I could in terms of the relationship anyway. I was living in Thailand at that point and had been for just over 6 years. 

Hope some of that helps. Bear in mind the above is just my take on it from applying in 2013.       

21 hours ago, MUSTYJACK said:

When we approached our MP with this problem, he at first thought we had misunderstood the regulations. He couldn't believe that a British citizen could be made to undertake a journey of 14000 miles merely in order to renew the passport that she already possessed and was legally entitled to.

It's a ridiculous scenario. You have my sympathies. If my wife gets ILR and citizenship, we'll have the situation that if she wishes a UK passport in her married name (mine), she'll have to change her name in Thailand too, as everything so far (passport and settlement visas) are in her Thai name. 

Out of interest, given you had to make the trip to Thailand anyway because of this stupid rule, could you have achieved the same result by "getting married" at an amphur then doing the i.d card and other required changes to get the new passport?

Thereby cutting out the legalisation by the UK government, subsequent translation and sending to the Thai embassy and saving 3 weeks? 

1. You'll find GEN.3.2 of Appendix FM in the General section below:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration-rules/immigration-rules-appendix-fm-family-members

2. Yes, but of course it's a UK settlement visa so time spent outside the UK within reason is fine.

3. It's because you fall into the GEN.3.2 category of Appendix FM

4. She has to apply. 

A few more points I'd welcome some clarification on from anybody in the know:

1) Supporting letter from spouse - is it worth including something at this ILR stage? There's very little needs explaining or expanded upon compared to previous applications, so it would only be waffle largely in respect of how well the stepdaughter has settled. Worth sticking a page in or superfluous to the application?

2) Spouse passport - plenty is mentioned about sending copies of every page, including blank ones. Can I presume that's unnecessary if I choose to send my actual passport and just include copies of the important pages (as requested for the applicants themselves)?

3) Application form - I seem to recall I included a copy of the form at FLR stage for some reason. Any reason to do so or not required?  

Everything else I think is fine. There doesn't appear to be any requirement to include marriage certificates and translations, unless the applicant married after their last visa was granted in this category. Not the case for us. Plus no supporting documents are required regarding the property (e.g. title deeds, tenancy agreement etc..), just the proof of address/cohabiting evidence. So the files will be pretty light this time round. 

Thanks in advance for any tips on the above.

You'll find the replies given by 7by7 in the thread below useful:

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1036629-calculating-time-away-whilst-on-a-settlement-visa/

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

I think you are overthinking this.

 

Obviously, some of these may very well also be used as evidence in other parts; in which case you should cross reference.

Thanks 7by7. I'm definitely overthinking it but it helps to hear I've covered all bases nonetheless.

The "overlapping" of their categorisation causes some confusion, especially at the checklist where you have to list the number of documents included for each section.  

The note 8 examples you mentioned (re my point 8 - Evidence of continuous residence in the UK) I would have included everything in this respect against 5) Correspondence to you and your partner. I think what I'll do is include the minimum number of documents to meet the requirement for 5) and put the remainder against 8). Just so I've got something in both boxes. 

I'm starting the ILR application for my wife and stepdaughter and relatively happy with the form on first run through. Where it gets a bit ambiguous (yes I know, what's new) is with some of the supporting documents requested for the child application, so I'd appreciate any guidance or feedback from anyone who's been through this bit.

Apologies for the lengthy post and if this seems like nit picking. It is, but I want to cover all bases. OK, here's the form below:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/696462/set_m_-form-04-18.pdf

It's Section 12 Documents I'm looking at, page 49, half way down, Children Section and 4 parts in particular (my numbering). Where I'm at is written in red type below each section:

1) Evidence of where your child/children normally lives and that you and/or your partner play an active role in their upbringing. This evidence should be dated within the last three months and can include: -
• Official correspondence addressed to the child/children;
• Doctor’s/hospital letters on official headed paper stating the child’s/children’s registered address;
• School/nursery letter(s) on headed paper stating the child’s/children’s registered address.

I've managed to get 3 recent headed letters from my stepdaughter's school, dentist and orthodontist which I think are sufficient to meet the requirements. I may or may not request an additional letter from the doctors, which could cost me up to £40 for the privilege. I do have an immunisation paper (addressed to parent/carer) which came from the school with my stepdaughter's name and our address on it (less than 3 months old) but nothing to say where or whom it came from.

2) Evidence of your and/or any partner’s parental responsibility for the child/children.

I have school reports (to parent/carer not with my name), endless school emails (general to parent/carer and to me directly) and dentist reminder emails - none of these contain our address. Plus school placement correspondence with the council (addressed to me at our address) and a gymnastics club membership (which is addressed to my stepdaughter and does contain our address).

The only other stuff I have of an official nature mentioning my stepdaughter is child tax credits correspondence and although that could be included, I'm loathe to do so on the off-chance that I get an immigration official who isn't great with the rules on recourse to public funds.

3) Evidence of where you and/or any partner lives, as the parent of the child/children.

Presumably this is covered by the documents required for cohabitation section on page 51?

4) Evidence of anything else you would like us to consider regarding your child’s life, both in the UK and outside the UK

Can't think of anything for this.

So given the above, fast forward to the documents checklist on the last page, p.59, and we get these categories below, again my numbering and my thinking in red type:

5) Correspondence to you and your partner - the cohabitation joint letters, no problem

6) Evidence of where you and your child normally live - covered by 1, some of 2 and 5?

7) Documents showing that you have sole responsibility or the child normally lives with you - covered by 2?

8) Evidence of continuous residence in the UK - this probably applies to both mother and daughter but I have no idea what I'm expected to include here given anything we have falls into other categories.

Any comments on the above as to whether I'm misinterpreting stuff or lacking any documents? Any further suggestions for documents to include, particularly for 4 and 8 above? 

Any and all contributions much appreciated.

On 24/04/2018 at 8:14 AM, 7by7 said:

Your choice, but I would not risk a refusal such as the OP's wife's merely for the sake of applying 28 days earlier than this.

A quick follow up on the above now I've started ploughing through the SET M form and guidance notes. Section 5 in the guidance notes "When To Apply" states:

"You and any children under 18 who are applying with you should apply before the end of your/their permitted stay in the UK when you are nearing completion of the qualifying period required by the Immigration Rules. Please do not apply more than 28 days before completing that period. If you apply earlier than that, your application may be refused. If that happens, we will not refund the fee and you will have to pay again when reapplying."

That seems to be a nod to the 28-day rule, but having seen that, I (my wife) still won't be applying until the 5 year anniversary of UK entry. There are bits in the form where the applicant has to state how long they've lived in the UK and sticking in 4 years 11 months might complicate things unnecessarily and maybe lead to the application getting parked for a month. We won't risk it.     

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/633927/SET_M__Guidane_Notes_08-2017.pdf

For info, there's a newer version of SET M since I last looked, dated April 2018:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/696462/set_m_-form-04-18.pdf

16 hours ago, 7by7 said:

It wont be an issue; there is no minimum UK residency period for child registration under section 3(1). No LitUK test or English languge requiement either.

Thanks for confirming 7by7.

16 hours ago, 7by7 said:

As your wife presumably has sole responsibility, or the girls father is dead, only the mother counts.

 

Mother and child should apply together then, unless there are highly unusual circumstances, like my wife and step daughter, and all other similar cases of which I am aware over the last 18 years, if the mother's application succeeds then the daughter's will as well.

Thank you 7by7. The father went AWOL shortly after my stepdaughter was born (whereabouts still unknown), so all UK visa applications to date have included my wife has having sole responsibility.

Thanks for the heads-up on the category for application. Both applications will be made at the same time. The child won't have been in the UK for 3 years at that stage but presumably that isn't an issue given the discretionary nature in which citizenship would be granted. I'll double-check though.    

19 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Indeed; as you say one of the requirements for naturalisation by the spouse or civil partner of a British citizen is that the applicant was both physically and legally present in the UK on the exact date three years prior to applying.

We'll just have to play the above by ear and see when (hopefully) ILR is granted. I had a quick look at form MN1 and the guidelines document for child citizenship applications and it looks a potential minefield. Didn't look very user-friendly for the case of a stepdaughter not born in the UK, but I'll cross that bridge (/mountain) when I come to it. 

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

As you can see, family members applying under appendix FM, such as your wife, are NOT on that list.

 

Your choice, but I would not risk a refusal such as the OP's wife's merely for the sake of applying 28 days earlier than this.

Thanks 7by7. I completely glossed over the applicable categories for the document. In light of no concrete evidence for the "28 days before" rule, we might as well wait until the 5 year anniversary of UK entry.

I was putting the cart before the horse and thinking ahead to the UK citizenship application my wife will make, which for some odd reason requires the applicant to have been physically present in the UK on the date exactly 3 years before the Home Office receives the application. That could be an issue depending on how long the settlement visa application takes, but things will take however long they they'll take, so I'll revert to one step at a time.

On 22/04/2018 at 10:59 AM, 7by7 said:

 Members may find the Home Office guidance to staff Indefinite leave to remain: calculating continuous period in UK interesting.

My wife's ILR application is due soon and I stumbled across the document linked above by 7by7 when searching for official confirmation of the ability to apply for ILR 28 days before the end of the continuous period.

What I didn't know (and I think it says) is that you can include the period between the initial entry visa being granted and the actual entry date to the UK.

From p.8 of the document:

Period between the issue of entry clearance and entering the UK

The period between entry clearance being issued and the applicant entering the UK may be counted toward the qualifying period. Any absences between the date of issue and entry to the UK are considered an allowable absence. This period will count towards the 180 days allowable absence in the continuous 12 month period. The applicant does not need to provide evidence to demonstrate the reason for delayed entry. If the delay is more than 180 days, you can only include time after the applicant entered the UK in the continuous period calculation.

And the bit I was looking for from p.9 of the document:

Calculating the specified continuous period

Applicants can submit a settlement application up to 28 days before they would reach the end of the specified period. You must calculate the relevant qualifying period by counting backward from whichever of the following is most beneficial to the applicant:
• the date of application
• the date of decision
• any date up to 28 days after the date of application

My wife's entry clearance visa was issued on 28/5/13 and she entered the UK on 12/6/13. I was going with the entry date + 5 years = 12/6/18 - 28 days = 15/5/18 as the earliest date to apply.

On reading the above I reckon she could actually apply on 30/4/18! Anyone care to give a view on the above or anyone actually submitted an ILR application on the shorter timeline? I'm very wary given the OP's experience but would gladly get this application out the way sooner rather than later.