monkeycountry

Most of foreign patients in the province were suffering from motorcycle-related road accidents.

So why isn't the motorcycle insurance covering it then???? These absolute numpties can't work out that this isn't a zero sum game.

They have to shoulder 5mn baht's worth of unpaid bills, but what was their net revenue take from those who did pay? At 50k for an xray, plaster cast and a bye bye with a load of painkillers and antibiotics, that is 100 people who didn't pay. If you assume that 90% did pay, that means they would have taken in, 50k x 900 = 45,000,000

On the basis that most Thai's would get that service either from social funds, or the 30 baht, what would they prefer? Now they will need a pot of 100,000 tourists paying 500k each to cover the costs of 1000, assuming that only 1% go to hospital? Hmmmm. Quite a few assumptions there, but add in the fact that now lots more tourists are going to try to claim stuff that they would have paid for before, this is why, countries DON'T often go down this route.

Lost tourist revenue is not an issue in this- those farangs who refuse to buy travel or health insurance and who leave hospitals without paying tend to come from low income demographics- the type who moan about 5 baht beer price differences, complain about over charging at noodle stalls etc- these type spend hardly anything (the bulk of their holiday spending going on the air fare over).

Combined these people still spend a lot more than 200 million baht/year though. And don't forget that processing time, paperwork and "uninsurable" issues for elderly rich people with pre existing conditions may prevent a few high income earners from coming too. So yes, it has a lot to do with lost tourism revenue!

Why are people blaming Thais for this or is just turning into another Thai bashing thread, a common theme on Thai Visa

Facts : People come here with no insurance, have a accident/get sick, go to a government hospital because the private ones will not admit them with no insurance or money to pay the bill, they then leave without paying the bill leaving the Thai population to pay it via their taxes

Is it just me or does anyone else think that is not acceptable? What kind of idiots visit a place like Thailand with no insurance?

How on earth can anyone apart from the usual Thai bashers on TV not think that the government must come up with a way to stop this happening?

It is not a matter of right and wrong. The government is not upset about right/wrong, but simply about losing money. Some of us Thai bashers are arguing that by far the cheapest (and easiest) solution for Thailand is to simply shoulder the relatively tiny amount of 200 million baht/year. If the insurance thing prevents even 1 in 1000 tourists from coming, then Thailand will lose a lot more than 200 million baht/year.

Most of foreign patients in the province were suffering from motorcycle-related road accidents.

So why isn't the motorcycle insurance covering it then???? These absolute numpties can't work out that this isn't a zero sum game.

They have to shoulder 5mn baht's worth of unpaid bills, but what was their net revenue take from those who did pay? At 50k for an xray, plaster cast and a bye bye with a load of painkillers and antibiotics, that is 100 people who didn't pay. If you assume that 90% did pay, that means they would have taken in, 50k x 900 = 45,000,000

On the basis that most Thai's would get that service either from social funds, or the 30 baht, what would they prefer? Now they will need a pot of 100,000 tourists paying 500k each to cover the costs of 1000, assuming that only 1% go to hospital? Hmmmm. Quite a few assumptions there, but add in the fact that now lots more tourists are going to try to claim stuff that they would have paid for before, this is why, countries DON'T often go down this route.

I believe you are well aware that Thailand almost always takes a route no one else has ever taken before

Tourist revenue in 2012 was 984,000,000,000 bht.

Cost of medical care was 200,000,000 bht or an insignificant 0.02% of revenue.

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Unfortunately the staff at the tourism and sports ministry were all hired based on their family name. None of them have a diploma in math, and jokes aside, I honestly do not think any of them can make your simple calculation without getting at least one 0 (zero) wrong :-(

"It is quite possible that major cruise liners add Thailand to their holiday itineraries thanks to the kingdoms reputable attractions, she said."

Is she referring to the phuket taxi mafia who illegally and forcefully blocks the cruise ships while the authorities do nothing? Well I suppose you can call that a "reputable attraction" :-) It is definately an attraction unique to Thailand :-)

When the rest of the world thinks of Thailand's reputation, the tuk tuks are NOT the first thing that springs to mind.

Further, not being able to disembark in Phuket due to the taxi mafia, probably will be the first thing that springs to mind when the cruise guests get back home and tell all their friends about their trip.

"It is quite possible that major cruise liners add Thailand to their holiday itineraries thanks to the kingdoms reputable attractions, she said."

Is she referring to the phuket taxi mafia who illegally and forcefully blocks the cruise ships while the authorities do nothing? Well I suppose you can call that a "reputable attraction" :-) It is definately an attraction unique to Thailand :-)

"It is quite possible that major cruise liners add Thailand to their holiday itineraries thanks to the kingdoms reputable attractions, she said."

Is she referring to the phuket taxi mafia who illegally and forcefully blocks the cruise ships while the authorities do nothing? Well I suppose you can call that a "reputable attraction" :-D

"We have been talking to them [the operators of social media] a lot, but they do not want to cooperate. When they want anything, they expect to get it, but when we ask them for something, they rarely help us. They have taken a lot from Thailand but refused to cooperate with Thailand. I won't let them go if they make any mistakes," he warned.

Exactly what is it they have gotten or taken from Thailand?

Why should social media help Thai law enforcement ban or prosecute critics and opponents of the PTP, which is of course the real goal here?

It's actually to stop discussion over another major issue. The convenient ability to silence critics of the government is an added bonus.

Assuming we are talking about the same major issue, I think it is the other way around. I am just guessing though :-)

If he really thinks social media takes alot from Thailand and gives nothing back, then just block it. Start by blocking facebook, twitter and instagram.

After about an hour we will see who needs who more? Facebook's management probably won't care much, but I am guessing that there will be riots on the streets of Bangkok, not against facebook, but against whoever blocked it :-)

"We have been talking to them [the operators of social media] a lot, but they do not want to cooperate. When they want anything, they expect to get it, but when we ask them for something, they rarely help us. They have taken a lot from Thailand but refused to cooperate with Thailand. I won't let them go if they make any mistakes," he warned.

Exactly what is it they have gotten or taken from Thailand?

Why should social media help Thai law enforcement ban or prosecute critics and opponents of the PTP, which is of course the real goal here?

Nobody seems to have asked the question as to what the police are doing about the incident. In civilised societies physical violence is not permitted even if you have been provoked by somebody giving you the finger. You have to accept the finger and return the compliment with two fingers. What is this society all about?

Farangs bring money to Thailand so the Thais hate us for having the money. It is true that the tourist industry has brought growth and wealth to the Thais but those who have not benefitted feel resentment.

The saddest thing about all this is that we cannot rely on the Thai police to do their job properly and so we farangs tend to feel insecure and unsafe here. Perhaps we should all leave and leave Thailand to the Thais.

What are the police doing?

They are reading these posts, noting the names of the posters and will be paying the negative ones a visit for "damaging the reputation of Phuket".

Beware!!!!

I have no doubt they would want to, but I am quite sure they do not have any officers who can actually read these posts

The whole concept of male Thai "bouncers" in places such as nana, cowboy, walking street or similar places with lots of bar girls makes no sense. Customers will behave stupid, and in most cases the many girls and/or other customers will manage to contain the problem with little or no fighting. If it escalates, the police can be called to stop it.
Once male Thai "bouncers" are involved the situation is likely to turn a lot worse as most of them are more or less crazy, have a lot of pent up anger and are likely to seriously hurt or even kill the drunk tourists. No, not all Thai men are crazy, but the sane ones generally do not work as bouncers!

I bet there would be less serious injuries and deaths in these areas if there were no "bouncers" at all!

This is a really low act. Just another example of the big guys dumping on the little guys.

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yes, it is really unreasonable to ask tenants whose lease has expired, or whose ongoing lease has been legally cancelled, to actually leave.

The only way in Thailand to get people off your land is to do so by surprise and /or force as the SRT of course knows. Even a vendor without a lease or with an expired lease will, if forewarned, either physically block the land or request that the owner finds new land for them or let them stay until they find new land etc. Whatever their demands are, it will always be something that leaves the vendors with no responsibility whatsoever.

Further, mediating officials and courts are useless in these cases. None of them want to upset either side, so they will avoid making any firm decisions either way, and will instead suggest the matter is discussed forever or that a committee is set up to delay the issue indefinately.

Therefore, the best solution in most cases is to not let vendors or other temporary/poor tenants lease your land to begin with, even if you are not currently using it.

"We believe the compensation should be calculated based on our real average daily income,"

No problem. Show us your tax returns supporting what you claim your 'real average daily income' is...

Yes I know I'm being twattish. It's just my distaste of people who take advantage of these situations (and I'm not suggesting that's necessarily the case) as much as I despise the people who caused them in the first place...

You think 1000 baht is good compensation? Do you think that gets remotely close to estimating current and future damage? Do you think that the 1000 baht shows that PTT is acting in good faith?

I have no idea if 1,000 baht is good compensation or not but that's far removed from my point. Whether they were making 100 baht or 10,000 baht a day that's what they should receive. No more, no less, is the point.

And nothing for damages?

Damages to whom? Did any fishermen get hurt?

Compensation is what you lost, damages go beyond that for future inability to regain business.

I assume that would only be a problem if a large portion of the fish in the area has died. Is that the case? I have not read about lots of dead fish anywhere?

As far as I know, the main reason of the decline in fish stock is overfishing and the fact that the fishermen catch the young fish as well and damage reefs with the nets and other garbage.

Perhaps the fishermen can use the compensation they get from PTT to pay for the damage they have done to the diving industry, tourism industry and Thailand in general?

'The authorities seemed to be prepared to pay just Bt1,000 in daily compensation for a period of 30 days'

So that's 30,000 baht per person. Seems pretty good to me, paid holiday, take the money and move on.

"We believe the compensation should be calculated based on our real average daily income,"

So show us your tax returns....what !? You don't have any ? You don't pay tax ? Give us 20 years of back tax plus interest, then we will talk about giving you more compensation...

As for future, I agree PTT should pay more, but that money should be used to take care of the environment.

The sale of agricultural produce is VAT exempt in Thailand. Thus, rarely if ever declared on a taxeable report. Just another convenient way for middle men to wash cash and the such. However, presumably, they have some records scrawled on the back of a fag pack, concerning their daily take of which types of fish, and another piece of paper showing how much cash the buyer gave them.

At the end of the day, 1000 baht is I reckon extremely low.

What has VAT got to do with anything. He is talking about tax returns, as in income tax returns. And no, the fishermen are not exempt from paying income tax, although I am sure none of them do, which means they cheat us all, and have done so for decades. Even if they make less than the minimum required to pay income tax they a still required to file a tax return, and had they done so, it would now be very easy to find out how much they actually make and thereby how much compensation they should get. Som Nam Na.

A thousand baht a day does not even cover the fuel charges for the boat. Which ironically they probably buy from PTT anyway. A company that made 650,000 Million last year should be made to pay for their mistakes. The fisherman's reputation and livelyhood has been stained even if they have cleaned up the sea. The value of their catch goes down so they have to catch more and more. Also affecting the sustainability of the fishing industry in Rayong. PTT should have to pay more damages and for a longer period than 30 days. It's a clear case of trying to shirk responsibility and the power of the big company versus the ordinary man. Not to mention that the politicians having a vested interest in PTT rather than protecting the people they represent.

dunno where you get your numbers from, but in 2012 (last year) PTTGC made 34 billion and PTT 104 billion net profit.

"We believe the compensation should be calculated based on our real average daily income,"

No problem. Show us your tax returns supporting what you claim your 'real average daily income' is...

Yes I know I'm being twattish. It's just my distaste of people who take advantage of these situations (and I'm not suggesting that's necessarily the case) as much as I despise the people who caused them in the first place...

You think 1000 baht is good compensation? Do you think that gets remotely close to estimating current and future damage? Do you think that the 1000 baht shows that PTT is acting in good faith?

I have no idea if 1,000 baht is good compensation or not but that's far removed from my point. Whether they were making 100 baht or 10,000 baht a day that's what they should receive. No more, no less, is the point.

1,000 baht a day does not compensate a boat owner, and maybe his crew of 10, all of whom were not able to fish during this period. How about the people that sell fuel, bait, supplies? Where do they get compensated by someone's screw up at PTT?

I am guessing PTT is selling the fuel :-)

What an absolute insult and a slap in the face with the back of a shovel. PTT is worth billions, did very little to clean up the mess (Volunteers worked hard) and offering a pissy 1K baht per day compensation around 6K in total. Drop a couple of shackles at the feet of the peasants and everything evaporates and never happened.

Why isn't Yingluck's Natural Resources Minister stepping to insure that adequate compensation is paid to the hard-working masses that elected them?

Too many vested interests in play. How many in government, politicians in general, VIPs etc are shareholders ? Politicians of course will not be but Dolly the family carabao will hold a large stake.

Yingluck proved yesterday she only cares about big business, huge profits and a few high value bills that can mean more food in the trough.

When it comes to the little hard working people .... bugger off is the attitude

Are you referring to the little hard working people who according to themselves make a lot more than 1,000 baht per day, yet never pay any tax, and throw all their garbage overboard polluting reefs and beaches 10 times more than any oil spill ever has?

"We believe the compensation should be calculated based on our real average daily income,"

No problem. Show us your tax returns supporting what you claim your 'real average daily income' is...

Yes I know I'm being twattish. It's just my distaste of people who take advantage of these situations (and I'm not suggesting that's necessarily the case) as much as I despise the people who caused them in the first place...

You think 1000 baht is good compensation? Do you think that gets remotely close to estimating current and future damage? Do you think that the 1000 baht shows that PTT is acting in good faith?

I have no idea if 1,000 baht is good compensation or not but that's far removed from my point. Whether they were making 100 baht or 10,000 baht a day that's what they should receive. No more, no less, is the point.

And nothing for damages?

Damages to whom? Did any fishermen get hurt?

Rayong fishermen refuse to accept Bt1,000 per day in compensation

JUMPOL NIKOMRAK,

PIYANUT TUMNUKASETCHAI

THE NATION

RAYONG: -- FISHERMEN IN Rayong are getting ready to fight against the Bt1,000 daily compensation proposed to make up for the loss of income caused by the recent oil leak.

Their livelihoods were affected when some 50,000 litres of crude oil leaked from a PTT Global Chemical (PTTGC) offshore pipeline on July 27. There are about 800 small trawlers in Rayong.

"We believe the compensation should be calculated based on our real average daily income," Rayong Small Fishing Trawler Association president |Jaturas Iamworanirun said at a meeting yesterday, which was attended by about 1,000 fishermen.

At the meeting, the participants were given a form, reportedly prepared by Chulalongkorn University, in which they were asked to specify the amount of squid, shrimp, fish and clams they could catch every day on average. "These forms will provide the information," Jaturas said.

Earlier, the Rayong provincial government asked those affected to come forward and claim compensation. However, Jaturas said, the authorities seemed to be prepared to pay just Bt1,000 in daily compensation for a period of 30 days.

"We can't accept that," Jaturas said.

He said that once the real average income was calculated, his association would submit the information to Rayong Governor Wichit Chatphaisit, PTTGC and the National Human Rights Commission to push for fair compensation.

Separately, Department of Special Investigation (DSI) chief Tarit Pengdith said yesterday that it was clear the leakage could not be blamed on natural causes. "We are going to determine the exact cause. It's possible that somebody's recklessness led to the leak," he said.

He said DSI investigators would also need to rely on information gathered by the PTT fact-finding committee. PTTGC is a unit of PTT.

Although the DSI has not yet taken this up as a special case, it has asked 14 relevant agencies to provide information. These agencies include PTTGC, the Pollution Control Department and the Marine Department.

-- The Nation 2013-08-09

First if all, most uneducated Thais, such as fishermen, do not understand the concept of "average". Secondly, they will most likely remember the catch on their best day ever, double it, and put that on the paper.

But yes, I agree with finding out how much they usually make. They claim to make more than 1k/day, so over 30k/month. with such a high income (no expenses?), they must be paying taxes, so their income can be seen on their tax return :-)

In any case, it's not like there is oil everywhere, far from it, so the vast majority of fishermen in rayong have probably not lost any income at all.

I would truly like to think this government will go down in flames the next election over the mind boggling stupidity of the rice scam, but I am fairly certain at the next election there will be a new raft of idiotic promises, 500 baht notes will be handed out to the red buffaloes, and we will get another incarnation of a Thaksin run government. For god's sake, will this madness ever end ???????????????????

According to some government research institute (can't remember the name) the rice scheme alone is increasing public debt by 4%/year, so the poor will not know the difference at the time of the next election. Unfortunately it will take 10-20 years before the debt is at a critical level and the poor will start feeling the pain.

Why doesn't the court simply use the same method as it did against the soldiers at the wat? Find out if there were any men in black present? If not, then obviously it must have been this policeman firing the rpg!

Traffic and lack of parking is bad enough in Phuket without the smokey baht busses adding to the problem. Have you ever tried to drive around Pattaya? Its a nightmare

Actually, Phuket Tuk tuks use petrol, while baht buses use relatively clean diesel. The cheaper, subsidized diesels here are made mostly from corn and natural gas.

Great so we burn corn to transport people around Pattaya cheaply while the neighbouring SE asian countries have hungry people. And please dont profess to be an expert in oil reserves and extraction as its not your field. There is still plenty left for a few hundred years until we perfect other means of using renewable energy.

Deisel engines emit more CO2 than regular fuel. Baht busses are neither efficient or clean.

Maybe they are not efficient and clean, but baht buses running along the coast road on Phuket would certainly save many lives.

Just use a taxi if its about safety. If its about baht then rent a scooter. Not every tourist that comes to Phuket is an alcoholic. So not everyone on scooters is drink driving. I would think that one full baht bus coming down the kathu mountain and losing control would be a catostrophic loss of life

I see our little debate has turned into a debate about pollution levels and my personal driving habits, so I will leave you guys to it. Have fun :-)