DannyS1951

I should add that the Revenue Department would issue the document to refer to the Irish-Thai tax treaty if I wanted to spend the time (two trips) to do it. Maybe I will just to stop the nag screen that Google has on my account page right now.

Forget all of the above regarding the Thailand-US tax treaty, now Google has told me the document was needed for the Irish tax authorities. I have no idea why this is so and obviously my document is aimed at the US authorities not the Irish so wasn't accepted. I think Google bases some of its European operations in Ireland so it may be important if there is an EU withholding tax being mooted. I am trying to find out more and also why I have wasted so much time on this so far. Apologies for causing a scare about extra documentation.

Well, maybe this isn't all you will need. Maybe I will need to get a Thai language certificate and the above just becomes the English translation of it. More as I find out.

I picked up the Certificate of (tax) Residence R.O.22 from the Revenue Department regional head office today. I'm attaching a redacted copy to this post. I quick explanation of why I needed this again. I publish some eBooks on Google Play Books. As with the other US online book shop websites I claim under the US-Thai tax treaty a reduction in US withholding tax from 30% to 5%. I do this with documents issued by the IRS which also gives my company a EIN tax number. Google now ask for an additional document from the Thai Revenue department to show the company is tax resident in Thailand. This document is in English and has a Thai Revenue Department document number of R.O.22. Although in my case this was issued for a company, I'm pretty sure the same document can be issued to individuals and for reasons other than the US-Thai tax treaty. Some things to note. It was only issued at the regional head office and not at the local Revenue Dept. branch in my case. I suspect that other companies like Amazon will follow Google in demanding more documentation. It is valid for just one year, but has no cost at the moment. It's a very new document according to what my local Revenue branch told me, only being issued from the beginning of this year. (This could well be wrong information.) I'm taking it as not being the same as the Thai language Tax Residency forms that are needed by some foreign Thai tax payers. I doubt I'm the first person to be asked for this certificate, so hopefully this thread will be of help to others.

So I put in all the paperwork yesterday at Bangkok Region 2 head office. No problems but told to come back on the 7th May to pick up the company tax residence certificate. I'm not sure if this is the R.O.22 certificate or it has a different number. This is a document from the Revenue Department in English to be shown to foreign companies or tax authorities that you pay taxes in Thailand. I will post more after I have picked it up next month. At the moment I suspect this is only needed if you or your company claims tax relief in the US under the Thailand-US tax treaty. This can reduce US withholding taxes on us sales from 30% to 5%. Not all countries have this type of tax treaty with the US and those that do have various set tax levels. The UK for instance has a 0% US withholding tax. To use the Thailand-US tax treaty you do have to jump through some hoops with the IRS in the US, but it may be easier now as I did it quite a few years ago. The IRS will issue you with EIN tax number once you are accepted. So far it is only Google who have asked for this new certificate of tax residency to back up the information the IRS already has. The chances are that other US companies will follow this line. For me it is mainly used for online book selling companies. We do know that the government is looking at taxing foreigners here who are earning income from abroad so more people may be caught up in the need for a document like this. The tax residency certificates can be supplied to either individuals or companies, the stipulation being that you are paying Thai taxes. As I find out more I will add to this thread so the next person that needs the information can find it. I should add that I suspect this is part of the KYC (Know Your Customer) idea which I think comes from the US government to make corporations take the responsibility of stopping the likes of money laundering and tax avoidance. I may be totally wrong on this.

So far from our accountants I found out I need 3 documents to take to the Revenue regional head office. They are: 1/ A copy of the latest PND 50 including the tax receipt. 2/ A copy of the certificate of incorporation issued by Ministry of Commerce issued not over 6 months. (Hopefully I can do this online with the DBD (Department of Business Development.) 3/ A filled in tax form RA01 ร.อ.01. You will need the company stamp for sure and I guess all your usual personal ID documents. I will tell you how I get on. It's a new tax document that Google is asking for, one that has only existed since the beginning of the year according to my local Revenue office. I always figure that when one company asks for it, the others are sure to follow.

Mike, the second part of your comment didn't come through because of a permission problem. Am I looking at the wrong document when you say Para 77 which seems to be about penalties for false claims. If so I think we are talking about two different things. I am looking for a certificate, possibly called RO22 according to Google, which shows that a company already pays Thai tax and is resident in Thailand. (This is for a company or as Google says an 'entity', not an individual.) For those selling through some of the large US online companies you already probably know about EIN numbers from the IRS and Thai/US tax treaty. Google are now asking for this new certificate. According to my local revenue department office this form has only been issued since the beginning of the year and has to be obtained from the revenue department's regional head office which in my company's case will be at Huay Kwang. I suspect if Google are asking for it, it won't be long before Amazon, Apple and the others will also want it. The difference it could make is between 5% and 30% of IRS withholding tax. Now it seems that there are similar forms for individuals as well as companies, but they will need the individuals to be paying Thai taxes. Hope this is a bit clearer. The accountants that handle our company are now inquiring about it with the Revenue Department. I will try and post more information as I find out. I noticed the RD's website had slightly changed or update the required documents this morning. Here's a link. https://www.rd.go.th/22740.html

Google asked me for this form last week. I didn't think it existed but my local Revenue office says it does but I have to go to the regional head office to collect it. This is proof that either you or your company pays tax in Thailand. If you already have the US IRS EIN number so that US sales come under the US-Thai treaty of 5% instead of the standard 30% withholding tax then you will also need this certificate with Google. I wouldn't be surprised if other global companies like Apple and Amazon start asking for it. If anyone has already done it could you tell me the form/certificate R.O.22 is the same for both individuals and companies? Google told me they don't care whether it is a person or a entity. If nobody has done it then I will try and keep the forum informed on how I get on there data here for others to follow.

Here is some free advice for any Brit worried about renewing their passport before their Thai visa runs out. Like most advice it's probably only worth what you are paying for it:) My own passport renewal took the best part of 4 months. The big problem for me was that there was no communication from the Passport Office to tell me there was a problem. It took quite a few phone calls to find out, but was then fairly quickly sorted out. (You do have to deal with the Passport Office in Liverpool. The Bangkok VFS Global office offers no customer service between giving them the application and them telling you to pick up the passport.) While sorting out my own passport I found out a very old friend was in an even worse position of being 8 weeks away from needing a new passport and extending his visa. He is quite ill and had let it slip. So figuring I had learned enough about the system I offered to help. He has just received an email telling him his new passport is in Bangkok waiting to be picked up. This is exactly 3 weeks since I put in his application. Below is a list of points that may help. 1/ Do read the application form once you have printed it out. Although I had made out my form correctly with my friend's I used blue ink to fill it in and get him to sign it. It has to be black ink so I had to return the following day with a new form. (Why the Passport IT system doesn't have OCR that can recognise blue on white seems to say a lot about UK government IT systems.) You will need a new appointment to take the remade form back but the staff can give that to you while you are there. 2/ Try, and it can be hard, to be civil to the VFS staff. I have a feeling it's one of those jobs with a very high burn-out rate among its staff. From the security guys on the door to the desk clerks you feel they are expecting arguments and abuse. There nothing to be gained from getting upset with them. 3/ If you are unsure whether your passport photos meet the requirements there is an office on the left hand side of the ground floor of Trendy Building where you can get them done. Once the application is accepted VFS will give you a receipt. You should bring this and the old passport when you pick up your new one. VFS will send the paperwork by DHL to Liverpool and you will have a tracking number to see when it gets there. The reference number that VFS gives you doesn't seem to mean anything to the staff at the Passport Office. 4/ The Passport Office recommends allowing 12 weeks for a renewed passport, but if you are worried that you have left it late you can talk with them on the phone. The number to call is +44-300-222-0000. Allow a week for your application to get into the system there. The Passport Office is working UK office hours and holidays so check the time. Calling in the morning UK time is pretty bad. The first person answering may well be working from home and as they will probably have to pass you up the chain they face the same problem of getting someone to answer their forwarded call to the office. One of the staff told me that calling at 1PM was about the best time to get through and it seems true. 5/ Again try and remain civil. The person you are talking to is constrained by the rules of the system. Tell them you are calling from Thailand. They will ask for you Passport Office reference number which you won't have. They will then search for you in the system using your name. If you are calling for your own application get them to give you the reference number. If you are calling for someone else they are not allowed to give it to you. 6/ Now this where it gets important. You will have been passed up the chain of command, hopefully without a lost line making you start again. You should explain that your right to extend your visa and stay in Thailand depends on you having a valid passport. This is an acceptable reason in the Passport Office for making your case an emergency. The phrase to use is "International Case Escalation". With my friend this meant that his new passport is in Bangkok within two weeks of making the telephone call. I was planning on making another call next week but this is no longer needed. 7/ So just to finish, best thing is to give yourself plenty of time. If after 12 weeks you haven't heard anything start to make calls to the Passport Office. Do not expect them to either call or email you if there is a problem. Hope this helps anyone facing problems. My other piece of upbeat news is that last week at Chaengwattana immigration having arrived early I was out by 10:05AM having done the changed passport form and the extension followed by a re-entry permit and my 90 day reporting. Not bad at all and with time to have two cups of coffee. That was an early start though, getting to their office before 7AM and getting low queue numbers. Mind you driving over there any later than leaving my place before 6AM adds hours to the trip due to traffic. p.s. For the trolls, there is really no need for you tell us how smart you are and how you would never have any problems. We can just take it that you are all that you say you are.

I think you have to go back to the 1980s when the Home Office took over the passport office from the Foreign Office. Even after that they originally allowed 90 consulates to issue passports. This was then cut back to six regional offices. (Ours was Hong Kong.) Then everything was taken back in house in London or now Liverpool. So now in Thailand they use a private contractor in VFS. Anyone who believes in 'small government' and starving the public sector of investment has only themselves to blame, but I would guess VFS makes a profit out of it. Much as I hate going into town, it's probably better than sending the application to Hong Kong. Much better was when you could roll up at the consulate with no appointments and get a new one there. I did talk to someone on the consulate hotline saying that sorting out a friends passport application was less work for the local consulate than visiting him in an immigration jail, and she agreed but their hands were tied. It was hands off anything to do with passport issuing.

If they even had an online payment form it would make life far easier, and yes if we are going to use VFS then they should be trusted to take cash payments for passport renewals.

Yes, I did find out. It was stuck in the payment process, but I was never informed until getting through an awful lot of phone calls to Liverpool. Remember the first thing you need is the Passport Office reference number which is not the one VFS give you. Next thing is if you figure the best way is to get family member in the UK to use their credit card, if the person answering the phone in the 'payment team' is working from home they cannot take credit card information. I would advise anyone to start calling on 10 weeks as in my case at least they didn't contact me. You can ask for the renewal to be 'escalated' if your foreign visa or residence depends on a valid passport. There is a team in Liverpool for renewals of overseas citizens. As for me, I picked up my passport yesterday, exactly 4 months after I applied for it. If I hadn't made the calls I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have had it. Once the problem was sorted it took the two weeks they said it would on the phone. Anyway I've stayed involved with the passport office because an old friend who is seriously ill ask me to help him get his renewed. He has left it extremely late as his passport runs out in November. I think I may be able to speed it up a bit as I've been through the system pretty well. Even so I still managed to write his application in blue ink and was sent away on Thursday. (Remember to use black ink. The passport office's ancient OCR software must have problems discerning blue from white.)

I was talking on the consulate hot line (Bangkok number but answered from the UK?) and the lady explained me that the Passport Office is no longer under the Foreign Office. It is now run from the Home Office and has been since 1984. (shows how much I knew!) According to Wikipedia in 2007 the ninety UK diplomatic missions allowed to issue passports overseas was cut to just seven. In 2011 this was stopped altogether and all passports are now issued from the UK. For all believers in small government please tell me how well this is working. Anyway the consulate staff do not get involved in passport matters, but may have to pick up the pieces when something goes dreadfully wrong. In other words if you stuck in an immigration jail they may be allowed to visit you:) p.s. I seem to remember sometime about 1983 it taking just a few days to get a new passport at the Bangkok Consulate. At one time they even let me have a second passport so I could have one in for work related travel visas while travelling on the other. That very soon became far too complicated though.

For anyone intending to use VFS Global in Bangkok to renew their passport, here is something to watch out for. The payment form asks for your credit/debit card details and a signature. This is the old fashioned way of making payments and there isn't an online payment form for overseas residents. Be very wary of using a local bank's credit or debit card to pay for the passport. It seems to cause the Passport Office in Liverpool all sorts of problems. Use a UK credit/debit card if you have one. If you don't then there are ways a family member in the UK can pay for your passport if local cards cause a problem. (I suspect that the local banks querying the international use, but I have used them in the past without a problem.) I'm not sure if VFS Global can help that much so it will probably need telephone calls to the Passport Office to set it up. Be prepared to spend a couple of hours being shifted through the system on the telephone. VFS Global use their own reference number but this doesn't help much when talking to the Passport Office. The first thing to do, (and I would suggest doing it at 12 or 13 weeks after the application), is to get them to give you the real passport office reference number which is a 10 digit number. You will need to have this to move through the departments (called teams) at the Passport Office. Hopefully you will have an easier time than I had today. Quite why the Passport Office cannot use the contact information they have in the form to notify of problems I don't know. I was told by one of the management team that they are not allowed to send outside emails from the office and only a few top level examiners have this right.

Well I see someone very clever suggests clever people like him would allow 6 months for a British passport renewal. I'm not that clever so I only allowed 4½ months. (Mind you I'm clever enough to be able to type in the "½".) So VFS Global suggests 13 weeks is about the right amount of time to wait. I'm now at over 15 weeks and I'm getting worried. I wish I was as clever as the man that says clever people give it six months. Again mind you, I have been here so long I remember when our passports were issued by the Bangkok Consulate. After that I went through the courier to the Hong Kong passport office stage. We obviously wasn't as clever as this man back then, but we always got our passports.