Nudee

Austhai, I am not here to make argument wheter my view is right or wrong.

I had to type hardly in my second language to share what I've learnt from my mistake in the past.

My message is for those who can "see" it and for newcomers.

If you are a veteran or don't understand it or if you don't think it's right, please leave it here, don't take it with you. It's not a message for you.

This will be my last time posting in here. It's juat a waste of time trying to convince lost people that they are in the lost track.

Go back to discuss your favourite topics such as "is this because of my karma?", "which amulet is better, more powerful?", "what this monk did is good or bad?", "Meditation save my life", "what is life after death?", "where was buddha born" etc. and live with your arrogant.

For those who want to walk the same path lord Buddha walked, please stick to the main purpose, "end suffering" and use your Citta to teach your Citta. Day by day you will come closer to the path and won't get lost with other non-sense things discussed in this forum.

Bye-bye and good luck.

Oh! my last word for newcomer, if you don't know what real Dhukka is, you won't be able to end it. Dhukka is translated as "suffering" in English but ending it is not to seek happiness. "suffering" and "happiness" is only "Wetana" not Dhukka-ariyasaj you have to end.

Whatever karma is, your previous karma is notthing to do with your suffering.

Karma is not that important in buddhism.

Good karma, bad karma, not good-not bad karma, doesn't matter.

Just stay with your present Dhamma and forget about karma.

84,000 sections in Tipitaka is to end suffering.

The shortest and probably the only one way to end suffering is to concentrate on your Citta, not your karma.

If you start with karma-oriented way, then it will take you more than one life to end suffering because it's not the main path.

If you want to end suffering in this life, stay close to your Citta and observe it, learn it. Your Citta will teach your Citta.

When your suffering is ended, whetherwhat you do is good karma, bad karma, not good-not bad karma, or whether next life exists or not, is not relevent.

A man cannot be called "mother"

A woman without a child cannot be called "mother"

A woman with a child is called "mother"

A female who is ordained by a bikkhuni called "bikkhuni"

It's just a "Nam", why bother.

If you are a man who want to call youself "mother", just do it.

But don't expect other to call you a "mom"

Life is short, why bother with this "Nam" thing.

The first bikkhuni/bikkhu was ordained by lord buddha.

A bikkhu could only be ordained by a bikkhu.

A bikkhuni could only be ordained by a bikkhuni.

The last bikkhuni died a very long time ago so there is no real bikkhuni nowaday.

It doesn't matter if you are a mae chee of a bikkhuni, the main purpose is to end "suffering"

Luang Pu Dun is the very first student of Luang Pu Man.

Citta translated as "mind" in English but I have no way to know what "mind" means to foreigner. In Thai, we call it "Jit".

Paticcasamuppāda is the theory how Citta can perform things arising from Avitcha.

You can not control Citta (all the time) to stop its reaction. But you can teach it by using Citta to see Citta.

Have breathing stay with you all the time, when your Citta leaves its base, don't control it, let your Citta see what it has done. It will learn by itself and will gradually relinguish what causes your Atta.

And for people who want to teach your Jit (Citta) and follow the stream of Nippan.

THE METHOD OF DEVELOPING BHAVANA

One begins with the body posture that is comfortable whether standing, walking, sitting or lying down, whatever is convenient. One should then make oneself fully aware with just bare awareness, not trying to be aware of "something", just knowing itself alone. One then keeps the citta there continuously, just in bare awareness. There is no need to be discursive or analytical. Don't force it but also don't let the citta be free to follow events.

After a while the citta will go out following sense objects before one can catch it. This is normal for a beginner and when the citta is satisfied with that sense object, one will then again become aware of oneself. When one becomes aware, one should investigate by comparing ones state in still awareness and ones state when the citta is following sense objects. What is the difference? This is a method to make the citta notice and remember.

After this carefully and gently keep the citta in a state of still awareness as before. When one is not mindful, not being careful enough, the citta will again go out to seek some sense object and remain until it is satisfied and then one will again become aware.

When one is again aware, reinvestigate and then gently keep the citta in the state of still awareness as before. By this method, it will not be very long before one is able to control the citta and finally attain Samadhi. One will then be clever in the ways of the citta without having to learn it from another.

Do not meditate when the citta is in a state of emotional turmoil. This would be of no use and may even cancel out ones former efforts resulting in one losing the desire to practice further.

When one is unable to practice in the way given above, one should try thinking "Buddho" or any other word as long as it isn't a source disturbance or aversion. One just continues to think this word and then tries to notice where the word is clearest and that will be the "base" of the citta. One should notice that this base does not remain stationary at all times, one day being one place and another day somewhere else. The base of the citta, becoming clear with "Buddho", will never be external but always internal within the body. When we investigate this, however, we will not be able to pin point the exact place within the body, making it hard to say whether it is external or internal. When this happens, this means one has arrived at the correct base of the citta.

When one has correct attention and "Buddho" is clear in the mind's eye, one tries to continue on without break because if there is a break, the citta will zip out to a sense object again. When it is satisfied with the sense object, one will then again regain awareness and continue "Buddho" as before, according to the same method as mentioned above. Slowly one will finally be able to control the citta by oneself.

Remember that in being aware of (or fixing) the citta, one must have in mind the aim of developing the citta to the desired state. This aim is virtue (Sila). Reciting "Buddho" alone, without this purpose of virtue, will be of no use at all and will negate our efforts making meditation difficult in the future. If ones purpose is firm, however, ones development of the citta will, without doubt, bear fruit every time to varying degrees but always to the satisfaction of the practitioner. In using "Buddho", clear, fixed thought and consistency must be coupled with diligent effort. I have compared firm and consistent purpose to a man watching the sword blade of an enemy ready to strike. The man watches the sword blade thinking, "Whatever way it comes at me, I must counter it to be safe".

This determination must be firm in order for Samadhi to arise, if it is not, then don't waste your time and ruin your faith.

When the citta slowly, step by step, goes into calm, the citta's habit of going out to the senses and their objects will slowly lessen until one will be aware as soon as it occurs. When one gets to this stage the word "Buddho", mentally recited, will disappear on it's own because the recitation word is a gross object and when the citta goes beyond this gross object stage it will abandon it. When the preparatory word has disappeared one need not recall it. Just keep the citta at the base constantly and notice the feelings and tendencies of the citta in that base.

In the mental recitation method for one-pointedness of the citta notice "who" is reciting "Buddho". One should look at the citta when it is calm. Let mindfulness watch the base and when any sense object arises let the object go and continue watching the citta. One should not worry or force but just try to keep and attend to the citta at its base having mindfulness (Sati) there to quietly be aware of things. One should not speculate about the citta as to what is happening or what arises, just be aware. Letting this go on continuously, one will begin to understand the ways actions of the citta. Does the citta create the defilements (Kilesa) or do the defilements create citta? Understand the objects of thought and notice the three types, which are greed (Raga), hate (Dosa) and delusion (Moha).

Don't send the citta outside. Be aware of the one object (the citta) and don't let it go outside to objects. When the citta does go out mindfully return it to its base and awareness. One should try to maintain clear comprehension (Sampajanna) always. With the exception of normal vision (Rupanimitta) one should pay no attention to mental images (Namanimitta). While the citta is not thinking about external things notice the activities of the citta in following the six senses.

One must attain knowledge (Nana) in order to see the citta just as the eye sees form. When one has watched the behavior of the citta for some time and when one understands the conditions and causes of the various thoughts, the citta will then be as fast as these thoughts and they will steadily be abandoned until the citta is free of these objects. The citta will then be free and separate from the body-based feelings, remaining at its original base. Seeing this way is seeing with the eyes of wisdom. However much we think we will not know, when we stop thinking, then we will know but to do this we must use thought.

Separate "copied form" (Vinnana) with knowledge (Vijja) by way of the citta (Maggacitta). When one is able to understand that the citta and body are separate, one then continues to watch the citta to see if there is anything remaining in its base or not. One should use mindfulness to watch the citta, keeping the citta calm continuously, until one understands the activities of the citta intricately, level by level. One must understand about causes and results and that these, in fact, come from the thoughts that originate in the citta, compounding, adding to, creating and being born without end. These are the illusions that deceive people. The citta will rid itself of these things continuously until they are gone. This means developing the citta to the point where one can ignore the smallest atom of consciousness (Rupa-Paramanu-Vinnana) in the citta.

One must abandon both causes and results. When one has developed the citta to the point where it is free of thoughts and compounding (empty), one no longer depends on cause and results. The citta will then be free and above states based on thought, being free of all adulteration and called Pure Dhamma of freedom (Samucchedadhamma).

All "debts" are then paid and one would be beyond the cause of birth. When one abandons the smallest atom of attachment, the gross kamma that was fixed, recorded or imprinted in that "Atomic Rupa" will not have a chance at fruition in the future. The debts are no longer increased when (the citta) is contacted by internal or external conditions, it is just contact with no continuing resultant. One has escaped the gross kamma in the former "being"and has paid all debts with no further affairs, responsibilities or ties to cause rebirth in order to repay kamma. Because ones debts are paid and there are no further attachments, the gross kamma that caused one to go on to rebirth cannot again bear fruit and this is called "going beyond the cause of birth".

One who knows (enlightened) does not say what that knowledge is. When all Dhamma has been transmitted then how can that which is called Dhamma be Dhamma? That which is said to: have no Dhamma", that's it that is the Dhamma complete (the one who knows is real but the known is not). When the citta is empty of various activities, it will attain true emptiness with nothing further to notice. One will then know, in truth, that the citta has no form, it is one with emptiness. This means that it has no boundaries or limits. It is part of all things and the citta and "the one who knows" is one and the same.

When the citta and "the one who knows" are one in emptiness, then there is nothing to give or knowledge to impart. There is no "thing" to know the state of anything; there is no state to know a "thing". When one knows the original state of the citta then "citta clearly sees citta". The citta will then be above all states of conventional labeling, beyond all having and being, beyond all words and past talking about. It is "Pure Nature" and light coalesced in emptiness, unadulterated and the brightness of the original universe, it is called "Nibbana".

Luang Pu Dun summarized the Four Noble Truths in Jit (Citta) oriented way:

The citta that is sent outside is Samudaya. (Cause)

The result from sending the citta outside is Dukkha. (Suffering)

Citta seeing citta is Magga. (The Way)

The results of citta seeing citta are Nirodha. (Cessation)

A great talking from Luang Pu Dun, a noble monk from Surin.

Luang Pu dun not always talk this long. He always answer questions with short answers (zen style).

So, this is a piece of talking from Luang Pu Dun that contains only essential things in Buddhism.

Thai Buddhists who learn Vippassana may familiar with this talking from Luang Pu.

I myself cannot translate it into English. Just found that some one already translated it. So, hope it's useful for people who study Buddha's Dhamma here.

THE CITTA IS BUDDHA

by Luang Pu Dulaya 'Dun' Atulo

All Buddhas and all beings in the world are nothing but the single citta. Outside this single citta nothing at all exists. The single citta, free from the conventional self, is something that was not made and is something, which cannot be destroyed. It is not a thing with color, such as green or yellow and has neither form nor appearance. It is not included in existing things or non-existing things. One cannot have the view that it is something new or old, longer short, large or small because it is beyond all limitations, beyond all measuring, beyond labels, beyond leaving a trace and beyond all comparisons.

This single citta is before our very eyes but when we use reason to conceive of it as a "thing" or "self", try it! We will immediately be mistaken. It is like emptiness that is without limitation and cannot be conceived or measured.

The single citta, this alone is Buddha. There is no difference between Buddha and all worldly beings except that worldly beings cling to the various worldly forms causing them to search for "Buddha Nature" (Buddha Bhava) externally. That very search makes them miss "Buddha Nature". This is like using Buddha to search for Buddha or the citta to search for the citta. Even though they may try as hard as they can for a full eon, they will never achieve "Buddha Bhava".

They do not know that is they stop thinking and conceiving and cease their confusion due to this searching. "Buddha" will appear before their eyes because the citta, itself, is Buddha.

Buddha is simply all living beings. When this appears in the worldly beings it is not a small thing and when it appears in all Buddhas it is not a great thing. When practicing the six perfections (Paramita) or any of the many similar customs or in accumulating as much limitless merit as there are sands in the Ganges River, we must consider these things. If in all our actions we have a firm base in truth this means we have but a single citta and are already one and the same with all the Buddhas. We should not try to correct this by adding to something that is already complete by performing various practices, which are meaningless. When the occasion arises, do these things but when it is over, just "be".

If one still does not see clearly and without doubt that the single citta is Buddha and remains attached to forms, rites and customs of merit making, then one's views are still wrong and not in accordance with the Way.

The single citta, that is Buddha. There is no other Buddha anywhere else. There is no other citta anywhere. It is as bright and flawless as emptiness. It has no form or appearance at all. If we use our citta to only imagine and dream, it is as if we have thrown away that, which has meaning, binding ourselves to forms, which is just the "outer bark". Buddha, which is timeless, is not the Buddha we are attached to.

In practicing the six perfections (Generosity, Virtue, Patience, Effort, Mindfulness, Wisdom) and in the many and various similar methods with the intention of becoming one of the Buddhas, we are inching our way step by step. The eternal Buddha of which I speak is not there. The attainment of Buddha is not by these practices or these methods but by awakening and opening our eyes to the single citta. There is nothing to attain. This is true Buddha. Buddha and all things are this one single citta, that's all. There is nothing outside of this.

The citta is like the void, inside of which there is no confusion or evil. Just as when the sun passes through the emptiness of space, it's rays and light fill all the corners of the earth. This is because when the sun rises it gives light evenly to all the earth. The emptiness does not get brighter and when the sun sets the emptiness does not become dark. Lightness and darkness are interchangeable. The nature of emptiness itself never changes. The citta, which is Buddha and the beings of the world, are like that. If we regard the Buddha as the giver of purity and knowledge or we look at worldly beings as stupid, blind and confused, these feelings and thoughts are the result of thinking and grasping at forms. This will prevent us from realizing the ultimate truth. Even if we practice for as many eons as there are grains of sand in the Ganges River, there remains only one single citta alone. There is nothing else at all, not even the presence of a single atom, because the citta is Buddha.

If we who are students of the Way do not open our eyes to what is the essence, which is the citta, we will hide the citta with our thoughts and imaginings. We will go in search of Buddha outside ourselves and remain attached to all forms, blindly practicing merit making rituals and other things of this kind. All this is dangerous and not the way to the highest knowledge at all. The essence of the ultimate truth is like wood or stone, internally there is no movement and externally there is emptiness, boundless and unimpeded. This thing is not mentality (Namadhamma) nor is it materiality (Rupadhamma). It has no special resting-place, no form and cannot disappear.

This citta is not the mind created by thoughts. It is a thing apart, completely unconnected with forms. It is the same for all the Buddhas and beings of the world. All one need do is liberate oneself from thoughts and views and we will reach all our goals. The true principle of Dhamma is the citta and anything outside of this is not a Dhamma principle at all. The citta is the Dhamma principle. Outside of this it is not the citta. Citta on it's own is not citta but even so it is not, not citta. In saying citta is not citta, I mean that some things, which exist, are outside of conventional language to express. So one has to stop thinking and explaining completely. When words are no more, the citta will appear, completely pure.

The citta is the pure origin of Buddha (Budhhayoni) which is present in each person. Beings with emotions, thought and movement or Buddhas and Bodhisattas, all are of one nature and not different. All the differences arise from our thoughts alone, which leads us to create endless kamma of all kinds. Our original Buddha nature,

According to the ultimate truth, is something that is meaningless to a personal self in even one atom of our being. That thing is the emptiness which pervades all things and is calm, quiet and without adulteration. It is peace, luminous and hidden tranquility and the ceasing of all things. One attains this deeply by opening ones eyes to it. It is in front of our very eyes, totally complete and perfect. There is nothing outside of this.

The citta is Buddha, the ultimate, and all things are included in this oneness, from the Enlightened Buddhas at the highest level down to all beings of the lowest forms, insects and creatures that crawl on their bellies. All these have a part equally in being Buddha. All things are of the same essence as Buddha. If we can only succeed in comprehending our heart and meet with our true nature with this understanding, one will then go beyond doubts with nothing more to search for.

If we attain true tranquility in our citta apart from all thoughts and conceivings, which are but movements of the citta, even for an instant, our true nature will be apparent as emptiness. We will then see that it is free of form, taking up no space anywhere, even one atom's worth. It is not classified as something that exists or does not exist. This is because it is something unknowable by way of the senses.

This citta, which is our true original nature, is the womb of our being. No one created it and no one can destroy it. In our interactions with various things around us, we see change in their forms and think of them as "objects". To make it convenient, we speak of the citta as "states" of mindfulness and wisdom (Sati-Panna) but when the citta is not reacting to outside stimuli and without the presence of mindfulness and wisdom to cognize or create, then it is not something which can be talked about or classified as existing or not existing. Even when it is in the act of creating by way of reasoning, it is still something which we cannot be aware of by our own senses of eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body or mind. If we know this truth, we can attain calm in emptiness. We, who are traveling on the path of all the Buddhas, should develop the citta to be still in the absolute void.

The five root elements (Feeling, Perception, Thought formations, Intention, Contact) which together compose consciousness (Vinnana) are but empty. The four root elements (Earth, Water, Fire and Air) of the physical body (Rupa-Kaya) are not self. The true citta has no form, no coming or going. This true original nature is something, which is not created and does not cease at death. It is but inclusively One, free from all movements in its true core.

Our citta and all things around us are but one and the same. If we understand this truly, we will attain clear knowledge and vision in a flash and then we will never again be concerned with the three worlds (Tiloka). We will be above the mundane, completely free of the cause of rebirth. We will just "be", free of all influences causing rebirth. We will attain a state beyond any more creating. This is the basis of Dhamma.

Full Enlightenment (Sammasambodhi) is seeing truly; there is nothing that is not vanity (Mogha). If we understand this truth, then all the illusions will be as nothing to us. Wisdom is knowing clearly; knowing clearly the original citta, free from form. If we understand that both the one who acts and that which is acted upon are just the citta and objects and are one and the same, it will lead us to understand the hidden truth beyond spoken words. By this very understanding we can the open our eyes to the ultimate truth within us.

The ultimate truth within us does not disappear even when we are in darkness and ignorance nor does it return when we reach enlightenment. It is of the nature of "knowing" (Bhutathata, Literally "Thusness" or "Suchness".). In this there is no ignorance, no right view, just emptiness that is the true essence of the single citta.

How is it the various objects that the citta creates, both mental and physical, can be outside this void? According to the principles of truth the void is empty of that which takes up space, all illusions, free of defilements, free of kamma, free of ignorance (Avijja) and free of all right views (Sammaditthi). We must understand clearly that, ultimately, nothing exists. There are no human beings, there are no Buddhas because that void is empty and not even the smallest particle, which could be seen or imagined, takes up space there. It depends on nothing, is connected to nothing. It is flawless beauty, self contained, the ultimate and the uncreated. It is a jewel beyond price.

We must disentangle "copied Rupa" (form replicated by consciousness) using knowledge (Vijja) and the way of the citta (Maggacitta). Causes and results must be abandoned, we must pay our debts and go beyond the cause of rebirth. All the uncountable living and inanimate things in the universe are but aspects of materiality and mentality (Rupa-Nama). Rupa and Nama combine, ignorance arises as well as continuing causes. Wherever there is Rupa (body or materiality) there is Nama (mind or mentality) and wherever there is Nama there is Rupa. When Rupa and Nama combine it causes constant reaction and change and "time" arises. Rupa mutually attract causing Rupa's physical spin and movement, orbiting itself according to conditions. In order for Rupa to move there must be Nama, the void between Rupa, to allow this movement.

When nature is like this, all things material, animate, inanimate, must suffer change following the three characteristics*, arising and ceasing in each movement of the citta without break and never standing still long enough to be real in the present.

The citta and consciousness (Vinnana) arise from the Rupa and Nama of the universe. It is an illusion, changing and misleading beings. From inanimate Rupa and Nama it changes to Rupa and Nama with life. From Rupa and Nama with life it changes to Rupa and Nama that has citta and consciousness. The citta and consciousness change and separates from one another leaving only empty Nama without Rupa. This is the ultimate deception of Rupa and Nama.

The cause of the arising of Rupa-Nama in the universe is the cause of Rupa and Nama in all the worlds including the uncountable stars. There is no end. The Rupa and Nama of the various worlds are the cause of the Rupa and Nama of plants. The Rupa and Nama of plants are the cause of the Rupa and Nama of beings that have movement and are then called "alive". In truth, all Rupa and Nama, whether alive or inanimate, have movement because they have Rupa-Nama. This is why they react, causing them to constantly move and change. If we look with the physical eye we won't see this movement so we then call things "inanimate".

When the Rupa and Nama of plants changes to the Rupa and Nama of beings, it is the beginning of "self" and the cause of the arising and appearance of citta and consciousness which have movement and creates kamma. The first beings made kamma of an ill nature with beings eating beings and having anger, greed and delusion following causes and conditions from both external and internal contacts. They made kamma through the eye, ear, nose, tongue and body interacting with sights, sounds, smells, tastes and touches. This is recorded, imprinted, fixed and stored in the atomic material (Rupa-Paramanu) of the subtle Rupa (Sukhuma-Rupa) latent in the void; invisible to the eye and hidden in the emptiness between the eyes, ears, nose, tongue and body where they are stored.

When the first beings died, it was this gross kamma alone that caused them to continue arising in order to "pay the debt" of that gross kamma that they had made. When they were reborn, however, they did not pay this debt but increased it, creating the twin conditions of male and female resulting in subtle Rupa fixed inside the five senses and again causing the twin conditions up to their present becoming. By the power of this gross kamma within the subtle Rupa of the five senses, they coalesced, spinning together into a "ball of atoms" persisting as Rupa by ceaselessly orbiting itself. It is the "cave" inside which the citta resides and is called "Rupa-Vinnana" or copied form. This is because it is copied by Nama through the eyes, ears, nose, tongue and body and becomes subtle Rupa latent within the void. Rupa-Vinnana which has life span, remains longer than gross Rupa and has gross kamma to keep it spinning and persisting. There is no god who can destroy this, only Nibbana can, Rupa-Vinnana would then disappear.

That which performs the kamma of beings and lies within the subtle Rupa and is aided by the eyes, ears, nose, tongue and body, is called "Citta" and in the citta's place of work are the five consciousness (i.e., of eye, ear, etc.,). These five senses together are the central work place for the "Central Citta" which is in contact with the outside world by way of these five senses. Citta and consciousness (Vinnana) are therefore not identical. Citta is "the one who knows". Consciousness is that which is the "cave " of the citta and the vehicle that leads it to rebirth or wherever it may go. It is the thing that maintains the citta. The subtle Rupa, the Rupa that is copied from the gross Rupa, has form of male and female, eyes, ears, nose, tongue and body and lies within the rebirth causing consciousness.

When beings die the gross Rupa of the body goes according to its age limit and species. The real life, the "Atomic Rupa-Vinnana" (Rupa-Paramanu-Vinnana) will not die and disappear, it will be reborn into various worlds according to causes and conditions of the cycle of continued existence (Vattha) that changes and spins endlessly.

Real life, "copied Rupa", or consciousness (Vinnana) which orbits around itself, is the cause of the citta being reborn, ceasing and continuing. The citta will receive external and internal contacts and collect both good and evil as the basis for future births and deaths or embellishments until gross kamma, the cause, is ended. Real life, "copied rupa" or "Vinnana" will then stop spinning. Subtle Rupa, Rupa-Vinnana, that arises from gross kamma and from ones beginnings will disappear and dissipate as well as the gross Rupa which cannot remain and will disappear.

As to the good kamma and the Dhamma that are attached to Vinnana, this scatters with the atomic rupa and nothing but the void remains which is but the space between the rupa of the atoms. Free of the rupa of atoms, that emptiness is pure and bright. Purity and light, light and purity or the original universe, this is called "Nibbana".

The citta that is sent outside is Samudaya. (Cause)

The result from sending the citta outside is Dukkha. (Suffering)

Citta seeing citta is Magga. (The Way)

The results of citta seeing citta are Nirodha. (Cessation)

------

Luang Pu Dun

I was born in Thailand, and I belief in buddhism for most of my life. My parents, cousins, relatives, are all buddhism.

Yes, Too many have been killed for their religious beliefs. At the moment I'm not a big fan of any religion. I can talk about others religion like christianity. This is a Budda forum. You can mention all the great things about buddhism in this forum and not the bad stuff make it fair.

This is only my opinion, look around thailand, buddha purpose is end suffering. See anything wrong in thailand. They belife in superstition, and rituals, pray, worship the staue, and these are not solutions for problem.

monk life full of difficulty prohibit to work, we give them money, wear the same cloth, can not touch woman, marry or have family life, no dinner, feed themself from other people, etc.

many more, but I will stop here.

yes, their are bad people in buddha, christ, others religion, but does some of the teaching have infleunce on the people.

My parents are buddhism, when you are young you believed what they told you, like santa claus

They told me to do this do that, all superstition stuffs, where are logic for me doing all this non-sense thing. They do not solve anything. Never that I know of.

Thanks to this forum I can speak my opinion. If you know thai culture talking like this to my family members is unacceptable. I can't even say bad thing about thailand or thai people. I really hate when they take advantages of farangs or tourists.

Please spare me.

Thank you.

Please share us what you have leant from Buddha before claiming that you were a buddhist.

I was born buddhism but I really understood what lord Buddha taught just in recent years.

There are hundreds of technique used by Yogi in those days (and of course thousands of method derived by modern meditation teachers nowaday), but Anapanasati is the (only) technique Lord buddha recommended to his Bhikkhu.

I'm not sure that's quite correct.

I always thought satipatthana, contemplation of the four foundations of mindfulness, was most highly recommended. It's certainly more comprehensive. Anupannasati is in there of course, it's one part of the contemplation of the body section.

Now I think of it he recommended different practices in different sections of the Satipatthana Sutta to suit different types of personality.

Anapanasati Sutr is more than the body part. It combines Samata and Vipassana in one sequence.

The 16 bases cover Body, Wetana, Jit and Dhamm

The first 4 steps deal with body, to know you body and "body in body (your breathing)"

The second 4 steps deal with wetana

The third 4 steps deal with Jit (mind)

and the last 4 steps are pure vipassana, it deal with Dhamma ( impermanence, fading away, cessation and relinquishment)

It's a well defined steps and the saftest way to follow the path.

One advantage is that it can be done anywhere, on the bus, on the train walking, working.

For some people, you can short cut to the third 4 steps (Jit). Use your Jit to teah your Jit.

Jit is something you can't controlled but it can be taught.

What I am practicing is using Sati to keep my Jit with me. Sending Jit out to something else is Samudaya -> Dukkha (Suffering)

Keeping your Jit to see your Jit -> Magga -> Norodha

Jit can learn by seeing itself while it performing things.

Shift from "seeing things" (actor) to "seeing what is seeing things" (observer)

Just observe how your Jit reacts to Lobha, Moha and Dosa.

Just see and know it, don't control it. Jit will learn itself.

Kamma was not what Lord Buddha discovered.

Kamma was in several religions/belief in India long before buddha era.

People in those days believe there are:

1) good Kamma

2) bad kamma

(I believe ) the concept before Buddha era is that you should accumulate good kamma and reduce bad Kamma (something like depoist and withdraw your banking account). The more you accumulate, the closer you are to the nippan (i.e. not rebirth). Some buddhists (also in Thailand) still believe like this.

(I believe that) Lord Buddha introduced a third kamma, "not either good or bad kamma" which is used to "end" kamma.

It may be not easy for some people to start with the third kamma. So Lord Buddha introduced evolutionally way to the path:

1) reduce bad kamma

2) increase good kamma

and final evolution

3) stay above good and bad kamma

I remember when I was a kid, buddhist teachers in school always teach something like this:

"practice goodness, avoid badness, purify your mind" and they don't explain more (problably they don't know either).

I was silly then to think that it's a simple teaching (of course I was a kid then). I thought the 3 phrases are the same thing. I thought that when you avoid doing bad, doing only good thing, your mind will be purify, simple like that! That's very silly thought.

I know now that it's the steps to dissolve "Atta". The hi-light is the 3rd phrase, purify your mind. That's what one have to do, to purify your mind, to stay above good or bad kamma (intentionally or not, I don't know)

Is this in the THERAVADA tradition ? Because when I Googled Patitjasamupbat

It brought back to this page. Hmmmmm Could you tell me where to look for this.

The Pali word is Paticcasamuppāda, the english translation is Dependent Origination.

You'll have more luck with these.

Nudee is using a Thai-ised Pali in phonetic english script.

Thank you Brucenkhamen. I never known how to write it in correct romanized way. It's difficult even in Thai to write it right. It's even harder for me to write this word - Paticcasamuppāda :-)

Is this in the THERAVADA tradition ? Because when I Googled Patitjasamupbat

It brought back to this page. Hmmmmm Could you tell me where to look for this.

It's my Thai way to spell it. Pali/sanskrit is mixed into the Thai language so that I don't really know what the original Pali it is. Don't know how to romanize it correctly either. So don't try google it, you will find only my post :-)

See this instead: http://www.84000.org/tipitaka/dic/d_item.php?i=340

It's a good place to learn each element in the Iddhappajayata-Patitjasamupbat since it contains both Thai and some English teaching. I am not sure whether the existing English tripitaka was complete translated. You may miss some essential chapter/content if learning in the English version only.

Again, this is the theory part only. We need to pratice (to learn what causes suffering, how to end it etc,) and a good (probably the best) way is through Anapanasati, which is the technique/vehicle Lord Buddha recommened to his Bhikkhu see http://www.84000.org/tipitaka/dic/d_item.php?i=346 (some English translation)

and

http://www.84000.org/tipitaka/read/?14/282-291/190-202 (Thai only) for the details of the 16 steps Lord Buddha taught his Bhikkhu in thoese days.

There are hundreds of technique used by Yogi in those days (and of course thousands of method derived by modern meditation teachers nowaday), but Anapanasati is the (only) technique Lord buddha recommended to his Bhikkhu. So, it's best to learn Anapanasati rather than learning other less efficient techniques. And the best place to learn Anapanasati is from Tripitaka directly. It's just my humble opinion but probably useful for people here who want to walk the same path Lord Buddha did 2500 years ago.

Please note that although born Buddhist, I am just a student (not a teacher) in this field. Probably someone else will have a better way than the way I choose. :-)

Direct Dependent Origination (Patitjasamupbat)

Dependent on lgnorance (avitsha) arise Kamma-Formations (sangkala)

Dependent on Kamma-Formations (sangkala) arise Consciousness (winyan)

Dependent on Consciousness (winyan) arise Mind and Matter (nam and roop)

Dependent on Mind and Matter (nam and roop) arise the Six Sense-Bases. (ayatana)

Dependent on the Six Sense-Bases (ayatana) arises Contact (passa)

Dependent on Contact (passa) arise Feeling (wetana)

Dependent on Feeling (wetana) arise Craving (tanha)

Dependent on Craving (tanha) arises Clinging (upatan, attachment)

Dependent on Clinging (upatan) arises Becoming (pob)

Dependent on Becoming (pob) arises Birth (chati)

Dependent on Birth arise Decay and Death (chara and morana)

There also arise sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and despair.

Thus arises this whole mass of suffering.

5 causes in the past (avitsha, sangkala, tanha, upatan, pob) cause 5 effects in present (vinyan, nam & roop, ayatana, passa and wetana)

5 causes in the present (avitsha, sangkala, tanha, upatan, pob) cause 5 effects in the future (vinyan, nam & roop, ayatana, passa and wetana)

Those factors continue driving the wheel of existence.

That's the core of buddhism. It's the law of nature (suffering of beings in this case) discovered by lord buddha 2500 years ago. Its principle is based on iddhappajayata which is the megalaw which cover just about everything in the nature. It's the law which seperate science and pseudo-science and it's the same principle of today's science.

To start on buddhism, you need to start with this law so that you won't get lost on what foreign to the original teaching of Lord Buddha.

Is this in the THERAVADA tradition ? Because when I Googled Patitjasamupbat

It brought back to this page. Hmmmmm Could you tell me where to look for this.

See this:

http://www.84000.org/tipitaka/dic/d_item.php?i=340

Thank you for sharing and good advice. Before I started reading Patitjasamupbat, iddhappajayat, passa, etc. I had so many questions in Dharma as my thoughts was clung on modern lifestyle, how we were raised, taught in school, workplace, society. I might be given up or still confusing if I didn't read the core Dharma (not confusing interpretations ) and also practice meditation to gain the result from what I read.

Yes, anapanasati is the technique lord Buddha used to seek samati/panya (light). Meditation is an ancient technique used by yoki long before buddha's era. Lord Buddha was lucky he had this technique to help learning the law of nature.

Sadly, many buddhists nowaday think meditation is all about buddhism. So, many people are just happy with meditation and some even go the wrong way using it to perform magic :-) That's because they don't know where to go next. They don't take a look at what lord buddha discovered with his anapanasati under the great Bo. So, they don't know what to do next with meditation technique.

Please remember that meditation is only the technique lord buddha used to seek samati/panya and that's all about it. If you know what you are to do next with meditation, then at least you are in the right path.

Pattijasamubbat is the theory, anapanasati is the practice. It's a long way to go before you can shade the light (panya) which will end avitcha and hence end the wheel of existence (nippan).

When you are at the right door to cross to the other side, the hardest part for you is to leave your desire to cross it because that's a big chunk of atta itself :-)

Direct Dependent Origination (Patitjasamupbat)

Dependent on lgnorance (avitsha) arise Kamma-Formations (sangkala)

Dependent on Kamma-Formations (sangkala) arise Consciousness (winyan)

Dependent on Consciousness (winyan) arise Mind and Matter (nam and roop)

Dependent on Mind and Matter (nam and roop) arise the Six Sense-Bases. (ayatana)

Dependent on the Six Sense-Bases (ayatana) arises Contact (passa)

Dependent on Contact (passa) arise Feeling (wetana)

Dependent on Feeling (wetana) arise Craving (tanha)

Dependent on Craving (tanha) arises Clinging (upatan, attachment)

Dependent on Clinging (upatan) arises Becoming (pob)

Dependent on Becoming (pob) arises Birth (chati)

Dependent on Birth arise Decay and Death (chara and morana)

There also arise sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and despair.

Thus arises this whole mass of suffering.

5 causes in the past (avitsha, sangkala, tanha, upatan, pob) cause 5 effects in present (vinyan, nam & roop, ayatana, passa and wetana)

5 causes in the present (avitsha, sangkala, tanha, upatan, pob) cause 5 effects in the future (vinyan, nam & roop, ayatana, passa and wetana)

Those factors continue driving the wheel of existence.

That's the core of buddhism. It's the law of nature (suffering of beings in this case) discovered by lord buddha 2500 years ago. Its principle is based on iddhappajayata which is the megalaw which cover just about everything in the nature. It's the law which seperate science and pseudo-science and it's the same principle of today's science.

To start on buddhism, you need to start with this law so that you won't get lost on what foreign to the original teaching of Lord Buddha.

A Comment from a monk who studied buddhism the whole life (from his 20 to his 80).

My English is not good enough to translate it. May be someone here can do it.

====

While many people and also the English translation of Thailand's constitution call Buddhism a religion I have always held and continue to hold the view that Buddhism is a philosophy, not a religion, but perhaps this is a mere question of semantics.

--

Maestro

And I hold the view that it is psychology first, that became a philosophy and later a religion

Buddhism is never been philosophy nor religion. It is science and the lord buddha is a scientist, a great scientist who studied "law of nature". And his greatest theory is called "Iddhappajjayata". One subset of this theory is called "Patijasamupbat" which is the "law of the nature of suffering". Buddhist use this scientific theory to end their suffering. It's not philosophy nor religion and will never be.

Does anyone know where I can get a copy of this book (english translation) in Phuket?? I have just started to study pali writings and this is the first book I am going to read, good choice??

You can read Dhammapada online in Thai, Pali (Thai character) and English at http://larndham.net/dmbot/

Click on link on the left panel to view each verse.

Remember one thing before you study, what lord buddha discovered was "how to end the suffering" and nothing else. Please stick with it and you won't get lost.

Thank you Nudee for sharing your explanation of the Dhamma.

To me it is a very good explanation and it is a great assistance in helping me to understand better.

I am glad you get it. Now just leave what I explained here because it's kind of useless. Don't carry it with you because Dhamma cannot be explained in words/letter. It can bring you to the door but not able to make you cross it. You need to cross it by yourself.

You need to use your Panya.

Everybody already has Panya, but we put some kind of filters in front of it so we cann't see it.

Samati is like a fire, Panya is the light form the fire. They are the same thing not two seperated entities.

The thicker your filter is, the more difficult you will see the light. And that's why even after someone read 84,000 chapters in Tripitaka, they won't understand a bit about Dhamma (because of the thinkness of their filter). If you have a very thin filter, you can shortcut using Zen technique. Several monks in China can cross the door in a sudden manner just by listening to people who has "been there, done that".

Most monks in Thailand are sticked to Tripitaka or meditation technique, which I think is for people with "thick filter" people. Many of them has thin-filter but riding wrong vehicles so it doesn't give good result. If you have thin-filter, I suggest going Zen way.

My filter is kind of thick. so don't get serious with my little knowledge about Dhamma. I am not the one who "been there, done that" so please don't believe me. Just try to cross the door by your self and come back to bring us along with you :-)

It's already passed. It's no use to think about it now. It just make yourself suffering.

You did the "right" thing giving the money.

Even you didn't give him the money, you also did the "right" thing.

It has nothing to do with his "monkhood".

But you are not doing the "right" thing thinking/worrying about it now.

Think about how many days you have been suffering with this question.

You should leave it at the bus stop instead of carrying it back home.

Dear Nudee

Thank you very much for taking time and posting the answer.

I really appreciate it very much.

Thank you Jamesc2000. I don't want to debate on this. Just want to share my interpretation of Dhamma.

It may not be correct but I believe it's pretty much the idea.

Sea exists, Wind exists -> Wave exists

Sea exists, no wind -> no wave

You can observe that in your daily life. There are times when you are in peace and times when you are angry, glad, jeolous, etc. That is how you are born and reborn in terms of Buddhism. It's suffering.

Now, put a big container to cover the sea. even when wind exists -> no wave. You can do this by using method like meditation to control it, catch it and break the chain using Sati (which is as fast as lightning)

However, the sea still exists. As soon as you remove the container, you are subject to reborn. And so this's not the final destination.

You have to remove the sea (Avitcha). That can be done using Panya. To have Panya you need Samati.

Samati exists -> Panya Exists -> Avitcha not exist -> Vitcha exists

Samati not exists -> Panya not Exist -> Avitcha exists -> Vitcha not exist

Samati and Panya is the 2 sides of the coin. Loosing Samati is loosing Panya.

That's all what I know. The rest is to reach it by yourself.

we are however created as a result of the existance of an instant ago.

If we are created then who is the creator?

There is no "creator" concept in Buddhism.

There is only 'birth'

something like this:

input -> [Function1] -> output1 -> [Function2] -> output 2 -> [Function3] -> output 2 and so on..

This is called "Ittappayajatta" all "rule", "Law', "Kot" whatever you call it.

Everything is under this law. There is actually no input nor output. There exist only functions (Dhamma).

If input exists, output exist

if input not exists, output also not exist

Dhamma (function(s)) always exists. Dhamma is already there, no creator.

Like mentioned above, everything is under some laws (function1, function2, etc) including rock, trees, tables, sky moon and you.

You are nothing but an outout from a sequence of 11 functions called "pajittasamupbat" which is a subset of "Ittappayajatta". These functions exists in all beings and which cause "suffer".

There are so many laws in the nature and it's kind of useless to learn them all. The main purpose of Lord Buddha's searching is to elimiate "suffer" so these 11 functions are essential for all buddhist.

Each day, you are born several times as a result from external inputs and your passa (output of function5) and becoming the input of the next function until reaching the final output (birth)

If thre is no external inputs, you are not born (no you)

when external inputs come to join your passa, you are born.

So, you can avod being born by staying in a way that there is no external input inputs to make you born. Actually you are in this state several times a day. This is temporary nippan.

To control this, you can catch and break the function6, function7 with your Sati.

This is like trying to clean a mirror all days so there is no dust on the mirror. But once you forget to clean it (catch and break it with your Sati), dust is born. So, this is also temporaty nippan.

To reahc real nippan state, you need to take out the mirror. If no mirror, even there are so many dust in the air, there will be no dust on the mirror.

And the mentioned mirror is actually "input1" above. It's called "Avitcha". To make "Avitcha" disappear, you turn it to "Vitcha" using what's called "Panya" and that's it. No functions can be executed.

Simple like that but it's useless until you proof it by yourself.

I am buddhist all my life and I don't think buddha rejected the existence of god. Rather he rejected the existence of everything. No you, no me, no everything and that's the implication by non-buddhists that he rejected the existence of god.

In buddhism, you and me (and everything else) is only a "state" of your "soul/conciousness" derived from "nescience". Lord Buddha seeked the way for human to extinguish suffering.

This is what the theory behind everything Lord buddha discovered:

avidya ( nescience) is the cause of sangkaanra (Mental formation)

sangkaanra (Mental formation) is the cause of winyaana (conciousness)

winyaana (conciousness) is the cause of roopa (Physical form which has given rise to the body)

roopa is the cause of ayatana (Sense)

ayatana is the cause of passa (touch, mental impression)

passa is the cause of wetanaa (feelings and sensation)

wetanaa is the cause of tanha (craving)

tanhaa is the cause of upadana (attachment)

upadana is the ucase of bhava (sould state)

bhava is the cause of chart (becoming, existence)

chart is the cause of dukkha (suffering)

(Sorry if I made wrong romanized Bali here. )

Buddha was teaching how to eleminate dukkha (suffering) and to do that you need to trace back to the root cause by just reverse the above until you can eliminate avidya and that's when you are in nippan state (farangs called it nirvana).

You can reach temporaty nippan by either:

1) environmentally. If you take a closer look in yourself, you will find some moment when you are in state of no feeling (good or bad). It will not last but it's the state of nippan

2) you can force it (thorugh meditation etc). This is also temporary nippan. You learn how to immitate the state of nippan by force.

3) you can learn it. This is the permanent nippan state when you use your wisdom/insigh learning by practice how to eliminate the cause of your dukkha until you found nothing (anatta, non-self). It's hard but according to several arahants, it can be done while you are alife.

I am far from nippan, but this is all what I've learned and think essential. All other things (four nobles, etc) are just only the theory for different type of people (with different wisdom) to understand the Dhamma. You have to understand that Busshism is more than 2500 year olds. Some theory was added along to help people understanding it better, but most of them just make people more confuse (like this theory of god rejection) :-)

So, if this question of the lord buddha really rejected the existence of god is important to you then you really are suffering :-)