cognos

..like real estate, which is all about location, location and location.. all the present, past and future red - yellow turmoil in Thailand is, at its core, ALL about money, no more, no less.

The red ringleader, Thaksin, is all about having power ( or lack therof ).. power IS money, and money IS power. He will do virtually anything to retain his power, and consequently, his money.

The Northeast, where most of the red support is from, lacks MONEY; its supporters are paid MONEY to protest (and so are the yellow demonstrators when it is their turn, btw), and lacks government assistance (read: MONEY) yesterday, today and tommorrow.

The drought in Issan only serves to drum up even more resentment among the red supporters, who lose MONEY when there are long droughts like this.

..and what will stop the unrest and the violence? MONEY (read: lack of tourism if it goes off the rails)

..is this argument too simplistic ?

..agree, disagree?

my relatives in Phuket have an old boxer.. a great dog.. I will check where they got it from

Village farang is okay.. he comes across sometimes to moi as a little arrogant ( I am sure my perception is probably wrong), but then suddenly he comes back on a more even keel, so overall I would give him decent marks for wit and a decent heart to go along with it.

How about another post.. the TV person you like the least? It wouldn't work of course, (as the thread would last about 5 minutes) as in person they may turn out to be a fine example of a human, in fact this is probably normally the case.

signed: consistantly inconsistant

farang for president

no.. farang would be knocked off quickly.. the audacity to suggest something of value..just work quietly behind the scenes

The violent way NEVER works

it sure worked in beating the germans and japanese in WW II.

actually the answer is to tear gas lumphini , ratchdamri , funnel them all into semis as they come running out coughing and truck 'em back to issan and CM . and then build a wall say a little south of korat . if they agree to play nice after and wear ankle bracelets , they can come back to BKK to work and feed their families .

you're comparing apples and oranges.. all despots go down, you know that well.. I wouldn't quite equate Thaksin with Hitler at this juncture..would you??

.. I'm being serious, and you are being sarcastic.. c'mon man, is that the best idea you've got? I'll give you full marks for originality, however

take care there

.. ya, and the two colors CAN work together.. it just takes a few enlightened people from each "camp".. and the new government could be a combination of red and yellow..

THE ORANGE PARTY.. and the song could be, for example "Lets Work together", Canned Heat.. for the 40C heat of LOS right now, and the "heat" of the conflict can be canned, bottled up, mitigated..

.. would there be martyrs?? OF COURSE THERE WOULD!!! Do you think the zealots on both sides would like this idea??? NO WAY !!

.. but the majority would eventually win the day.. and those that were killed in the transition.. well.. their allies would NOT seek revenge.. if they can see farther than the sun that presently shines out the zealots a holes

A good % of Red and Yellow Thai supporters are fed up with the present situation. Here is the solution..Assuming a majority of Thais are fed up..

Shut down the infrastructure of the country..Planes, buses, trains, government offices, etc.. leaving open all local markets so people can eat.

In weeks, the government will call an election, and the majority Reds would probably win.

Let the world watch, as the new government sinks or swims according to it's hidden, or transparent agenda, whatever the case may be.

For the average Thai, life will go on as per usual, whatever government is in power.

The violent way NEVER works. I won't even bother prooving it, its THAT OBVIOUS.

Try the non violent resistance approach a la Gandhi..last time I checked it got the British out of India, something violence would not have accomplished.. history shows that violence just begets more violence..

.. and an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind

.. is there ANYONE in Thailand with any political clout that is willing to think outside the narrrow box of violent confrontation???

We'll see

well i'm not a coffee drinker, and if i was.. i wouldn't drink a "blend"..sorry if i offended you.. perhaps "dumbed down" is not the right word.. how about "worldly"?

Violence begets more violence, like the proverbial dog chasing it's tail around and around.. faster.. faster.. FASTER and FASTER..

..as one leader is assasinated, or shot, another more virulent strain of the same "species", even more zealous than the last one pops up in its place, like the game "whack a mole".. or like the Taliban in Afganistan.

MESSAGE to Red and Yellow Thai folks who would espouse violence :

.."I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent." Mahatma Gandhi

.."when I despair, I remember that all through history the ways of truth and love have always won. There have been many tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they will always fall. Think of it -- always." Gandhi

.."What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?" Gandhi

.."Victory attained by violence is tantamount to defeat, for it is momentary." Gandhi

.."An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." Gandhi

.."The hatred you are carrying is a live coal in your heart - far more damaging to you than to them." Anon.

.."In taking revenge, a man is but even with his enemy; but in passing it over, he is superior." Sir Francis Bacon

.."always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." scar Wilde ( thrown in for "levity" )

Guess what Reds????.. you WANT to win??.. take Gandhi's approach of resistance without violence.. shut down the infrastructure of the country, take it on the chin if you have to, a few may die for the cause, but DON"T FIGHT back. That is how you can get the media of the world on your side, pressuring the Government to force an early election.

..conversely, if you INSIST on the violent way, do the Machiavellian approach ( NOT RECOMMENDED )

.."If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared."

Niccolo Machiavelli

hey, I tried..up 2 U

No, I'm not addicted - I only access during working hours

great minds think alike

I found the story below on barladies.com a few years back. Kinda made me laugh:

A warning. I had a regular tgf last year who like all of them was resisting my kiss goodby to her when i wanted to end our relationship. to cut a long story short she ended up putting a beer bottle through a tv screen and we where off to the monkey house(cop shop if you dont know). After talking with the room owner and police captain about paying the cost of tv, the nice little girl said to the cop,"he have picture of me, I want memory card from his camers". I am sure the cops eyes lit' up. well it ended up me being threatened with a court case accused of have indecent pictures in my possetion, or paying a "fine" of 80.000bt. I had to give the police my passport, ended up missing my flight and staying another month. Did you guys know, if the police make you stay over your visa time they will still fine you the overstay fine for every day.

So if you and g/f are happy, snap away, just dont fall out and end up in the monkey house like I did.

i can relate.. was in a hotel with Thai lady several years back.. she went into the washroom and came out high as a kite..( yaa baa)

..I told her to leave.. she refused and went ballistic.. so i left the room and told the American hotel manager (Hotel at Jomtien Beach).. meanwhile she stole the DVD from the room and took off..

.. the manager wanted to charge me with theft..

..lucky I knew a volunteer Thai policeman in Pattaya..i phoned him and he came and "rescued me"..

.. i too ended up in the "monkey house".. looking at photos with my police friend on the internet of ladies who were known as scammers for sucker farang like I was that night... sure enough she was on their "watch list"..

.. it was surreal.. about 10 police on motorcycles went with us to her apartment.. but she wasn't there ( this at about 3 am in the morning)

..needless to say i ended up giving the policeman friend a 2000 baht "tip"

To think some people are happy, that this man has been shot is really very sad.No matter what he ha said or if he wears a red shirt.Someone getting shot and there life nearly taken away is not something to be happy about in my books .

Read up on this A**hole... his departure from this world would be a blessing for most of the people in it. He has openly boasted about how many people he has knocked off in the course of his military career. "Getting killed doesn't hurt, I've killed lots of people, so I should know." So he got what he has asked for his whole adult life.

BUT HERE IS THE PROBLEM.. violence begets more violence, like the proverbial dog chasing its tail around and around..

.. faster..faster.. FASTER..as you knock off one person..assasinate them.. another more virulent strain of zealot pops up.. just use the Taliban as one example..

..and if you do not learn from History, you are doomed to repeat it.

what happened to passive resistance?? It worked for Gandhi

I know this is the Pub Cogsy, but even when well oiled, I reckon that is beyond the pale.

ya..beyond the pale.. over the top..only fit for the garbage pail.. i know.. but that's one reason i don't hang around in bars anymore

only funny when well oiled

Really and truly too darn bad that it had to come to this. But if a message was to be sent to Thaksin, this was a good one. The guy was a disgrace to the institution of the military in all forms and especially to the country he was to serve. Most likely Seh Dang will now be seen as a hero for the cause of the reds. Whoever did it should have taken more people out to blur the obvious, that he was assassinated.

Clear everyone out of the areas now. Don't stop. Put Thailand back on track now.

if Thaksin is a meglomaniac this shooting will barely faze him, as he wrecks Thailand from afar;

if he can't have the toys, he will break them all in spite.

..he would cut off his nose to spite his face

.. regarding Story 1..I forgot to add that the Vet mentioned the farang had told him his wife preferred it in the rear..we howled over this as well..

any wonder??

I am interested in hearing some of your stranger Bar stories.. the unusual people you met in beer bars in Thailand, and their stories, for fact is stranger than fiction.

(NOTE: It is regrettable that the political turmoil seems to be escalating, so perhaps it is time to take a break from "reality".)

A Vietnam Vet I met in a bar in Pattaya in 2007 told me he came to Pattaya in 1974 after the war ended, and has NEVER returned to the U.S., but just stayed in Thailand all that time.. HUH??? He gave me advice..NEVER marry a Thai lady, just RENT them..

( sound familiar??)..lucky i didn't take his advice..HIS story of note??

Story 1.This same fellow told me that a farang he knew quite well had married a GUY by accident.. (after a bunch of beers.. to hear this was hilarious and we had a good laugh over it)..he said the "guy" had a sex change to become a "woman", but the farang ( who was apparently somewhat homophobic ) was blissfully unaware of that fact..in effect..he had married a "guy".

Story 2. A 69 year old farang in another bar in Pattaya told me he had TEN Thai gf's, for he was an inveterate butterfly, AND he said he probably had the largest stash of VIAGRA in L.O.S.

Story 3. A fellow who is now a friend of sorts told me a story so outrageous, but true about himself.. that I cannot divulge it, else it may incriminate him.. for all i know he may read it on TV

Story 4..on to you TV folks

i didn't do so well.. 70%, 60% and 50%..no excuses

honest to a fault, as per usual

here's a similarity.. losing face.. its made up to be such a big deal in LOS, and it is.. but the dirty "secret" is that it is also a big deal in the west! ( although many would argue wrongly that it is not)

little known fact?

Oh please, my girlfriend in Thailand is constantly pissed at her sisters who have no money or very little. These women are on the phone asking her for money with out much regard for her and her own family. She gives one sister money for their mom but often wonders were the money went. The money given directly to the sick mom is often stolen while she is asleep.

Members of the family will come and stay for long periods of time but with no offer to pay for food or utilities.

In the end family values or what ever that means varies from one family to another, there is no broad brush to paint every Thai.

.. if that is true.. then.. ..taken to the extreme..( as i am wont to do)..each family in Thailand would have

unique attitudes, values, goals and practices that would characterize them and them only,

..so therefore..there would be no shared comprehensive integrated pattern of human knowledge, beliefs or behaviour within SPECIFIC families that would result in some sort of shared value system??

way above my head

OP, good post. Good examples.... But you stopped short of culture?

My belief is, the more is talked about it, the more one sees no substance there.

Customs, values, vanities, traditional thinking, - OK. But Culture? What culture?...

Oh, and if you are itching for an argument, start with your definition first...

..sometimes i feel there is no culture here in Canada.. just a hodge - podge of nationalities, and materialism run amok..like a bucket of puke thrown against a wall.. is it still art/culture ??

..what IS culture? perhaps it is the concomitant "brew" of a countries past experiences, actions, preferences, shared experiences of common values which form the mileau, or tapestry, or "flavour" of the indiginous peoples of said country..

..people seem to complain that "farangism" is undermining the fragile superstructure of the Thai culture, thus rendering it to pointing in a "western direction" of fast food and "angry" drivers..stressed families with no perceived time to smell the roses.. and always running "late".. doing what we don't want to do, and not doing what we want to do.

.. perhaps mixed with the inherent human nature of Thais, being only human, to "get ahead".. but does getting ahead mean trillions of plastic bags strewn about?

..Thailand's culture will remain, albeit "hidden" away in smaller and smaller pockets, from the old houses along the canals of BKK, to the local markets of Khon Kaen or Roi Et, to the isolated fishing villages of small islands..

..BUT.. as the world becomes globalized, lets hope that the best of Thailand "culture" ( whatever that really means) is not "dumbed down" to the lowest common denominator of a Starbucks Coffee shop, with the sterile and "could be anywhere in the world" folks of uncertain origin and agenda, lining up for "nothing".

older Vietnamese had it pretty rough for a long time.. and perhaps the issues have filtered down through the generations to follow. i have no idea though, and would certainly be interested in living there had i not already made my bed in Thailand and slept in it ( ie: married a Thai)

.. I can see why it could hold allure for the adventurous..

how about the contrast of Thai and farang soaps?? for some reason, i cannot tolerate farang soaps, but rather enjoy the Thai soaps.. what gives here?

..perhaps the Thai soaps are closer to the "reality" of hi so BKK folks( read: Tata Young), where the farang soaps are just too frickin' bogus/depressing to relate to??

off topic: wintermute.. where on earth did you get that avatar from?

signed: appreciation

I'll stick with my comb over for now.

Actually was in the Mid East for the past few weeks. Went totally local, buzz cut my head and reduced my shaving frequency to 2x a week and thats to "maintain" the stubble.

The missus actually likes my cut but says i look older and have an oddly shped head. I have threatened to put her in a burqa!!

..not sure if this is urban myth.. but they say that bald or balding men have more testosterone, therefore they are "hornier"..if this is true, perhaps men with bald heads think Thai women will desire them more

my loooo

here's one..the Thai - CHINESE ( sorry folks..blush ) habit of slurping/chewing food out loud, the louder the better..showing others at the table that the food is (delicious) aroy mak loy..

oops, i ( farang) do that a little too, and the Thai wife gently scolds me..YIKES, we're MUTATING into each other's culture (shock)

opposites attract

but I'm trying to change.. and they always say you can't change others.. however.. by showing someone a good example..they sometimes appreciate that example.. and perform the sincerest form of flattery towards you... IMITATION

monkey see, monkey do