Bardamu

I'm afraid i don't know how you can solve this problem as the same has been happening to me for pretty much the same length of time. I empathise with you.

I find hitting things works quite well.

There was no personal element against the posters in my cri de coeur re these stats, but they have and continue to distort the viewpoint. However, I agree wholeheartedly that violence here, both with and without firearms is a major, and it seems growing, problem. There is [un]surprisingly little study about it, and there is a tendency to view it as a 'rural' {or imported into the cities by same} issue, whilst ignoring the incandescent activities of those whom some would describe as 'hi-so', the Mini incident in Emporium anyone?.

Regards

A Traveller . . . can u tell me where you get your stats from . . . as seen as you can refute experts then it would be good to know just where you get your information that states previous posters/article are erronious/spurious . . . i'm sure you'll come up with a godd answer.

I found a site that carries the gun death statistics for several countries. The link is posted below.

The results of these statistics are amazing. The top three countries are at least an order of magnitude above the fourth, which unbelievably is Zimbabwe (I thought they would have ranked higher).

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_...arms-per-capita

I suppose this indicates that shootings of the kind we've been reading about here over the last month, are the rule, rather than the exception in Thailand. The rest of the world should be made aware.

Yes, that's the site your Chiang Mai article got it's statistics from, and has been discussed here before. Unfortunately, the statistic of 20,000 gun murders per year is wrong due to a mistranslation of the official Thai police statistics. 20k is the number of gun crimes, not gun murders, committed per year in Thailand. That includes murder, but also robbery, assualt, and illegal possession. Since these per capita statistics are based on the faulty 20k per year number, they are completely wrong as well. The total number of murders per year in Thailand is 5-6k, which per capita is twice as high as the US, but no where near as bad as is made out in the article you posted earlier. There do not appear to be statistics on the method of murder committed in Thailand.

I stand corrected about the figures, if what you say is true about them being flawed. I accepted them in good faith, since the source should have been reputable and why would anybody willingly want to distort figures.

Just as a point of interest and something that I can confirm. We live in Phetchabun (the main town) where the population is reported as around 22,000 in the last census. To our knowledge, there have been three shootings in the last year, two of which were in the recent 3 months. Two of the victims died, the survivor (a kid of 16) I saw riding his bike last week. So 2 deaths in the last year by shootings, population circa 20K - I'll leave you to do the maths. These were all 'face' incidents involving Thais only. Phetchabun is a quiet, sleepy province and not much goes on there. Of course, to collect meaningful statistics requires a longer sample period to even out the spikes. Nevertheless, it's still thought provoking.

Here's is another thought provoking figure for your maths. Dr. Pornthip claimed last week that approx 10,000 unidentified bodies were found in Thailand last year and did not get post mortems. Outside her there are only 6 qualified pathologists in the country at the beck and call of police (She works for Ministry of Justice).

Mmm thats about half the population of Phetachabun, which btw, is a source for many of the country's hitmen. Most of the 10,000 she believes may have been from neighbouring countries. Its much more dangerous to be a Lao, Khmer or Burmese 'tourist'. These were not recorded as murders. If they were,together with the 2-3000 from the War on Drugs, statistically Thailand would not look quite so peaceful.

I agree with you buddy. I talked to one of the chief investigators of homicide in CM recently and he told me there are a lot of unreported murders. In fact, the Nationmaster (that takes stats from WHO and CIA Factbook) is most probably a very light number. Thais, as we all know, don't really want to show their worst side . . . read other articles on torture, human rights abuses, murder . . . speak to (foreign)journalists, watch that idiot they have voted in deny that the massacre in 76 didnt happen . . . get out of your bubble . . . we live in a country with an alarming murder rate, a very dangerous country where people get shot daily all over the place . . . just ask a cop, ask a lawyer . . . and ask what the conviction rate is . . . while you're at it, ask how they manage to get so many people owning up to crimes so very quickly . . .

This is the wild west (east) and if you think any differently you're living in a dream.

Has anyone tried the paintball here in CM. I know there is one at the lake and another on the loop. I also heard there was a new one in Hang Dong. Can you recommend one?

How much does it cost if you go with say, ten people?

What do you need to bring?

Thanks

p.s Carry you use knives and/or knuckle dusters?

I'll see you there then . . . bring my Union Jack.

I'm not that young, but thanks. I served in the army cadets for 3 days back in 78. It was tough, tough going. In the end i didnt make flunky and was kicked out for recalcitrant smoking . . . but i did my time . . . no one can take that away from me . . .

"Nationalism is an infantile disease, it is the measles of mankind."

That's Einstein.

"We are all beggars for confirmation." Thus spake Bardamu.

Hello, I find this topic interesting and at the moment i am researching a book about ghosts. Does anyone know of a haunted place in Chiang Mai where i might visit?

At 4:30 A.M. Burger King has the best burgers in Chiang Mai.

When i wer lad in Chiang Mai i 'ad to live in a skip, and if a waz lucky, 'ad get gravel thrown at mi for supper befoh mi father beat mi wi a wire brush.

Well Bardamu, that tirade should stop the debate nicely!

A poll sounds like a very good idea princealbert, these burger and pizza threads are becoming quite repetitive. How about pinning the poll at the top of the page so that it can be kept current with new outlets and present standards - although I guess that might not work because there is only one vote per member and if a burger at xyz outlet is great in February but by July abc outlet have upped their game and become favourite it would not be possible to cast another vote . . . ah well.

Perhaps a Burger Forum dedicated to the wonders of patties and buns?

Even better, banish all such threads to the Western Food Forum.

dam_n - how did I get drawn into this? Time to get back to work!

No, i've not finished . . . i forgot to add my favourite burger. Mong Pearl Cafe on Huay Kaew Rd. just up from condo Lanna 3. You wouldn't think it would be good, but it is. Very nice meat. Not as greasy as other joints spoken of earlier. Get the bacon double cheese. Comes with chips, not fries. Good stuff. See, i also have a burger fetish . . . that rant you refer to, don't they call 'projection' in pyschology? I need a freaking burger, now.

Burger, dam_n, i mean, Bardamu . . . that's parapraxis!

JxP

I can say with much pride that in my travels and living back in UK I have never,nor intend to in the future entered a Mac Donalds or Burger King

How can you make this proud quote and then go on to talk about "burger hellholes" and "World Crap Food" and then claim that I have misunderstood your intentions? It is perfectly clear where you are coming from. People who feel that not eating burgers somehow places them amongst the world's top intellectual elites need to do a little thinking.

As to my dining habits, I lived in San Francisco for many years and have frequented some of the world's best restaurants on a daily basis, however, I never became so pretentious as to not enjoy a Whopper at least every once in a while.

I don't eat them all the time, in fact, I'm not even that big a burger fan, but sometimes they really hit the spot and I feel sorry for those who feel compelled to pretend otherwise.

Perhaps the 'real' question is; how can one judge the merits of something having no experience with it? If Gennisis has NEVER eaten in a Burger King why does he feel qualified to say there is something so wrong with them that he will NEVER enter into one?

Imagine if the first person to eat a lobster, snail, or, God forbid, the unborn child of a hen, were to take that same attitude! A lobster is just a large underwater bug that couldn't have developed to that size on land because of gravity. It's a bug. (well, not scientifically...) Of course, here in Thailand, school children eat bugs by the bagful as after-school snacks. Gennisis, do YOU like to eat bugs?

The lowly hamburger achieved some social status when they added some extra spices and changed the name to 'Salisbury Steak.' Neolithic Man ate his meat raw and we called him a barbarian. Now we get to charge a small fortune for 'Steak Tatare' and 'Carpaccio.' But Gennisis will only eat a buger if it's made from 'flllet.' Doesn't 'fillet' only mean 'boneless?' How about fillet of swayback water buffalo cow? Wait.... that's called McDonalds, isn't it?

I don't think there are many who eat hamburgers every day. Perhaps not even every week. Personally, I have one roughly once a month. It makes a nice change from lasagna, enchiladas, weinnerschnitzel, Kow soi or Pah Krapao Gai, and falafel. But I do enjoy that once a month burger. Even if it's not made from fillet....

Sometimes I have Burger King when I want THAT flavor. Other times I go to Mike's. Other times I prepare them myself. I worry about that one though... I'm not sure what I put into it....

I think what the guy was saying was it seems a little sad that the main, most frequented and laboriously repeated topic on Thaivisa CM is burgers. I'm sure you love a good old burger, i bet you even look like a burger when undressed, but why you feel compelled to go on about it all the time is somewhat confusing, and amusing, and it also invokes people to write back and take the piss out of your burger fetishism . . . let's be honest, it is quite ridiculous how everyone goes on about a bleeding slab of meat in a bun.

I've seen many an intersting topic on TV and usually - i'm not sure why - the topics are deleted or stopped by the 'others' . . . i am guessing that we are all really interesting people but are circumscribed by censure and so are backed into a burger corner. If it weren't for the prudes and prigs we'd be having fantastic debates on all manner of CM's eccentricities and idiosyncrasies . . . although, thinking about it, maybe the burger obsession that most of you grown men suffer from is one of the most interesting, flummoxing, psychologically striking topics in CM. In fact, i have an idea for a story . . . boredom and the burger . . . burger addiction and retirement . . . the way of the bun . . . and so on. You're all mad. Good job on that. Keep up the good work. Enjoy your burgers . . . i can't stop, oh the liberation of anonymity, the power . . . i'm bringing 600 burgers to Tuskers on Friday night, we can get drunk together and i'll pack them into your stomach with tamper . . .

I often don't receive mail that people have told they've sent. Quite a lot of my mail has already been opened when it gets to me. Once - quite foolishly - my father sent me some money in a card, the money was missing upon arrival. I am not a great believer in the postal service.

Can someone tell me Thaivisa, and possibly half of Chiang Mai's expat crwod is obssessed by bleeding burgers? Is this the utopian dream, burger heaven?

Provide evidence that both you and your g/f have employment to which to return and sufficient funds to pay for the trip, and that, along with evidence of your relationship etc., should be good enough. Your friend with whom you will be staying should confirm in writing his offer of accommodation and demonstrate through council tax/utility bills that the house is his to make the offer.

They're not looking to see that you've got a lot of money in the bank, just that you can pay for the trip and you've got something to come back to.

Scouse.

Thanks a lot Scouser, that's a weight off my mind.

There is one more thing i am a little confused about. After we have all the required documents, she must then go to BKK (we live in Chiang Mai) and submit her application. It says on the form i have that she may be called for an interview. Does that mean the same day? Or does it mean returning to BKK at a later date. If so, is it possible to submit the application at CM British Consulate and then go to BKK later for the interview, or does it mean two trips?

Cheers

Hi,

I've just got the details from the British Council about what my girlfriend and I must do so she might get a visa to stay in UK for two weeks.

Most of it is not a problem. She has a good job, her employer is going to write her a nice letter, etc.

The only problem is . . . ME! As her sponsor, i must show details of my bank statements and wage slips and evidence of accomodtaion in the UK.

Well, I don't have much money in the bank, my Thai bank, and i only earn 40,000 a month, not exactly that dependable. I don't have a residence in the UK as i have lived in Thailand for 8 years.

Now my friend in the UK is going to put us up for two weeks, i have all the money i need for expenses. He is a teacher and has his own house, he's also got a considerable amount of saved cash. Can he be the sponsor? If so, how do we get around her never having met him? There needs to be evdience of a relationship between sponsor and the sponsored. Do you know what we can do?

Do we have to have the plane ticket before the visa?

Cheers

I am looking for REAl Doner Kebab Meat anyone know where to get it in Chaing Mai all the kebabs sold seem to be falafa and chicken but not like the Doner kebab sold in Chip shops in the UK

So anyone know where I can get a real Doner Kebab

thanks in advance

I was quite fond of the donner kebab taxi rank drunken fight spilt grease night out myself. My dad used to say, "What the bloody 'ell 'ave you bin eating," in the morning.

I've never seen anything like those donners in CM, Woody's is closest but still not close. Sukhumvit bar squalor region has a few, tasty, but not the mega calorific grease hamper we all know and love. So, looks like there's a niche in the market, i will certainly be a customer of yours . . .

It seems quite natural that some Thais working in the sleaze pit of Thailand, after supressing so much anger at having to put up with incorrigible, decadent, mindless, violent - the list goes, i've been there a few times - foreigners will vent their ill feeling towards tourists when they have a chance, i.e. when they don't throw the first stone and so won't lose face.

It's easily discernible in some places, the resentment towards foreigners. Maybe if you worked in a bar - was paid peanuts - in your own country and had to put up with richer, drunker, taller foreigners with filthy mouths and hardly any respect for your culture and traditions, you might also wait for the day to give them a right kicking. I'm not accusing the Estonians of anything, just making a point that Pattaya does attract many people like this and so certain Thais are waiting for a chance to get back.

What happened is terrible . . . but sadly, it is understandable. It happnes more often than ever up here (CM) and it will keep happening. The only places i go where the old Thai smile is real is 'baan nork' . . . where we have yet to mess up, stain and tempt with gold coins. We are like a disease to them at times . . . globalisation is not welcome either, no one wants to change, but still, it won't stop happening . . . and they know they need our money, because they have come to rely on it . . . and need our western luxuries . . . they too are greedy and so like an addiction, they need us . . .but ideally - as a whole, not as singulars - we are hardly welcome by the majority, an addiction is usually not ideal . . . if it weren't for our money, we wouldnt be welcome, look at the visa stipulations, we are not welcome without cash, the provisos stuck to the office board at immigration states this.

Like i said, you need only compare this to a similar situation in your own country . . . an invasion of people with different ideals, religion, manners etc . . . shouting at you in their language that you don't understand, dragging your young girls around like dogs on a leash . . . throwing money at you to keep you quiet . . . i actually think the Thais, in general, are very tolerant . . . but maybe tolerance is just suppression and an explosion is always around the corner. I'm not making an excuse for the people that take it out on foreigners, they should know better, should adhere to some personal ethic and get over the resentment . . . but they don't and that is why this happens.

So what to do? Christ knows, ride out the wave and try and keep out of bother.

It seems quite natural that some Thais working in the sleaze pit of Thailand, after supressing so much anger at having to put up with incorrigible, decadent, mindless, violent - the list goes, i've been there a few times - foreigners will vent their ill feeling towards tourists when they have a chance, i.e. when they don't throw the first stone and so won't lose face.

It's easily discernible in some places, the resentment towards foreigners. Maybe if you worked in a bar - was paid peanuts - in your own country and had to put up with richer, drunker, taller foreigners with filthy mouths and hardly any respect for your culture and traditions, you might also wait for the day to give them a right kicking. I'm not accusing the Estonians of anything, just making a point that Pattaya does attract many people like this and so certain Thais are waiting for a chance to get back.

What happened is terrible . . . but sadly, it is understandable. It happnes more often than ever up here (CM) and it will keep happening. The only places i go where the old Thai smile is real is 'baan nork' . . . where we have yet to mess up, stain and tempt with gold coins. We are like a disease to them at times . . . globalisation is not welcome either, no one wants to change, but still, it won't stop happening . . . and they know they need our money, because they have come to rely on it . . . and need our western luxuries . . . they too are greedy and so like an addiction, they need us . . .but ideally - as a whole, not as singulars - we are hardly welcome by the majority, an addiction is usually not ideal . . . if it weren't for our money, we wouldnt be welcome, look at the visa stipulations, we are not welcome without cash, the provisos stuck to the office board at immigration states this.

Like i said, you need only compare this to a similar situation in your own country . . . an invasion of people with different ideals, religion, manners etc . . . shouting at you in their language that you don't understand, dragging your young girls around like dogs on a leash . . . throwing money at you to keep you quiet . . . i actually think the Thais, in general, are very tolerant . . . but maybe tolerance is just suppression and an explosion is always around the corner. I'm not making an excuse for the people that take it out on foreigners, they should know better, should adhere to some personal ethic and get over the resentment . . . but they don't and that is why this happens.

So what to do? Christ knows, ride out the wave and try and keep out of bother.

You can try and rationalise it or compare it with other countries problems, but this is an all time low.

I agree - Walking Street is a sleazy place.

I feel much better contributing my 25 baht a week, rather than hunting down and scrounging for the elusive free CityLife magazines in finer hotels and restaurants that I don't usually patronise.

CtyLife is essentially a magazine. The Chiangmai Mail is our ONLY newspaper. That makes it the very best there is..

Personally I prefer hunting down the elusive City Life at least then I'll be able to read something of interest about Chiang Mai.

phew, that was a lot of rubbish? why on earth should anyone support something which is below par, after all it is a business - if they want my money they better provide a service which deserve it, otherwise they'll get nada, neither silver coins or moral support.

What surprises me is that everyone complains about 'not being able to get a copy of Citylife' when all you havre to do is pay something as paltry as B500 for a whole year and ther mag comes to your door every month. You don't even need to go to their office to get this subscription, not do you need a credit card. Just call them. Could it be easier??? All the money you lot spend on food and alcohol . . . Christ . . .

One thing you should take into consideration.

Talking about local politics, criticising police, exposing gangsters/police/politicians, corruption, and all that other depressing stuff we love to read about is actually quite dangerous to write about. As farang we stand out, and with the Thai law being what it is: rubbish, then no one is going to protect the journalists. The journos are paid peanuts in this city, you earn more playing snakes and ladders with lazy Thai kids. Do you really expect journalists to risk their lives so you can have better reporting? Until there is some kind of security for journalists and they earn enough money to eat in the restaurants they so frequently laud, then i wouldn't expect to see anything great too soon. If you want to read startling exposes and cerebral political pieces, then you may want to start freelancing, i am more than sure that these publications would be happy to print your story . . .

Have you ever read the Thai local papers? The Chiang Mai mail makes them look like The Times, so in comparison, they're not that bad. Chiang Mai Mail loves its elephants and Pandas, it likes the zoo. It's love yellow and pink. It's hooked on ya ba . . . and the cops always get their man. It also enjoys unreadable economic spiel . . . but at least this is diversity. The Thai papers like blood, guns, car wrecks and tits . . . and that's it!

I like JJ's for certain things, but most of their farang baked goods are no great shakes. I can't figure out why their croisants are so much better than anywhere else in Chiang Mai and have been for something like 18 years. Most of the other places serve a heavy bread that is not flaky, but has the traditional shape of a croissant without the delicious taste and texture - even places with farang chefs. Why can't anybody else do it right?

By the way, their whole wheat sandwhich bread and muisili/granola is excellent too!

i'm telling you msn, try Mong Pearl, it's everything you are talking about. I've lived in France, eaten croissants all over the place and these are perfect.

I like JJ's for certain things, but most of their farang baked goods are no great shakes. I can't figure out why their croisants are so much better than anywhere else in Chiang Mai and have been for something like 18 years. Most of the other places serve a heavy bread that is not flaky, but has the traditional shape of a croissant without the delicious taste and texture - even places with farang chefs. Why can't anybody else do it right?

By the way, their whole wheat sandwhich bread and muisili/granola is excellent too!

It's little known by mnay farang but the croissants (hot, not to take away) at Mong Pearl Coffe shop just up from Lanna 3 after Phucome junction, are great, very tasty. So are the bacon cheese burgers.

Does anyone know where to get a good burger?

Does anybody know if the Hatton v Mayweather fight is to be televised here or any bar etc that is showing it ( in bkk ) and any idea of the time of the fight ?

In Chiang Mai we are going to watch it on Super Sports 5, an African channel. If there are any bars in BKK that have this channel then you are laughing. The bar sayus it starts at 11, but it could be different depending on the other fights before it, so i'd get there earlier.

Hi there !

I'm arriving in CM on December and will surely want to dance the nights away again ...

Can someone update me with the latest/loudest best places for hardcore ravers ?

Read this link for CM club news.

http://www.chiangmainews.com/indepth/details.php?id=1535

Where is a place that offers good prices on international flights?

How do i get there?

Are they online? Can you see their special offers on their website?

You have any contact details for PP Travel? email, telephone?

Cheers

Thanks very much for admonishing me for my arrant, and totally unecessary, use of capital letters. I hereby apologise to anyone i may have offended, if ideed you incurred any psychological injury or impairment after having to read those towering, threatening, insiduous letters i am willing to pay for my foolishness, nay, outright serlfishness. Flaggellation? Cash?

If, by any chance, i have been so negligent to commit a typo in my previous posts, i also, wholeheartedly and unreservedly apologise for this . . . well, it's got to be idleness, hasn't it . . . one would hope one wasn't a latent illiterate.

I realise - it is evident - that you are super busy and don't have the time to be editing my shoddy posts. I admire your work ethic, your assiduity, your committment, and hope that one day i might rise to meet you on your mountain top.