roietjimmy

As a very funny guy once said in a comedy bit called The Seven Words You Can't Say On TV. "no such thing as bad words, only bad intentions"

I'm not sure how relevant this is, but it's interesting to compare 3 countries with similar populations, the UK, France and Thailand. All fairly equivalent in terms of incidents. However, I'm sure that the air traffic is a big multiple in UK and France more than Thailand, which would probably mean that Thailand is doing slightly relatively worse than those two countries.

Heathrow airport alone deals with more passengers than the whole of Thailand.

Oh, could be handling 68 mil passengers, Don Muang and/or Suvarnabhumi are near the 45 mil figure. They are in the same ball park. Then add other Thai airports.

Sydney does 25mil.

Agree, Air traffic is a major factor. Also note the data covers from 1962 until now. The US has by far the most air traffic and has the longest commercial air transport history. Given this the US is and would be expected to top the list.

think too mut - yes the data does reflect the country in which the crash took place.

mid - commecial only

taxexile - i didn't see the lauda air crash listed but it could be there in a non commercial category

The data base is huge and has all kinds of ways to access. Here is the link. Have fun!!

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp

Edit - Now that I think of it, the data base would contain only those air crashes investigated by the FAA. The FAA is not involved in all but they do investigate the vast majority. I do think the data reflects the relative number by country even though a few may be missing.

Thailand 3

???????

They list:

Bangkok, Boeing 737-400, 3/3/2001

Surat Thani, Airbus 300-200, 12/12/1998

I added yesterdays in Phuket

Total 3

Just for the curious, I looked up some numbers from FAA/NTSB data base. Lots of factors such as amount of flights but here they are for your analysis.

Number of fatal airplane crashes 1962 thru today. Only Commercial air carriers are included.

Thailand 3

China 7

US 78

Australia 1

India 5

UK 5

Malaysia 1

Singapore 0

Cambodia 2

Taiwan 4

Japan 2

Laos 3

Germany 5

France 4

Canada 2

Italy 4

Spain 3

Korea 2

New Zealand 0

Murder and rape are on the increase.

Is that true?

Hit the nail right on the head!! Just because we are more aware of "news" due to the proliferation of news sources and our ability to access it vis a vis 24 hour TV news and the internet does not necessarily mean there is more or less of anything. The only thing for sure is there is a lot more news available to a lot more people.

I feel your pain The closest I get to actually following a game is on NHL.com live radio broadcasts. They have all the games and being only sound you don't require a fast internet connection. (which you will never have here)

And yes, we may all be considered some of the finest hockey players in all off Thailand

Big fish in a small pond. I too was an aspiring young hockey player from Canada (Moose Jaw, no comments please). I played a season in the WHL. The only thing holding me back from moving on to the NHL was a severe case of "lack of talent". Currently living in an Isaan village so doubt any of the high tech suggestions will be of much help. Our 2 cans and a string internet system by no means is condusive to video steams or for that matter even sound only. Love the game and miss it here!

Eat it from the bowl or as a great burrito filler.

Southwestern Red Bean Bean and Pork Stew

1 tablespoon olive oil

2 pounds pork loin, trimmed of fat and cut into 1-inch cubes

2 teaspoons ground cumin

1 teaspoon salt

1 teaspoon pepper

1 onion, chopped

4 cloves garlic, minced

1 pound red (kidney) beans, soaked, drained and rinsed

8 cups chicken stock

1 pound tomatoes

1 jalapeño pepper, stem removed (can use local green peppers but not quite the same)

1 bunch cilantro (pak chee hom), stems and leaves

Juice of 2 limes

PREPARATION:

1. Heat oil in 8-quart stock pot. Add pork, cumin, salt and pepper. Sauté until pork is browned, about 5-10 minutes.

2. Add onion and garlic and cook until softened, about 3 minutes. Add beans and stir to coat with oil. Add chicken stock and bring to a boil. Reduce heat to a simmer and cook for 1 hour, stirring occasionally, until beans are tender.

3. In a food processor, puree tomatoes, jalapeño pepper, bunch of cilantro and lime juice. Add to stock pot and simmer for an additional ½ hour, to blend flavors.

Serving Suggestions:

Top with sour cream, cilantro sprigs, diced avocado, tomatoes or sliced radishes.

YIELD: 8 main-dish servings

Yesterday's horrific plane crash in Phuket, with the loss of about 90 lives, is another in a series of disasters that have hit Thailand in recent years.

Without being too specific we have had the Tsunami, a number of Ferry accidents, including the speedboat that capsized returning to Koh Samui from the full moon party, and hardly a week goes by without hearing of some bus crash, or pickup carrying 20 odd people back to Isaan going over a cliff. Murder and rape are on the increase. There seems to be very little value put on life.

Is it merely bad luck or can something be done?

Maybe it has a lot to do with the news medias focus on doom and gloom; disasters, crimes, crashes, politcal scandals, etc. Can't say as I blame the media though. None of us would be likely to buy a newspaper with the storyline, "Full moon party in Koh Samui held without any death or injury. All had a wonderful time".

Check out the guy in the green clutching his bottle of Lao Kao ..

Great fun..

Totster

He better have a strong grip on the Lao Kao or one of his buddies will snatch it away and drink it down in the wink of an eye.

It seems that the former opposition parties now see the need to court north-eastern voters (the TRT heartland support). The issue will be: will the northeastern voters forgive the Democrat Party - and others - for subverting the democratic process?

Well said! I would also add the Northern voters to Northeastern voters. The combination of the two represent a huge voting block. The Democratic Party is miles behind the former TRT Party, now the People Power Party (PPP), in capturing the "hearts and minds" of these voters. The PPP platform and message which was appealing in previous elections remains the same as the TRTs. At the grassroots level, the people within the party machine remain the same and are actively involved in drumming up support. These local organizers are the ones that have and will convince voters in the North and Northeast to cast their vote for the PPP. Couple this powerful platform with the additional issue of "forgiving the Democratic Party for subverting the democratic process", it is pretty clear the PPP will again get an overwhelming majority in the North and Northeast. In turn, they will as before either end up with a clear majority in parliment or at the very least the largest percentage of in the next election.

The question is, when they win again will we have to suffer through another "subversion of the democratic process"?

New Post

Jimmy,

Thanks for all your thoughts and positive suggestions.

The ones on fund raising are particularly interesting. In fact our 'Adopt a Village School' scheme is planning widespread fund raising in Japan and America. As the co-ordinator of the first 'adoption', I'm not involved with this but it sounds ambitious.

The issue of helping kids to escape poverty raises issues of the purpose of education here. I'm not sure it should be the aim to help kids to escape the village and join the urban middle classes. There is a future here in the village and I think the philosophy of the school is directed towards that. The children are taught to be good members of their community and there's a school farm where they raise vegetable and chickens. It's a difficult balance... they need literacy and numeracy but the relevance of academic excellence is debateable.

In any event, good nutrition is essential for whatever they are going to do in life and that's why the bulk of the money we're putting into the school will initially go towards a lunch feeding programme. Now we need more funds!

Thanks again. As I said, we old carictures must stick together!

Andrew Hicks

It sounds like the adopt a school scope is broader than I had assumed. I mentioned I was involved in a program several years ago to support village schools. The program was centered on bringing computer assets to the kids and was sponsored by a large Thai IT company. In a nutshell, the plan was to refurbish used computers, load them with computer based learning software focused on literacy and mathmatics, train the teachers on their use, and install them in village schools. Note, there was no intention of having internet access as it was impossible at the time given the infrastucture. We did a site survey in 30 village schools throughout the kingdom to assess feasibiliy. As we suspected, there were issues related to electrical power and the environment in which the computers were to be used (heat and humidity). We sorted out solutions to these issues. As part of the survey, we talked with the teachers to garner support for the program. Keeping in mind this was nearly 15 years ago, the vast majority were in favor of the idea but many had never seen a computer much less used one. We did however get unanimous support from the teachers.

The next step was to get permission from the Ministry of Education to run a pilot program. Here is where things started to go off track. The lower echelons within the MoE were quite supportive but as we moved on to higher levels suddenly we encounted all kinds of objections and roadblocks. Comments ranged from, "villagers are not ready for such a program" with strong implications they were too ignorant to use the computers to "the MoE has sole authority over the national curriculum and this program needs to be studied for compliance". The "study" in question would require funding of 10M baht and be funded by the Thai IT company! I don't think I have to expand further on this point. Of course at this point the CEO of the IT company opted to shut down the program.

So now to the point of my somewhat long winded explanation. No matter what you do within the realm of schools in Thailand, you will end up having to deal with the MoE and be faced with simular issues we encountered. The larger the program, the greater the number of "speedbumps" will be encountered. All of them will be motivated by the MoE asserting its "authority" over the most miniscule details of day to day school activities. Also in your case, there are political implications. Specifically, support from the MoE would be admitting Thailand has undernourished children and further, "outsiders" are alleviating the problem rather than the Thai government!

These issues can be mitigated by giving some thought to the packaging and promotion of the program. Get as much support as possible from Thai businesses to overcome the perception it is all "outsiders" behind the program. Keep the program objectives focused on supplementing diets and avoid the use of terms such as "undernourished". Last and probably most important, start discussion with MoE officials at the local/provincial level to assess the degree of resistance the program will encounter. The challenge is to get the MoE to "champion" the program by convincing them there is no threat to their authority, the program offers no politcal/career risk to MoE individuals (i.e. it is simple and will work).

It is infortunate but as in any country the simplest of good programs, intentions and ideas will at some point encounter a "bureaucratic" interference.

Sir, please understand my post was not meant to be disrespectful to you.

I would like to point out that if my sister in law had learned to be more like me she would be dead for long time ago. I have never worked hard in my life. I play all the time. I have been lazy all my life. If I had worked as hard as her and been as careful with money as she did, I would have been quite rich already. The only reason that makes me seem more successful than her is the fact that I am in HK, that is I earn much much more than her by just sleeping and playing here.(I am not thai btw, just in case you misunderstood)

And this is exactly why I even posted here. That is I can't stand people saying that those Isaan people are poor cause they are lazy. And they have chosen it and deserve it.

Everyone's background is different. Ability is different. One just can't learn to act like another person. One example I have given is "you can't run faster than Michael Johnson no matter how hard you train yourself".

I always appreciate your comments and never take them to be disrespectful. You are right all of us come from different backgrounds and environments so some have it easier than others. If you have noticed any of my comments to folks that have said Isaan people are lazy you will see that I just like you can't stand them. Isaan is my home and I am surrounded by hard working responsible people. Your choice to live in HK and just play and sleep is something you chose to do and it has brought you a measure of success. I doubt you are lazy though. Even sleeping and playing can be hard work!

It is difficult to learn to act (behave) like other people especially when we are older. The reason it is difficult is because we have from birth learned to act the way our parents or others around us have acted. We can change if we really have a strong enough need and desire.

BTW, If you ever get the chance to see my wife when I've really upset her, you will see me breaking every record Michael Johnson ever had, without using steroids as he did.

I'll resist and not post something that would send for a break. Others, who called u names were right.

I did apologise but do please read the response to your "in the eye of the beholder" question.

Poverty like beauty is a defined in the eye of the beholder.

Is that right?

Here is the "eye of the beholder":

Nice pictures. Too bad none of them have anything to do with Thailand. Looks like Bangladesh. Been there many times distributing "cake".

India.

Tell us more how the people deemed poor "by the eye of the beholder" can get out of it.

Remember the pics before you sink back into your utopia.

First ignore my somewhat strong response to your last comment. My apologies!

I do agree with you there is poverty so deep and severe that the only thing useful is to keep the poor souls from starving so at some point they can get out of their extreme poverty. Maybe, this will help clarify what I intended when using the "eye of the beholder" statement. Instead of saying poverty is in the eye of the beholder let me say being poor or less successful than someone else is relative. For example someone with 2 rai of land and 1 cow might be poorer than one with 3 rai and 2 cows. The same holds true for the number of cars or houses a richer person has compared to with others. Sufficiency means different things to different people.

I apologise for the wordiness of my post but the key point is if a person is not satisfied with what they have, then they have to be dedicated to make changes in the way they think and do things. To get something, you must sacrifice something. Those not willing to change will be destined to remain the same. I am not talking about poor village people becoming millionares but rather becoming more successful (less poor) than they are now.

Poverty like beauty is a defined in the eye of the beholder. If a person is contented with their material wealth, as Peter991 points out, they will not have any incentive to gain more. On the other hand, a person who is discontented with their material wealth, no matter how much they have, may consider themselves poor and conclude "there must be a better way".

The bottom line here is to what degree one is dedicated to making the changes in their life to achieve their goals.

Yet another dreamer.

Poverty is a statistical thing, there must be one and it defines what being poor means.

Bono (of U2 rock band) propagates that each cow in EU zone is subsidized 2 US$ a day and uses it in his campaigns to better the African continent.

Half of the planet's population have never made a phone call.

As for "goals to achieve" - it's as simple as this: most of the poor want their cake. Not to learn the recipe to bake it whenever and wherever they want.

Wow another original response. An exact cut and paste of ones you've used before!! Your response as usual contain irrelevant nonsense having nothing much to do with the OP. Maybe just once you could take the time to read a post in total rather than pulling quotes out of context so you can make your cynical remarks. Even better yet why not give us your ideas on the OP "Climbing out of poverty?"

Poverty like beauty is a defined in the eye of the beholder.

Is that right?

Here is the "eye of the beholder":

Nice pictures. Too bad none of them have anything to do with Thailand. Looks like Bangladesh. Been there many times distributing "cake".

I still don't see anything substantial enough being pointed out.

People are saying to stop this "Alcohol, tabacco, lottery tickets, soda pop, junk food, gambling are just a few.". My sister in law doesn't do any of these.

People keep saying to learn something.

LEARN WHAT?

Please don't just dream like there are plenty to do!

My post certainly wasn't saying your sister in law was wasting her money on any of these things. My point is if anyone wants to make more money then they have to make some sacrifices and save some money. We all know it takes some money to make money even if you want to start the smallest of businesses.

You ask "learn what?". As I said, find someone you respect and is successful. Some would call it a role model. It could be anyone (even you) no matter what business they do. It is not important to learn exactly how they might cook their noodles, boil their eggs or what ever. The important thing to learn is how they conduct themselves then make the changes in your life to act more like them.

Having read many of your posts and responses, I can see you are "successful". In order to reach that success, you made the effort to change your way of life, made sacrfices, learned what you needed, dedicated yourself to your job/business, made smart decisions and made the best of opportunities you were given. In the end you did the things necessary to become successful. Until people are willing to make the sacrifices you and many others have nothing will change.

I might add, I also have a few "in laws" that are in need of some specific advice. Maybe you can help because I sure as heck can't seem to get them to change!!

Poverty like beauty is a defined in the eye of the beholder. If a person is contented with their material wealth, as Peter991 points out, they will not have any incentive to gain more. On the other hand, a person who is discontented with their material wealth, no matter how much they have, may consider themselves poor and conclude "there must be a better way".

The bottom line here is to what degree one is dedicated to making the changes in their life to achieve their goals. The world is full of people who want more but lack the drive to make the changes needed. I am familiar with the "sister in law" thread and while the brother in law (a Thai) has made the changes, his sister in law does not seem to have the drive needed to change her situation. That is, she is content to complain but not change her ways even in the most fundamental ways. Change is something no one is comfortable with so consequently they come up with a variety of reasons why they cannot change their situation. These include, I am too old, I am uneducated, I have too many children, I don't know how to change, I have no access to information I need, I need more money to change, ad infinitum. As Jinthing points out working harder doing the same thing you have always done will only result in getting the same thing you have always gotten. However, work hard at changing your habits!

As the OP points out there are many variables related to each individual (gender, education, family commitments, children, etc.) because of this it is impossible to be specific on what I would do if in their shoes. There are however general things/traits that can be employed to better ones self.

- Commit to making drastic changes to what you have been doing. Without the fire in the belly to change, nothing will.

- Educate yourself. I don't mean this in the sense of more formal education because this is not a likely or available option for most. Learning from others is probably the best way. Find someone you respect (hopefully in a legal business) in the village or elsewhere that is in your mind "successful". Watch, listen and learn what they have done and do daily to acheive success. Then adopt their behaviors as much as you can.

- Understand that you will have to make sacrifices. No matter how much or little you are earning, you will need to have some money if you want to do be "successful". No matter how poor you are, there surely is something you can sacrifice. Alcohol, tabacco, lottery tickets, soda pop, junk food, gambling are just a few. If you have only the ability to afford the barest of needs then the only option is to find work no matter how menial to earn money to put aside/save.

- Given you lack formal education/credentials nor do you have a specific job skill, you should be looking to start your own business. Start small as per teacups "boiled egg seller" and don't expect to be rich overnight.

- If you put all your effort into the business, have a product that people want, continue to save money from the profits, and grow the business slowly and smartly you will reach a point of "success". There are countless cases of people raising themselves out of "poverty" if they are frugal, dedicated, and take advantage of opportunities for growth. I need only drive 10 minutes in any direction from the village I live in to see hundreds of examples of "success".

For those who may think my comments naive, the poor do have a much more difficult time than the rich in reaching success. They are not connected to the "right" people to sponsor business startups. They often lack enough education to "think" in terms of smart decisions. They lack in understanding fundamental business practices, (i.e. sales and profit are not the same thing). They can be subjected to harassment from criminal elements. They will be pressured by family members and others in their villages to "share" their success. And finally, few will really make the changes and sacrifices needed to succeed because they clearly don't have the desperation and consequently the drive to do so. Given all these disadvantages, only a few will make it but some will!

Edit- BTW, be wise enough to know when you have reached the "level of success" you want or you will spend the rest of your life sacrificing and never really enjoy the fruits of your labor!!

Another option you might consider is crossing into Laos (Suvannakhet) from Mukdahan then thru Laos to Vietnam. Transportation is available from Suvannakhet but be warned, the roads are really bad in Laos so allocate lots of time for the trip.

It can be done remotely, or in evening/weekend courses. It does take determination and commitment, but is well within the financial means of even the poorest farmer. But we have covered that before.

Scenario.....Applicant for Job : I'm 30 years old, for the last 15 years I have been in a Village in Isaan looking after my Family, I have absolutely no experience at all with any type of work, but on the advice of a guy on an internet forum, I've tried my best to learn Chinese, Japanese and English, I have had no experience on computers as my village does not have telephone lines, but the guy on the internet seemed to think that this would be ok.

Idiot!!

"I've tried my best to learn Chinese, Japanese and English" while learning to speak Thai.

Adults are sometimes answerable in part for their own poverty but children are not. Helping them is efficient and appropriate and I hope our fund raising for this project will be successful.

Andrew Hicks

I applaud your efforts and wish you success. The level of poverty in villages varies greatly from one village to the next. In your village, undernourished children indicate it is very poor. Supplementing their diets will contribute to the childrens ability to learn and receive an education which, as most agree in this OP, is the the springboard to breaking the cycle of poverty by giving them a foundation on which to make "intelligent choices". Based on their own observations of the behavior of some villagers many have commented on the futility of your efforts as a waste of time and money. I in no way dispute their observations as we have all seen cases of laziness, scams on the generous, drunkenness, and apathy. Others have commented, and I agree, that compared with others such as Burmese and Vietnamese, many Thais are not prone to making the most of the opportunity for an education. Why this is so I am not sure but it would make for an interesting post. I have highlighted "some" and "many" as even the most critical commenters would be hard pressed to claim all are included. There are numerous cases where the children of extremely poor Isaan villagers have broken out of the poverty cycle by way of education and have returned to help others get an education.

If I may add a word of advice regarding your "fund raising". First and foremost, engage the Thai business community. Having been involved in activities simular to what you are doing I have found there are many who able and willing to help. Talk to merchants in your Ampore to get them to contribute food, school uniforms or ??. Refrain as much as possible in asking for money as there is deep suspicion regarding money donations given the number of scams in the "charity" business.

Will all the children you are helping take advantage of the opportunity they are given? The answer is no, but if even a small percentage do, then it will be well worth the time and effort.

As a much wiser man than I said a couple of thousand years ago, "Good actions give strength to ourselves and inspire good actions in others."

The Ship on Suk, soi 23 used to be my choice but not sure it is still good or even still operating. Small and very much a pub rather than the larger well known ones in town. It has been a few years since I last ate there.

Absolutely incredible coming from an avowed anti Communist who trained in the US, fought in the Vietnam War as a young captain and later as a special forces commander against the communist insurgency in Thailand! If the quote is correct, it certainly confirms just how far of of touch many Thai leaders are with world opinion. Agree with Somtaamgaiyang, if a Chinese leader was to be a role model, Deng Xiao Ping would have been a much wiser choice.

Mac has hit the nail on the head. The ID card name/title is what is used in the passport. According to the wifey, the ID card title is not changed even when there is a name change. Once a Nang always a Nang!