jenniferjuniper

The sheer horror of the suffering is unimaginable to most of the West and their stoicism in its face must be because of the Buddhist faith underpinning their daily existence. Faustian perhaps but in their world ultimately there was no Mephistopheles, only release and maybe rebirth.

I look at my wife and know who is the stronger and therein lies my salvation ( or insurance! ).

Farang P, do you get down to Bourbon St., Washington Sq.? If so, maybe catch you up sometime ......

Thanks for your reply Farang Prince and for taking time out to relate your experiences. Personal accounts from whichever side are always sobering.

I caught a lot of stuff by Tim Page who made a name for himself taking photos and chances until a landmine nearly killed him. He's still a casualty and seems as hooked on Nam now as he ever was. Nam was the biggest thing that ever happened to him and in a way it has become his life to the point that nothing could fill the void when it all ended.

I remember his quote about how war is glamour...the sun going down, helicopter gunships dancing overhead exploding ordnanace among the swaying palms with him in the middle of it all snapping shots like some crazed choreographer blessed with the immortality of callow youth.

"Not really, at least not until there's a global court system. if you mean this tragedy should be covered in international media, it is, albeit to a steadily diminishing degree, as happens with crime anywhere in the world."

No, I was responding to your earlier comment that it didn't matter who was "right" or "wrong" on a global sense. It does matter when people from an international sphere have to face off with Thailand's legal/judiciary system, and more people are watching.

True, and all the more reason it's important to view the entire context for the tragedy. This goes back to what I tried to point out earlier, i.e., if one acknowledges that the Thai law enforcement and judicial systems are corrupt, and justice cannot be had, then you must acknowledge that any verbal or physical affront to individuals who are part of that system is very, very risky.

Yeah, good point and adding insult to injury is seeing people who should know better on this forum going along with the rubbish the cops are peddling as if anything they, or their phoney witnesses, said had any merit whatsoever. All this analysing about what has been reported in the press as if the ' answer ' could be extracted is just so foolish and if anything all helps to smokescreen the bad guy's exit.

As I said before( ) justice in this country is something you stick in your drink.

Hey, we are living in a gerontocracy. What if Tina Turner and Cher stopped singing when they were 25? Look up the accomplishments in old age of a Milwaukee school teacher named Golda Mier, or of Gandhi, or Churchill after age 40...Ronald Reagan; Jimmy Carter after the White House; the list goes on and on.

The fat lady has not sung.

Yes she has, maybe you should turn the hearing aid on

Yeah, and you can always pay a little " headache " money if the washer woman hits the spot which aint an option with a toploader......

Thanks John and I salute your Sis. Thank God we had skilled and dedicated professionals like her in country...they saved thousands of lives.

I just checked Wikipedia and found out that 5 million Vietnamese died during the " American War ", 4 million civilians, 1 million military and 600, 000 wounded. God knows how many have been affected by the defoliant agent Orange, both Americans and Vietnamese.

Best to keep some sort of perspective going but I'm not taking potshots.

You guys are lucky to be alive and have every right to take a stroll down memory lane. You went as young men and survived a war which most of us have never experienced but secretly would like to. I'm still fascinated by ithe conflict and read up on it whenever something new comes along.

I read Michael Herr's Dispatches and thought it captured what it might have been like. Any truth to that?

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With respect, living in a 30 sqm room with no hot water is as close to being on skid row as you can get. No hot water? How on earth do you shower?

The world industrialised 230 years ago. As a result, many nations became relatively rich and their citizens got to enjoy the benefits of living in multi-room homes with hot and cold running water, plumbing, sanitation etc.

I'm assuming you once lived in a home with hot water, so I'll repeat my question. Why does it feel so good to be going backwards?

Noone is going to convince me that living in a room barely bigger than a prison cell with no hot water is a sign that a person's life is heading in the right direction .. . .

Some people live in palaces but inside their heads they're imprisoned by a cell smaller than any of us could imagine. I think I'm getting the hang of this Buddhist lark grasshopper!

Whatever pulls your chain mate, whatever pulls your chain. Maybe you're the type of geezer that thinks the bigger everything he has, the better person he is.

Good luck to you pal but you can fill only one hole at a time.

Yes I was just addressing a question, people can choose how they want to kill themselves. This is all about taking someone else out with you when your busy killing yourself.

This new law is all about taking out slow motion suicide bombers. We hear about the non slow motion suicide bombers everyday killing themselves and killing or injuring everyone around them. I can't see any difference except for the time involved.

Nothing quite like keeping a sense of proportion, eh mate?

Gawd knows what you think when people get in their cars? Weapons of mass destruction I expect.

What's the attraction other than debortuary?

Would that be when you shag your way to the mortuary?

Spent '66 - 69 ' in Singapore discovering the Beach Boys, Wilson Pickett, The Doors, girls with ping pong balls, Tolleys brandy, ganja and fell in love with a blonde girl with the reddest lips and bluest eyes.

Didn't kill no-one though but I did watch the newsreels everyday and read the accounts and I kinda felt I was there in spirit if not in body(bag). Funny thing about it all, the most vivid recollection I have of those reports was that after every firefight the dead ***** were piled up in neat rows and counted religiously. Made me think the whole point of keeping count was some magic total would be reached when somebody would claim victory and it would all stop.

Stupid really, but then I grew up and read about Gen.Wastemoreland an' all and realised there was no plan at all.

Sometimes it's best just to be young and dumb. American generals just love that.

Try watching traditional thai dance, or studying thai mythology, natural medicine, cookery or buddhist art, thats what i call fascinating,

Sure, with you there pal on that one but what the heck are we meant to do the next day?

Am I missing something?

Yeah, the point friend,only the point.

Some of us don't need a map drawn and the track we been around too many times ain't always in the same place.

Go figure but don't bust a gut trying too much or maybe your head'll hurt.

Maybe his moniker was Lazarus?

Walking Street is a notorious red light district that attracts sex tourists and perverts from all parts of the world. The place is teaming with whores, pimps, drug addicts, thieves, muggers, pick pockets, scam artists and violent criminals, many carrying knives or guns.

Areas such as these, be they in Los Angeles, Berlin, Hamburg, Amsterdam or wherever are going to be dangerous places to be if you cross the locals.

I am not defending what happened, and maybe if it had occurred elsewhere the thugs might have used a bit more restraint to ensure they didn't have a murder on their hands. But this is a 3^rd world country, where the police are in league with the criminals and corruption rules.

So frankly what else could you expect if a few foreigners decided to take on the locals? The result was inevitable, and would be so almost anywhere in the world in similar circumstances in a similar environment.

Walking Street is a cesspit, and if you decide to enter the pit you have to be prepared for the possible outcome. There are plenty of decent places in Thailand where you can walk around and enjoy life in relative safety.

RIP to the unfortunate victim

I could count on one hand the number of times I and the missus have been up Walking Street and 3 of those times was to access the Blues Factory.

Sure there are pole bars and all that but to sensationalise it as a street of shame riddled with danger is just an exaggeration and something the typical tabloid journalist might churn out.

The great majority wandering up and down are just rubber necking tourists taking in the atmosphere.Add to the mix groups of lads from just about anywhere in the world having a few beers and laughs and ordinary couples off to the clubs for a bop( can't remeber the names but I think there were 2, didn't stay long 'cos the music was hippity hop and all drums and tizz) brushing shoulders with Russian tour groups and dopy Koreans and what have you. Never saw any perverts but I s'pose their labels must have dropped off by the time they had finished with their perverting.

In a way its exciting and everyone I have seen seemed to all enjoy it for what it obviously is.

The cops looked to be on top of things and were there most of the night. Mind you when it gets to half past chucking out time they seemed to have all disappeared but most cops do that when they think its going dead. 'Spect they need a break anyway after the night's hassle dealing with the drunks and heated domestics.

This fight could have happened anywhere and ended like all rucks fuelled by booze and dope. The Thais ganging up is typical but most bouncers look out for their own don't they? The only difference in Thailand is that the silly buggers always go over the top and tool up with something nasty.

Walking Street is not a cesspit and anyone who thinks different probably hasn't been there much or has led bit of a sheltered life.

Thanx for the replies.

Perhaps it is just the power of advertising but I still have the feeling the Nissan is the way to go. Any bias against Isuzu is probably because I currently have a Saab but will never buy a new model which is just a Vauxhall Vectra in drag courtesy of General Motors. Isuzu used to provide the diesels for the Saab range but they were regarded as a bit agricultural and I believe they have now been replaced by Alfa Romeo/Fiat engines.

Anyways, I have still another year to go at least before shelling out.

P.S. No doubt the Fortuner is a grand car but I would be a little fearful of taking it out into the bush during the rainy season.

Well done Mr Boj.

I went down that road with my missus and it worked a treat but my Irishness is 100%.

You know what Wellington said about the Irish; they make dam n fine soldiers, provided they have white officers!

Went to the Bull's Head Suk 33 and bought their fags.The awful cancer warning photos were covered up by their own labels appealing to what smokers appreciate e.g Smoking is cool and makes you taller. Very funny and I bought loads.

If second hand smoking was bad for you then charcoal ovens and outdoor wood fires as used by billions would claim a lot more deaths but this phenomenon does not seem to occur. Explain that, passive smokers who don't like paying the tax we smokers are lumbered with!

Anyway smokers drink more and more regularly than non smokers.Capitalism dictates the majority spenders rule and picky, anaemic, girly non smokers can haul ass out of our bars and set up their own like the willy woofters did.

Ok.

Currently still amassing the dosh but I think 2009 may well be the year I actually retire to LoS, fingers crossed and all and will buy a general purpose pair of wheels capable of anything. Don't know exactly where we will be " permanently " but trips up country and round about suggest something rugged will be needed.The Toyota fortuner is NOT an option or indeed any other poser girly weekend warrior car!

During our trip last year I visited an Isuzu showroom looking at the DMax model. It seemed to tick the boxes and the price was very competitive but getting back home to the Uk I did some research and established it was just a variant of an older model with an engine knocked out by GM shared under their Chevy badge.Admittedly, what Isuzu don't know about diesel engine manufacture isn't probably worth knowing but it still begs the question, is their alliance with GM likely to produce a vehicle as good as a wholly owned Jap concern?

The Nissan Navarra is reported as the more modern and according to the motoring press here it even has the edge over the Toyota Vigo.

What do members think?