olddog

Thank you both for your responses. You can perhaps understand why I am reluctant to call The Immigration office direct, as what she says is inconsistent and inaccurate.

Other tricks the Nice Lady has pulled:

- Refused a Marriage Visa application on the grounds that the applicant hadn't taken a medical examination (not required - but he took one anyway just to get it done)

- Refused another application on the grounds that the applicant had had 400k in the bank for only two months prior to application as specified in the paperwork she supplies, and not the three months required by law.

- Refused another application because it did not include a letter of guarantee from the bank manager (not included in her "shopping list" and therefore complete news to the applicant)

- Refused another application (where supplied paperwork was 100% perfect) on the grounds that it was made too soon - "Come back next month" - and then writing a date which conflicted with the date she gave verbally.

These are just instances known to me; presumably there are others.

I'll try the hotline, but it was really written information I'm after. Surprisingly, the Thai Immigration Department's web site is of no use.

Thanks again - and if there is any more advice, please keep it coming!

(and yes, Tod, you guessed right...)

First, I am sorry if this topic is already covered. I've looked, but not found the info I need.

Here's the story - the nice lady at N***** P***** Immigration has a well-deserved reputation for making life difficult for the farang. The forms she passes out ("shopping list" for visa application) are inaccurate and incomplete, through inefficiency or bad will, and create a lot of headaches for the poor souls just trying to furnish the right information. In addition, she creates obstacles on her own initiative (many horror stories), including the following:

A friend of mine recently went for his first three-monthly stamp on his marriage visa. She asked him for his bank book, and as he had it with him he showed it. His balance was under the 400k limit you need to apply for a marriage visa - for which he had already successfully applied. She told him he had, therefore, to leave the country and come back in on the standard Non-Imm "O" visa run. As he's the unargumentative sort and was unsure of his rights (such as we ever have here), he complied.

As far as I understand it, you are not required to show funds in excess of 400k at each three-monthly session - this is just a requirement for visa application. As far as I understand it, the nice lady has no right to demand this information, let alone act upon it in this way.

I only want to do what is required of me, as ever. I am keen and able to comply with Thai law. But I do not want to be bullied and lied to by the nice lady. So here's what I need - is there anywhere an official bit of paper I could print out which shows my legal obligations at the three-monthly report? Preferably originating in The Kingdom? I don't want to have to rely on what I think is correct, I would like to delicately place before her the authoritative written code of practice as agreed by her government. Actually that's not quite what I'd like to do with it, but I'm being polite here.

Any information on where I could find a written copy of the legal requirements and obligations will be immensely appreciated!

(Incidentally, someone has already hinted to me that I should just give her a thousand baht, but that's a last resort, and I get the feeling she might make a fuss about that anyway.)

Thanks to you all as ever!

I love the complaint that the walkways will add to visual pollution. Take away the visual pollution in Bangkok and all you'd have is a few temples in a rice field. As much as I enjoy Grung Dep, it is easily the ugliest capital city I have ever known. Most of it was built in the last thirty years, right? There are NO civic or commercial buildings of architectural worth. Such heritage and tradition that remains only remains to be bulldozed to fill the few remaining canals to provide the foundations for another brutal concrete block aping western style. There is nothing you could do to further visually pollute the city. It is an absolute nightmare to look at, from any corner, from any vantage point, from any window. It is a brutal, ugly, mess of a city made liveable by the places that provide isolation from it. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate it. I just see it for what it is, and then stop looking, because it makes my brain hurt.

Part of Bangkok's baffling charm lies in the difficulty in walking from anywhere to anywhere else. "Strolling" is an impossibility. Every pavement/sidewalk is an obstacle course, but it's what you have to dodge and duck and step over that gives the city its character. No other city has this frustrating, delightful, aggravating, tiring, exciting, dangerous, poisonous, addictive ... but immersing mix at street level. You're right in the middle of life, with all its downsides.

Walkways ... they'll fatten the usual cats, and maybe provide another level of isolation from the nature of the city. But I like to think the Great Minds of Bangkok will find some way of messing up a simple idea (like not running long enough trains on the BTS - that was a stroke of administrative brilliance that transforms a potentially brilliant infrastructure into an unpleasant experience). I like to imagine the pristine architectural renderings of western-style commuters and shoppers "strolling" from air-conditioned office to air-conditioned mall, and I like to imagine the life on the streets somehow finding its way up there, between the broken and/or ignored CCTV cameras. The hookers and the food carts and the DVD sellers cluttering up the airy perspectives ...

Thank you all very much for your replies. You've been a big help!

I'm currently starting the process of extending my non-imm "O" into a "Marriage" Visa. My local immigration office is Nakhon Phanom, from where I picked up the checklist called "List of documents ... In Case Of Supporting Thai Spouse". The lady there was very pleasant and helpful (and I was with my Thai wife), but in the Thai way of things, it started to get vaguer the more I tried to pin down exactly what is required of me. Most of it is clear (-ish), and I'm sure can get everything and anything required, if I only know what it is.

BUT - three requirements are still baffling (even after - or perhaps because of - having them explained to me by a Thai):

ITEM 8: "The applicant's testimony record"

ITEM 9: "The applicant's Thai spouse's testimony record"

ITEM 14: "A report of investigation of truth finding on the above claims by the provincial immigration office or local police station"

What are these documents? Where do I get them?

Also - I was told to bring the Head of my wife's village with me when I file the application. I questioned this (there's no mention of this anywhere), but she insisted on it. It won't be a problem - just an inconvenience - but I wondered if anyone could shed any light on this as a legal requirement?

If you've been through this, please share your knowledge with me! I only want to get it exactly right so as little time is wasted as possible. Nakhon Phanom is about an hour's drive away, and the less I have to make it the better!

Thanking you in advance -

I didn't want this to turn into a competition! I just genuinely couldn't find the info (you admit to having trouble yourself) - but some of what you say needs comment:

"Cost for me to get Confirmation of freedom to marry:

500 baht - embassy statutory declaration" - when was this? Check the website - the fee is 2725 baht now at the UK Embassy.

My cab fare was 200 baht each way - about what you'd pay for Suwannabhumibol. Chaeng Wattana is not as close to the Skytrain as you make out. It's not worth arguing about, either way!

(Not sure if this is the right forum - please move if better somewhere else)

As a Brit, I'd been pretty scared by the bureaucratic hoops you have to leap through in order to marry a Thai woman - basically, getting an authorised Freedom To Marry document you present at your local registry office. I know of agents who charge between six and fifteen (!!) thousand baht to take the whole process off your hands, but I managed to do the whole thing myself in a day for around three thousand baht, so I hope the following advice is useful:

1 You and your partner both do not have to do this together. They only want to talk to you. This isn't exactly clear from the information on the web.

2 Stay in a hotel close to the Embassy (on Wireless Road) - I stayed in Street One Lodge on Soi 1, about five minute's walk away, but there are others. there are also translators on Soi 1, which you pass on the way to the Embassy.

3 Here's a timesaving trick: the afternoon before (when you check in to your hotel), take a second copy of your printed-out but as yet unsigned Affirmation of Freedom To Marry (downloadable for retyping from the Embassy website) - ie the form as far as you can complete it - to a translator and get them to translate it, telling them you'll be back with the stamp (which they also have to translate). They'll be working on this while the Embassy is processing it. BUT - GET IT RIGHT - otherwise you'll have wasted your translation fee.

4 Get to the Embassy before everyone else, when it opens. Go early, be first in line. Accepting your application and payment will take about ten minutes. They'll tell you it will be ready by 1pm (and it will), so go and eat something.

5 Be back at the Embassy early (they shut for lunch) so you can be first in line. Pick up your stamped and signed Affirmation and walk it back to the translator. Mine completed it in front of me in about two minutes. get a photocopy of your passport (business end and relevant visa) while you're here - saves time later).

6 Flag down a cab and tell him you want to go to CHAENG WATTANA, KHONG SUN. Don't bother with "Ministry of Foreign Affairs" or the street number - they'll mean nothing. Chaeng Wattana is the mega-highway out in the burbs, which everybody knows, and Khong Sun is the name of the building that houses the MFA. This is a long trip and will cost you about 200 baht. A cab is the best way to go.

7 At the MFA, don't be worried by the millions of people and apparent confusion - start at the information desk and follow the instructions. You'll go from desk to window to office to desk to window, and get it all done (even if it's busy, like it was when I went) by about 3pm. Pay the double fee (800 baht) to get it done on the same day, unless you love the place so much you want to come back the next day (and remember that 400 baht cab ride).

8 Give them an hour while you eat in the cafe, then go back and wait. Mine was ready at just past 4pm.

And there you have it! No agent necessary, and if you wanted to, only one night in BKK.

And I have to say that everybody I had to deal with - both at the Embassy and the MFA - were charming.

Since I hope that I won't have to do this again, it would be a shame if my experience wasn't of value to someone else.

I don't think anyone's mentioned the fact that free visas resulted in a significant loss of income for consulates. I'm glad my friends at Hull have had this restored to them. It's to no-one's benefit if consulates close, and I rely on the great service I get from Hull to live here.

Here's a handy clip-n'-keep list of how to turn tourism around in Thailand and earn the government millions of baht (for all the Thais in positions of power who read this forum):

- No border crossings for multiple entries. Simply go to your local immigration office and pay 2000 baht for your next passport stamp.

Yes, it's a short list, bur it's a waste of time making it longer because there is not ONE person in the Thai government who has an ounce of sense in his head. And they certainly don't need farang advice, thank you very much.

Great! Simple, quick replies giving him all the information he needs. Thank you both for taking the time to reply, it will be much appreciated!

I'm sure I could get this information from somewhere else, but the idea of a quick post/reply is too good to resist, as the knowledge and information are more up-to-date and reliable on this forum.

I'm planning a visit for my Dad, who lives in the UK. He'll come over in mid-November, and leave in January (next year).

- What kind of visa would he need? Once here, he's not going to hop any borders until he flys out.

- Where would he get this visa from? Are there any passport or other requirements?

- When should he get the visa?

If I could email the information I get here, it'll be a big comfort to him to know how to go about it. The visit's a long way off, but he's started to prepare for it already!

Many thanks for (I'm sure) having to go through the same old stuff all over again. It's for a good cause!

Old Dog in Isaan

Totally disgraceful. But there is a definite atmosphere in Phuket, a real edge to the place you don't have to be psychic to sense. It's not a peculiarly Thai thing, either - I've felt the same thing in some parts of L.A., and, for that matter, Bedford. I just don't like the island, it gives me the creeps. So you have a situation always waiting to explode there, and it doesn't take much to make it go off. And while I'd never even suggest it was the tourist's fault (no perceived parking irregularity warrants a physical attack) I know from long personal experience that there's nobody quite as arrogantly infuriating as a Frenchman claiming a parking space as his personal right.

Phuket? We all know the answer to that question ...

Thank you very much 7x7, that's everything I need to know.

Thanks for this, gotlost, it sounds like good advice. Does anybody have any specifically UK experience/advice?

My Thai girlfriend recently got a 6-month UK visitor's visa, but a neighbour said she will need to show "insurance" papers to get into the UK. I think this is highly unlikely, but if there is anyone out there who can reassure her that a current passport with a valid visa is all she needs for the trip, I'd be grateful!

(Just a note - this was the second application. Last year's was refused, and the reasons given were clear. So we took a year making sure these reasons couldn't be used again - satisfying their concerns, if you will. This year's application was slim, but contained all the documentation needed. Maybe that first application should be treated as a "dry run" by anyone seeking a visa - but it's a hel_l of an expensive way to find out what they want from you!)

"The brewers must be very rich to keep one of their own products off the market, in order to promote another."

Yes, brewers are extremely rich! Singha is their premium brand, but I'm sure if Leo was available in competition there would be enough of a brand migration to hurt their Singha sales, and they'd suffer an overall loss of profit, as they make more from Sing than they do from Leo. Still no answer from the brewery, btw - there's a surprise!

I've sent an email to Boonrawd Brewery's "PR Department" (the link is on their totally uninformative website), asking them (in the nicest possible way) what's in Beer Leo, and why isn't it available in farangeries in Bangkok.

As their "PR Department" is inevitably a twenty year-old girl who can't speak English and spends all her time chatting to her friends on the internet, I hold out NO hope for an answer but will keep you informed!

Hoegarden and Duvel are nice but too expensive and not widely available.

I like Singha, actually this is what I drink in the Thai restaurants here in Cambodia. Never cared for Chang much, and hate both Heineken and Jarlsberg. Never tried Leo, must try and find one in BKK this weekend.

If you eat in what looks like a genuine Thai restaurant (ie half on the street, with toilet rolls on tin tables) it's 100% certain they sell Leo. If you like Singha, there's a fair bet you won't want to drink it again after Leo.

Still no answer to the "what's in it?" question? Nobody knows? No hops, right?

Heineken used to be good beer, as I remember it, about 30 years ago in the UK. Maybe my tastes have changed, but it could be the beer just isn't as good. Like most of the posters here, I think it's undrinkable. All it has is global marketing and a brand that inspires confidence in Germanic values.

Beer Lao is seen as lo-so by the Thais, but always beats out Sing/Tiger in blind tastings. They still can't bring themselves to buy it, though.

I've often asked myself about the Leo thing. Why is it not avaible in bars and reasturants outside Isaan?

Someone must have some kind of conspiricy theory as to why this is?

I just had a moment of zen-like clarity (brought on by a chilled bottle of Leo); Singha and Leo are brewed by the same company. If they started selling Leo in all their farang outlets, after a brief period of acclimatisation most of their sales would be from Leo, with a consequent drop in sales for their "premium" brand.

Maybe?

Also - anybody know how they make beer in Thailand?

"How many times is this question going to be asked??" - as many times as there's someone who feels like asking it, and someone who feels like answering "How many times is this question going to be asked??"

"- Carta Blanca (unavailable in LOS)

- Tecate (unavailable in LOS)

- Pilsner Urquel (unavailable in LOS)" - thanks for the useful information. Now I know what not to ask for at the 7.

The Chang thing. Getting Chang-ed up is part of the initiation into Thailand. But having done it twice is exactly two times too many for me. Waking up with what feels like a buffalo skull (complete with horns) taking the place of your own, and your mouth tasting like a Sumo thong (I imagine) is not my idea of anything except hel_l. And isn't Chang Lite a contradiction in terms? Like Death Camp Holiday? I have to admire people who drink it regularly, though. They have to be from another planet.

Local Thai government workers like to show off a few bottles of Heineken on the drinks stand. Me, I'm proud to drink Thailand's Greatest Beer (note to Leo execs reading this: free samples welcome).

Leo seems to get the thumbs up so far - so why isn't it more widely available in farang bars and restaurants? And does anybody know what it's made of? I'd love to know.

When I lived in Bangkok. I'd drink "Beer Sing", or Heineken, or Tiger, or, when I could get it, Beer Lao. I never even tried Beer Leo, because I thought that it was lo-so (you don't find it in faranged-up bars or restaurants), and that my tastes were more refined than those of the average tuk-tuk driver.

Now I live in Issan, and a miraculous change has come over me. Beer Leo is, absolutely and indisputably, the way to go. I started drinking it because where I live it's the most easily available, and I got tired of paying premium prices for beer I didn't really like (Sing and Heineken). I was amazed. It's a great drink. Now, when I think I (and millions of tuk-tuk drivers) must be out of our heads, and I try Singha or Heineken or Tiger as a "treat", they taste absolutely terrible - sweet and insipid. On visits to Bangkok I always ask for Leo in swanky farang pubs and they always look at me as if I'm either mad and/or a tuk-tuk driver.

I don't get commission from Beer Leo for this, by the way (I wish I did!), but I always look forward to my cold bottle of Leo with my stir-fry at lunch, served by a smiling Issan girl. How could life be better? By paying for "premium brand" swill? I don't think so!

Just a few words of thanks for the advice given here, which saved me asking the question again! I live in Nakhon Phanom district, and the immigration office there transferred the relevant entry stamps, but not my Type O visa. They said I should show both old and new passports on my next visa run, but as nothing is ever really clear in Thailand, I cam here for confirmation. I didn't get a letter from the Embassy with my new passport, though (renewal done by post), although this doesn't seem to matter.

A couple of notes: when applying for a new UK passport, make sure your new photograph conforms ABSOLUTELY to the very strict requirements specified on the web site. Mine didn't (my face was 2 millimetres - yes, 2 MILLIMETRES) too short from chin to top of head, and the lady at the Embassy very kindly called me rather than send everything back (the regulations), so I was able, with some difficulty at the local photographer's, to send them what they needed. If you're using a photo-booth, take a ruler to measure your head on the photograph, because it's going to be hit and miss!

The other note is for anyone using (Nakhon Phanom) Immigration. Have 2 photocopies of everything relevant BEFORE you go to get your entry stamps transferred to your new passport, and this includes a completed (as far as you can) departure card. If you do that, it's a really simple procedure. I had to hike around the block to get mine done, which doubled my wait time!

This is not so much a reply as a kind of additional request, and although I think it's been more or less answered above, I'd appreciate as much clarity and detail as possible, for obvious reasons!

- If I (a male) marry a Thai woman, what visa/residency rights/restrictions does this confer?

- After marriage, what do I have to do to benefit from these rights (if any?)

- Is it best to marry in Thailand?

- What documentation do I need to get married?

- Any hidden traps/disadvantages?

I'm sure this information is available spread out over this site (and the web generally) but if you have the time to reply here, so I have all the information in one place, I would REALLY appreciate your effort.

Thanking you in advance -

Old Dog

(EDIT: I posted this as a "reply" rather than a new topic, because it's very similar in nature - if it should be a new topic, please let me know - I don't want to complicate or divert the original poster's request!)