Frank33

How does Thai immigration feel about the equivalent of 20,000 baht in the currency of the country a traveler just came from?

Is that acceptable to them or do they claim it is not their responsibility to know the exchange rate?

Can anyone report any personal experiences in this regard?

The reference you quote comes from an article in Phuket News. It quotes a Sungai Kolok immigration officer as saying that they are particularly strict with Laos, Vietnamese, Korean and Russians.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think South Koreans, Russians, Turks and nationals of all ASEAN countries (except Myanmar and Cambodia) have one feature in common: They are allowed a 30 days visa free entry into Thailand by air AND by land, although they do not belong to the G7 group.

Could it be that the Thai language notice posted on the website of the Immigration Bureau (as appended at the end of this post) only refers to these nationalities?

Could it be that the sudden clampdown on "farangs" in Mae Sai and Ranong is unrelated to this notice, and that the notice will not apply to them?

The wording "targeted nationalities, like Koreans" really makes me wonder.

แนวทางปฏิบัติของ สตม.ในการตรวจคนเข้าเมืองของบุคคลสัญชาติเป้าหมาย เช่น เกาหลี ฯลฯ มีดังนี้

1.ห้ามมิให้ด่านชายแดนมีการอนุญาต Out-In ในลักษณะของ Visa run เพื่อให้ได้รับสิทธิในการอยู่ในราชอาณาจักรต่อเนื่องที่มิใช่เหตุผลเพื่อการ ท่องเที่ยว

2.กรณีเดินทางโดยอากาศยานหากตรวจพบว่าอาจเป็นการ Out-In ในลักษณะของ Visa run ให้ว่ากล่าวและแนะนำให้ผู้นั้นดำเนินการขอ Visa ให้ถูกต้องตามวัตถุประสงค์ของการเข้ามาในราชอาณาจักร แล้วอนุโลมให้เข้า ตั้งแต่บัดนี้จนถึงวันที่ 12 ส.ค.57 โดยทำเครื่องหมาย O-I ไว้บริเวณรอยตราประทับ และหลังจากวันที่ 12 ส.ค.57 เป็นต้นไป หากเจ้าหน้าที่ตรวจพบเป็นการ Out-In ให้ปฏิเสธการเข้าเมืองผู้นั้น

หมายเหตุ หากผู้ปฏิบัติมีข้อสงสัยหรือพบปัญหาติดต่อ พล.ต.ต.ชิษณุพงศ์ ยุกตะทัต หรือ พล.ต.ต.ณัฐธร เพราะสุนทร รอง ผบช.สตม. แล้วแต่กรณีแนวทางปฏิบัติของ สตม.ในการตรวจคนเข้าเมืองของบุคคลสัญชาติเป้าหมาย เช่น เกาหลี ฯลฯ มีดังนี้

1.ห้ามมิให้ด่านชายแดนมีการอนุญาต Out-In ในลักษณะของ Visa run เพื่อให้ได้รับสิทธิในการอยู่ในราชอาณาจักรต่อเนื่องที่มิใช่เหตุผลเพื่อการ ท่องเที่ยว

2.กรณีเดินทางโดยอากาศยานหากตรวจพบว่าอาจเป็นการ Out-In ในลักษณะของ Visa run ให้ว่ากล่าวและแนะนำให้ผู้นั้นดำเนินการขอ Visa ให้ถูกต้องตามวัตถุประสงค์ของการเข้ามาในราชอาณาจักร แล้วอนุโลมให้เข้า ตั้งแต่บัดนี้จนถึงวันที่ 12 ส.ค.57 โดยทำเครื่องหมาย O-I ไว้บริเวณรอยตราประทับ และหลังจากวันที่ 12 ส.ค.57 เป็นต้นไป หากเจ้าหน้าที่ตรวจพบเป็นการ Out-In ให้ปฏิเสธการเข้าเมืองผู้นั้น

หมายเหตุ หากผู้ปฏิบัติมีข้อสงสัยหรือพบปัญหาติดต่อ พล.ต.ต.ชิษณุพงศ์ ยุกตะทัต หรือ พล.ต.ต.ณัฐธร เพราะสุนทร รอง ผบช.สตม. แล้วแต่กรณี

1. The new rules apply to “targeted nationalities, like Koreans etc.” (สัญชาติเป้าหมาย เช่น เกาหลี ฯลฯ), but the Immigration Bureau will not specify who they are. Who else is “like Koreans”, and what are the selection criteria for the nationalities to be targeted? Is there a list of targeted nationalities?

Yes, listed in a posted article elsewhere on ThaiVisa. They are Lao, Vietnamese, Korean and Russian.

See: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/725592-thailand-visa-missing-mh370-behind-visa-run-crackdown-fingerprints-next/

And once again, no clear answer to the 64,000 baht question: what specifically constitutes out and in? Same hour return to Thailand? Same day return? Same month return? Returning to Thailand ever, at any time in the future...?

The new rules regarding visa free entry, in force since 10 May 2014, are lacking some basic specifics and are therefore open to interpretation.

The new rules constitute a nation-wide formalization and radicalization of the “three times only” whim of minor officials at certain land border crossings.

The new rules have substituted this unlawful whim by an official policy issued at the highest level. The essential philosophy of this policy is: “No visa free entry at all for frequent visitors”.

Any visa free entry shall be refused if it can be seen as an “out/in with visa run characteristics” (การ Out-Inในลักษณะของ Visa run).

For the time being, only land border crossings are affected. However, from 12 August 2014, the policy will be extended to visa free entries by air.

The Thai language instructions issued to immigration staff contain two major ambiguities:

1. The new rules apply to “targeted nationalities, like Koreans etc.” (สัญชาติเป้าหมาย เช่น เกาหลี ฯลฯ), but the Immigration Bureau will not specify who they are. Who else is “like Koreans”, and what are the selection criteria for the nationalities to be targeted? Is there a list of targeted nationalities?

2. The new rules apply to “out/in with visa run characteristics” (การ Out-Inในลักษณะของ Visa run), but the Immigration Bureau will not clarify what constitutes an “out/in with visa run characteristics”. Specifically, for how long does a person need to be out of the country before a visa free entry ceases to fall into this category? One day? One month? Ten years?

I expect that the Immigration Bureau will not clarify these ambiguities and thereby give license to their subaltern desk staff to act according to their individual temper of the day.

12th August further restrictions

Today the Immigration Bureau has posted the following notice, confirming the new regulations and upcoming changes to the regulations:

แนวทางปฏิบัติของ สตม.ในการตรวจคนเข้าเมืองของบุคคลสัญชาติเป้าหมาย เช่น เกาหลี ฯลฯ มีดังนี้

1.ห้ามมิให้ด่านชายแดนมีการอนุญาต Out-In ในลักษณะของ Visa run เพื่อให้ได้รับสิทธิในการอยู่ในราชอาณาจักรต่อเนื่องที่มิใช่เหตุผลเพื่อการ ท่องเที่ยว

2.กรณีเดินทางโดยอากาศยานหากตรวจพบว่าอาจเป็นการ Out-In ในลักษณะของ Visa run ให้ว่ากล่าวและแนะนำให้ผู้นั้นดำเนินการขอ Visa ให้ถูกต้องตามวัตถุประสงค์ของการเข้ามาในราชอาณาจักร แล้วอนุโลมให้เข้า ตั้งแต่บัดนี้จนถึงวันที่ 12 ส.ค.57 โดยทำเครื่องหมาย O-I ไว้บริเวณรอยตราประทับ และหลังจากวันที่ 12 ส.ค.57 เป็นต้นไป หากเจ้าหน้าที่ตรวจพบเป็นการ Out-In ให้ปฏิเสธการเข้าเมืองผู้นั้น

หมายเหตุ หากผู้ปฏิบัติมีข้อสงสัยหรือพบปัญหาติดต่อ พล.ต.ต.ชิษณุพงศ์ ยุกตะทัต หรือ พล.ต.ต.ณัฐธร เพราะสุนทร รอง ผบช.สตม. แล้วแต่กรณี

Interesting detail:

In the first sentence, the immigration staff is asked to implement measures 1. and 2. towards TARGETED NATIONALITIES (e.g. KOREANS): บุคคลสัญชาติเป้าหมาย เช่น เกาหลี ฯลฯ. South Koreans currently receive a 1 month visa free stay when entering by air and a 15 days visa free entry when entering by land.

Measure 1. appears to prohibit a repeated "OUT-IN" visa free entry BY LAND (for the targeted nationalities, which ones others apart from Koreans?) altogether.

Measure 2. refers to repeated "OUT-IN" visa free entry by air. Until 12 August the travellers in question will receive a mark "O-I" next to their entry stamp and are being advised to get a visa next time. After 12 August, "OUT-IN" visa free entries by air will no longer be allowed

I think you misinterpreted the reference to Koreans here. They are under a bilateral agreement, so the 30-15 days visa exempt don't apply to them.

Koreans are specifically mentioned in the Thai language text issued by the Immigration Bureau as an example for the “targeted nationalities”

The bilateral agreement between Thailand and South Korea stipulates that South Koreans get a 30 days visa free stay in Thailand.

(You can check this in “Visa policy of Thailand” on Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_policy_of_Thailand)

Quote from Wikipedia:

The following countries are granted visa free travel to Thailand for a period of up to 30 days. Arriving by air gives a stay of 30 days.

Arriving overland gives a stay of 15 days. (Except countries with special waivers)

† Citizens of countries that have bilateral agreements on visa waiving with Thailand are allowed to stay 30 days.

(such as South Korea)

12th August further restrictions

Today the Immigration Bureau has posted the following notice, confirming the new regulations and upcoming changes to the regulations:

แนวทางปฏิบัติของ สตม.ในการตรวจคนเข้าเมืองของบุคคลสัญชาติเป้าหมาย เช่น เกาหลี ฯลฯ มีดังนี้

1.ห้ามมิให้ด่านชายแดนมีการอนุญาต Out-In ในลักษณะของ Visa run เพื่อให้ได้รับสิทธิในการอยู่ในราชอาณาจักรต่อเนื่องที่มิใช่เหตุผลเพื่อการ ท่องเที่ยว

2.กรณีเดินทางโดยอากาศยานหากตรวจพบว่าอาจเป็นการ Out-In ในลักษณะของ Visa run ให้ว่ากล่าวและแนะนำให้ผู้นั้นดำเนินการขอ Visa ให้ถูกต้องตามวัตถุประสงค์ของการเข้ามาในราชอาณาจักร แล้วอนุโลมให้เข้า ตั้งแต่บัดนี้จนถึงวันที่ 12 ส.ค.57 โดยทำเครื่องหมาย O-I ไว้บริเวณรอยตราประทับ และหลังจากวันที่ 12 ส.ค.57 เป็นต้นไป หากเจ้าหน้าที่ตรวจพบเป็นการ Out-In ให้ปฏิเสธการเข้าเมืองผู้นั้น

หมายเหตุ หากผู้ปฏิบัติมีข้อสงสัยหรือพบปัญหาติดต่อ พล.ต.ต.ชิษณุพงศ์ ยุกตะทัต หรือ พล.ต.ต.ณัฐธร เพราะสุนทร รอง ผบช.สตม. แล้วแต่กรณี

Interesting detail:

In the first sentence, the immigration staff is asked to implement measures 1. and 2. towards TARGETED NATIONALITIES (e.g. KOREANS): บุคคลสัญชาติเป้าหมาย เช่น เกาหลี ฯลฯ. South Koreans currently receive a 1 month visa free stay when entering by air and a 15 days visa free entry when entering by land.

Measure 1. appears to prohibit a repeated "OUT-IN" visa free entry BY LAND (for the targeted nationalities, which ones others apart from Koreans?) altogether.

Measure 2. refers to repeated "OUT-IN" visa free entry by air. Until 12 August the travellers in question will receive a mark "O-I" next to their entry stamp and are being advised to get a visa next time. After 12 August, "OUT-IN" visa free entries by air will no longer be allowed

softly in thai is ---BOW BOW ????? CAREFUL IS RAWANG [LONG ] NOTE THE SHORT RAWANG IS BETWEEN ----

"softly, gently" is not pronounced "bow" (like in BOW and arrow), but ba-o

"be careful": rawang

regarding the long and short "rawang" the opposite is the case.

the "short" rawang means "be careful" ระวัง

the "long" rawaaaaaang means "between" ระหว่าง

1) I have a guy I take pictures to get framed. I have two pieces of artwork and the art is actually a design made from butterfly wings. How do I tell him "be careful" "handle gently" "this is fragile."

2) How do I tell the foot massage ladies to not rub my feet so darn hard? How do I say "gently please" "not too hard"

Thanks...if you want to suggest full sentences that fine as I can speak some thai so I don't need to speak in fragments.

Two different scenarios and am curious if the words are at all the same...

The quoted sentences translate and are pronounced as follows:

1) ระวังหน่อยนะ มันเปราะบาง

Rawang noi na, man prabang

Be careful, it is very thin

2) นวดเบาๆ อย่าใช้แรงมา

Nuad bao bao, ya chai raeng maak

Massage gently, do noit use too much force

Careful = rawang

Gently = bao bao

The first sentence is more correctly translated as

1) ระวังหน่อยนะ มันเแตกง่าย

Rawang noi na, man taek ngai

Be careful, it is fragile

In both situations, simply saying “rawang, bao bao” would be adequate

The quoted sentences are pronounced and translate as follows

1) ระวังหน่อยนะ มันเปราะบาง

rawang noi na, man prabang

be careful (the rest does not make any sense to me, must be google translate)

2) นวดเบาๆ อย่าใช้แรงมา

nuad bao bao ya chai reng ma

please massagegently, do not use too much force

"be careful" is simply "rawang"

"do it gently" is simply "bao bao"

A US citizen will get 30 days at a land border.

 

There is no official limit, but some checkpoint will in practice limit the number of entries if by land.

The "90 days within 180 days only" rule was abolished in 2008. Since then, there is no limitation on how much time foreigners (of certain nationalities) can spend in Thailand on visa free entries, or on how many times they can enter.

The regulation currently applicable (national police order 778/2551 of 25 Nov. 2008) expressly states that foreigners may enter "multiple times".

Do you know of any specific incidents or checkpoints where foreigners have been refused visa free entry by land, on the ground that in the opinion of the local immigration staff, they come "too often"?

Very recently, there have been 4 bomb blasts at the two border crossings accessible from Songkhla, in which 1 person was killed and many more injured. In both Sadao (Dan Nawk) and Padang Besar (the two immigration check points) the police stations were attacked. The other bombs exploded next to McDonalds and in a lane next to a hotel frequented by tourists, damaging the hotel very extensively and injuring.many people. Following the attacks, the Sadao (Dan Nawk) border crossing became largely devoid of visitors, people being afraid to come.

Also in Songkhla town itself bombs have exploded outside two 7-11 shops a while ago. The separatists want to make a point also in the vicinity of the actual area of conflict.

In Songkhla, there are a few farang oil workers, but apart from them hardly anyone understands any English. For any decent shopping facilities, one has to commute to Hat Yai, one hour away on the bus. It’s a nice destination for a weekend, but staying there long term would be extremely boring.

it doesn't mention the 30 day transit stamp in the txt of this article. Is this another misleading headline?

Yes. The headline "No more free 30 days on arrival entries planned" is not part of the original article and is completely misleading. Read the actual article and disregard the headline for getting at the facts.

What free visas?

The ones that may be issued following a decision of the Thai Foreign Ministry

Many of us have completely misunderstood the contents of this article. The Immigration Bureau does not intend to abolish visa free entry for the nationals of 17 of the most affluent countries.

The misunderstanding is due to the misleading header “No more 30 days on arrival entries planned” added by thaivisa.com. The original headline says “Foreign Ministry asked to rethink free visa fee decision”.

My interpretation of the article is this:

The Foreign Ministry has decided to scrap the visa fees for these 17 countries. This decision would be entirely consistent with their policy to improve the rules for visa free entry by land (now 30 days instead of 15) for a number of affluent countries, which was implemented a few weeks ago.

The Immigration Bureau opposes the decision about scrapping the visa fees for the 17 countries listed above and wants it reversed.

Since when are Akha opium growers abused refugees?

Since when are prostitutes impoverished and destitute?

I'm sure you would not have found any excuses for David Crisp if he had beaten to death Awe Ye Piang for not cleaning up those dirty dishes ...

I don't know about the re-entry permit, but there is a new development regarding the trip from Tachilek to Kengtung.

I crossed from Mae Sai into Tachilek on 14/12/09, with the intention to travel on to Kengtung. For many years this trip used to be possible with a 14 days stay permit issued in Tachilek (10 $).

The immigration staff in Tachilek asked me where I wanted to go, and when I named Kengtung and Mongla, they referred me to the semi-governmental “Myanmar Travels & Tours (MTT)” office next to the immigration checkpoint. MTT told me that due to new government regulations issued very recently, I could not go on to Kengtung without a “guide”. I was allowed to catch a share taxi or a bus, but I needed to be accompanied by a “guide” (1000 baht per day). The explanations of the MTT staff were somewhat ambivalent and their English not fully comprehensible, but I gathered that I would not get rid of the “guide” on arrival in Kengtung, but had to pay for his hotel bills and meals throughout the duration of my stay. I did not like the idea of being allocated a minder who would follow me around and be leeching of me all the way, therefore I decided to abort the project, stay a night in Tachilek and return to Thailand.

I reckon that this change in regulations for tourists is an overreaction to the troubles in the last few months with the Wa and Kokang near the Chinese border. There certainly are no security issues (i.e. lack of government control) in Kengtung itself or on the way there from Tachilek. Prior to any travel plans for Kengtung or Mongla, I would advise people to check carefully whether the requirements for the guide services of MTT are still in place.

The crucial point is whether 778/2551 repeals and supersedes 608/2549. I cannot read Thai but the third (unnumbered) paragraph of 778/2551 seem to make a reference to 608/2549 and quote text from paragraph 3 of 608/2549. What does it say there?

--

Maestro

The paragraph translates as follows:

The regulations of article 3 of Police Order 608/2549 issued on 8 September 2006 are being suspended and replaced by the following:

I guess Tropo is right, and we should not attach too much importance to theories voiced by travel agencies, but rather learn from real life experiences of other visa runners - many questions can be answered by looking at postings on this site.

In the good old days I did not bother with Thai tourist visas at all. I was living for two years continuously in the far south of Thailand, popping over the border to Malaysia once a month to get another 30 days exemption.

Since 2006 of course the equation has changed, and we are limited to a total of 90 days visa free stay within 6 months. Has anyone of you guys lived in Thailand continuously since the rules changed in 2006, alternating between tourist visas and visa free stays? Or do the Thai embassies/consulates in neighbouring countries get exasperated with people aiming for this loophole?

Frank33

My recent visit to Vientiane answered the question: Although I had a red stamp from Penang in my passport ("don't apply at consulate Penang again") I was issued with a tourist visa in Vientiane. I don't know whether this is a factor, but before applying in Vientiane I had been 2 1/2 months outside Thailand, travellling in Cambodia, Vietnam and Laos.

Frank33

Visa run to Cambodia: Stranded at the border? Sent back to Pattaya?

Some people had problems doing the border run to Cambodia with Pattaya based travel agencies. The newspaper "Pattaya People" featured in its issue of 14 June 2008 the following reader's letter:

"….

Here's my personal experience: My girlfriend and I went on what was supposed to be a successful "Visa Run" to Cambodia, offered by a Pattaya based company. The guide – if we can call her that - promised that everything would be OK and we coughed up 4,000 baht for that early morning ride earlier this week.

Sadly, upon reaching the Cambodian border, a few "farangs" – including myself – found ourselves battling international visa rules and regulations. The result, we had to return to Pattaya on expired visas and to overstay – at a cost of 500 baht per day as a penalty!

….

Regards, HAN"

Unfortunately, HAN does not tell us his recent immigration history (how often has he been on the visa run already?) and the reason given at the border for sending him back. I will go on the visa run soon and I have consulted several Pattaya travel agencies, presenting them with my entry/exit history since February last year:

1) 2 weeks in Thailand on 30 days pass.

2) 1 month in Burma.

3) 2 months in Thailand on Tourist visa.

4) 3 months in Malaysia, Indonesia and Singapore

5) 3 months in Thailand on Tourist visa plus extension

6) 3 months in Thailand on Tourist visa plus extension.

7) 3 months in Cambodia, Vietnam and Laos

8) 2 months in Thailand on Tourist visa.

From 3 different travel agencies I got 3 different opinions:

1) I can now do the border run to a neighbouring country THREE times and obtain a 30 days visa free stay on each occasion (Malaysia being the best option, as farangs do not need a Malaysian visa, and as I plan to relocate to Southern Thailand anyway).

2) It is obligatory to get a visa extension first, and after that I can do only TWO border runs to a neighbouring country, as the 30 days extension on a tourist visa counts as a 30 days visa free stay (!).

3) The travel agency provides transport to the Cambodian border, and would charge me for the return journey only. I would pay for the Cambodian visa myself, as they cannot guarantee that the border run will be successful.

WHOM TO BELIEVE? When Thai immigration grants a 30 days visa free stay (farangs are entitled to a total of 90 days visa free stay within 6 months), do they take into consideration any time spent on tourist visas and EXTENSIONS? The opinion of travel agency number 2) would suggest that they do!

Does anyone have any personal experience to contradict them?

Regards

Frank33

I have been staying in Pattaya for six months on two successive tourist visas plus extensions. When I applied for the second tourist visa the Penang consulate adorned my passport with the red rubber stamp "don't apply again".

One travel agent in Soi Post Office is confident that I would get another tourist visa in Vientiane. Another travel agent says that there is no point applying.

Whom shall I believe ? Did any of you guys ever get a tourist visa in Vientiane after having a red stamp from Penang in his passport?

Regards

frank 33

Third tourist visa in Penang - Don't ever come again ???

I just collected my tourist visa at the Penang consulate, and it was adorned with the rubber stamps "Do not apply new visa at Penang again" and "The holder has traveled to Thailand with Tourist visa 2 times. The Consulate General may not accept the application next time".

I had two previous tourist visas, one issued in Rangoon in February, and one in KL in August, but I had not been staying in Thailand continuously. In fact my travel history has been as follows:

1) 2 weeks in Thailand on 30 days pass.

2) 1 month in Burma.

3) 2 months in Thailand on Tourist visa.

4) 3 months in Malaysia, Indonesia and Singapore

5) 3 months in Thailand on Tourist visa plus extension.

Does anyone have a guess how long I will have to be outside Thailand before a Thai embassy or consulate will issue me with another tourist visa? Or will they even expect me to show that I have returned "home" (i.e. to the country that has issued my passport) before they issue a new tourist visa? What are my chances if I turn up at the Penang consulate in 50 years time ?

My future travel plans would be as follows:

6) 1 week in Penang.

7) 2 months in Thailand on Tourist visa (already obtained in Penang)

8) 3 months in Cambodia, Vietnam and Laos

9) Hopefully return to Thailand on tourist visa issued in Vientiane.

Given this travel history, what is the Thai embassy in Vientiane going to say when I turn up there in April 2008 and ask for a tourist visa? Are they going to shoot me?

Best regards

Frank