typist

some good ideas here from phi phi.

Yet, as an owner, I am doing ok without agents.

I bought a condo in Bangkok some years ago which has been rented out continuously since, at around 6-7% gross yield, which I consider good. I created a simple website for my property, which generates around 1-2 enquiries per week on it's own, with no further active advertising like google ads. Ads will of course dramatically boost the amount of leads.

I contacted all the big agencies and some smaller ones as well, none of the have ever done any useful work for me. I don't blame agents, they are not promoting one single property (mine), but many. I get far more leads from my own website than from agents, and on top of that many of the leads I got from agents were the "I'm just looking around"-type, and surprisingly enough, a lot of them did not even have the necessary budget.

I don't like to waste time so I filter and qualify the enquiries I get myself, and try to make sure that they have the necessary budget, and a keen interest in renting a property like mine, BEFORE I actually meet them and show them my place.

So here's my piece of advice regarding agents, If you're renting out - do whatever works for you. If agents are of any help to you, by all means, use them, but I wouldn't rely solely on agents if you want to have a continuous, dependable income stream (and if you dislike wasting your time on people who are not serious prospects).

Any realisitic comparables in your building or your area that have sold within the last 6 months?  That would be a good starting point.

Yes, there have been 2nd hand sales of comparable units in the building, however it's not always easy to determine at which price they sold. I agree though, it's a good starting point. from what I've seen, there haven't been any fire sales. most owners probably weren't leveraged, and none have been forced to sell, so I doubt there have been dramatic price reductions.

Someone mentioned a 30% drop in his home town. I'd assume that's mostly due to leverage; easy credit contributing to inflated property prices, which then collapseduring a crisis. Imho the property market in Bangkok is less vulnerable in that respect. Most banks here probably learnt the lesson during the Asia crisis.

Despite the so-called credit crisis, getting a reasonable conservative mortgage on a property in Bangkok (60%) seems to be quite straight forward, easier than a "quick sale". I suppose many buyers are hesitant now, and prefer to buy during an upturn.

Well I guess I have to try and see, but obviously I don't want to set a price which is too low, on the other hand I don't want to keep reducing the price every week either. The mortgage option seems to be relatively painless, so maybe it's better to wait and sell another time. Still, I'd appreciate if anyone here could share experiences regarding recent condo transactions.

I have an opportunity to buy the business one of my main competitors (thank god for the financial crisis). I almost have enough cash, though I could need a little extra, and external funding is hard to come by these days, so looking at my options, I am contemplating to sell a condo in central Bangkok. For this to make sense, the sale would need to be completed in 3 months (the other option is a mortgage on the condo, I am looking into that now).

I am currently leaning towards the mortgage option, as I am afraid 3 months is a short timeframe for a sale in the city of angels, my experience here is that things usually happen slowly. Anyone sold recently? How long did it take?

My rental yield on this one has been 6-7%, so a 10% purchase price reduction should push the rental yield closer to 7-8%. For a condo in central Bangkok which cost me roughly 10.5 million baht 2 years ago (5% below list price then), how much would I need to reduce the price for a quick sale? Thinking about it, I could probably live with a 10% loss provided I get the funds quickly enough, but is anyone buying? 

how long on average do your tenants stay...

and for how long on average does the place stay empty until a new tenant is found?

and lastly, what method do you use most to find tenants; real estate companies or advertise it yourself?

tenants stay 6-12 months.

0-1 months until I find a new tenant.

own website - real estate companies are utterly useless (I "listed" a condo with 10-15 agents 2 years ago, and I have never heard from a single agent. The condo has been occupied with tenants I found myself).

The "catch" is that if these foreign firms cease operations then they will be forced to sell their assets here. Big deal. Its better than a long lease in Vietnam or India's extremely questionable land titling system!

imho many prefer a long lease, rather than locking up assets, which should generate a much higher return when invested in core business. Of course, some may decide freehold in Thailand is better than a lease in Vietnam in their particular situation, but I don't see a very compelling argument for this in general (or am I missing something?)

Also, Vietnam has been easing restrictions on ownership for resident foreigners. I have no idea if this will extend to, or have any impact on, industrial property though.

I never understood the appeal of Sukhumvit the Naradthiwas, Charoenkrung, Sathorn area has much lighter traffic at the weekends and is just as accessible.

I never understood why anyone would want to live on Sukhumvit - imho it's nothing but a glorified tourist trap. Granted, there are some ok restaurants, but most are easily accessible by skytrain (or taxi, at night).

...

In fact online channels result in 10x as many genuine inquiries than newspaper advertising.

I'm sure that others are seeing similar results.

Same here - for lead generation, online media beat any other channel hands down.

@London: if you prefer developers who are using hardcopy letters for lead generation, you may wish to visit their construction sites. They're probably employing elephants, instead of heavy machinery.

If when a farang firsts buy's a condo, and the yearly

Maintenance fee's are shown, what's to stop the condo

Management from increasing the maintenance fees

On the next year to a vastly higher rate than shown

When the condo was purchased the year before..?

you should be concerned about the opposite - that it's too hard to raise maintenance fees to the level necessary to avoid deterioration of common areas...

maybe there's room for a separate DIY (sub)forum?

eg. How to build a cheap steam powered rat trap

 and make sure it is properly grounded.

Thailand - or Thaivisa - seems to attract a lot of DIY talent.

What range of prices should I expect to pay for legal services?

An international "brand name" legal firm (eg. Baker McKenzie etc) will charge you 3K$ for a simple transaction.

Less with local firms. The amount of hours needed (and billed) may vary, depending on the property and type of transaction.

Forget about the company route for a condo. There is no reason to do this, and compliance can be risky and costly. Freehold in your own name is easier to sell.

Imho your best option for financing is to look outside Thailand (eg. Bangkok Bank and UOB S'pore); they don't care about your visa.

I bought a room at Baan Sathorn Chao Phaya. It's a nightmare. The same owner is also selling a new project at Baan Rachprasong. Buyer beware.

I'd appreciate if you could tell us your experience?

I heard that some who bought off plan were unhappy (gym location, common rooms not as specified in plan), and I've also heard that some co-owners are suing the developer as they allegedly spent sinking fund money on day-to-day operations of the building, until co-owners got control of the juristic person.

To live in, I'd prefer to buy something I like - a place where I feel comfortable and at home - rather than worrying too much about resale value.

Personally I like the riverside area, particularly the Area from the Shangri-La to the Sheraton (or on the other side - from the Hilton downwards to Taksin Bridge, or even all the way down to the Marriott - I prefer staying closer to the Skytrain though). Easy access to Skytrain, CBD, river. Lots of Restaurants and Entertainment: all 5 star hotels in the immediate neighbourhood, and much more along Sathorn and Silom.

I agree - you can get good deals at slightly older buildings (even if not all the extra space can be put to good use, due to sometimes less functional layouts).

Another advantage of older buildings is that it's easier to judge what the management is like.

Then again - new buildings may be more hassle-free, at least there is no need to manage a renovation. I quite like the idea of living in one of these duplexes at the River - but I'm not going to buy anything off-plan now 

I would probably go back to the USA for awhile and hopefully they can rent it for me. Does this work OK here?

I wouldn't count on that. Agents and building management won't exactly go out of their way to find you a tenant. There are quite a few apartments available for rent currently.

If you want to rent out a place, do it yourself, or at least create leads yourself, and make sure someone (eg. a friend) follows up.

I had a place available for rent earlier this year, and invited a couple of agents to help (including bigger players like cbre, as well as small shops). Some took pictures, but never posted them anywhere, not even on their own website. I never heard back from any of them.

On the other hand: Within one week of advertising myself, I had two leads who were both willing to 

pay a competitive rent. Signed a contract - quick and painless.

Just out of curiosity, I spoke to one of the big agents to ask how they were doing:  they said they would need at least 3 more months. Judging by the ads which have been on their website for 1-2 years, 3 years is probably closer to reality. 

Relying on agents alone - without doing anything myself - would have cost me a six figure thb amount.

With the benefit of hindsight, next time I wont bother to contact agents.  Unless it's someone who has helped you before, or you already know they have someone who is desperate for your place, forget about agents.

what investments you would reccommend?

Domain names and/or developed web sites

cheers,

M

You really need to talk to them personally down there to find out the latest. .I'd be interested to know if anything has changed.

they still promote the loans on their website:

http://www.bbl.co.th/Bangkok+Bank/Personal...nts/default.htm

Same here - I'd be interested to know if anyone has spoken to them recently.

I've done this (websites, offshore).

As long as you are tax resident in the Netherlands an offshore company in a low tax jurisdiction controlled by you will most likely NOT be helpful. As soon as dutch authorities find out, they'll slap you with fines etc. Ask a dutch accountant about this - I am saying this based on taxation principles in other European countries.

my 2 cents: move away from the Netherlands, to a more favorable taxation regime (or none at all), THEN get an offshore structure.

HK and S'pore are heavily regulated, and may require a lot of compliance activities (accounting, auditing, returns, reporting...). Unless the reputation of a heavily regulated jurisdiction is very important for your business, I'd avoid both.

Panama is popular with people form civil law countries; people familiar with common law obviously prefer common law jurisdictions (BVI etc).

Currently i have a few websites that are starting to make some money.

As i am living (registered) in the Netherlands a large lump disappears to paying taxes.

As i have almost nothing to deduct this tax pressure is at the current rate 52%.

I am looking for possibilities to lower this tax rate by going offshore with some websites.

One website is growing from only the Netherlands to supporting Europe. This is a community style website where companies share their workforce and heavy equipment.

Two other websites source products in Thailand and sell worldwide.

Does anyone have experience setting up a company in Singapore or Hongkong? Or any other low tax area?

Are there common pittfals i should watch out for? Any recommendation of companies that offer services.

Or is it better to do things yourself (prefered).

I browsed through many websites of firms that oofer these services, but i am a little sceptical about their rices and quality.

I prefer more direct information from people who actually are doing this.

That depends on the location. Pataya, Phuket or Samui may be affected but negligibly in Bangkok.

Even if some areas are affected, people have a very short memory. Just like with the Tsunami; it doesn't take long until people forget their previously oh so scary fears. Yesterdays news won't scare anyone.

You know my friends and l were having this discussion the other day about the political situation, the instability of a miltary junta in charge must have an effect on the housing surely ?? l for one would not buy another house or invest money here until the next democratically appointed goverment is in place, but my friends disagree.

the instability of a military junta in charge

Withing a really short-term perspective, I see your point, but imho it's really the other way around: look at longer-term Thai history and you'll see that the only stable, predictable pattern is that there will be another coup. 

Just like Italy: in a short-term perspective the ever-changing coalitions and resulting Governments can seem like an unstable pattern. That's not how I see it - I think it's a predictable system, and imho a stable form of Government.

It's just a different system, resulting in a different type of stability.

With the goverment clamping down on foreigners owning houses via the ' Thai Company' route could we expect to see a drop in house prices over the coming months ??

I doubt you will see a price drop across the market. Maybe some buyers will be lucky and get a good

 deal on a particular unit, but not many owners are willing to sell high quality at rock bottom prices. I see few desperate sellers who are in a crunch - imho most investors in Thailand can afford to wait if the market isn't right at a particular time.

their big 6-star "the sails" hotel and condo project in jomtien beach, pattaya, has apparently gone tits-up recently.

interesting. any details?

I've been told that it is not usual to pay house and land tax in the case of privately rented (ie. not registered leases) properties.

1) If this is correct (?), I assume people don't usually file for personal income tax either?

2) What's the risk that the taxman will slap you? Has anyone ever heard about that happening?

3) If rental income tax is levied, would interest on a (thai mortgage) loan from BKK Bank S'pore be deductible?

assumptions:

Non Thai resident, with no other income in Thailand.

Condo in BKK rented out privately, no agent, long term, paid in THB to Thai Bank Account (tenant does not deduct witholding tax). Contractual lease for actual structure is one third of what tenant pays (furniture and services paid separately).

Thank you in advance for sharing your experience.

Supply glut starting to put pressure on prices

The central Bangkok property market is facing difficult times as supply outstrips demand that, making people think more carefully before deciding on purchases, says Ian Soo, the managing director of Hamptons property.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/Yourmoney/12Mar2007_money47.php

...

A good time to wait and see.

It's always a good time to wait and see.

Times of uncertainty are not particulalrly good to wait and see. Quite contrarily, imho, times of uncertainty can be a great chance: Buy when noone else buys, and sell when everyone else buys.

(easier said than done, I know )

110 sq.m., 2 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms.

State-of-the-art fittings, concealed air-conditioning, integrated appliances. Spectacular views from all rooms. Fully furnished, complete with cable TV, telephone and high-speed internet outlets in all rooms. 4 sliding doors create flexibility to cater to larger receptions, or allow for privacy for fewer guests. Resort pool, sauna, steam room, fitness centre.

At the doorstep of the central business district, yet a world apart from city noise and pollution. Next to public park. Unrivalled dining and entertainment options in the midst of Bangkok's most luxurious 5 star hotels.

5 minutes to Taksin BTS/Skytrain. Private Shuttle Boat. 2 indoor parking spaces, easy access to expressway. PM me for more pictures and detail specs

I have witnessing a new trend here in Bangkok especially by single Farang Guys who are nearly going broke. They suddenly come up with ideas or are advised by others to go into a web-based business and they then invest huge amounts of money or even borrow money from friends...amounts like Bt 30k to 120K to get somebody to do their websites,etc and then after a month or two, they desperately start seeking help as are broke or the money is not coming in.

Examples are: Online Travel Agencies, Online Dating, Online Trading especailly Thai products, etc

Please before spending you last dimes on a web-based project...do your market reseach properly and also understand that just a web-ste and also links with search engines are not enough. There is lots of competition these days days and also you need offline mainstream marketing, PR and promotional strategies to make your sites work along with unique Unique Selling Points,Products,etc.

Please don't go bust embarking on something you know little about.

this is hardly unique to the web...