PaultheSeeker

There is a Pollution Department? What do they do? (You don't have to answer.)

I ride a bicycle every day in and around Bangkok, and I sometimes end up behind these buses going up an overpass (when I am in greatest need of oxygen). I can feel the particulates hitting my face. However, small trucks are dirty diesels too, and they are more numerous.

Motorcycles actually pollute as much as cars (gasoline-powered) because they have no emissions devices. I'm not even going to get into the two-stroke ones.

The government needs to implement emissions standards and testing of all vehicles. Yeah, I know it will not happen anytime this decade, but at least they could set up roadside checks to fine the smokey ones, but I guess that would just mean more revenue for the BIB.

In short, bureaucracy and corruption will lead to nothing being done, as usual. And the Pollution Department can keep surfing the net/nap all day long.

There was a report about the floods in Thailand this morning on TV5 (French international TV), and they interviewed a couple of Thai academics who said that the floods were the result of a "human error" (the water in the upcountry reservoirs was badly managed over the past months, if i understood correctly - I can't find the right words in English), compounded by the fact that Bangkok and its surroundings (they mentioned Suvarnabhumi) were built on swampy lands... They said the rainfall this year was not exceptionally high - I don't know if this is true, those of you who are in Thailand obviously know better...

I have heard the same thing from two sources; one is Thai and the other associates with many Thais. The story goes that the dams up North are normally only filled to a certain level when the rainy season is approaching so that they will be able to contain the upcoming influx of water. This year, a newly appointed person in charge overruled those with experience and kept additional water so the farmers would have enough for their rice farms. So when the typhoons hit and the water came down the rivers, the dams were too full already and they had to let water out or risk loss of the dam and a major problem. I have thrown this out to see if there is anyone who can corroborate from reliable sources. If this is true, then there is certainly blame that is warranted. If not, then it is just another rumor to fill the time while waiting for any concrete news.

See a series of articles on this topic here: Click This

snip: "The subway commuters have reached 100,000 persons daily despite flooding, he said."

Usage may be high now because so many have parked their cars on overpasses and parking garages and must use other forms of transportation (for a nice change).

snip: "The Transport Company President Wuthichart Kanlayanamit said if the bus terminal is under 50 centimetres of water, the company may consider moving its bus services to another location. (MCOT online news)"

It's a laugh a minute reading the statements of officials these days.

Be sure to stock up your first-aid kits if you haven't already.

This discussion on tides reminds me of the Thames Barrier or Venice Tide Barrier. If we had something like that, it could be closed at low tide, flood water would then drain faster during the next few hours, while the flood tide is blocked. Then, when the levels are equal during the ebb tide, the barrier would open to let the water out. The seawalls would still need to be high enough to prevent the high water levels from overflowing.

Here i hope the water will stop rising.. but i doubt it will happen soon. The real test will be 28-30 with the high tides.

What is the reason behind high tides making the flooding worse? I can understand that if the sea level is high, then there flow of the water to the sea will be less or stop.

Is there some kind of data, how high are the river levels compared to the sea level during low and high tides (full or new moon highs)?

As well as, when there is high tides, there will be low tides after 6 hours. Would that help to get rid of the excess water?

Also as Bangkok is pretty lowland, how much above sea level (standard, high tide, low tide) it actually is?

I just wish to understand what are the moving parts in this puzzle.

These coming spring tides, combined with the onrush of flood water, can reach levels higher than Bangkok's flood barriers, which are somewhere around 2.5 meters above sea level, I believe. (Note: The datums for various tide chart sources seem to be taken at different heights, as the chart I provided, and the Thai Navy's data are not the same. I would expect the datum is the mean sea level, but this seems to vary.)

Yes, the low tides help drain water out faster, but this will stop as the flood tide rises.

You can check altitudes in Google Earth.

Yes, wind can affect the water levels, as it did a couple days ago. I used to live on the southern end of the Chesapeake Bay in the US, and we got some of our highest flooding due to nor'easters blowing water in from the northeast.

The coming high tides are quite dramatic as shown on the attached graph.

Next weekend, the tides will reach over half a meter higher than those high tides we saw last week. This, combined with the incoming water from the north, may be "unstoppable", since the seawalls in some areas are already seeing near-flooding levels.

Contrary to what some "experts" on Thai Visa have said, the tides do not coincide with the full or new moon, and they are not purely sinusoidal. Study the graph, and you can see the cycles change in shape dramatically, sometimes the secondary low-tide cycles are almost skipped.

The actual link is here: 7-Day Tide Chart - Bangkok Port

So it's just a coincidence that there was a full moon last week with exceptionally high tides, and a new moon next weekend with more exceptionally high tides?

The tides are influenced by both the moon and the sun (50% effect of the moon). When they are on the opposite side (full moon) or the same side (new moon) of the earth is when they have the biggest influence.

http://www.timeandda...l?obj=moon&n=28

I was expecting this. Oh well, if you can't read the data, let me explain (yes - why bother?).

Look at the tide chart. It shows the highest coming tide on Sunday, October 30th.

Look at the lunar data you provided. The new moon occurs very early in the morning on October 27th.

Do they coincide? No. Are they related? Of course.

The same happened during the last full moon cycle.

The coming high tides are quite dramatic as shown on the attached graph.

Next weekend, the tides will reach over half a meter higher than those high tides we saw last week. This, combined with the incoming water from the north, may be "unstoppable", since the seawalls in some areas are already seeing near-flooding levels.

Contrary to what some "experts" on Thai Visa have said, the tides do not coincide with the full or new moon, and they are not purely sinusoidal. Study the graph, and you can see the cycles change in shape dramatically, sometimes the secondary low-tide cycles are almost skipped.

The actual link is here: 7-Day Tide Chart - Bangkok Port

Tide Chart.tiff

Flood Relief Operation Command ( FROC ) -- you'd be better off calling it the Flood Relief Operation Group ( FROG ) under the current circumstances, you'd stand a better chance. " Not about preferential treatment but we need to protect the economic zones " -- PM. " We have given priority to Bangkok. We must protect it " -- Justice Minister. No priority or preferential treatment there then.....Rural ecomomies don't rate the same treatment then ? These people will just be left to pick up what pieces are left, if any, and try and rebuild their lives while the economic barons will be sitting high and dry in their luxury homes and apartments . " What, the limo got flooded ? Well go and buy a new one "

You are ignoring the fact that there are millions of average folk in Bangkok as well as millions of poor people who are working their butts off, but barely keeping their heads above water.

Sure Bangkok "can make it".

Flooding in Bangkok is essentially an inconvenience to the majority of people - getting to and from the airport, cancelling a weekend away, traffic jams & wasting commuting hours to and from work, shopping, etc.

Contrast that to the plight of the 'have-nots' further North who are losing lives, homes, possessions, crops and livehood, etc and be grateful.

Your post is proof that you truly do not understand the dimension of disaster a flooding of central Bangkok would cause. You can't handle emergency services for 7.5+ million people. Every sane government would sacrifice almost everything to avoid such situation. It's not ok but it's the cruel reality it is. And we even do not have a sane government in place...

So it's a disaster if 7.5 million in Bkk are flooded, Sorry but I would say sod it, open up and let the bloody water through and out to sea, if its affected 30% of the country..how many people--ESTIMATE anyone ???........And you can't handle emergency services if they affect 20 million scattered all over the country, at least in Bkk inner city would be easier to access than 1000 km x 600 approx (north Thai),,sorry Bkk no offense-just the attention all seems to be BKK.

Official figures from yesterday (http://disaster.go.t...-eng%5B1%5D.pdf)= 2.25 Mio people affected. That's less than 33% of inner BKK, right? Got it now why they are shit scared that BKK drowns? Any idea how to supply water / food / medical care to 7.5 million? Go ahead and enlighten us and the people in charge.

ginjag didn't read the opening article very well. It states 2.25 million people being affected so far.

Yes, saving Bangkok from massive flooding (not localized or flash flooding) is a big deal. Don't forget it is the country's capital as well as its hub for commerce, communications, shipping, travel, etc. The flood-wall protected area also includes the densely-populated and hugely industrial part of Samut Prakan. There are also large slum areas that are mostly single-story and built low. These people will need help the most (in Bangkok).

Regarding that line about using bleach as a water disinfectant: This is from the Chlorox website:

Can Clorox^® Regular-Bleach be used to disinfect water?

Yes. When boiling off water for 1 minute is not possible in an emergency situation, you can disinfect your drinking water with Clorox^® Regular-Bleach as follows:

1. Remove suspended particles by filtering or letting particles settle to the bottom.

2. Pour off clear water into a clean container.

3. Add 8 drops of Clorox^® Regular-Bleach (not scented or Clorox^® Plus^® bleaches) to one gallon of water (2 drops to 1 quart). For cloudy water, use 16 drops per gallon of water (4 drops to 1 quart).

4. Allow the treated water to stand for 30 minutes. Water should have a slight bleach odor. If not, repeat and wait another 15 minutes. The treated water can then be made palatable by pouring it between clean containers several times.

River flow doesn't necessarily reverse for high tide. If the flow at the mouth slows, the river level will rise to high tide level.

I already mentioned it didn't yesterday. And the flow is strong as ever at the mouth, I'm sure. That is why the current is not reversing.

No, she - the Prime Minister herself - has not. She has not made any direct statements to the public telling the residents of Bangkok - or anywhere else - to prepare for water coming into their homes. She refuses to even declare a state of emergency while thousands of people in Central Thailand have no dry bed to sleep on and thousands of factories have been destroyed.

Snip: "The highest Chao Phraya water level was 2.27 metres above sea level at the record volume of 5,500 cubic metres per second, back in 1995, when no walls had been built. The minimum height of the dykes along the Chao Phraya is 2.5 metres, while the maximum is 3 metres in areas facing higher risk.

Is this really true? The tide tables show high tides of 2.6 meters over the next week. See them here: EasyTide Combine this with massive amounts of water from the north and the current rain we are experiencing and we may soon have a heck of a flood in Bangkok and surrounding areas.

I have been checking the river level at the seawalls around here (Phrapradaeng). Yesterday afternoon I noticed that the river current had not reversed for high tide when it should have. This may indicate the flood waters from the north are already here and are creating a stronger current than the opposing flood tide current.

The government must warn the public of the flood threat - not incite panic, of course, but tell the public to prepare. The sugar-coated statements from all these ministers is making me sick!

Snip: "There are so many factors beyond control but we will do our best," she said."

Then why aren't you warning the public to prepare for the worst? Instruct the public to stockpile food and water, elevate their belongings, park their cars in parking garages, be ready to cut their main breakers, and prepare massive shelters for those who may not have habitable homes soon.

Gemguy,

Traditional Thai houses were built that way, but, unfortunately, Thai architects have decided to throw all that knowledge out the window. Traditional Thai houses sit high on posts which not only elevate the structure to protect from flooding, but allow it to capture breezes better, help keep varmin out, control termites, store the carriage under, provide a cool place for the neighborhood dog pack, etc. The high, ventilated roofs control heat; the large overhangs keep the rain out and the sun off the walls while capturing breezes; and the lightweight wood structure does not store heat, so it cools very quickly in the evenings. Now, it seems architects design houses only for curb appeal. Everything goes against nature, especially the high thermal mass of masonry construction and the unventilated hip roofs. But this is getting off topic...

Nowadays, before a new house is built, fill dirt is brought in - raising the ground about a meter. I don't know if a meter will be high enough for this coming flood.

I live in Phrapradaeng, the "Lungs of Bangkok" - that green area just south of Bangkok. I would love to build a small house here, and if I did, it would be high up on stilts.

I see the river every day, and it has already been coming over the seawall in some places during high tides. I expect the island to become completely flooded. I live on the second floor, so I am stockpiling food and water in preparation to camp out for a while.

I witnessed the Le Raffine fire since our bicycle shop is around 300 meters away. I could not believe how long it took to extinguish the fire. Even without sprinklers, every floor has multiple fire hoses that the firemen must be able to use, especially when the fire is on the upper floors in a high-rise. Of course we now know the fire system was not pressurized. If so, I believe the fire could have been put out in twenty minutes with minimal damage.

The day after the fire, I was Googling for news about it and came across Le Raffine's own web site (in the "News" section) where they were publicizing the fact that they had held their second fire drill in conjunction with the local fire department. I can't believe it is still in their web site.

Everyone who lives or works in a high-rise should be asking their buildings' managers if their systems have been tested (I would want to see it for myself) and training provided.

In my former workplace (not in Thailand), each working group in my office (each had around a dozen people) are required to have two fire wardens - I was one. We had to have training/testing each year, with fire drills, inspections for hazards, and newsletters multiple times throughout the year. And I worked in a building only two stories tall!

I would advise office workers to train independently of your building's management if they don't want to help (and maybe threaten to leave once your lease is up). Identify/eliminate potential fire hazards, buy fire extinguishers (and know which type is good for what kind of fire), and know your escape routes and keep them clear.

My two satang...

I think they should extend the organic idea to include hotels - pesticide-free hotel rooms where people don't need to worry about dying unexpectedly.

If you actually think this is about water, you haven't been in Thailand long enough!

The new boys ( and girl ) are in town, and it's their turn now.

Exactly!! It's all about funneling money into pockets. However, one of the faces isn't new (it's a big one), and it's got plenty of expertise gained from past projects such as Swampy Airport.