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JohnPeel
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Hello members. My name is Ian Newton. My wife and I are free!!!. We were in prison for 22 months. I won't even begin to describe the conditions there. This website ran an article on me and my wife, when we got busted in Phuket for heroin in October 2005 on our yacht. First off my name really is Ian Newton. No false passport as averred by the police. I was born in the UK but grew up in New Zealand. We had nothing to do with the drug bust. There were no drugs found on us or our property. We are totally innocent as we proved in court!! The Judge said that there were no grounds for the arrest and imprisonment of us by the police. There was no evidence at all, linking us to the crime during the 4 months surveillance by the police, nor in the following 24 months that it took to hear our case and be set free. Not that the police didn't try! It is not easy to win a case like this in Thailand. If any of you want the full story, please let me know and I will send it. I do note that one of our members did have his doubts. He was right about the hearsay but wrong about the passport. Cheers people. Ian Newton.
Be cool here. You will receive all sorts of advice, some good. But first forget completely about the Thai newspapers.
Your case was reported incorrectly as usual because the Thai journalists prints what the police say. If they dont they would cease to function on their local patch. The 'farang' newspapers here are no better.
If you want to go for high profile you will need to select a news organisation in your home country. UK? New Zealand?
With the latter there are less rewards and the news organisations wont pay vast amounts of money I guess - unless a TV operation can actually do a sting.
The main question I pose myself is why? It appears you were put on a watch list probably by the DEA, who if I'm guessing correctly,probably initiated this otherwise they wd not have been invited along.
If you believe it is just Thais who came across you because you were in the same hotels in Bangkok and Phuket then I guess the DEA would have wanted to sit in on any interviews conducted with you and your wife. Did they?
From my experience the DEA (who may have even supplied the heroin as part of a sting) do try and make an attempt at intelligence gathering after an arrest. Did you co-operate or refuse to say anything? I would have screamed my innocence from the rooftops!!
DEA suggests HK Chinese sending to USA of course. Its not unusual for H to go from BKK to Phuket (and now Krabi) before going international.
Have the police come up with a list of items seized and why did not the marina protect the yacht?
That fact that you were robbed of your possessions is usual in Thailand in cases like this (sad to say). They assume u ur not coming out.
The prosecutor's main reason for appealing (and this will take four years) may of course be to prevent you from sueing. If you lose the appeal you then go to Supreme Court - another four years. This invariably happens, especially in farang cases.
You might be able to get permission from the court to go home. Discuss this with your lawyer. This is probably what everyone wants and you can tell your story in safety. Did you get the trial transcripts or at least the judgment translated into English
After from the silly incident involving the laced ganja can you show a clean previous record?
I know this is not necessarily relevant to this offence but it may be relevant to a news organisation who will 100 per cent need to present a sympathetic character. (Warren Fellowes in 'The Damage Done' was pretty much an amoral sleaze-bag).
Hope this helps - and if I can let me know.
Thanks for your interest and advice. The DEA were in this at the first (found that out from one of my HK case partners) as they had picked up a tip that there was a big drug thing going down here. The two HK guys (who were just boys as you said) were followed from HK all the way here. They got me out of a video surveilance camera at a hotel in Bangkok. They ran me through their computer and saw that I had a prior. They then followed us until the time we were arrested. They did not interview me after Phuket. They, the Taiwan drug police and the HK drug police did a lot of interviews of the two HK guys at the police head quarters here in Bangkok. I am telling you that they knew dam well that my wife and I had nothing to do with this. But I had a prior right, so I'm scum anyway and must deserve going away even if i'm not connected to this particular bust. They were way over the top man. No one seems to know where the H came from. The two guys picked it up from an apartment here in Bangkok.
As for my earlier record, I've been done for grass a few times but nothing here ever. Been straight up here nothing to hide. As to going back to the UK or NZ, I have nothing at either of those places and thanks to this my name is shit now any way. You should know, once you're on the news you're guilty right? Just my step mum in NZ and my folks in the UK kicked me out of there and sent me to live with rllies in NZ when I was 3 years old. This is where i'm at and We have a beautiful place just outside Bangkok (puttamonton sai2) that is all ours free of debt. It's worth around 9 mill according to the land department. Spent many hours doing it up myself. What I cant get my head around is my yacht. What do I do about that? It needs anti fouling real bad or the worm will get in. Then there is the damage that the police did to it when they crashed another boat into it. We dont have the $$ to fix it and it does need a fair amount of maintenance or it will sink soon. When I asked the police about it they told me it my problem. They dont care if it sinks!! So sue them they say. I have a lot of my court papers translated into english but not all. Could get the rest done but cant afford it. Man what a mess. If you can see an angle that I cant that would help us out, I would love you to tell me. Nothing to stop me chartering the yacht, but I need doe to get it sea worthy. We are also concerned that the police may try to leave a little present on board. Have friends looking after now but who knows?? Owe the marina a fortune in mooring fees, but the manager trusts me to pay it eventually. Cheers. Mitch Newton.
Many thanks for that: Now playing devil's advocate a little bit. According to cuttings New Zealand police were also involved in this as well as the DEA.
Now that you mention that you have other offences for ganga (moving it?) if I were them and your name came up in connection with a triad gang I would assume you had moved to the heavy stuff. Its not a big leap.
(Yes I know ganga dealers say they dont touch smack but that is an assertion which time after time has proved wrong. There was a time when ganga was getting higher prices btw in Japan for example)
The fact that you have a house and yacht obviously begs the question in what trade were you involved to get the cash to make those purposes.)
In terms of the trial Thai police will fit up evidence anyway. They cant help themselves. And they like to have lots of photos.I have seen them do this at first hand even when the defendant has pleaded guilty.
But you do seem to agree that Thai police took hundreds of pictures of you under surveillance over two months, which does seem to suggest that even before the HK boys arrived, you were a suspect in the SAME operation.
Another point of view might be that this was an arrest that the Thai police screwed up but the DEA et all did not want to let you get away. My sincere apologies for posing this theory. I am sure there are appropriate answers.
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Hello members. My name is Ian Newton. My wife and I are free!!!. We were in prison for 22 months. I won't even begin to describe the conditions there. This website ran an article on me and my wife, when we got busted in Phuket for heroin in October 2005 on our yacht. First off my name really is Ian Newton. No false passport as averred by the police. I was born in the UK but grew up in New Zealand. We had nothing to do with the drug bust. There were no drugs found on us or our property. We are totally innocent as we proved in court!! The Judge said that there were no grounds for the arrest and imprisonment of us by the police. There was no evidence at all, linking us to the crime during the 4 months surveillance by the police, nor in the following 24 months that it took to hear our case and be set free. Not that the police didn't try! It is not easy to win a case like this in Thailand. If any of you want the full story, please let me know and I will send it. I do note that one of our members did have his doubts. He was right about the hearsay but wrong about the passport. Cheers people. Ian Newton.
Be cool here. You will receive all sorts of advice, some good. But first forget completely about the Thai newspapers.
Your case was reported incorrectly as usual because the Thai journalists prints what the police say. If they dont they would cease to function on their local patch. The 'farang' newspapers here are no better.
If you want to go for high profile you will need to select a news organisation in your home country. UK? New Zealand?
With the latter there are less rewards and the news organisations wont pay vast amounts of money I guess - unless a TV operation can actually do a sting.
The main question I pose myself is why? It appears you were put on a watch list probably by the DEA, who if I'm guessing correctly,probably initiated this otherwise they wd not have been invited along.
If you believe it is just Thais who came across you because you were in the same hotels in Bangkok and Phuket then I guess the DEA would have wanted to sit in on any interviews conducted with you and your wife. Did they?
From my experience the DEA (who may have even supplied the heroin as part of a sting) do try and make an attempt at intelligence gathering after an arrest. Did you co-operate or refuse to say anything? I would have screamed my innocence from the rooftops!!
DEA suggests HK Chinese sending to USA of course. Its not unusual for H to go from BKK to Phuket (and now Krabi) before going international.
Have the police come up with a list of items seized and why did not the marina protect the yacht?
That fact that you were robbed of your possessions is usual in Thailand in cases like this (sad to say). They assume u ur not coming out.
The prosecutor's main reason for appealing (and this will take four years) may of course be to prevent you from sueing. If you lose the appeal you then go to Supreme Court - another four years. This invariably happens, especially in farang cases.
You might be able to get permission from the court to go home. Discuss this with your lawyer. This is probably what everyone wants and you can tell your story in safety. Did you get the trial transcripts or at least the judgment translated into English
After from the silly incident involving the laced ganja can you show a clean previous record?
I know this is not necessarily relevant to this offence but it may be relevant to a news organisation who will 100 per cent need to present a sympathetic character. (Warren Fellowes in 'The Damage Done' was pretty much an amoral sleaze-bag).
Hope this helps - and if I can let me know.
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Agreed. It seems to be going downhill rather fast.
I'd suggest closing it, and when (if) any new evidence is revealed, or news from the actual court case itself is released, then a new topic could be started.
Otherwise it's just going to turn into a flame war.
I'd go along with that. The arguments from both sides have been put forcefully enough now.
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I just returned from Pai, where I was told Sgt Maj Uthai had indeed passed through town. The police chief reportedly ordered him to return to his inactive post in Soppong to await trial and not show his face in Pai again till the trail was over.
Sgt Maj Uthai appears to be in worse shape than ever, drinking-wise, according to acquaintances of his. If he is indeed carrying a weapon, it's a travesty the police haven't confiscated it. He obviously doesn't have the pistol used the night of the shootings, and as far as anyone knows the only time he's ever fired a weapon outside of target practice was the night he was allegedly provoked by Carly and crew. I suppose finding a replacement in Thailand isn't difficult since police officers buy their own weapons anyway.
The Pai police chief is being transferred out and is currently awaiting his replacement. No idea whether the transfer is routine or related to the crime.
I am sure we are all thankful for the update.
I do find your choice of words interesting - maybe even revealing. I would have thought a more concise and accurate description would have been "the night he shot Carly and crew".
All about emphasis, isn't it
All about peddling the police line
But we can live with that.And the testimony of most witnesses there that night.
Do you actually beleive what you are saying - or have you been in this place for so long that you have gone locoal
I will politely and firmly disagree with you and question your credibility on this subject.
It's not a question of believing, but rather talking to eyewitnesses and trying to understand the picture the collective testimony draws. The majority supported Uthai's allegation that Carly struck first. The DSI, for its part, are taking on board only one set of anonymous out-of-town witnesses.
That said there are discrepancies among all the eyewitness reports, probably most of all among Carly's various versions. I don't know whether we'll ever know the truth 100%, but judging from what I've been told, and from my previous acquaintance with both the cop and the victims, I tend to believe the majority witnesses. In case I've not already made it abundantly clear, that set of facts is in no way an 'apology', it's just the apparent reality (no one who wasn't there themselves can claim to know what really went down).
Where's your credibility, Shah? Talk to any witnesses yourself? I didn't think so. Let's stick to the issues at hand rather than ad hominem attacks, ok?
I should tell you that you sound like a thai politician/cop- flapping your arms around and screaming to look at the facts. Where of course the facts have been conveniently shaped to their own devices. I even remember an early point in the case with a TV interview with the chief and he said with a sure face that we cannot rely on speculation and that the forensics will tell the truth in this case. Well this was before he knew the DSI would get involved and he was counting on the fact that there would be NO FORENSICS as usual.
but to your point - we all know what carly was. thats not the point
I had encountered the police offer in question more than a few times and as soon as I heard somebody was shot by a cop - I knew it was him without even having to ask. how did I know this? well if you knew him too like you would claim then you would have known too. I seem to remember him getting drunk and shooting into the air at a reggae festival a few years ago as well. but again thats not the point either.
we can forget about any witnesses at this point because
1- local thais (or even local falang as demonstrated by your behavior) are no reliable witnesses against police officers - if dont agree with me then what country have you been living in?
2 - most others were shit drunk
3 - giving you the benefit of the doubt we can momentarily exclude the testimony of the rich kids from chaing mai
that leaves us with only
1- Report and Forensics first provided by the local police and then subsequently by the DSI
2 - the End result - RIP
3 - the police officer in question behavior immediately after the shooting.
let us now examine these point in case
1 - I have not read it in detail - but from reports are that the initial police report said something to the effect of the police officer in question being over powered and having to struggle for his gun - shooting from the floor. the subsequent DSI report says something very different. Assuming that the DSI report is FACT then this already discredits the story of the police officer.
2 - end Result - RIP - A nice kid is Dead and some women is wounded. how can you justify or apologize for this. throwing all the facts together - that which we agree upon and not - it cannot justify that kid getting shot. a drunk and out of uniform police officer firing his gun three times at backpackers - whether he was attacked or not - that is not justifyed- he has lost control
3 - The behavior immediately after the shooting. The only facts we can agree on is that he fired three times - and killed one individual - This is undebatable- however immediately after the shooting he ran away. What does this tell us? Well the first thing is that he was not acting in his official capacity of a police officer. because if he was in "Police protect and serve' mode then despite shooting the 'criminal' he would have then called for assistance and controlled the scene. He instead ran off into the darkness. In the country where I was born we have a law called 'hit and run' Meaning if you accidentally hit someone with your car and then run away - you are guilty of a crime and also more likely guilty of it being more than an accident. Not to say that they have a law like this in Thailand - but the foundation of the law is that if you are innocent - you are less likely to run away after the incident.
'THE ISSUE AT HAND'
This is really quite basic. The witness statements, a mass of almost instant ones, gathered by local police from locals, all seemingly identical, have pretty much been discredited by the forensics alone. So much for sj's collective evidence.
The other collective evidence - it was a hair trigger, he was shooting upwards as he was overpowered - has already gone up in smoke.
Either you believe the forensics - Dr. Pornthip and others - or u dont. SJ clearly does not, and prefers the word of local witnesses whom I guess will be shot down IF this case goes thru, if they haven't been already.
SJ has discredited the Thai Human Rights Commission basically saying they have been fitting up evidence. i.e. Carly, he says, was ordered what to say in her final statement.
That Carly Reisig is not everybody's cup of tea is irrelevant. And to suggest that the policeman had some sort of reason to kill Del Pinto and shoot Carly (both unarmed of course) because she 'provoked' doesn't wash.
Actually if SJ can find a local witness who actually SAW the shooting I guess it would be interesting. Because without exception none of the local witnesses actually said that saw Uthai pull the trigger. (They were hidden by parked cars) The Chiang Mai witnesses however did. They are not rich kids. It is a normal stable couple. Anonymous they may be, but they have given evidence and talked to journalists. (Nation)
Nobody in Pai thinks this killing was justifiable.
Actually it is a natural Thai reaction in all high profile cases such as this to come up with an explanation as to the reason, some sort of justification, as all are worried about the affects on tourism.
EG 1. Joe Masheder murder murdered by monk, Kanchanaburi. While the hunt was on for her body police put out the line that she was not dead but her father was involved in insurance scam.
EG 2 Kirsty Jones murdered raped and Chiang Mai: Many excuses here. Kirsty was up for it. First it was a tour guide (who was tortured for a confession) then, an Aussie backpacker, then the guest house owner. Then that the killer had bought sperm on the street and inserted it into her to put the police off etc. Nobody ever found for this crime.
EG 3. Vanessa Arscott and Adam Lloyd murdered Kanchanaburi. Adam made unprovoked assault on policeman, but policeman did not do it, it was an informant called Mr. Yaa., no name, no address, no telephone number, who did it. Journalists attacked by Kanchanaburi police at the trial.
Then of course there are the hundreds who died in the drugs war who of course were not shot by the police but collectively all decided to shoot each other and even in one casae did their own mass grave...in Pai too it seems.
One could go on.
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I just returned from Pai, where I was told Sgt Maj Uthai had indeed passed through town. The police chief reportedly ordered him to return to his inactive post in Soppong to await trial and not show his face in Pai again till the trail was over.
Sgt Maj Uthai appears to be in worse shape than ever, drinking-wise, according to acquaintances of his. If he is indeed carrying a weapon, it's a travesty the police haven't confiscated it. He obviously doesn't have the pistol used the night of the shootings, and as far as anyone knows the only time he's ever fired a weapon outside of target practice was the night he was allegedly provoked by Carly and crew. I suppose finding a replacement in Thailand isn't difficult since police officers buy their own weapons anyway.
The Pai police chief is being transferred out and is currently awaiting his replacement. No idea whether the transfer is routine or related to the crime.
I am sure we are all thankful for the update.
I do find your choice of words interesting - maybe even revealing. I would have thought a more concise and accurate description would have been "the night he shot Carly and crew".
All about emphasis, isn't it
All about peddling the police line
But we can live with that.And the testimony of most witnesses there that night.
Here we go again..............and the gun had a hair trigger!
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I left bangkok airport with a friend a while back, he stopped at one of the booths and asked the girl what the allowance was for the uk,she replied 200, he then proceeded to buy 2000, no problem, they couldnt give a toss,.i feel kevin quill was set up,.why would they even bother to check inside packets of cigarettes unless they had information that led them to beleive there may be more to it, the guy i mentioned above was actually stopped at uk customs and his cigarettes were conviscated, they did not open one packet,i witnessed this, he was warned of his allowance and we were on our way in minutes, i smell a big rat and although i dont know kevin quill there is something wrong here for sure,.one of 2 things caused his downfall,he either told someone he did it,or as i suspect they were planted,either way he was grassed up or set up,.i think the latter, i wonder how many packets the police had to open before finding the bad carton,.was the packet marked,?. i suppose we will never know, more proof that greed and jealousy is alive and well in thailand,.Cigarette smuggling was obviously a crime and a stupid crime,Taking 170 cartons of cigarettes out of Thailand is not a crime. It becomes a crime in your own country when you try to enter without declaring them. As long as all relevant taxes were paid on these cigarettes the Thai authorities would not be interested (unless of course somebody planted 100 yaba tablets inside a packet then they would become very interested as this now becomes a nice little earner)
Police did not open any other cartons of cigarettes. The British Consul pointed this out
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I just returned from Pai, where I was told Sgt Maj Uthai had indeed passed through town. The police chief reportedly ordered him to return to his inactive post in Soppong to await trial and not show his face in Pai again till the trail was over.
Sgt Maj Uthai appears to be in worse shape than ever, drinking-wise, according to acquaintances of his. If he is indeed carrying a weapon, it's a travesty the police haven't confiscated it. He obviously doesn't have the pistol used the night of the shootings, and as far as anyone knows the only time he's ever fired a weapon outside of target practice was the night he was allegedly provoked by Carly and crew. I suppose finding a replacement in Thailand isn't difficult since police officers buy their own weapons anyway.
The Pai police chief is being transferred out and is currently awaiting his replacement. No idea whether the transfer is routine or related to the crime.
I am sure we are all thankful for the update.
I do find your choice of words interesting - maybe even revealing. I would have thought a more concise and accurate description would have been "the night he shot Carly and crew".
All about emphasis, isn't it
All about peddling the police line
But we can live with that. -
All three of the farangs involved seem to be sleazy characters. The drugs bust sounds as if it could easily have been a police set up of the type that is only too common in Thailand. It seems incredible that some one would want to smuggle the amphetamines along with the cigarettes to the UK. The cigarette smuggling would be a stupid amateurish crime but would not normally draw a prison sentence in Thailand or the UK. Since 170 cartons would be quite bulky and would create at least a moderate risk of being caught, why would he take a small quantity of speed pills with them, significantly increasing his chances of getting caught with the speed? If he wanted to smuggle speed to sell, why not take a larger quantity and forget about the cigarettes? If the speed was just for personal consumption, then it would still be crazy to carry 170 cartons of cigarettes as well. At the very least a sane man would have put the speed pills somewhere other than in one of the cigarette packets which were likely to attract attention. Perhaps we don't have complete details here but the story sounds dubious to say the least. The Supreme Court's overturning of the Appeal Court's quashed conviction is quite unusual. I wonder on what evidence the Supreme Court based its decision. Also it seems like a fairly small case that the public prosecutor could easily have dropped after Appeal Court's verdict. Thai public prosecutors are notoriously capricious and their reasons for pursuing or not pursuing cases are often quite baffling to outsiders which gives rise to allegations of corruption.
Your absolutely right. No drugs traffickers is going to put 100 yaa baa in a stack of 170 cartons of cigarettes. Its quite laughable.
The court decision? The prosecutors decision to appeal? Well I think Quill may have been indiscreet by saying he was going to sue the socks off the people who did this to him.
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So what is the latest with this individual?
Having read from various sources about the case it appears we are not being given all the relevant information.
For example this case went to the Highest Court in the land who decided that the accused was guilty and he was put back in prison.
If anything is to be said against this ultimate Court judgment then surely those who are saying he is in reality innocent should at least provide us with a full unedited translation of the latest Court decision.
And after providing that information show us precisely where such judgment is in error in law and fact.
Quite frankly it is irrelevant to say that he was innocent just because, for instance, of the fact that the chose not to jump bail.
It is also very serious to make accusations of someone being framed, so where is the "hard evidence" that is the situation?
Some would say he was caught red handed dealing in drugs and deserves all he gets.
Sounds like you just joined this site to put on this comment JIM
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I agree there is a high chance he was framed. But, now what? To overturn his conviction means dealing with things Thai society doesn't deal with. I feel truly sorry for Mr. Q and if he was indeed framed, I hope there is an afterlife with some surprises for those responsible.
I think that the only possible route to take is to try to have Kevin transferred to a UK prison to serve out his time. If he is kept in a Thai prison this could actually be a death sentence given Kevin's state of health. I wish him and his family good luck in achieving the transfer if it's at all possible.
Cheers, Rick.
Sadly it seems you r right. It seems that his son Aaron has been advised by the British Embassy not to kick up a fuss as it could endanger this process.
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So what is the latest with this individual?
Having read from various sources about the case it appears we are not being given all the relevant information.
For example this case went to the Highest Court in the land who decided that the accused was guilty and he was put back in prison.
If anything is to be said against this ultimate Court judgment then surely those who are saying he is in reality innocent should at least provide us with a full unedited translation of the latest Court decision.
And after providing that information show us precisely where such judgment is in error in law and fact.
Quite frankly it is irrelevant to say that he was innocent just because, for instance, of the fact that the chose not to jump bail.
It is also very serious to make accusations of someone being framed, so where is the "hard evidence" that is the situation?
Some would say he was caught red handed dealing in drugs and deserves all he gets.
If you feel that you have the time and the skills to translate the above then go ahead if indeed you can get a copy. This is Thailand and you obviously have no or little experience of the way that things work here.
Rick
The court judgment said basically that the court had no reason to believe that the Pattaya police were lying.
To criticise a judge or his judgment is one of the most serious offences in Thailand. Everybody even with a little knowledge of this case know Quill was framed.
The British Embassy know Kevin Quill was framed. They got that admission from General Noppadol Somboonsap who conducted an investigation. He later lost power. Seems a lot of people here know who did the framing too. The farangs I mean.
Their reaction is: "We feel very sorry for Kevin, but he was a silly boy was'nt he'. That sort of sticks in your throat.
But what has happened to Quill is small in compared to what Thai police have been doing to their own people.
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And tragically, given the boys in brown here, he will have quite enough raw material to last him for ever, or until he becomes a victim himself.......
And there's the rub. I'm a little surprised the Bulldog has actually survived this long on the basis of I hear that 'The Thai police are less likely to kill a farang journalist'. No doubt he will become a victim one day. Sounds like you may be cheering on the sidelines.
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So Pai and it's innocent (mainly, maybe) tourists is just awaiting another tragedy, yes? So A.Drummond Esq had better show responsibility and put out another story fast, warning the world away from Pai until this moron is locked safely away.
Anyone in Pai who cares, Thai or foreigner, should also insist to all in authority that this is done. Pronto.
If it's not, then my only observation can be - get out of Dodge! YOU could be next!!
I'm sure Drummond has found another fresh murder by now.
Better to wonder what the DSI is doing about it.Yes, sadly, Sabajai (and the other - many - posters here with sensitivity), I fear that 'Bulldog' Drummond, having made a great impression, locally, and a big contribution to his bank balance, internationally, has already moved on to the next side show - ie headline-grabbing tragedies elsewhere. And tragically, given the boys in brown here, he will have quite enough raw material to last him for ever, or until he becomes a victim himself.......
Apologies, 'Photojourn'! I was being terribly old fashioned and ingenuous, thinking that REAL journalists had a responsibility to their READERS as well as their editors and their bank accounts. Lord, how out of date can one be?
The extremely disturbing information posted here, which rings true to me, that this (possibly murderous) moron is still wandering around, armed, in a drunken haze, threatening foreign tourists and young women in particular, does merit what responsible scribes would call a 'follow up' story!
One which might (as well as earning MORE cash for you folks) preclude a repeat tragedy. An historically proved benefit of good media around the world, as any REAL police force will tell you.
But of course, if you are not going to risk wasting an air fare or petrol money to Pai because it's possible that no-one else may die in the latter days of this horrific episode impacting the general public, well, that's your decision, yes? An ECONOMIC decision, right?!
Yes. You stick to 'photojournalling' with INCOME at the top of your agenda. Leave the tourists and residents of Pai to their fate. Until and unless you are there with your camera - to chase the next ambulance.
Fair comment perhaps but rather presumptous and cynical in that you imagine Bulldog made some kind of small fortune on the Pai murder. From the Nation? From Canada? If the current story is true he'll probably get around to doing it in his own time. I dont think its his job to protect the residents of Pai until that time. He's about the only person here who appears to follow up stories I think. Most of them end up here. He does stuff. Sometimes he refuses to do stuff, I guess. But judging by the number of posts here he seemed quite involved in the Pai case. Timing may be an element here.
Lets wait and c what sabaijai says on this............................................................
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So Pai and it's innocent (mainly, maybe) tourists is just awaiting another tragedy, yes? So A.Drummond Esq had better show responsibility and put out another story fast, warning the world away from Pai until this moron is locked safely away.
Anyone in Pai who cares, Thai or foreigner, should also insist to all in authority that this is done. Pronto.
If it's not, then my only observation can be - get out of Dodge! YOU could be next!!
I'm sure Drummond has found another fresh murder by now.
Better to wonder what the DSI is doing about it.My guess he's probably more focused on Burma right now. But as you are the man on the scene perhaps you could enlighten us as to whether the police sergeant is indeed back on the streets at night drinking and armed.
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Insight wrote:Can we also include the "frenzied" response from The Nation? They've took a questionable article from (no-doubt) the middle page of a British Sunday tabloid, made it a front page story and dedicated an entire editorial to it...
It's been rather sad to watch the decline of The Nation over the last couple years. They tacked their shingle to the PAD and Democratic party and rode the tiger. Well and good for a couple years, in fact it looked like they won (!) Taks, the evil dragon was slain, the kingdom saved, happiness and joy and the people rejoiced. Unfortunantly as time went on 06/07/08 they drifted further and further from the idea of "democracy" they so feverently editorialized about ... as if that was ever their intent, and magically morphed into a shill for the Dems. I guess that is what they always were. Still I liked it for many years because it did give a differing view from the Bangkok Posts knee jerk disinformation, deflections and distortions.
Have to agree there. Its lost all direction and news sense. The Daily Xpress did it for me! Get in an American designer listen to him tell you he knows all about tabloids and hey presto. Down the pan. Its an insult to read nowadays. And Thailand is really kidding itself when it says it has freedom of the press.
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What a joke. You two really are a joke. And of course the many thousands of people who have viewed your comments - but not commented - think so too, rather clearly I'd guess..
Where were the Thai reporters in this story? Same place they've always been. Drummond may never win a Pulitzer Prize, but at least he's got balls enough to actually FILE the story - evidently bigger than many of you apologists (sorry Sabajai - please forgive the coarse gender reference).
I agree
I agree too. And the reason why we are not hearing from AD on this matter is I believe that one of the 'apologists' had him banned
Andrew Drummond broke a cardinal rule of this forum and that is why he was banned. Break a serious rule and it gets you banned immediately. Furthermore, discussion of moderation actions is against forum rules, perhaps you need to re-read those rules. Next time you have a question regarding moderation action may I suggest you contact a mod or admin instead of posting in the open forum?
Further such discussion will result in action by me. I hope that is clear enough.
I am merely pointing out what it potently obvious. I have made no reference at all to the moderators on this site.
It is however clear, as you have stated, that the person concerned is no longer taking part in this thread (for whatever reasons)
And that is a loss. Perhaps I am reminding people of the obvious.
Meanwhile of course certain members and I dont need to mention any names, continue to post snide comments. Is that not a fair enough statement to make in the open forum? If not then we are really not going to find the truth here are we?
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What a joke. You two really are a joke. And of course the many thousands of people who have viewed your comments - but not commented - think so too, rather clearly I'd guess..
Where were the Thai reporters in this story? Same place they've always been. Drummond may never win a Pulitzer Prize, but at least he's got balls enough to actually FILE the story - evidently bigger than many of you apologists (sorry Sabajai - please forgive the coarse gender reference).
I agree
I agree too. And the reason why we are not hearing from AD on this matter is I believe that one of the 'apologists' had him banned
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Sad thing is how many posters here think this story is actually true and cant spot tabloid nonsense when they read it.
You'd think that if it was true then the City fans posting on Bluemoon Forum would be up in arms. As it is, they are sensible enough to dismiss the story as a lame attempt to sell papers.
Well if you click on this clink u r not going to see much complimentary about Mr.Sinatra
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>>But of course, if you are not going to risk wasting an air fare or petrol money to Pai because it's possible that no-one else may die in the latter days of this horrific episode impacting the general public, well, that's your decision, yes? An ECONOMIC decision, right?! <<
I drove four hours on a motorbike to another location (and four hours back) one month ago based on the "credible" reports made by members of this forum who live in Pai to investigate these same accusations against Pol Sgt Unthai at another location. The result. Nothing. No foundation to the accusations at all - as verified by foreigners living in the town where the actions were alleged to have occurred.
I think a few people here need to get a grip on reality. This is third world. If you want a Western style legal system and a Western style police force then live in a Western country.
>>An ECONOMIC decision, right?!<<
Wrong. It's called newsworthyness and Canadian editors are not interested enough in the death of one individual in a far-off land to devote publication space or pay for someone to write the story.
So Andrew or I can write the story and then what? It doesn't get published because there are significantly more important events occurring in Canada (and the rest of the world) to maintain the interest of Canadian editors.
In case you haven't noticed, neither Andrew, I or any of the other journalists in Thailand wake up each morning and put on saffron robes and have our meals and living expenses donated to us. We either have publications who will advance or guarantee costs, or we pay for our expenses out of our own pockets. We are not charities at the beck and call of every every gin addled expatriate in Thailand.
I also haven't seen one response to any of the people with the big mouths on this forum who are prepared to stand next to Andrew or I and take photo's of a drinking, drunk and possibly armed Pol Sgt Unthai. But that's ok. The world is full of armchair critics who are happy to point the finger at others while gripping their can off Chang or sipping a G&T with the other in the comfort and safety of their own livingroom.
The next time this becomes newsworthy is (1) the anniversary of the shooting; (2) when the matter proceeds to trial; (3) if the same police officer commits a similar offence; (4) the matter doesn't proceed to trial in the normal time-frame of the Thai judicial system.
In the meantime, proper, credible reports stating time, date, location and the names of witnesses to any new indiscretions by Pol Sgt Unthai should be collected and coordinated by people so concerned. If these were to be presented to the officer in charge of Pai police, or to the Government, by expatriates or a local NGO demanding action be taken then it would be newsworthy again.
But one outrageous claim by someone who joined this forum on the same day they made the claim and has not made any posts since, nor filled out any personal details in their forum registration, does not in my opinion count as a credible claim.
Put Uthai next to a pretty blonde tourist and he'' probabably pose Wyatt Earp style. They all do. I wouldnt bother complaining to the local police chief though.
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I think you mean he makes thing's up
The above is a comment you made about a locally based journalist who was sued for libel. There was also 'You should hear what Rob Todd has to say about....." etc. It seems therefore u have an agenda.
Nobody has doubted that Kent News Agency sent a photographer to Thailand and took a pic of Bigley's wife, Sombat. But he did not do it as NoW exclusive. They were taken by Andrew Chant. There was however a photocall to which all and sundry were invited.
If you have worked for as a snapper for news agency in the UK you will have had pieces in all the national papers. That's the nature of the job. So have people on the Ilford Recorder. But only the very best snappers here do well, outside the commercial and business arena, and generally they work with a good writer. Check the number of photographers in the FCCT year book and see who they work with.
What you are merely being advised is of the perils of starting up in Thailand and the way to go about it. The best way is to float it in the right places. Starting an agency to 'pap' people on holiday because that's where the money is may or may not be a good idea.
If you are good the newspapers will take the better material. At the moment however, I would say, Thailand is not the country of the future. Although reading the newspapers today Sven Gorn might have regretted buying a house here!
I have no agenda in the slightest...
I was just floating an idea... Although I agree that "anyone" can get a pic in a national paper, especially if you're the only with it!
However, you attempted to make me out as some goon with a digi who'd been to Pattaya a couple of times and fancied setting himself up as the new "Darryn Lyons"
Of course I back myself to get a frame, ask the guys from Getty, Reuters, AP, AFP who i'm up against everyday
All I asked was advice, "Do you think it could be done?" not a million reasons why it couldn't....
You obviously know what you're talking about...but isn't "papping" people on holiday how "Solarpix" started in Spain?
All the best
RAZZ
Phew. I'm getting blinded with all those smileys. We're obviously from a different school 'Darryn boy' isnt one of my journalistic folk heroes. Good luck anyway. Always best to know the 'why nots' first. You'd be surprised to know how many ex Fleet Streeters are actually here.
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You didn't understand my post.
A KNP photographer was sent on order by the NOTW to come to Thailand to work with Drummond, who was also on order. "On order" the newspaper will pick up your expenses. They might also pay you "extra" on what result's you get.
Maybe Drummond got load's of money for getting a result...maybe he didn't. But he certainly didn't approach the NOTW with the story"in the bag" and sell it.
Chant and Drummond tracked down Glitter with a NOTW snapper called Rod Todd...Ask him what he think's about them
As to your second point, I certainly don't profess to know Asia or Thailand all that well. A news or photo agency is just an idea.
Chant & Drummond have been there over 10 years...of course they'd know what they're doing... I didn't say they didn't.
But maybe someone can do it it differently
RAZZ
Razz,
If you want to understand the complexities of either freelancing or setting up an agency in Thailand speak to the people who know.
You wont get many answers here. Also might be more diplomatic not to slag off journalists already here.
I have read your posts and your thoughts on chasing the footballer Ashley Cole's wife etc and the potential money to be made.
Perhaps there is. But there's more to life.
But your suggestion that Andrew D would work with the Kent News Agency for the News of the World sounds very unlikely.
This agency tried to go international but frankly with little cred. I suspect nobody here has ever heard of it.
And if Ron Todd was working with Andrew D chasing Gary Glittler - the US$64,000 dollar question is where are Ron Todds pictures. There are'nt any.
If you check with the NoW you will probably find that they pulled their team out of Vietnam having failed to find Mr.Glitter.
Working in Thailand sounds like fun. It can be, but there are many restrictions.
An idea born on a holiday in Pattaya without talking to journos and based on false research may well work...for a year. But then kiss goodbye to your home in the UK.
I don't want to start a flaming war with you...But why comment about me when you know nothing about be? Bit presumptious isn't it?
For your information, I wasn't slagging them off...I was making a comment. Something which you seem rather good at about me
Having worked for a national Sunday Newspaper in the UK, had front pages including The Guardian, The Times, Telegraph...oops, sorry every national newspaper in the UK..I think I have half a clue
Just so you know I can't spell, it's Robb Todd...
But you obviously seem to know more about it than me.And my mate Phil Toscano who was working for KNP, didn't go to Thailand and photograph Bigley's wife, it must have been a mirage, he made it all up ...
RAZZ
I think you mean he makes thing's up
The above is a comment you made about a locally based journalist who was sued for libel. There was also 'You should hear what Rob Todd has to say about....." etc. It seems therefore u have an agenda.
Nobody has doubted that Kent News Agency sent a photographer to Thailand and took a pic of Bigley's wife, Sombat. But he did not do it as NoW exclusive. They were taken by Andrew Chant. There was however a photocall to which all and sundry were invited.
If you have worked for as a snapper for news agency in the UK you will have had pieces in all the national papers. That's the nature of the job. So have people on the Ilford Recorder. But only the very best snappers here do well, outside the commercial and business arena, and generally they work with a good writer. Check the number of photographers in the FCCT year book and see who they work with.
What you are merely being advised is of the perils of starting up in Thailand and the way to go about it. The best way is to float it in the right places. Starting an agency to 'pap' people on holiday because that's where the money is may or may not be a good idea.
If you are good the newspapers will take the better material. At the moment however, I would say, Thailand is not the country of the future. Although reading the newspapers today Sven Gorn might have regretted buying a house here!
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For the benefit of other freelancers who might find themselves in similar situations the latest update on this is that following the threat of laying a complaint with the US District Attorney and highlighting the penalties KITV 4 could face the following email was received overnight.
The matter of a Social Security number and their inability to pay by TT/Direct deposit have been addressed in a return email. It's very simple, I'm not a US citizen so don't have a Social Security number. I am an independent supplier of goods and services. They've been told payment in seven days by Paypal (which allows use of the corporate credit card) or TT or the complaint gets laid with the DA.
After being insulted and treated in a rude and obnoxious manner by Shayne Enright, I'm not in a very diplomatic mood with KITV 4.
Oh the threat has also seen the real News Director brought into the picture as you can see. Ms Enright I think has been removed from the picture.
>>Dear Mr. Le Fevre,
Thank you for your assistance on the story. I realize that your images were above and beyond other stringer or freelance type video or information we normally receive. But it is my understanding that you did not communicate the price of your material during those initial conversations and that there was no "contract" for a specific payment.
However, KITV is more than willing to pay a fair price for the images we received from you. May I suggest that we agree on the $500 you requested later.
To process your check, could you please email me your Social Security or EIN number to asap. I will also need an address where I can send the check. Unfortunately our company does not do direct deposits for these types of transactions.
Thank you,
Tod Pritchard
News Director
KITV<<
Not a bad reference from Mr Pritchard regarding the work though
Congratulations. I stand corrected!
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Yes I have registered my family, Thai wife and our 2 children. In my case with the British embassy, I have received various letters from them when unusual circumstances have arisen. I make a point of confirming my address and details every year. Having witnessed the occasional hasty re-patriation of Brits and their families from various countries in the course of a previous occupation, I know for a fact that simply registering with the embassy can make the difference between safety for your family or waiting in a panic stricken line at some overcrowded airport/docks. Yes I know it's all a bit "doomsday scenario" but then so is life insurance!
Yes. I have too. They ring me up every year to verify details. If push came to shove though I'm not sure they can or will be of much use
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You didn't understand my post.
A KNP photographer was sent on order by the NOTW to come to Thailand to work with Drummond, who was also on order. "On order" the newspaper will pick up your expenses. They might also pay you "extra" on what result's you get.
Maybe Drummond got load's of money for getting a result...maybe he didn't. But he certainly didn't approach the NOTW with the story"in the bag" and sell it.
Chant and Drummond tracked down Glitter with a NOTW snapper called Rod Todd...Ask him what he think's about them
As to your second point, I certainly don't profess to know Asia or Thailand all that well. A news or photo agency is just an idea.
Chant & Drummond have been there over 10 years...of course they'd know what they're doing... I didn't say they didn't.
But maybe someone can do it it differently
RAZZ
Razz,
If you want to understand the complexities of either freelancing or setting up an agency in Thailand speak to the people who know.
You wont get many answers here. Also might be more diplomatic not to slag off journalists already here.
I have read your posts and your thoughts on chasing the footballer Ashley Cole's wife etc and the potential money to be made.
Perhaps there is. But there's more to life.
But your suggestion that Andrew D would work with the Kent News Agency for the News of the World sounds very unlikely.
This agency tried to go international but frankly with little cred. I suspect nobody here has ever heard of it.
And if Ron Todd was working with Andrew D chasing Gary Glittler - the US$64,000 dollar question is where are Ron Todds pictures. There are'nt any.
If you check with the NoW you will probably find that they pulled their team out of Vietnam having failed to find Mr.Glitter.
Working in Thailand sounds like fun. It can be, but there are many restrictions.
An idea born on a holiday in Pattaya without talking to journos and based on false research may well work...for a year. But then kiss goodbye to your home in the UK.
But we can live with that.
Up Date On 2005 Heroin Bust Phuket
in Phuket
Posted
Ok thats fine. Mum still alive? Where? She may be the way in to this.