sober

I wish you luck -- which is what you need...well, luck or money.

I am aware of no fee waivers for indigents. If there were such a thing, then you could seek that assistance via your school or the church that brought you here. Really, you should turn there for help and not here (half of us think you live under the bridge).

1. Your school needs to get you a work permit at least. Keep after them about that.

2. When you get your work permit, get a second and third job.

3. Then make a budget. Where can you scrimp and save. Set a goal. Show your love for your lady by meeting or exceeding that goal month after month.

4. In x months, you will have the cash you need for necessary travel, permits, and so forth.

5. But don't stop there. Continue to work under the good habits you developed in steps 3 and 4. Someday Jonny, you're going to make something of yourself. You'll be so successful, your wife won't leave you for a man with more money.

Chris, don't let these guys spook you. There might be some law on the books that is as arcane as the same US law. Nobody has given instance of its enforcement besides when it is logically to be enforced -- upon showing up to work in Thailand. Since that event will not occur in your case, you do not need to trouble yourself with a work permit, which you cannot obtain anyway unless you can satisfy requirements that you cannot satisfy. You are doing nothing wrong if your intent is to visit Thailand and not to reside in Thailand.

My advice to you is not legal but career -- enjoy a month or two here and then go home. How long do you think your job will last with you working remotely? I know many people who have done so and, invariably, they are the first cut loose when the economy turns bad and corporations RIF. The US economy is headed for the toilet. I think now is a bad time for you to be away from the mothership. If you are ready to set sail, then make sure you can earn a living on your own, independent of the US company. In that case, if you want to reside in Thailand rather than just live here a few months, then you must build the solid legal foundation for your business and work responsibilities here. In that case, you should hire a lawyer.

After 363 posts, maybe we need a little re-cap.

Who is NOT affected by the booze ban?

• Rich Thais, Puyais, Thais of 'influence'. They can drink whatever they like whenever they like, wherever they like with total impunity.
  
• Working and middle class Thais. They know where they can find booze, either to take home or drink on the premises.
  
• Farangs living in Thailand. (Ditto for above - maybe not quiet so easy to obtain as for Thais, but certainly do-able.)
  
• Long term tourists. Those who have been here a while, or know their way around will not be overly inconvenienced.
  

Who IS affected by the booze ban

• Tourists who have recently arrived to enjoy their 2 - 3 weeks of the festive season in the sun.
  
• Thousands of Thai workers, and business owners (Thai and farang) who are engaged in the tourist trade.
  

Who is HAPPY about the booze ban?

• The power crazed little prig who decided to enforce the order. (And the more we whine, the happier, he no doubt will be. )
  

Have I missed anyone?

Also:

Who does the ban benefit?

All of those who want to live under democracy in Thailand, including Rich Thais, Puyais, Thais of 'influence'; Working and middle class Thais; Farangs living in Thailand; Long term tourists; Thousands of Thai workers, and business owners (Thai and farang) who are engaged in the tourist trade.

I guess that leaves one of your groups in the cold:

Tourists who have recently arrived to enjoy their 2 - 3 weeks of the festive season in the sun.

Let's now pray that they can show the reslience and adaptability to get their drink on Sunday through Friday.

To the ever-increasing number of posters who claim that the bar closure rule for the current weekend was announced in the media weeks ago, please put up or shut up. Where are the links? Where are those articles?

FACT: Even Pattaya Police stations did not have notification of the no-booze edict for the 14-15-16 as late as mid-afternoon on the 14th. A friend who is a Jomtien bar owner sent his Thai manager to the Dongtan police station that morning and was told there would be a "decision" announced at 5:00pm, an hour before the alleged ban was to be effective. The Police Chief said he had no notice regarding a ban as of that morning.

FACT: Apparently a *few* businesses in Pattaya, including Villa Market at The Avenue, got an official written notice, but only two days before the ban was in effect. Shenanigans restaurant, in the same shopping complex, was not aware of any ban when I asked on the afternoon of the 13th.

FACT: The no-booze edict for the true election date -- NEXT WEEKEND -- *has* been well-publicized in the media for several weeks.

I maintain that the ban for booze this weekend was very badly handled. Finding out within 48 hours that alcohol may not be served, a restaurant which was catering a large private dinner party, and even a street party to benefit HIV charities, were a bit hard pressed to work around the ban.

So, where again are those week(s)-old media reports about the 14-15-16th ban on alcohol sales?

I have no horse in the race regarding the banter whether two booze-less weekends at the very start of high season are a Good Thing or not. I simply feel that the last-minute decision to include the current weekend was very poorly implemented and indeed caused a lot of anxiety for restauranteurs, bar owners and hotels.

Well, the Big Mango knew of the 14th closure by the 5th at the latest: http://www.2thebigmango.com/?p=559. So there's the link you requested. If I were you, I'd put a 500 baht note in the hand of a bar manager at one of the bigger venues and ask him for tips on how to do your job. You have a duty to keep yourself informed of these laws and events so that you can advise your customers to reschedule that big event planned for the 14th.

Even in the Uk Licenced premises cannot open when they want on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day.

The majority of pubs/bars close at Midnight on Christmas Eve/Christmas Day, as Christmas day is regarded as Sunday hours. On Christmas Day itself, somePubs/bars, but not many, can open at 11am and close at 3pm. The majority, if not most, do not open again until the morning of Boxing Day, on the 26th.

Yes, the UK also, has closing hours to respect and celebrate Christmas. The closed hours allow landlords/bar owners the time to spend with their families, to enjoy Christmas also.

There is more to life than open pubs/bars/discos, name them what you will.

The UK now has laws which allow 24/7 opening of licenced premises, however, thank goodness, very, very few premises take that allowance up. The numbers that do so, is negligible, in fact, virtually non-existent.

I tend to think that the OP believes that money is more important than life. Please forgive and correct me if I am wrong.

All well and good, BUT!!!

Would any government in any country in the world, shut down the entire country during the absolute peak of high season for more than 20% of that peak period? The tourist T-Shirts sellers can have this one on me!

2001 - 9/11

2002 - SARS

2003 - Bali Bomb

2004 - Tsunami

2005 - Bird Flue

2006 - Coup

2007 - Elections

Do we want a tourism industry in this country? Can we take anymore high season hits?

If this election had come around as initially promised, it would have been before the end of September. On top of the billions of lost revenue will be lost tax to the incoming government. They, will get the ultimate financial kick in their collective pants when we pay our taxes next month!! Lots of worried faces when the tax doesn't flood in as hoped (I just could not bring myself to say "planned" I tried but just couldn't manage it) for.

For the non-believers or non-thinkers. Hundreds of thousands of wealthy tourists will on these days, not make that extra hit on the credit card that they otherwise might have done if they had been out on the town. A few bevvies can loosen the purse strings and all kinds of purchases are made during this period. We've all done it as tourists, few beers, off to the ATM, sort it out when we are back in blighty.

This lost money will never make it to, bar staff/owners, taxi drivers (some joy there then!), delivery staff, ice factory staff, cleaners, D'J's, musicians, late night food outlets, etc. etc. etc. And hopefully if the whole of the Tourism sector get it together and stand up to the tax man, the Thai Government (oxymoron if ever there was one).

Now there's a good idea: if you diversify your business and start selling t-shirts, your portfolio wouldn't diminish so much when liquor sales decrease... That's using your head.

When found to be working is the most obvious circumstance.

When who finds him? How? The guy is going to do Web development from his home and get paid directly by US employer. If he doesn't have a work permit, he's breaking the law. But who is going to notice that he's working in this case? Thanks.

Thats more accurate advice, your now saying that he can probably break the law and get away with it, thats very different from 'you dont need'..

If he did get caught, he sure 'would need' !!

We have the same law on the books in the US. If you are a french poet, and you don't have a work permit, you'd be breaking the law to write a poem while visiting US. If you snap a photo with intent to distribute, you'd be breaking the law. But we don't enforce the law at any time other than day 1 on the job -- when the employer is required to obtain I-9 authorization to work. My question is sincere and I do not know the answer. I am only curious. Do other countries enforce similar laws at different occassions -- such as entry, random checks, surveillance, etc?

When found to be working is the most obvious circumstance.

When who finds him? How? The guy is going to do Web development from his home and get paid directly by US employer. If he doesn't have a work permit, he's breaking the law. But who is going to notice that he's working in this case? Thanks.

Now ask those Thai bands, caterers, waitresses (and the families living from that income) if they think their wages are more important than the fun of having democracy 'maybe, soon'.

I think you are confused - they have not suddenly passed a law but issued an edict or whatever under existing laws.

Must agree about the short notice though but there is the proviso these closures have been talked about for weeks so people have been burying their heads in the sand.

Prakanong, a direct question for you:

Lets have the following scenario (true circumstances according to posters in this thread):

Your company has organized their year-end party for this weekend, lets say 400 people. Hotel premises were reserved, a band ordered, maybe even a third-party caterer to bring in food. Who is responsible for the damage if this party has to be cancelled on such extremely short notice?

I personally would believe, as changes in law are higher force, that actually the hotel and band can be cancelled without further financial responsibility to the organizer of the party.

The loser in this scenario would be surely be the (Thai) band, having received most likely a very small upfront amount, and maybe the caterer, as they would also have received only a small pre-payment. It will be impossible for them to re-schedule to a new event in such a time frame.

Now imagine the hotel, already fully pre-paid, to give back money as they will argue that of course the premises do still exist and it is the choice of the organizer to use them or not. The organizer would argue that sale of alcohol was part of the contract that the hotel is now unable to fulfill (as it actually often is). In the west this would end up in court, one would imagine.

But as you, Prakanong, believe that justice is just going right here, who of the mentioned parties -- the organizer, hotel, band, caterer -- do you think personally is right in this scenario and should carry the financial responsibility for the progress of democracy or should everybody just grab the money still in hand and do a runner?

Legally, it depends on what's in the contracts. Thais favor freedom of contract. Do your duty and cover in the event of breach. I don't think the booze ban would be grounds for impossibility to perform unless booze was an express dependency for all other duties. Business is risky business. Like I told the bar owner, business is not just about cashing checks. Like Snoop says, "Somedays it just beez that way."

Oh -- and before you call me out for not being who you addressed the question to -- send a PM if you want only one person's opinion.

Terminology above is not quite right. The visa is called a multi entry non immigrant visa. When you arrive you fill out an arrival/departure card and the arrival section is kept by immigration and your passport is stamped with a permitted to stay until date. When you leave the departure card section is collected and you are stamped out. When you return you fill out a new card and are stamped in with a new permitted to stay until date.

By law you need a work permit to work. It has nothing to do with being paid in Thailand; or even being paid.

Thanks for cleaning up my language.

On the work permit, I agree that the law requires you to obtain a work permit if you will work in Thailand. Unless you join to a Thai payroll, I cannot think of a circumstance in which you must present a work permit. Do you know of any? Thanks.

You registered just so you could slag Brits - laughable

You knowledge of the troubles in Ireland show you are not very knowledgeable or intelligent - call yourself "Sober" - alkie previously were we?

BTW I am English and have defended the Thai's rights to prohibit all through this thread.

Yes, I hate the imperialist pos Brits with a passion. They have an exaggerated sense of entitlement everywhere they go. I guess my country has been the only one fit enough to shoot the bastards dead and make them leave. I hope the Thais wisen up and rise up, too.

If you want to read about troubles, here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles. If the Irish had sobered up and become a political force at the polls, they wouldn't have to subsequently taken to the streets like terrorists. Same thing happened with the Irish in Montana, USA. Irish miners had the numbers but were too drunk to vote on election day. Protestant mine owners won the day and Helena became the capital instead of Anaconda.

And thanks for defending the Thai's rights to prohibit!

Hello,

I can obtain a non imm. B visa from my home country for thailand, my question is the work permit. I won't be working for a thai company or a company that has a thai location (can't really get a thai work permit).

When I leave the country every 90days am I required to show a work permit? Or is the visa stamp in my passport good enough for re-entry?

If so then I could just return to the states once a year and obtain a new non imm. b visa vrs the extension that requires all the paperwork to obtain..... Can some one clearify if the visa stamp alone will allow me back into the country every 90days?

Chris

you don't need a work permit and you don't have to show one at immigration. if you get a multiple reentry for 1 year, that visa gets stamped in your passport. when you arrive, immigration staples an exit visa ticket into your passport. when you make your 90 day run to another country to refresh your 90 day stay increments, you give the immigration officer your passport. they take the exit visa ticket. when you return, they give you another exit visa.

so everything you have assumed is correct. what gets you in each time is the 1 year multiple reentry visa.

also, you can disregard any concern about work permit unless you want to get paid in Thailand.

The fact that there was going to be restrictions on alchohol sales was mentioned in newspapers about three or four weeks ago. I remember well, discussing the scenario with colleagues at school.

Obviously, there must have been other avenues of media also reporting the situation. Thus eliminating the idea that no one new about the situation until a few hours ago.

Please don't ask me which newspapers. I only read two . The Bangkok Post and the Pattaya Mail. For the life of me, I am unable to remember which paper. However, the actual newspaper source is irela

event.

I'm with you, Mike. This has not only been in the news but is a standard practice here and throughout the world. There is no surprise.

Serp, you need to sober up and tend to your business. You have an obligation to your employees to steer your ship. Business isn't all about cashing checks. It's about knowing and acting on your rights and responsibilites, too.

Here, the Thai government isn't interfering with your rights beyond what is reasonable for a sovereign. You have a quid pro quo with the Thai sovereign. You get to do business but under a license subject to terms of the sovereign.

The Thai government economists have factored in all of your points about tourism, small businesses, etc. on balance with a full participation election. It didn't go your way.

Time for you to turn the page and kick off a promotion on Sunday that will keep your seats filled when permitted. Good luck!

Serp, it's not a clampdown or a crackdown, it's a practice many countries have to ensure full participation in a democratic election. It is a soverign right of a country to enforce election measures that collaterally cramp the style of tourists and foreign investors.

I think you are exaggerating about your business loss. I have seen prospectus on payroll for bars in Pattaya and Bangkok and you don't really pay these people much to begin with. Now you are going to use this as an excuses to lay people off?

Shame on you for seeking our pity.

I'm a lurker who registered to register his indignation that so many ex-pats (mostly British) deride Thailand for taking measures to ensure full participation in a democratic election.

Mexico does the same thing.

Some local jurisdictions in US do.

You Brits probably could have avoided the troubles if the Irish hadn't been drunk and missed the chance to particpate in UK governance.

Get yourself a new hobby. Find some real friends whose company you can bear without alcohol. Or just continue to rant about your loneliness on this forum.

But please be respectful of the Thai people. Or go home.