XiengHai

Speaking Lao is different. Anyone know what percentage of native Isaan people speak Lao?

What we often call Lao as it relates to Isaan people's language is not Lao. It is known officially as Northeastern Thai, better known as Isaan. Most Isaan speakers cannot understand the Lao languge even though they are related. Some Isaan people get quite irritated when the term Lao is used either in relation to language or ethnicty as it implies "low class".

To your question:

There are 16 languages spoken in Isaan. Population numbers are about 10 years old but figure % are about the same now.

Northeastern Thai (Isaan) - 15,000,000 - 87.39%

Northern Khmer (Khmer Lue) - 1,117,588 - 6.51%

Thai (Khorat Thai) - 400,000 - 2.33%

Kuy (Suai) - 300,000 - 1.75%

Remaining 12 all less than 1% each - 2.02%

btw: There are 51,000 who use Thai Sign Language in Thailand. They are all in the business of selling trinkets and ripoff tee shirts to tourists.

Aren't you glad you asked.

Does this then make Northeastern Isaan the most widely spoken language in Thailand?

i think his table is just the discription of the Isaan region and not the whole of thailand,

which is about 60 million nationally, Isaan ppl being between 16 to 20 million.

But i do wonder, talking with Farangfool, why did the Isaan pop. not assimulate as easely as did the Northern ppl of Thailand.

i think because Isaan had a closer tie to the Lao ppl east of the river, being the connection was more obvious, through the Indochina war, and refugee's crossing over into Isaan, as the nothern regions of thailand developed mostly on its own, culturaly.

even though, i find that my friends who are from Nothern Thailand, use their local dialects more often when speaking to one another then they do using central dialect, which the Nothern Thai Dialect being more similiar to the Lao language of Laos then it is similiar to Central Thailand dialect? I can understand Nothern Dialect farely easley, were as i have trouble grasping central dialect.

even up to the 1930's, reference to the Nothern Thais was that of the "Lao Tung Dam," meaning the (Black Belly Lao) of Chiangmai, in reference to the local pupulation of males who tattooed their bellies, vs the "Lao Tung Kaow" (white belly Lao) of the ppl of Loungprabang, because they tatttooed their arms and area's around the belly. of course these terms were used to describe the Nothern Thais was discourage do to the implication of Thaification of the region, and to erase the local Lao heritage of the region implacing the central viewpoints of selective history, revised.

very interesting, while i understand the emphasis on the kings, I m very curious about the local dynasties such as champassak and ponsawan areas or chiang saen (not to mention those of isan).

May I add Suvannakhomkham Kingdom? I am quite fascinated by it, although it was probably too much North to count as today-Isaan?

please do, i think many of us are starved for additional information but a little lazy to pull it up on our own. We might even get some ideas for our next trip and places t o visit.

Thanks for the information also, as i travel to these different places, it's very nice to know the local history as mentioned above, and not get the nationalistic view of it.

it truly give u a sense of whats around you,

as for Champaske Kingdom, i believe, so correct me if im wrong, is merely a kingdom more recent that was created after Lanchang broke up into 2 kingdoms, after the King had died, which were Loungprabang and Vientiane;

Champaske Kingdom was born when the nobles in Vientiane fought to who should rule the vientiane part of what was formly apart of Lanchang, and a bunch of the vientiane noble split town, went down south and create Champaske. well thats the short of it,

O yeah, i found this map

U can image the migration partern of the Tai ppl along the Mekong

I think the answer can be put also as, "Is Northern Thailand Different Also?"

Every region has its distinctive character, but the starting point of the thread was that only Isaan voted 'no' to the draft constitution, raising the questions of 'Why Isaan?' and 'Is Isaan different?' Northern Region voted 'yes', just like Paak Dtai and Paak Glang.

Yes the NOrthern region vote was very close, but chiangrai, Nan, and other the eastern provinces closet to Laos, voted No.

One difference is that, even though Nothern regions are mainly ethnic Laotians, they(LanNa) for the most part has always been considered a seperate Lao Kingdom, vs LanChang, were as Isaan was always apart of the one Kingdom(LanChang) that is today called Laos.

wish i can be in Chiangmai so i could attend, maybe i should send my friend and she can talk on my behalf, but since i cant attend:

the threat of terrorism is soley based on One religion and One religion only

get rid of this one religion and the threat of terrorism goes with it

this is the outcome when u have a religion soley based on faith and faith alone, faith blinds ppl in thinking they are right no matter what, it blinds them to debate, and blinds them from logic

once u get away from logic and the result of logic, which is the truth, then that person becomes very dangerous, they start flying airplanes into buildings

im speaking in the broad sense that is

Loie

Roi-et (good rice farming)

Chaiyaphum (good rice farming)

I would stay away from the larger towns. Forget Korat city, they don't even speak pasa isaan there.

Loie is a great place to start,

visit the famous "Stupa of Love between 2 nations" placed there in the 16th century by King Chakraphat (Ayuthaya) and King Setthaya (Lanxang)

there u will get a sense of the region before all this nationlism came about in most recent history

just take a boat down the Mekong, and u will get a sense of the connection of Isaan ppl and where they came from, u will see the distinction very clear, and why they talk the way they talk, think the way they think, and see where this culture came from.

visit NongKhai, if u get the chance cross over to Vientiane

visit Nakorn Panom, and cross over to Thakhet

u will see the ppl are not different at all, from Nakorn Panom start heading west to Kon Kean and visit the temple memorial of Phraya Niran, a great Cheiftian of the Isaan ppl in the 19th century, during the war of independence of Isaan from Siam. of course we know the outcome, Isaan is apart of Siam/Thailand today.

but as someone said, the heart of cultural traditions of Isaan is along the Mekong, and thus spread Westard. the closer u get to Bangkok, the more u will see the influence of Bangkok, Isaan was named Isaan on the basis that it is Northeast (meaning of Isaan in sanskrit) of Bangkok.

if u visit the southern cities, u will get the sense of the Khmer influence in Thailand

Surin (Khmer) is to different from the majority ethnicity of the rest of Isaan (Lao) to ever be capital.

maybe Northern Isaan and Southern Isaan should have a civil war to see where the capital should be? like the US Civil war resolved many of the issues facing them.

the name of the country, well, since they are Lao ppl, basicly, like the other ancient Lao Kingdoms, we have:

Lan Na = Land of the, Million Ricefield

Lan Xang = Land of the, Million Elephants

Isaan should then be called

Lan TukTuk = Land of the, Million Tuk Tuk's

I agree with you, just kicking dirt around,

they say its lao ppl who have the tendancy to talk bad about thai, but i have notice its the opposite

Lao and thai ppl attend the same Wat in my home town,

and its funny to see these lower class Thai ladies, attempting to look down upon the Lao ppl, who make 10x the money she does, live in $500,000 homes and drive Benz's?

and she goes rambling on about lao ppl, its mostly out of ignorance of course,

U then have the other Higher class Thai ppl, who are more educated, now starting to look down on these ladies, hoping she would shut up because she is making the rest of them look bad.

To me I can only speak Lao - I cannot understand hardly anything 'Royal Thai'. However the difference between Issan and Laos isn't so great and unlike stated previously an issan speaker will easily understand Lao. My wife when visiting Udon or Nong Khai speaks Lao pretty much all the time unless in formal situations i.e. hospitals etc. Also when I ask for things in Lao in restuarants or shop etc I never have a problem with people understanding, unlike when I am in Bangkok.

Issan folks as previous stated also say they are Lao whenever my wife is talking with them - as said if a Bangkok Thai talks maybe they say they are Thai - dunno!

I think the big difference between Lao and Thai-Issan people is the fact that Lao people are 100% proud to be Lao and everything that goes with it food, religion etc etc. Whereas Thai-Issan are split, and in my opinion the Bangkokian Thais are fast losing there identity and culture to consumerism. Funny that nearly all Issan people who my wife speaks with who have visited Laos always comments about how delicious the food is here. Which always causes me a wry smile as I remember several yesterday ago reading that 'bastion*' of travel reading 'The Lonely Planet' stating something along the lines of 'Lao food in comparison to Thailand is bland and tasteless!'

* In my opinion they are the bastian of talking <deleted>!

i think the answer can be put also as, "Is Northern Thailand Different Also?"

but i hear many times that Laos is being too influence by thailand, and soon Laos will lose its culture.

but the fact of the matter is, Thailand is losing more of its identity, the ppl of the different regions, especially NOthern THailand and Isaan , are speaking more of their native tongue, and the fastest growing, most popular type of music these days, is Lukthong which is basicly Lao music and morlum.

so im concluding that Thailand is becoming more and more like Laos, culturally, rather then Laos is trending towards Thailand. culturally speaking, not in the modernizing sense. 10 years from now, thailand will look so much different, if someone was put into a time capsule, and awaken 10 years from now, they would not reconize the nation as we see it today.

but Isaan is more likely to become an independent state, like someone posted, rather then ever be apart of Laos again. and seeing the way things are going in thailand, one wonders if that wont happen sooner then later.

Well looking at that Issan Air site, I noticed there is quite a lot of info there including a national flag.

From Issan Air

Why the American flag is part of it I can't say. Could it reflect a future invasion of the US by Issan?

Wow, seriously that is the national flag, i see the lao That Nakorn

is that Cambodia flag sorta? cant tell, but what is most interesting is,

are u sure that the thai government would allow the Lao Kingdom flag to be put on their flag? that is crazy

Actually, a couple years ago, I did have my secretary call the record label, I think it was grammy, trying to find out Jintala's concert schedule. After getting bounced around, we finally got some sketchy information, but nothing solid. At the same time, I understand that most of the concerts for the famous artists occur at large outdoor "fairs" throughout places in Isaan. Though, I have to believe that once in a while they must come to Bangkok too.

This might be a very interesting type of event to go to, but again, I've been discouraged by local Thais I know. They said there are many low-life and drunk people at these events. However, I like to live dangerously.

I'd still be up to going to something like this if anyone knows the details.

Don't be discouraged by the prejudices of non Isaan Thais looking down their noses at the "peasantry". A big morlum concert is without doubt an experience not to be missed. I have been to many and like you find the music irresistible. Anyone who can sit still during a good morlum concert is either deaf or dead. It is one huge party and not surprising it resembles a Rolling Stones rock concert. Sure there is a lot of booze flowing and occasionally things can get out of hand but nothing to be too concerned over.

Here is her web site http://www.jintarafanclub.com/. Check it for her concert schedule. You'll need a Thai speakers help. All the good ones will be in Isaan usually associated with a provincial festival.

Lukthung is the most popular music in Thailand, u see many of the central thai artist singing a lot of their music now,

but again, Morlum is very very different from lukthung, Morlum is the traditional Lao music, where they dance in a circle called the lumvong, and all the girls wear Sin and fon,

Lukthung is more like rock and roll i guess, they have the dancers in the background, and such with the daisy dukes on

Morlum and Luktung are different types of music

ummm, i've gone throught the different sections, and so far, Isaan sections seems the most interesting,

Chiangrai is the cultural heart of ther Northern Region, so i love it

O yeah, "Thai" means free, i had forgotten

in central Thailand, if Thai means "free" then what does "Tai" mean?

maybe Isan should be Tailand? then they would have to annex southern Isaan to Kampuchi, since they are mostly ethnic Khmer.

Hmmm, i talk to many Isan ppl, and they acknowledge that Isan are Lao, maybe around bangkok ppl they say one thing, and around Lao ppl they say another thing.

but i dont know how anyone can over look the historical records here to simply answer this question, which shouldnt even be debated. The whole population of what was the Kingdom of Vientiane, from which u included all of the Khorat Plateau/Isaan region, the whole population on the east bank of the Mekong was moved on to the West bank to what is Isaan. saying doesnt necassarly mean its true, there is opinion and what we are willing to think as our selves as, and then u have reality.

but Isaan ppl can say they are Thai of course because their nation is Thailand, they are Thai ppl without a doubt, but ethnicly and culturally they are Lao.

just as the Nothern ppl of Thailand are Thai ppl, because they live in a nation called Thailand, but as the Isaan ppl, ethnicly they are Lao also.

but anyway, Thai Language is basicly Lao language which is 70%-80% and Khmer Language 20%30%.

so there shouldnt be any problem communicating with one another, with a few changes in some letters, like thais use more of the "R" and "L" letters inplace of lao words that use more of the "H" letter, "CH" for "X", "V" or "W", etc. but they are basicly the same word,

but the ppl of Isaan are the largest ethnic group in Thailand, so shouldnt that aquate to them having the most political influence, maybe they should be better organized?

my next trip to Thailand, i hope to visit NBL, and Khon Kean,

i want to learn about the history about these places, especially NBL

what would the country be called, i doubt it would be Isaan? they are basicly calling their country, "Northeast" if they do so.

of course Udon Thani should be the capital, i believe it was the capital of the region when it was apart of a larger kingdom, way way back, before the capital was moved across the river to Vientiane.

it should have a Constitional Monarch.

Khorat is the Economic base since it is closet to BBK.

Kon Kean should be the cultural center,