Iambabababor

When someone dies it would appear that the entire village turn out to the "Party Pee" as they are known. This is the 2/3/4 day eat and drink pre-cremation marathon.

I haven't seen my wife this week. (Some may say this is a good thing!). 4 people have died within the past 7 days (none unexpected), and my wife and most of the village have gone to assist with food preparation and serving the food and drink, as well as making a cash donation to the family.

But strangely she only knew one of the deceased. It seems to be the rule that if you are friendly with or even only acquainted with, a member of the deceased's family - however remote, then you attend the party, and subsequently the cremation at the local WAT.

Many villagers returned from work in Bangkok for the first party and cremation, but have extended their stays to participate in the other parties, although, like my wife, having no personal contact with the deceased. Any excuse to avoid returning to work! They seem to care nothing for the loss of income, regardless of the fact that with the current economic problems many will have no work next year.

Whilst it is obviously part of Thai culture, it would seem to add unnecessary stress to the bereaved families. Doing away with the "Party Pee" or limiting it to just family and very close friends would surely be more sensible.

The word on the street is that the irish guy borowed sum money to finnish the pub, then absconded with it.

Put a smile on your face and refer to her as "Kon Thai". She'll get the point and prolly have a chuckle as well.

Why Kon Thai? She didn't refer to you as Kon Farang, just plain simple "farang". Why put her on a pedestal?

In similar situations I retaliate by referring to them as "Thai" or in some cases K'men" i.e "Pen arai K'men"

Works wonders!

I get into National Parks for the Thai price when I show a Thai Driving license, if the policy was racist my Thai driving license would mean nothing, I would still be white therefore I would be discriminated against because of the colour of my skin.

It isn't racist at all.

That is not always true. For me, with Thai Driver's, WP, Tax ID, and spoken Thai it runs about 50/50 at the National Parks.

Agree. The ticket seller sets the price, and usually will not refer the matter to his bosses. Some accept documentation others not!

Kind Sirs

Whether opening soon or not, please tell us where it is. Isan is big !

Even though he is now 39 years old he may come under the Thai Army conscription. Maybe he needs to investigate this possibility before becoming Thai

Because many kids do not go to school regulary.Up country schools seem to be very poor and no education means no brains.Manual work and unskilled work can give many families a decent income,but most of that goes on drink and ciggies.

Absolutely correct - but don't forget that the money also goes on the lottery, cards, debt repayment at 10% -20% a month and the unabated tambons and donations to the wat! No money left to kep the kids in school!

I have the usual assortment of birds in the garden and every morning I throw out the left-over rice for them plus any bread that may be left.

Recently we have had a woodpecker come to visit on a daily basis, but he/she does not eat the food thrown out.

There are also 2 pigeons that live in one of our coconut trees. Every morning between 7.30am and 8.00am they fight each other for about 10 minutes. Don't know what that's all about. Maybe one doesn't come home at night!

If the Thais whined more Thailand would not be a 3rd world country. Mustn't complain when things are wrong, greng jai; mai pen rai. What a load of <deleted>!

Head off to Tokyo old chap, plenty of Asian women and plenty of fun to be had, and you won't get charged more than the Locals.

Interested ?

My concern is for my fellow foreigners more than myself. I don't pay inflated prices. I negotiate a Thai price or generally walk away.

It is the principle of dual pricing that is unfair regardless of whom it is directed against.For a single visitor on a fortnights holiday, it is neither here nor there. But for those of us who live here permanently and have families, it is not only costly to have to continually pay more, but is humiliating to have a higher price demanded from us in front of our Thai families.

If all foreigners were to be banned from the country tomorrow, I doubt very much that entrance fees would increase. Indeed with the loss of foreign money, cheaper promotions for the locals could be expected.

If the Thais whined more Thailand would not be a 3rd world country. Mustn't complain when things are wrong, greng jai; mai pen rai. What a load of <deleted>!

I agree with forangs paying more for things like national parks night safari hotels

most Thais are very poor how else could a poor lad take his girlfriend to a park if he had to pay 200 baht instead of 20

Its more than fair or how else could the poor

vitis such places

You make a point. Most Thais are relatively poor, and those relatively poor souls generally do not visit the various entertainment amenities, and likely would not even if they were free. Most cannot scrape together the transportation cost, preferring to spend their money on lao Kao Thai whisky or the fortnightly underground lottery.

It's not just a case of why should foreigners be charged such excessive entrance fees, but where does this extra money go? Take the case of Ko Samet. Until a year or so ago, visitors entering from the ferry, were transported to their lodgings by a pick up taxi and stopped at the ticket office to pay the appropriate entrance fee. Now, the taxi sails straight through, and the driver collects the entrance fees (various amounts depending on age, colour nationality etc), and supposedly hands over this money to the park ticket office. But does he? The ticket collectors and the taxi drivers are all friends together and can be seen drinking and socialising after work. How much is kept by the taxi drivers? And how much is subsequently shared out between the collectors and the drivers? The extra money extorted from foreigners brings them no greater benefits. Just look at the beaches after a long holiday weekend when all the Thais have visited. They are filthy, and much manpower is needed to clean them up. Most foreigners show far more respect for cleanliness, using rubbish bins etc, yet their inflated entrance fees clearly go to cleaning up the Thai garbage!

Another poster has said he supports higher prices which are supported by Thai tax money. OK on face value. But the vast majority of Thais pay no income tax, the tax free allowance being greater than 12,000bt a month -way beyond what most Thais earn. So they pay VAT- an indirect tax, which probably amounts to just a few hundred a month. Foreigners spend on average 4000bt a day in Thailand and with 7% VAT thats 280bt a day going into the thai tax coffers, far more than the vast majority of Thais give, So once again why should foreigners pay more?

Foreigners are expolited. We are perceived to have money so we can pay more. Yes, generally we do have more money than the average Thai, but for us to visit Thailand we ned to work hard and save hard. Why should we subsidise the Thai people?

Foreigners are co-erced into coming to Thailand by the Tourist Association of Thailand with their Amazing Thailand advertisements. Nowhere are they told that they will be ripped off -have to pay more than the locals to see the advertised attractions, and yet receive no additional benefits for their inflated admissions.

The only thing Amazing is that the government permit this two-tier pricing!

Two -tier pricing is wrong and totally unjustified

I

just some thoughts....... maybe Im far off.

And maybe not. But don't expect the Police to even consider investigating this possibility. Unless of course the perpetrators who are known to the Police, are arrested and turn the tables on the wife. But if they have any sense they will no longer be in Thailand thanks to the ridiculous requirement to have an arrest warrant before being apprehended. Do Judges work on Sundays?

You think that Farangs come to Thailand to give money away expecting nothing in return ?

Tell me, have you ever been to Thailand ?

Of course they expect something in return, but many many pay a very high price for so little.

As for your final comment, what relevance does it have? Have I been to Thailand? Yes - been here full time for the past 25 years! In that time I have seen the changes that have taken place. The girls back then were not money grabbing madams as so many are today. Those farangs that were fortunate to have married back then were not walking ATM's for the mothers, brothers etc. Mothers didn't get "sick" back in those days - nor did the buffaloes! The girls were happy to be treated nicely by the farangs, and receive a fair payment for their services. Sadly now Greed has set in, and everything is just money money money!

MacB has sadly found this out the hard way. Now he must learn from others mistakes and his own preachings.

No need to give excuses for her. She is what she is. A fairly typical young girl from a village, willing to give her all to any local lad and now she is paying the price for it.

Sometimes on ThaiVisa I see weird ramblings from people who don't seem to have a clue, above is an example.

If anyone is rambling on - you are!

This is Thailand and the discussion is regarding a Thai girl who became pregnant from her boyfriend, and now has to live with the consequences.

Every country has the same problems with teenage pregnancies. I fail to understand why these lasses cannot use the pill when they want to play around. It's not as if they're walking into the unknown. All around them -in every village - there are kids born to young teenage mothers with no support from the father.

That said however, once pregnant, western governments fall over themselves to help out financially. Nobody helps here in Thailand. So they end up in Pattaya, bangkok or wherever looking for whatever freebies they can get from the farang!

QUOTE (libya 115 @ 2008-03-29 19:52:05)

SOURCE: Pattaya City News March 25th 2008

Finnish Man Murdered at Home.

Police are aware of the name of the alleged murderer, a 27-year-old originally from Nakhon Sawan, and her accomplice, and are waiting for an official arrest warrant to be issued before they search for the pair and take them into custody.

<deleted>!!!

"Hello there - we are policeman and we know you have committed murder, but we are waiting for an arrest warrant - so you have several hours to make your escape!"

No wonder crime is so high in Thailand -nobody ever gets arrested or punished!

All this info is good for readers embarking on relationships in LOS I hope.

Oh Oh Oh Mac!

For the past year you have been giving all and sundry good advice, yet you seem not to take it yourself. What on earth possessed you to take a young girl with a baby, just out of her teenage years, and from Pattaya too. Of course she wanted your money - or if not her, her family certainly did.

No need to give excuses for her. She is what she is. A fairly typical young girl from a village, willing to give her all to any local lad and now she is paying the price for it.

There are many 30-40 year olds in the villages, most never having been near a bar or massage parlour. One could be for you, but the moment you meet her, regardless of whatever you might think of the future, tell her bluntly what you expect from ANY future relationship. (ie no support of family friends etc etc). lay it on the line. Give her an modest allowance and it's hers to do what she wants with it - but that's all! She can consider it and take it or leave it. if she walks away, you are the winner!

What I think is funny is that the spirit of a dead woman has enough sense to walk around the village looking for a mate to take into the afterlife but can't tell the difference between a man and a scarecrow.

Some belief.

A scarecrow might be a better proposition than one of the many alcohol ridden, lazy village gambling men, with debts up to his eyeballs!

I am a non believer but respect everyones right to their beliefs.

It is my view that anyone who is not prepared to practice the edicts of their religion should not participate.

Quite apart from all the hookers, just look at all the politicians one sees on the TV. hands together as if in prayer, yet many are so corrupt and dishonest that they have no right pretending to believe.

Further what about all those drivers who having created an appalling accident with death and injury, flee the scene, and the very next day are in their saffron robes somewhere upcountry collecting alms.

Why would you assume I'm from the south?

Why is it so difficult for you to accept the way things are here. . Maybe I was wrong about you having a chip on your shoulder, you seem like a well balanced man having two chips...one on each shoulder after your recent divorce and all......I

[/quote

From your own profile.... Location: Phuket, Samui, Bkk, N.Y that's why!

I accept the ways some things are - I don't necessarily like them. But since I am never directly involved it is no problem for me. I just consider that changing outdated customs would be better for the Thai people. Just a viewpoint.

And as for your comments about a recent divorce - maybe you are confusing me with someone else. I have not had a recent divorce nor am I planning one

No further comments to make.

I've been to countless weddings over the past twenty years, mostly Thai to Thai and I've never seen the absence of sid sod, never. I've also never seen it given back to the couple except one time to help the couple get set up in business.

On another note, when a couple here does get separated or divorced the wife doesn't take 'everything' like most do in the west.

Here in Isaan it is the same. (I see you are predominantly from the south) All Thai men pay dowries. I too have never seen it not paid, and like you I have never seen it returned. Yet I am reliably told that in many other parts of Thailand, especially the larger city areas, once face has been gained, the money is returned. So why is Isaan so different? 1), because families here are mainly poor,and see it as a way to suddenly become wealthy (relatively speaking) and 2) because so many Isaan village people live totally blinkered lives, not knowing what is going on outside their own little fifedoms - some never having travelled beyond the nearest amphur! They will be performing all of their various quaint (and costly) non beneficial rituals for centuries to come.

And as for the wife not taking everything when a couple separates or divorces - of course not. In most cases there is nothing to take just debts to repay!

I married three years ago and told my prospective wife (previously married, 1 child) that I would not pay the dowry and would not spring for a big village wedding. I would take care of her in other ways.

Good on you. That's how it should be. Family (you wife and kids) No 1. Not giving the parents unwarranted face and satisfying the wishes of the villagers, by wining and dining them with never a word of thanks.

Over the past few years I have provided very cheap loans to a number of my neighbours, to enable them to marry the girl of their choice. The local loan sharks would have 5%+ a month! Most of these men would be regarded as manual workers in the west, mainly working on building sites for around 200bt a day.The dowries they were expected to provide together with the cost of the required gold trinkets usually ran to 100,000bt+. Yet despite the girls greedy families knowing of the couples love for each other, they would insist on these outrageous payments, knowing also that both would have to work work work for many years just to pay off the loans. What a start to marriage!

Would we Westerners allow our daughters to marry under such conditions? Would we sit idly by, with our new motorcycles, televisions etc, knowing that our daughters' were working for 12+ hours a day, almost every day with no end in sight, just to make ends meet so that we could gain face amongst the community. I doubt it very much. We would be happy for them that they had found love. We would try and help them where possible. We would be pleased that they could have a nice home, and maybe get on the first rung of the housing ladder. But here it's mainly about self. I want I want!

Some of you will agree with me and some not. That's what this forum is all about. putting across one's point of view, and listening to other peoples views in a calm and collected way.

Great source, 'Stickman' Do you actually believe he's an authority on Thai culture?

Iambabababor, After reading through your posts it appears you have a hugh chip on your shoulder and are a bit cynical in your quest to demeaner and demolish Thai traditions (living up to your forum name).

I never attributed the history of sin sot to Stickman, but merely indicated that was where I read it.

I have no chips on my shoulder whatsoever. I have an opinion on most things, like most people, and in a forum such as this I express my opinion on topics that interest me. I do not follow tradition and beliefs just for the sake of it. I am not a sheep that just follows the herd. I am a FREETHINKER! Obviously you do not share my opinion on sit sot - so be it. But it would seem that that you are one of these people that believes your opinion has to be shared by everyone, and anyone disagreeing with you is an idiot. Just look at many of the problems in the world today, largely caused by powerful people who try to impose their views and wishes on others.

Like many other farangs I disagree entirely with sin sot. Quite apart from the financial problems it frequently causes (especially to Thai couples), It is to me just a simple case of buying one's wife. And to amplify this view, my wife, shortly before I met her, received word from her mother that she had to return home as an offer of 60,000bt + 2 baht of gold had been received and accepted by her. And the 2 had never even met! My wife refused point blank and that was when she decided that no dowry would be paid if and when she got married.

Would we give the 3 month salary engagement ring which is now traditional in the west (I am certain it used to be 1 month but De Beer's marketing campaign has changed since the 80's)?

Calculating this I reckon my sin sod would be a fraction of this

The engagement ring is given to the wife -to - be, not the greedy family! It's value depends on your earnings/savings. Sinsod is an arbitrary amount decided upon by the Thai family (doubled or trebled in amount for a farang), invariably kept by the family to pay off debts and probably increase their gambling habits, despite them often knowing that the husband cannot afford it, and necessitating a poor quality of life for the newly weds for the forseeble future. Shame on most of them.

The origins of dowries here in Thailand began with the upper classes, and was a way for the man to show the girls family that he could give the new wife a lifestyle at least as good as that she had previously received. Money was shown, but never kept.

Interesting information, which I hear for the first time.

Where did you get it?

I would be very much interested in the source of this information.

Best regards

Thedi

Read it on Stickman a year or so ago. You hould manage to track it down.