KondoKitty

I feel sorry for the police who are genuinely trying to stop people on the road who are breaking the rules, but are impeded from doing so.

Imagine how many accidents would be prevented if there were more police resources, and if their vision was not obscured (by tinted glass, rain, darkness).

Thanks Tammi

1. PETS: They are referring to the "Rules and Regulations" (article 9 no 26.9); Here is an extract from a Committe Meeting Summary:

(Having pets) is against the Rules and Regulations in article 9 no. 26.9 under the heading "Private Property," reminding co-owners not to allow "stray animals in the unit and public property." Although majority of the (committee) meeting attendees agreed on this prohibition, some co-owners {i.e. me} still allowed strays animals {nb: I assume "stray animals" is just their poor translation..I don't bring in strays...I have two 7 year old cats that stay inside at all times}, thus, the building management decided {actually, it was the co-owners who voted at the 2007 AGM} that all pet owners must register their animals and supply an identification photo to the building management. Moreover, co-owners must undertake no breeding of any animals in the premises.

Are these Regulations the same for all condos in Thailand? Would you have the English version of these Regulations? I believe the section about Pets is a "grey area" anyway. Is that true? But these people want to make it black and white so I can be expelled.

Can they dismiss me on these grounds even when there was an AGM where co-owners said existing pets were OK? Any experience with this kind of thing in other condos?

2. CHAIRPERSON. What is the role of the Chairperson and how should they be elected? At my condo, this wasn't really voted on. By default, the committee member who had received the most votes was awarded this title (they got it for the 2nd year in a row). I asked the Juristic Person Manager (who actually works for the Developer) to clarify the role and reason why we need a Chairperson. He didn't really know and didn't get back to me about it later - said it was just needed for legal reasons, but confirmed that they had no extra voting power/rights.

Thanks...

One more thing:

3. MANAGEMENT RESPONSIBILITY TO REPLY TO COMPLAINTS IN WRITING

You mentioned there was a ruling that Management must respond formally. Can you share any details? I'd like to be able to show them that since it is their regular behaviour to ignore all sorts of complaints and suggestions vs. proactively solve and communicate anything.

Thank you, Tammi I will check out the book. Looking forward to the July Condo Law amendments - especially on Proxies!!

Do you know the current Condo Law re. dismissing committee members?

I'm the only foreigner on the committee at my condo (it is my 2nd term) and a select group of current & ex-committee (all Thai) find me too outspoken. So they're trying to fire me on the grounds that I'm violating condo regulations by having 2 pet cats. There'll be an Extraordinary General Meeting next Sunday where they will ask co-owners to vote on this.

At the Annual General Meeting 8 months ago (Aug07), the Pet topic was raised for co-owners to vote formally. In most condos the topic never comes up, but at my condo I'm a target so this is grounds for attack. Majority of co-owners agreed that any "non-nuisance" pets already living at the condo would be accepted, but there should be no additional pets. So I registered my 2 cats with the Property Management by the given deadline, and 2 other co-owners registered their pets too. Obviously, the AGM vote didn't go the way certain people had hoped!!

All was quiet until Nov07 when certain committee members manipulated the Property Management to informally carry out the vote again. A lesser number of co-owners responded to the vote (vs. the number that had voted/attended the AGM), but responses were solicited from the 3 floors with pets. Not surprisingly , the outcome this time was what these people wanted - the majority of co-owners on the 3 floors with pets voted "NO PETS ALLOWED".

I have sent complaints to Committee/Property Management/Juristic Person Manager - all of which have been ignored. The Juristic Person Manager instructed the Property Management (back in Dec07) to check with all the Aug07 AGM attendees to confirm they had voted to allow existing Pets, but the Office staff have not done their job. Instead, they are busy supporting the committee members - First sending me letters demanding that I remove my pets from the building, and now, hosting an EGM where co-owners will be asked to vote to dismiss me as I am "violating condo regulations". (There'll be a lot of proxies too, I'm sure!!)

Any advice? I love being on the committee!!

Thanks! KondoKitty

PS - I should also mention that it's in the interests of the well established international Property Management company to get me removed from the committee as I am one of the few people that dares to openly criticize them for their unsatisfactory performance. They have also been exposed recently for illegally raising the CAM fee, but certain committee members are still protecting them.

There's nothing in current Act about dismissing committee members though a resolution could be voted on at an AGM or EGM. In new Act Section 37/6 " A resolution of the committee must be approved by a majority of committee members present for which one member shall have one vote. In case of a tie in the voting the chairperson shall have an additional vote." So under new Act committee can pass resolutions (which I think is bad) and you could get voted off!

Also under new Act Section 37/3 "In addition to being retired on rotation, committee member may be retired for the following reasons: death, resignation, is no longer a person under Section 37/1 or hasa disqulaification under Section 37/2, is dismissed at a general meeting".

Is it actually in the Regulations that no pets are allowed or is it only in the so called "house rules"?

The current law Section 43 states "To form a quorum, a General Meeting must be attended by at least one third of the total eligible to vote and Section 44 states" Resolutions of a General Meeting shall be determined by the majority of votes of the co-owners attending the meeting unless this Act determines otherwise." The "otherwise" is the provision in the current Act that certain resolutions need at least 50% and at least 75%.

Many condos believe that the last paragraph in Section 48 (Resolutions requiring more than 50%) "If co-owner votes are not present at a GM in numbers to pass a resolution in accordance with paragraph 1 above, a second GM shall be called within 15 days from the date of the original meeting. Such resolution at the second meeting shall be determined by the majority of votes attending the meeting" means that if there is no quorum a second meeting can be called and a quorum is not needed at 2nd meeting. That belief is not correct. The last paragraph in Section 48 applies only to Section 48 and anyway Section 43 is explicit that a GM must have a quorum. Unfortunately in the new Act quorums are not required at 2nd called meeting - two persons (one to move and one to second) can turn up and hold a meeting. Section 43 of the new Act: " For this new meeting the constitution of a quorum shall be irrelevant." And this applies to resolutions requiring not less than half the votes at the 1st called meeting. In new Act there are no items requiring at least 75% of the votes and those too can be voted on and passed by a couple of people. So fees, disposal of common property, change of use of common property, can be voted on by a couple of people. Co-owners will have to be more interested and involved or ----------!

Good luck. I think if I were you I would resign from the Committee, really get to know the condo Act and the Regulations, and keep complaining/suggesting. There was a court case here where the judge ruled that management had to reply in writing to co-owners written complaints.

Thanks Tammi

1. PETS: They are referring to the "Rules and Regulations" (article 9 no 26.9); Here is an extract from a Committe Meeting Summary:

(Having pets) is against the Rules and Regulations in article 9 no. 26.9 under the heading "Private Property," reminding co-owners not to allow "stray animals in the unit and public property." Although majority of the (committee) meeting attendees agreed on this prohibition, some co-owners {i.e. me} still allowed strays animals {nb: I assume "stray animals" is just their poor translation..I don't bring in strays...I have two 7 year old cats that stay inside at all times}, thus, the building management decided {actually, it was the co-owners who voted at the 2007 AGM} that all pet owners must register their animals and supply an identification photo to the building management. Moreover, co-owners must undertake no breeding of any animals in the premises.

Are these Regulations the same for all condos in Thailand? Would you have the English version of these Regulations? I believe the section about Pets is a "grey area" anyway. Is that true? But these people want to make it black and white so I can be expelled.

Can they dismiss me on these grounds even when there was an AGM where co-owners said existing pets were OK? Any experience with this kind of thing in other condos?

2. CHAIRPERSON. What is the role of the Chairperson and how should they be elected? At my condo, this wasn't really voted on. By default, the committee member who had received the most votes was awarded this title (they got it for the 2nd year in a row). I asked the Juristic Person Manager (who actually works for the Developer) to clarify the role and reason why we need a Chairperson. He didn't really know and didn't get back to me about it later - said it was just needed for legal reasons, but confirmed that they had no extra voting power/rights.

Thanks...

Thank you for this.

There have been cases of parking being allocated by the developers or by management committee to co-owners resulting in some co-owners having shaded parking and the rest having to park in the sun. This, of course, doesn't make for a happy condominium especially when many of the shaded parking is allocated to co-owners who are hardly ever at the condo.

Do you and your friend think that the statement "or go through all the process/legal action to take back the assets and facilities for the co-owners." would apply in such a case? If it does apply the whole disagreement could be given to the Juristic Person Manager to do his duty and sort it out.

Hi Tammi

I'm not a lawyer, but I do think this clause would be relevant to any discussion about the fair sharing of common areas.

Were the car spaces re-allocated recently? I suggest that several of you raise the issue together with the Juristic Person Manager. They should explain the principle that was used when allocating the spaces. If they cannot articulate it, they'll have to recognize this is unfair. Especially if you are all paying CAM fee for the car space itself! If there aren't enough spaces to give everyone a decent "fixed" space, maybe the condo should change all spaces to be "non-fixed". I've never lived anywhere with all "non-fixed" (I'm sure it has its own problems), but at least it's equal for all, providing there are sufficient spaces.

At my condo there are 220 apartments and 142 car spaces. Only the 2 & 3 bedroom apartments get "fixed" spaces, so there are about 45 of these (and co-owners pay monthly CAM fees on them - the size of the space is in the purchase contract). The positions of the "fixed" spaces were allocated in an ordered way by the developer when the building was brand new (the apartment numbers are spray-painted on). Unlike your property, all "fixed" and "non-fixed" spaces are undercover. The building is only 2 years old, so none of the allocations have been modified by the Management/Committee.

At another condo I know, there are 79 apartments and 83 car spaces. All are "non-fixed" and undercover (no special treatment for larger apartments).

Hope this helps

Thank you, Tammi I will check out the book. Looking forward to the July Condo Law amendments - especially on Proxies!!

Do you know the current Condo Law re. dismissing committee members?

I'm the only foreigner on the committee at my condo (it is my 2nd term) and a select group of current & ex-committee (all Thai) find me too outspoken. So they're trying to fire me on the grounds that I'm violating condo regulations by having 2 pet cats. There'll be an Extraordinary General Meeting next Sunday where they will ask co-owners to vote on this.

At the Annual General Meeting 8 months ago (Aug07), the Pet topic was raised for co-owners to vote formally. In most condos the topic never comes up, but at my condo I'm a target so this is grounds for attack. Majority of co-owners agreed that any "non-nuisance" pets already living at the condo would be accepted, but there should be no additional pets. So I registered my 2 cats with the Property Management by the given deadline, and 2 other co-owners registered their pets too. Obviously, the AGM vote didn't go the way certain people had hoped!!

All was quiet until Nov07 when certain committee members manipulated the Property Management to informally carry out the vote again. A lesser number of co-owners responded to the vote (vs. the number that had voted/attended the AGM), but responses were solicited from the 3 floors with pets. Not surprisingly , the outcome this time was what these people wanted - the majority of co-owners on the 3 floors with pets voted "NO PETS ALLOWED".

I have sent complaints to Committee/Property Management/Juristic Person Manager - all of which have been ignored. The Juristic Person Manager instructed the Property Management (back in Dec07) to check with all the Aug07 AGM attendees to confirm they had voted to allow existing Pets, but the Office staff have not done their job. Instead, they are busy supporting the committee members - First sending me letters demanding that I remove my pets from the building, and now, hosting an EGM where co-owners will be asked to vote to dismiss me as I am "violating condo regulations". (There'll be a lot of proxies too, I'm sure!!)

Any advice? I love being on the committee!!

Thanks! KondoKitty

PS - I should also mention that it's in the interests of the well established international Property Management company to get me removed from the committee as I am one of the few people that dares to openly criticize them for their unsatisfactory performance. They have also been exposed recently for illegally raising the CAM fee, but certain committee members are still protecting them.

I find that the hardest thing for the new condo developers to get right (or the tradesmen we hire ourselves) is the paint work - interior. Can always see lines, streaks, bumps, etc. Especially when the sun streams in. What is the secret to good paint work in this country? Does anyone have a brilliant painter to recommend? Or is the answer wallpaper? And what can we do about the ceiling? I saw Molly Malones pub in soi convent has wallpaper on the ceiling....!!

We LOVE the little Thai man that did our bathroom tiling and entire apartment floor. He did it with his wife as his helper - so careful the 2 of them - what a team!! They worked so hard.

He was brought to us by our contractor but we were so impressed with him and will hire him independently of that contractor for any future work needed at other investments. He is so reliable and does a very fussy job on his own without needing supervision too much.

He doesn't speak English though but he's fab! His mobile is: 0840160839 and we forgot his name.

If you need help, please contact me via this site. I would like to attach photo but cannot figure how to do it.

Regards,

KondoKitty

Hi Richard

So what happened? Did you go ahead after paying your 100,000 B deposit? Raimonland isn't the kind of developer that will screw you over with a bad contract. I hope you called them directly to go through all your worries. I have bought properties off the plan like this without problems in Bangkok and you don't need lawyers when you buy from reputable developers such as this. Buying land is much more complicated and you need lawyers then to do all the rigmarole like set up a company to buy in company name.

Let us know how you got on!

KondoKitty

Hi,

Has anybody ever used any Thai law firms for conveyancing? Any Recommendations?

I really don't think it is safe or wise to proceed any further without getting this contract looked at by somebody qualified to do so and also make any amendments that he or she feels should be included to protect me,

ie: Project running over time, furniture and appliances not being as good as is promised in the brochures and web site.

I'm running out of time though because If I don't get the above contract signed and returned within the next few days, I'll lose the apartment and my 100,000 Baht reservation fee.

Topical advice is badly needed and will be very much appreciated.

Thanks

Richard

get hold of a book that lists the Act in Thai and English. I saw one in the bookstore recently that was more of a rant by a pissed-off owner living in Pattaya; funny and covering law at the same time which is quite a rarity.

Can anyone please tell me the name and author of this book? "Palm" mentioned it. Sounds classic & useful.

Thanks!

KondoKitty

section_39_Condo_Act_Retrieve_Property.doc

Can someone please translate this into English? It is a clipping from the very excellent book by Tony Crossley "Your Thai Condo Rights". I need to double check the translation as have been told very difficult to translate Thai to English. Many thanks.

The law #39. The Juristic Office has the right to represent co-owners in the central area and facilities to others outside the condo, or go through all the process/legal action to take back the assets and facilities for the co-owners.

I had this translated by a friend, so I hope it helps.

She thinks it could refer to cases like if a neigbouring property was encroaching on the condo space (e.g. they build their driveway too wide into the land that belongs to the condo/co-owners), then the Juristic Office can stick-up for all co-owners and fight to have the asset returned to the condo for co-owner use.

At the AGM is it possible to video tape the procedings as sometimes things are lost in translation?

Also, if a developer still has about 10% of the votes (registered as a company) can this be used as a co owner vote at the AGM? or does he need proxies from all the directors in the company to exercise these votes?

If a proxy is submitted at the AGM for election onto the Executive Committee is this legal - meaning that if the candidate cant turn up to the meeting can he or she submit a proxy?

Any help appreciated

Very good idea to video tape the proceedings.

The developer company has the right to the votes of each unit the developer's company has. I would argue that the company is a single entity and must vote as such.

Section 47 of the present Act states: "Co-owners may assign power of attorney in writing to other persons to vote instead of them. One person cannot be assigned power of Attorney to vote by more than three in one meeting.

The manager or spouse cannot preside over the meeting or be assigned power of attorney to vote instead of co-owners."

"Manager" means the Juristic Person Manager.

Section 35 of the present Act states "The Condominium Juristic Person shall have a manager who may be a natural person or a juristic person. If the manager is a juristic person, that juristic person is to install a natural person to act as manager in place of the juristic person."

A co-owner absent from the AGM can be voted onto the Management Committee. I know it sticks in one's craw but what to do! When the new Act comes into force the co-owners will be able to dismiss committee members at an AGM or EGM.

Can someone please tell me what the current Condo Act states re. dismissing committee members?

Can it be done at an AGM or EGM? And what is the required attendance, and required % agreement to dismiss the individual?

And on what grounds would someone in the committee usually need to be dismissed in the first place?

And what if others "gang up" to dismiss a farang for example... Can anything be done?

Finally, at other condos, what kind of number of votes does one need to be elected in the first place? At my condo, you can be in the committee with only one vote. (This can happen if there are not enough volunteer candidates running).

Thanks, KondoKitty

My second question is that anyone know where to find data for actual sales prices (ie. Baht/m2) in various projects? Would be nice to know. Asking price rarely is the final price paid i believe...

which projects; i have some research for some of the higher end ones.

As far as new vs. second hand, it is easier to borrow on a new property than second hand. So...people buy new.

The two areas doing well are:

- low cost afordable housing e.g. LPN

- extremely high end - higher than the river, Sukhothai type level

the middle upper section is rather tough.

Both the above two there are viable markets and in the case of super luxury, there are very few sites that are truly luxurious (and the RIver is not one of them).

1. Just wondering why The River is NOT considered "truly luxurious"?

2. What other properties are "extremely high end" and how do prices compare with The River?

Thanks, KondoKitty