didivolk

You must be total stupid are you ??

Chamlong getting arrested has certainly brought all the wacko's out again to beat their pathetic drum over and over again. Same old rhetoric, rubbish and ravings most of which doesn't make much sense.

PAD might not be the final answer but it certanly beats the current alternative by a long shot.

My ass millions of 'PAD' supporters . Where do u live ???? Millions of 'PPP' and still big T supporters yes.

Like it or not. All of the Farangs here are from 'democratic' countries. How you can write all this crap and clap hands for right wing thugs like 'PAD' . Watch 'Sonthis ATV'. Disgusting.

Pierrot,

Huh?

Where are you getting these ideas and opinions?

Why is it over for the PAD?

What makes you think Prem 'sanctioned' any deal?

What makes you think the current government is here to stay?

Though it does appear that the army did not follow Samak's orders, what makes you think the police are not doing as the current government asks?

etc etc etc

I can see several reasons for the most recent events and I have NO CLUE as to the validity of any of those thoughts.

1) This works to PAD's benefit to escalate things because since Samak's demise on the political scene things had stagnated.

2) The PPP thought that removing the bosses of the PAD from daily contact with the crowds that they would dissipate (truly silly thinking)

What a lot who support the government miss is that it is not really about the demo in GH but about the millions of sympathsiers all over the country that PAD has. How do the government bring these people back into the fold? Certainly the politcal charges like treason just work the other way. You can get away with politically intimidating opponents through charges but the charges must be criminal and not politcal in nature for this to work. Charges like treason just stir opponents up. It will be intereting to see how the courts handle this.

The other thing that a lot miss is that in a pluralistic democracy everybody including minorites need to accept the rules for the game to work. Pluralistic democracies virtually always return a government from a minority of the electorate (for example PPP gained 41% of the 70% turnout) for this to work the government once elcted has to accept that it now acts for all the people and not just those who voted for it and that they must protect minorities. In return those who voted for the losing side accepts the winning of a government elected by a minority of the electroate, and vice versa. Right now the problem is the government never accept that they represent anyone than those who voted for them and a lot of those that didnt vote for them wont accept them as the government. It is not helped by the truly horrible cabinets and utter ineptmness of the recent governments either, and of course the horribly low esteem in which politicans are held - somewhere under drug addicts, whores and thieves.

May I change that a little bit

There is just the educated greedy upper class against (a corrupt ?) legal government. 'PAD' Party of anti Democrats as a fore front. Vote buying my ass. The ' PAD' pays serious money for the sit in.

Chamlong's got the guns, Money, and right-wing ultra-nationalist Thai-Chinese PAD behind him and is undoubtedly being well taken care of at the moment. No need to shed tears for the man...

"Thai-Chinese PAD"? --- am I missing something? Wasn't it Thaksin that is Thai Chinese? Perhaps you mean urban,educated Thais

The "Sons of Chinese" have never been fans of Thaksin and have most recently aligned themselves with the right-wing ultra-nationalist PAD elitists.

Thaksin is Chinese, Samak is, Somchai is, have a look at PPP, many have chinese descent.

Chamlong, Sondhi as well.

There is no Chinese against Thais Nationalism. There is just the educated middle class against a corrupt illegal government. Meanwhile also joined by many other groups of the society, like most of the southern people, labor unions, academics farmers, etc etc.. Sure you'll also find there right wing, left wing, nationalists, monarchist, beside PPP fans you'll find almost everything there.

Well done bit dry.

perm_dis ---

can you try that again? I couldn't make out what you were trying to say ... seriously!

regarding your final statement, when the politicians break down the checks and balances and change the laws and even the country's charter at will, well law has no value at all.

where to begin? what is your standard of knowledge? i will try PAD style education.

Chamlong Srimuang, the now arrested moralist is a former teacher and mentor of Thaksin. Chamlong has a vision full of highest moral and ethics, he want instill that to the people, or let's say dictate everybody the right and wrongs. chamlong dharma sect ideas include that do-good, all for the nation and strong leadership as role model with strong power to install the better morals. as good leader was thaksin choosen (chamlong proxy) dharma acts have been one tamboon - one product, the "social order" campaign, devotion to the nation, thaksin, the "good leader", ask his people to hold vegetarian diet weeks to clean the body. the propaganda, thaksin the family man, thaksin always smile, pictures of him everywhere, dharma brainwash of the "good leader". and all people together. all the grass root people have taken part.

but thaksin was also a business man, semi liberal. to liberal for chamlong. he change his horse and became PAD cult muppet player. the idea of the good is now called "New Politics" still irrational becaused the believe in "good leadership". such ideas will fail sooner or later, a ideal state ruled by philosophers, wise persons who accepts the power thrust upon him by the people who are wise enough to choose a good master (Plato) doesn't work. a unfree closed society that leads to totalitarianism (Popper).

"The ability to vote a bad government out of office is enough. That is democracy"(Popper) politicans can become corrupt. control them, don't give them to much power. minimize the state, privatisation, let the people the power of choice (Friedman) to choose by themself what is good for them. and not dictated by "Thinkers" like Chamlong. to cancel corruption the Milton Friedman motto: 'trying to do good with spending other people's money on other people doesn't work' fits here well. i am not recommending to install the whole "Friedman" here, but that is a direction to go and not the opposite way like "New Politics" is dreaming of.

do-gooders go home, if you come out with a mob, swinging clubs, disturb the urban peace, the political and social freedom, because you ego head think to know how to do-better - you go to jail.

anyway, thank you for the show.

about what point and paragraph of a junta constitution, the miitary the country's charter, you wanna nutpicking?

Topic is Chamlong, does he have any good offer?......seriously!

Well thanks for clearing that up for us then.

What shall I say dear?

No complaints here. It should of been done a long time ago. Ex-generals who entice coups and want appointed governments dont deserve the right to be free. Let him rot in jail with the rest of the PAD hate provoking leadership, although I doubt he will ever stay there for long...

Nearly right my dear . But the so called 'PAD' is a forefront of the rich and powerful. And the rich and powerful want to stay rich and powerful . But they are stupid (not the rural population). They should look around the more 'democratic' a nation is the better off the people are (also the rich and powerfu ).

The PAD is neither for democracy nor good government; the PAD right-wing ultra-nationalist elitists are for themselves, it's fairly simple, really.

My goodness.

What constitution??? A rewritten one to get away with treason and to weaken the political system. Whatever u think about Thaksin, that is a fact. The people just agreed (the stupid rural

people ) for not o get a worse one. I know that, been there seen it all (16 y between the stupid farmers ). And I tell u what, a hard working farmer anyday instead of the self proclaimed elite who know it all.

(mostly to fill their pockets ). But if your wisdom comes from the 'Nation or Bangkok Post', congratulations .

Well this is indeed interesting......and yet no one has even mentioned the underlying reason for the sudden arrests.

1. The PPP wishes to change the constitution to remove most of the Monarchy power....(a long time goal of Thaskin)

2. Once they have assumed the center of power, amnesty is a sure bet for Thaskin et al.

3. A new court verdict is due to be announced against Taskin et al on Oct 21 or 22. This will result in a long jail sentence being handed down, plus more time for his wife.

The PPP is about to have another ruling to outlaw this party, so time to get buisness finished before another reshuffle.

This is corruption running completly out of control.

Until the leaders of the past/present corrupt government are placed in jail for their criminal acts (which is currently unknown in Thailand), there is little hope of stopping buisness as ususal. As with the Samak case, as well as the previous case where senteces where handed down to Pojiman and her relitives, and the famous case of the chocate gift to sweeten the attitude of the judiciary that resulted in some more relitives and supporters of the Thaskin clan to be placed immedatly in jail, the court has finally found out what it means to have some power.

I wish them all the best. It is time for a house cleaning.

Great Post.

I only want to add. Not the PAD maybe as a whole . But Sonhti is a bankrupt corrupt thug which has only his only revenge and interest at heart. He gives a shit for this country (as a lot of this Chinese do ) Chamlong the same . Brothers in crime just met . True colours they have shown it. If they were NAZI (same style watch that disgusting ASTV ) they could wear brown .

I though we all deserve a chance to show our true colours

My brother in law and my self have totaly different ideas and you could say we re like chalk and cheese

The 1st thing we need to do is give him a chance to show his true side

If the government goes on a direct course to save Thaskin then we will see how he's feathered

Maybe just maybe he has his country at heart

Only time will tell

Maybe I am a dreamer

Very sensible post. Yes, everybody deserves a chance to show their true colours. (which I am pretty sure, we will see soon)

If he "goes on a direct course to save Thaskin", he will be more than feathered...he will most likely be tarred and feathered.

There is nothing wrong with dreaming... Someone once said "I have a dream" and today, we have a black man nominated by the Democratic Party of the US, to run for President of the United States.

You are dreaming along with some other great people, such as John Lennon, Martin Luther King, Donald Neal Walsh, so don't stop dreaming

Actually not!

At a population of 65 Million Thais, not everybody deserves a chance to show how corrupt he might be (or not) as premier. There is simply no time (and money) for it.

Where do you send contributions to P.A.D. ?

I'm really tired of this vote buying shit . Happens I worked in Bangkok (not as a teacher for lousy salary and hate for Thaksin) . Live in the country side. Every body takes what he get's. From PPP, Democrats, Sonthi whoever ( the real money is with the so called middle class). Then they go to the ballot box and elect who cares for them. (for what ever reason).

I and they wouldn't care who is on top. Stop that thugs (Sonthi, Chamlong and cohorts) and get the economy back on track .

Well, the peopleactually elected Samak, and Thaksin before that with a fairly large margin.

Problem is I don't think PPP was elected with a large margin. Only about 37% of the electorate voted for them. This is one of PAD's arguments.

and how much would it be without vote buying? 30 %? 25 %?

Like in sport, no body remenber who won the silver. Even if he/she missed it by just a split second.

And if ??? If somebody put hat Thugs Sonthi and leader Cohorts in jail for live

(Where they belong). Problems solved

Oh well its no more velvet curtain on the PPP side. It is now out in the open and official. Thaksin is really running the show

The fun begins

I think you should rethink. The economy was just fine before the bankrupt media mogul started his revenge crusade. How some informed foreigner can be on the side of Sonthi and cohorts beats me.

Friendly regards Didi

LOS=Land of Stupid (people) should be the new motto of the Samak or Somchai led government.

A government led by arrogant, stupid thieves and idiots. (and their relatives)

You ain't seen nothin yet! Here comes the violence whether it be Somchai or Samak.

This year the high season will be non existant and it may continue that way for years.

How ever allegedly corrupt a former leader was. ??????

How somebody with a little bit of brain can be of the side of a bankrupt billionair which runs 24/7 propaganda on his ASTV . NO one opinion how to solve anything only NAZI style shouting and blackmailing.

Peaceful protesting my goodness. Clearly he an his companions want to get rid (they say so openly )of a whatever good or bad functioning democracy for the good of a 'elite" dictatorship .

But if you want to be on that side of the fence, good luck. But once they reach their goals they might stop paying the daily wage for protesting.

By the way: never liked Samak (thought bit old for that business ) but any time, better then that PAD leaders

Sad times.

Just ask yourself if this were your own country and the goverment which was in power was saturated with corruption and was'nt prepared to bring an ex leader to justice even though he had ripped off millions of tax payers money. Which side of the fence would you be on?

Dear Khun Korn

Whoever and for whatever reasons sides with Sonthi L. disqualifies himself.

Not much to add. The party name of the oldest Thai party should be changed to 'Undemocratic'. You (they) caused partly the mess we are in now. If you excuse the PAD nobody can help you. When and if there is a new election you will see. The Thai people at a whole are not as stupid as you and the so called middle class think they are.

What a bunch of worthless thugs. God, they remind me of football hooligans.

If you think they look like football hooligans than there most be something wrong with your eyes.

Please read the following article, maybe it helps you understand the PAD. The real hooligans are in the government.

SHADOW BOXING

Without ethics, there simply is no hope

KORN CHATIKAVANIJ

Last week the gloves came off between the Finance Minister and his Shadow (me). This has nothing to do with the success of our boxers in Beijing (though when is it that we will win two golds?) but more because in my opinion the Minister crossed the line into the indefensible. Queensbury Rules just will not do with this man.

As he said himself in Parliament, unless and until the jail door is slammed shut, everything is to be considered decent and acceptable.

I am, of course, referring to the political interference in the appointments of the Bank of Thailand (BoT) and the Securities Commission (SEC) Boards - as well as the subsequent Stock Exchange Board appointments. All stuffed with questionable individuals chosen by even more questionable political cronies who, I believe, are mostly either illegally conflicted or are individuals facing charges of corruption against the State. All this is compounded by a Cabinet resolution during the week to appoint a crony to the board of the Department of Special Investigations (DSI) - the same crony who was chairman of SC Asset, the Shinawatra property company in the middle of perhaps the biggest outstanding criminal charge against the ex-prime minister - a charge filed by, wait for it, the DSI, of course.

Moreover, the Office of the Attorney-General will not file charges yet - the OAG wants more evidence from the DSI and the SEC. Is the attorney-general now more or less likely to receive cooperation?

I wish I could just move on.

I feel like I've been working these cases for most of my political career so far. I so look forward to the day when we can open a newspaper and not have to read about the ex-prime minister again.

I and, I am sure, most of the readers of this newspaper are fed up with the fact that we cannot move on. The trouble is, of course, we either let them all get away with insulting the lot of us, or we stand and fight - if necessary without gloves.

I, for one, can no longer help it; I am trapped. As long as they chose to cynically subvert our beliefs as to what is right and proper, then we need to stand up to them.

I thought it was bitterly ironic that Khun Thaksin is begging for sympathy in the UK by citing his wish to resign his Manchester City chairmanship in order to protect the club's reputation given the charges made against him in Thailand. Why is he concerned with Man City's honour and yet completely unabashed when it comes to the honour of Thailand's own institutions?

Based on the same rationale, why is Thaksin not requiring his acolytes to resign from positions of prime minister and minister, given criminal charges against them? Perhaps he cares more about Man City than Thailand itself? Or is he merely acknowledging higher ethical requirements in the UK compared with Thailand?

Indeed, the Finance Minister said in response to my challenge to him last week in Parliament that we must not use individual beliefs to judge what is right - and that we must simply abide by the law.

Putting aside the fact that he seems not to be bothered by his boss running away from justice to London, I cannot accept that kind of rationalisation from someone who is a leader of our country.

After all, what is the law if not an attempt to frame our collective beliefs of acceptable, ethical behaviour into civil code?

While one may argue about the existence of absolute rights and wrongs, one cannot argue that laws cannot cover every aspect of proper ethical behaviour.

In short, the Finance Minister is asking us to suspend our ethics and merely resort to conforming with the law. That is not the kind of leadership Thailand needs.

I would indeed argue that above all, what we need today is not more crowd pleasing policies, but leaders setting solid examples of good behaviour. I am not even being simply righteous - I have absolutely no doubt that it would be good business.

What is the fundamental problem of our economy today? It is "trust" and through that, confidence. I am stating the obvious that through confidence comes investment, consumption and everything that goes towards making our economy vibrant.

The fact that our Finance Minister chooses to ignore this means that we have no chance - and I mean it absolutely - we have no chance of doing better than the cyclical movements of the prices of our exports allow us.

I've just heard a report that a very well-known multinational had decided to co-invest with a local company chiefly because it learnt that, in spite of all the opportunities, the local company had treated them with exemplary fairness. How many international firms had come to me when I was an investment banker asking if I could introduce them to Siam Cement? Was it because Siam Cement followed the law? Sure, but much more than that, they knew of the company's reputation for high ethical standards - meaning that even if there was no law, Siam Cement could be expected to do the right thing. This meant Siam Cement always had first choice of all the best potential partners. As I said, it's good business.

The Finance Minister also spoke of "Rights". He was saying that the individuals he chose for these top positions have the right to be selected because they have not yet been conclusively proven guilty. Again, this is disingenuous. They may have rights, but the Minister has Duty. He has the duty to protect the institutions that he oversees to ensure that they continue to be respected and trusted so that they can perform the role expected of them. He needs to understand the concept of the greater good. It is not as if he has to choose the people he does - there are plenty of equally capable individuals whose appointment would not tarnish the reputation of the institutions.

All this is particularly sad when one considers that both the Bank of Thailand and the SEC have regulations that would bar those appointed to their boards (through the Minister's process) from having anything to do with the companies that these two institutions regulate.

How do you answer to that? If I didn't miss-hear him, I think the Minister is actually suggesting that these regulations be amended. He even blamed the whole problem on the Constitution!

I meet people in the world of finance and banking who ask me if there is anything that can be done. The answer is, at the first instance, that we need to alert the public as to what is going on.

However, with this administration, this will achieve little as there is no sense of shame. We are dealing with a political party which has promised to vote back the Prime Minister if he is to be forced to step down as a result of a potential ruling of conflict of interest in his TV cooking show.

As I mentioned earlier, short of putting them behind bars, there appears to be no stopping them, at least not until there is another general election, and until then, we may also need to throw away the key.

Korn Chatikavanij is Shadow Finance Minister.

Email: [email protected]

This is an excellent article from the increasingly frustrated Dem perspective explaining the context of why the PAD are suddenly back. Thaksin left. Talk of gang Of Four defecting. Divisons in PPP. Arrest warrants in various toilets. Thaksin reasserts authority. Revenuegate, DSI committee packed with cronies. BoT committee packed with cronies. Warnings from above aboyut sepnding th country into bankruptcty. PAD unleashed today. Military reshuffle imminent. These things do not happen in isolation. The stakes are getting higher.

What would be intersting today would be a fly on the wall of Samak and the army boys. The PAD are on the streets storming government places. Samak has to go to the military to check his back and work out an acceptable reaction. What does he have to promise today to ensure his back is really still covered. Put it in the context of the above.

This is Sonthi. PAD-TV never seen such bull . They changed the fat and ugly girls to more attractive ones. Maybe my request??? But the bull they talking is just the same.

Live video feeds and hourly English news here:

http://www.astv-tv.com/toc_broadcast.html

Something else. I always wonder where all this anti Thaksin anti Samak knowledge of the English community comes from. Maybe the Nation.PAD or Bangkokpost.PAD or ASTV.2 (TOC.pad.com.)

disgusting.

If this action by PAD causes the price of beer to rise in the capital there is going to be hel_l to pay!

I know that some here on Thai Visa want to compare this situation (perhaps a revolution) to famous communist coups around the world since the 1950's. I prefer to compare PAD to that once infamous German Army corporal, Adolf Hitler.

Be afraid. Be very afraid. The People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) is using scare tactics to mold the opinion of the uninformed populace to their own ends. While complaining and pointing fingers at the elected government about anything and everything they refuse to negotiate on any subject and simply call for an end to present government rule. Sound familiar? Same thing happened two years ago which led to a coup d'état and the ousting of a seated, elected government.

This is nothing new. Many of us remember from our history lessons that back in the 1930's Europe they had their own PAD saying exactly the same thing about the seated government. The Nazi Party used the economic hardships suffered by the Germans to grab power. Adolph Hitler and his ilk fooled the German people into joining their extreme and radical movement to overthrow the government.

Like the Nazi's in Germany PAD has no business in a civilized Thai society. They are trampling on the peoples consciences and revising history to suit their own ends. These extreme, unconscionable leaders are master manipulators, preying on the weak, drunk with power and serve no constructive purpose. It is time to put an end to the madness and remove PAD and their self-serving leaders. They have had their fifteen minutes in the spotlight and have fooled innocent Thai people long enough.

IMHO

It is very disappointing. After 14 years of no-perfect democracy, but still democracy (1992-2006), all forces seem to want to destroy it and prevent democracy to take roots.

In fact, it doesn't matter if me or you or other Thais don't like Samak, but the fact he won the elections and if PAD wants to oust him by the force, they are not worth of being called Democratic party.

Democracy doesn't work this way. Protests , strikes, ok, it is a right in the Constitution, but ousting a government in this way is unaccepatble.

Don't they realize the damage they are doing to Thailand ? I guess many investors will loose their faith in this country.

Economy will start to suffer from all these political turmoils for sure.

Oh by the way my wife has been asked why she don't participate (in the protest ) easy way to earn some money. Stop dreaming this PAD leaders are thugs with a hidden agenda. (not so hidden they want power )

with respect, likening the PAD to the third reich is so spectacularly misinformed as to be downright offensive.

Well said that man!

Anybody who chooses to refer to the deeply corrupt Taxin government, or his current puppet regime as democratically elected is also severely misinformed.

Taxin bought his way into power by wholesale vote purchase from the rural Thais. 1M Baht per village buys a lot of votes. He retained power the second time by7 simply threatening to demand repayment of the loans etc. every villager took out from his 1M Baht scheme. Democracy? My @ss!

What has that to do with armed PAD thugs storming a TV station and ordering personal off their desks?

And if you watch TV news - you can clearly see the arms they carried during that raid.

If you read their "new politics", their position regarding the temple issue, and listen to their nationalistic rants - then comparison to Fascist and Nazi ideology is not too far off.

Just because they are against a corrupt government doesn't make their own philosophy any less fascist.

Maybe we should consider that those protesters may be neither fascists nor communists or any other such "bad evil folk" who do not share your viewpoint. Maybe PAD are just people of the centre and NOT the extremes you quote, who are fed up with what they feel is a corrupt fascist style Government who got in by buying votes and corrupting the course of democracy. Maybe they realise that if they do not have the courage to protest and show some level of threat of force then they would not be taken seriously and that nothing will then ever change or happen. In all democracies protest has been shown to be the only way when democracy (i.e. will of the majority of citizens) is being seen to be raped. We have seen it in the UK and in USA too (Vietnam where the majority were clearly against it, Thatcher's hit the poor Poll Tax too) and lo and behold it worked and things changed for the better !!! It is too easy to glibly blame the protesters as maybe the current Government, clinging to office yet knowing that they are really in power without the true will of the people, are the very people maybe more responsible for the current troubles. So should the current PPP Government not stand down and ensure that we now get fair elections with NO vote buying ?? New elections monitored by an invited in UN (or internationally accepted) based unbiased observation team too, sure it wont happen but I know in my heart that it really should if we want to see true democracy here for the Thai people. Anyone caught vote buying or rigging is then banned from Thai politics for LIFE.

I can look back at my country the UK and a hundred years ago or so we were ruled by the extreme right wing elitist ruling class, very much a them and us society who kept the poor in poverty for their own ends, much as we appear to see here today. The people in the UK got together and not without protests formed the Labour Party, and this at least, even when they were only the opposition in Parliament, repressed the elite ruling class from having their own way so much. Then there was a true valid alternative to the ruling class and no more (or at least a lot less) immoral suppression of the ordinary working folk who after all were and still are the majority, we now have a so much fairer and morally just society than those bad old days. Maybe that is what is happening here and if so in the long term it may be just what is needed.

I am purely a bystander being a guest here in LOS and just an observer taking neither side and just raising more points as food for thought, BUT in my heart I feel it would be nice to get rid of all unelected and cheat vote rigging elected extremist corrupt Governments in any countries in the world. I want to see justice for the poeple, and crap low life like Toxin (and even the far worse corrupt criminals), who care only about themselves and not their country, brought back to face true and moral justice (internationally monitored if necessary) and not harboured in so called "morally high ground" countries.

I just hope there is no bloodshed over this and that the outcome whatever it is will be good for Thailand, the country that I love and chose to live in for my retirement. I feel sorry for the normal decent Thai folk who are having to go through this turmoil. They are stuck with it, we as guests if push comes to shove have our own countries we can return to if we do not like what we see, so lets all think about the ordinary Thai folk and not just ourselves here hmmm.

Just look ASTV.1 or ASTV.2 then you see what a bunch of fools this PAD are. But dangerous fools or what are this thugs with black masks doing peaceful protest?

I hope they will be jailed and their leaders for live.

with respect, likening the PAD to the third reich is so spectacularly misinformed as to be downright offensive.

Well said that man!

Anybody who chooses to refer to the deeply corrupt Taxin government, or his current puppet regime as democratically elected is also severely misinformed.

Taxin bought his way into power by wholesale vote purchase from the rural Thais. 1M Baht per village buys a lot of votes. He retained power the second time by7 simply threatening to demand repayment of the loans etc. every villager took out from his 1M Baht scheme. Democracy? My @ss!

What has that to do with armed PAD thugs storming a TV station and ordering personal off their desks?

And if you watch TV news - you can clearly see the arms they carried during that raid.

If you read their "new politics", their position regarding the temple issue, and listen to their nationalistic rants - then comparison to Fascist and Nazi ideology is not too far off.

Just because they are against a corrupt government doesn't make their own philosophy any less fascist.

Maybe we should consider that those protesters may be neither fascists nor communists or any other such "bad evil folk" who do not share your viewpoint. Maybe PAD are just people of the centre and NOT the extremes you quote, who are fed up with what they feel is a corrupt fascist style Government who got in by buying votes and corrupting the course of democracy. Maybe they realise that if they do not have the courage to protest and show some level of threat of force then they would not be taken seriously and that nothing will then ever change or happen. In all democracies protest has been shown to be the only way when democracy (i.e. will of the majority of citizens) is being seen to be raped. We have seen it in the UK and in USA too (Vietnam where the majority were clearly against it, Thatcher's hit the poor Poll Tax too) and lo and behold it worked and things changed for the better !!! It is too easy to glibly blame the protesters as maybe the current Government, clinging to office yet knowing that they are really in power without the true will of the people, are the very people maybe more responsible for the current troubles. So should the current PPP Government not stand down and ensure that we now get fair elections with NO vote buying ?? New elections monitored by an invited in UN (or internationally accepted) based unbiased observation team too, sure it wont happen but I know in my heart that it really should if we want to see true democracy here for the Thai people. Anyone caught vote buying or rigging is then banned from Thai politics for LIFE.

I can look back at my country the UK and a hundred years ago or so we were ruled by the extreme right wing elitist ruling class, very much a them and us society who kept the poor in poverty for their own ends, much as we appear to see here today. The people in the UK got together and not without protests formed the Labour Party, and this at least, even when they were only the opposition in Parliament, repressed the elite ruling class from having their own way so much. Then there was a true valid alternative to the ruling class and no more (or at least a lot less) immoral suppression of the ordinary working folk who after all were and still are the majority, we now have a so much fairer and morally just society than those bad old days. Maybe that is what is happening here and if so in the long term it may be just what is needed.

I am purely a bystander being a guest here in LOS and just an observer taking neither side and just raising more points as food for thought, BUT in my heart I feel it would be nice to get rid of all unelected and cheat vote rigging elected extremist corrupt Governments in any countries in the world. I want to see justice for the poeple, and crap low life like Toxin (and even the far worse corrupt criminals), who care only about themselves and not their country, brought back to face true and moral justice (internationally monitored if necessary) and not harboured in so called "morally high ground" countries.

I just hope there is no bloodshed over this and that the outcome whatever it is will be good for Thailand, the country that I love and chose to live in for my retirement. I feel sorry for the normal decent Thai folk who are having to go through this turmoil. They are stuck with it, we as guests if push comes to shove have our own countries we can return to if we do not like what we see, so lets all think about the ordinary Thai folk and not just ourselves here hmmm.

From The Nation:

PAD is trying to seize power and depose gov't: Natthawut

Government deputy spokesman Natthawut Saikua claimed on Wednesday that the People's Alliance for Democracy was coordinating with an underground movement to incite a coup to oust the government.

Natthawut said authorities might have to round up selected protest leaders and certain generals who are working behind-the-scene with the PAD.

He said a general met with PAD leader Sondhi Limthongkul on Tuesday's night to finalise a plan to use the PAD as a catalyst for coup.

He said the PAD has planned to disrupt the government from functioning in selected areas in the capital and upcountry. If left unchecked, the PAD might try to raid key airports and provincial halls along with trying to control strategic locations in the capital.

The Nation

end quote

Actually a joke....the government never functioned, you can hardly call Samak a government

How somebody can call this 'PAD" democratic ??? my wife has been asked why she don't go protesting: easy money !!!!!!!.

Very sad Didi

<br />

History shows when demonstrations of this kind build up as they seem to be inevitably there will be trouble. Despite the PAD saying it will be a peaceful march there will be those that want to cause trouble and once it starts the ending is always the same as the police have no choice but to do something. I hope it doesnt happen but that would contradict everything that has happened before.

<br />It is already not a peaceful march. That is out the window. It seems there intent is to breach police lines. Reports (from what I read) indicate the PAD is forming multiple smaller groups to make it tougher to disperse. Reportedly, the 5PM time for the big push came from ASTV, which could be a diversion. <br /><br />There is no need for all this. The Democrats are going about this 100% in the correct way. Work through the system and keep the system. Otherwise chaos prevails.<br />

What in the heck has that to do with the present government???? There was ever since I came first to Thailand such a day. Always that catches somebody by surprise.

What's wrong with that ?

If you wonna get some stuff you get. Stop that whining better for you. Cheers Didi

What a shame, I don't fly to Thailand until the 26th so I'll miss all the "fun".

I'll just have to stay here in this communist state where I can drink whenever I want to.

Honestly I see no problem with them declaring Buddhist Lent day alcohol free if that's what they want but they should ultimately let the people decide whether they go along with it or not. They also should allow hotels, restaurants and bars dependant on the tourist trade to decide whether to refuse to serve alcohol or not according to the wishes of the owner. I also wouldn't mind but this decree will only ever be applied to the hotels, restaurants and bars frequented, in the main, by tourists and expats. All the little local mom'n'pop stores will carry on regardless and I bet all the police/army run gambling dens will continue to serve.

But no, this present administation, I'll not call them a government they don't deserve the title, just loves to tackle the little meaningless issues where they can puff their little chests out and look important. It's probably better that way though as they can't even handle the simpler stuff without provoking a bit of cross border sabre rattling.

So why do these mere humans use his name................

The lord Buddha was a human being and never sought to elevate himself above any living thing.

Precisely what he would make of this I'm not sure. He was against intoxicants but would he want his wishes pushed onto others? I personally think not.

Not to nice, but why always assume it is bribe? There is no bribe. But people like you which ask how to bribe and are willing to bribe are the pest. My wife manages it in five to ten minutes.

It would take me maybe half an hour. Maybe try to be there real early have a nice breakfast and relax. I know the people in Suan Plu over 15 years and most are nice and helpful. Wish in some "falang" immigrations happens the same effective work.

Didi

I went to get my 1 year marriage visa extended. I arrived at 9:45am and there were 41 people in front of me. I had to wait until after 3pm!

It really pissed me off when it was almost my turn i went to stand near the desks and thats when i noticed what was going on.

Basically for each "queued" person there were about 3 other people coming up and (i'm assuming) somehow buying their way into the line (without a ticket number or ticket number that was like 50 places to go).

How is it that you go about bribing your way into the line? How much does it cost? Is this practice now common place?

I'd never noticed this going on before, but may because last year there was only an hour or so queue.

A cynic might say that that as Thailand does not have a war to fight, this is Mother Natures way of culling the population. I read today also that the Interior Minsiter is considering banning alcohol at Songkran next year, that would make it like a 7 day election and kiss goodbye to even more tourists. Let's face it, whatever we say or think, nothing will change because the Thais seem to LIKE risking their own lives and that of others with lunatic behaviour. I feel truly sorry for the loss of life incurred thus fare and for what is still to come. Happy Songkran, stay at home!

Right mate.

What else to say.

The 20 years (very promising and educated) old brother of my to be daughter in law lost his live because he joined a lunatic drunken driver after a party. He himself didn't drink. What a shame. Hope I wil not lose one of me kids if they join a drunken driver. My brother in law (thai) and a teacher turned over his car while driving under the influence. Hope less.

cuban i live in hotttttt kanchanaburi and thanks for the weather like

Hi Dear

I live in Kancha (Tabsila)too. Three years ago we had a hailstorm that led to a downwash from the mountains that collapsed two walls, flattened two of my storage huts, hit holes in the roof. Some roads were hours unpassable. But don't you worry if you live in Amper muang you only get swept away when the dam of the Srinakarin- reservoir breaks due to an earthquake.

Good night Didi

...I later tried my actual branch in the town and was told, no problem...

Thank you. This confirms what I suspected: the bank was not discriminating against you, but one of her employees is ill-informed and, judging from your description of your experience, appears indeed to be strongly xenophobic. No doubt she will be promoted until she reaches her level of incompetence.

--

Maestro

My wife is Thai. Her ATM card stopped working. Don't ask what a hassle it is to get it replaced. We would have to go to Tonglor branch with the Bank book my written agreement in person (joint account). Imagine she would have been abroad and it happenen there? There is only one point I disagree with the origial poster. Most of the empoyees are unfriendly and unefficient with Thais and foreigners alike. (Bad management?) Do as we did stop doing business with Bangkok Bank.

Stop to doing any business with Bangkok Bank that's what I do.

There may be some truth in what you say.

I would have thought that a "long stay farang" would not only know to dress appropriately, but also know that he must present himself in an appropriately humble (servile?) manner. He should wai in a subservient way, and the smile should be a nervous, half-smile rather than a confident, "I'm a clever farang" type smile.

Then.. just maybe... all will be well

I always went with my wife (Thai) casual but proper dressed, with the required papers. (BKK Immigration) Smiled friendly to the officers with a wei which recognized my smile with a smile and a wei back. They know us since many years. This year I didn't go because of a bad hips condition (hospital certificate). It took my wife maybe ten minutes, that what it took us before ( between fife and twenty minutes). Actually it's easier now, before you had to come back after about 30 days. Not now.

I would like the German Immigration office (Ausländeramt) as friendly and efficient as the BKK immigrations. My British brother in law feels the same about the British counterpart. Even I had also never serious problems there too.

We have a word: how you shout into the wood , it shouts back to you.

Didi