bobby57

I've been trying to get layers for 3 years with no success!! Can you please tell me the details for the supplier in BKK which you used??

having now read a lot .. and been to see a few farms we're ready to try some NFT farming on a few rai

I'm in 2 minds on self build DIY or buying the setup from one of the BKK suppliers or even a bit of mix and match..

what's puzzling me at the moment is many of the things I've read say square gullies are the only way

quote from something i found

"One of the biggest mistakes "not the only one though" is using oval guttering for your homemade NFT system, as the very nature of this system is to have a film of water "between 1mm & 3mm" over a fairly wide surface area, so as you can see, so using a round water gully is somewhat pointless."

however in books such as how to hydroponics by keith roberto it says round pipes are just as good.

the other thing is i know one of the main suppliers outside of bkk does a seminar every month all about hydroponics (i assume to encourage you to buy there kit)

as farangs cannot be a farmer anyway (only a consultant ?) can we go to the seminar with our wives and listen or are we reliant upon her in doors summing up the 8 hour session in a 3 minute conversation after the act

I've been at Hydro for a couple of years in Ban Pai, Khon Khen and still learning. ban Sai rubbish - I use Wesco who are very helpful. Built all my own stuff - floating beds and substrate beds. Ph a problem if you use concrete water storage!! Found that out the hard way! I got my Ph reader through ban Sai (lonh ago) @ 3000 baht.

Best of luck

Does anyone khow if Al Jacera TV can be recieved here - especially in Isan? I'm seriously missing my rugby (except of us kikking the Brits while I was in Bkk on the 2nd!) and searching for a source! Internet is out according to TOT as 10kms outside our small local town! My son in Dubai had the same problem with his cable provider and now has a card from Al jacera which he substitutes in his normal provider box and it works great (card about 3500 baht a year). Can the same be done here with the True box???????

I'm no expert either and the only chickens I have been able to get here are the "village" variety. Mine all went into the pot when the laying stopped - not mine as I'm vegetarian, though not sentimental!

What I wanted to ask you was where you bought the birds?? I have had no luck trying to locate decent layers.

I would like it if someone can clarify what is DSTV please. I have stayed in several cheap hotels in Thailand, out of BKK who show a South African based TV shows. I must say the selection is far superior to my liking for modern shows that the top package of TRUE UBC I had.

I have also seen this same selection in Sri Lanka and India.

Anyone know if we can get this here?

Comment from a beginner!!

This month have discovered that True are not coverinmg the rugby from home! So now looking for who does. Found the DSTV from SA b ut how does one get it?? I live in the middle of nowhere (ie rice field country) in Khon Khen. Any suggestions from anyone?/

HELP

I've been trying all kinds of everything hydroponically over the past year. Cabbage came most of the way and they faded away, as did brocolli but the cauliflower made! It seemed to do best in shaded places. Am starting another load spaced amidst the tomatoes but wouldn't know how successful for a few months.

Best of luck

[i only grow rocket lettuce because it is so expensive here. (Villa SM about Bt700 per Kg) I use a simple floating bed. It grows very well. I do have difficulty raising seedlings first,many die.. I get some friend to post me the seeds from UK or US.

Regarding ph just add a little vinegar to your nutrient. The cement jars need to be seasoned first to leach out the chemical that causes problems, Fill each one with water, cover them and leave them for 1 month. then empty them and srcrub the inside whillst hosing it down. Let dry well and then fill with rainwater. a

Virtually all the seeds I've got from home have been a disaster! For lettice (as most all plants) I am relying on locally bought seeds, planted in sand/rice hull beds and watered with nutrients. The seeds in the cans come up great though the packets tend not to. then I transfer into polystyrene beds - have a square meter of baby lettuce awaiting transfer at the moment!!

Thanks for the gem on the jars.

What is a good hardware store in Thailand for finding these items? Also, did you make your greenhouse or buy a commercial one? I have found that "Global House" is a big hardware store in Thailand but there are not so many stores. Thanks.

I built all my greenhouses myself - with various mistakes!! The most successful (and cheap) structures are raised beds in blocks of 4 @ 6m X 1.25m. These are roofed with plastic sheeting raised 1.5m on one long side and 1m on the other. All around netting. The frame is a basic 2 x 1 though I am now using heavier wood on the 1m side to take guttering for collection my rain.

Hello bobby57, is your statement based on being a hobby grower or commercial grower? If I had to save rain water for my growing needs, it would make a 'very expensive' irrigation system, much more than my 6lt.

plastic watering can,(Bt.75) which worked great last season on 300+ bagged plants, and working good so far this season on the first 100 of 800 plants by hydro.(pump and drip will be installed next month to save on nutes)

At the moment between the two!! In waterbeds I have 20 averaging 6 mt by 1.25. For rice hull mix I have about the same! Selling a bit around the mooban but still getting things sorted!! A long and problem strewn process!! Regarding the water pH - Wesco advised adding Nitric acid - finally sorted through a hardware store and due today only to have my meter start giving readings of 19.1 yesterday!! Into town today for new batteries in the hope that that is the problem as the info which came with the meter is in Thai so have no idea how to recalibrate it!!

The initial water storage systems a bit expensive - water jars and two undergroung water storage (cement!) tanks - 25,000 liter and 80'000 liter. Added to about 30 jars - collection and storage! I figure I shall need about 500,000 liters per year and if I took that from the small village supply they'd all smell a lot worse!!

Looking through the various hydroponic postings it seems to me that you guys are all doing fancy / complicated systems. I wonder is there anyone else out there doing it on the cheap!

I am using two systems - simple floating beds(Pak Bong and Lettuce) and sand/ rice hull mix beds (tomatoe, bean, cucumber etc)

No complicated feed systems, just a hose and watering can. Finding lots of problems and slowly overcoming them - e.g. I use rain water so no impurities. EXCEPT that I store it in those big concrete jars and have not discovered that they mess up the pH so have to get nitric acid to rectify the problem.

I'm looking to find anyone else out there having suffered and overcome suck surprises.

Excuse me for asking a silly question regarding the 1:100. Does this apply for after you have mixed your 10L then from the recipe supplied. It is then 1 part of the concentrate 10L mixed with 100 parts water.

I think Rice nasweed it ok but I'll shoot anyway. The formula from bangsai is really messy with adding one bit to 30 liters another to 20 liters and so on they bung em all together and topup! The Wesco is straight forward - just get 2 buckets - one A and the other B. Put 9 liters of water in each. Bung in the chemicals and stir about. Top up to 10 liters. In my case I make up 100 liters at a time so just multiply everything by 10. very straight forward after messing with the Bangsai mix. havent made any up yet but will advise resulte when I do. Still have a few hundred liters of bangSai stull to use up!

Hello thescot, first, what I said about 500lt, is that is what a 5lt kit will make. you will not be needing it at one time, I do.

100 shot glasses of water, 1 shot of A, 1 shot of B gives you a working solution ie- 1 to 100, you may need to adjust up or down to get the right EC/CF to grow your greens/lettuce. I didn't bring pH into the picture either.

ACK told me to add A to 5lt of water in a jug, the same with B! when I needed to make the working stock(plant food) of 100lt, add 90lt of water, add .90lt A and mix. Add .90lt of B and mix and check the EC/CF and work fwd. from there to get what you need. Don't add all your water at first, you may make it to strong(EC/CF above what you need. if your at 2.2 and you need 2.0, how do you add more water if you tank is full).

After doing it a few times, you'll learn the tricks.

ON another TV hydro post, I posted EC/CF and pH for most of what everybody's growing except cantaloupe, much different than cuks.

Most large hydro growing operations don't mix and wait, they use dosing on the fly, same with NTF systems, the nutrients are monitored and adjusted in real time. Automatic dosing systems, ACK and Accent both us them, as all big hydro farms do except Bangsai, one of the weak points of there DFT systems.

rice555

Hi Rice,

had a very plesent meeting with Wesco and enclose their recipie for comments. Also their prices are way cheaper that bangSai - I worked it to 160 baht for 10L each of A and B. While they seem to do the main chemicals in 25kilo bags the lesser ones come in smaller amount - see the attached invoice. Also their freight charge is better than bangsai - this one also included all my bangkok shopping!!

Doc1.doc

Doc1.doc

We work on between 12-14 weeks from transplant (into the final growing bed) to when we pull them out. They are staggered so that we will always have tomatoes. It's a question of how many beds you have divided by 12-14 to figure out how many you are going to plant each week.

Hopefully I can pick your brains a bit! Below pictures of seed bed - initial transplant and final stage. The final is from the first lot I tried! They are in floating beds with no airation and only the chemicals from Bangsa.. have now bought new chemicals from Wesco which should improve things - can't make em worse!! Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

I plan to use 6" hollow blocks and line it with plastic sheet and use 2 standard 1/2 inch 120cmX60cm foam rafts.

comments from the experts welcome......

Just a comment on the foam rafts - go for as thick as you can get. I'm using one inch and they often get water logged and too heavy to lift without breaking - especially when loaded with plants. Apparently (advised from Wesco) they also contain a chemical that interacts with the nutrients!! I haven't noticed any problems yet but them eyesight ain't what it used to be! Will advise if I locate a good source for foams.

Another point I noticed while scanning down these postings was raising the seeds. Initially I used the foam cubes from bangsai but now I use a shallow bed of sand/rice hull with lots of water and transfer the plants to 1" foam squares when they have a bit of root - much easier on the eyes!

Best of luck

Hello bobby57, nice looking setup, more pictures please!

I was talking to joeycano last night about his project and the results he was having and changes he wants to make. He's mailing back to me the 3DVD's that are covered here: http://www.carbon.org/catalog/pub/startdvd2.htm

Which show hydro using worm castings, great for alternative farming if you want to go that route.

I'm no hydro expert, still going through the early learning process.

Were you able to get your covering local? I have a store that I was able to get black 8-12ft wide, clear 12ft and UV-clear 10ft by the meter or roll.

rice555

When I got mu first lot of chemicals from bangsai I also bought 3 rolls of UV clear plastic for the roofing - 2 used so far! The black lining I've been buying locally but lots of leak problems. have now started plastering the beds with waterproofed cement - the first fill has generally then had chemical problems so shall try washing them down before filling properly with the next batch of four that I'm currently building.

Hello bobby57, after a brief phone conversation with jaideeguy, what are you using for the float? Is it the foam you see every where's, from signs to clogged clongs?

I've not seen sheets of the good stuff except the top boards at Bangsai

rice555

Just sheets of polystyrene from the local bookstore! 1inch thick by 4 feet. Burning the holes with a hot piece of pipe. They're a little fragile so need a tender touch. Would rather and extra half inch of thickness but haven't been successful finding it yet.

A few more phots as requested from various places around the two farms.

Bobby,

As you are finding out, hydroponics is a fickle business......The problems are, in my opinion, similar to those faced by the guys who put a man on the moon, only they succeeded......

Every type of system is different and you have to figure out what works given your crop type, your weather, your water, your system etc..etc...

No matter what you read the best you can hope for is that you are pointed in the right direction, after that you are on your own due to your own very unique set of parameters and this is when the "fun" starts......It takes time although there are those that will get there quicker than others if they have some experience of growing under differing conditions (I am not part of that group).

I have been screwing around up here in Mahasarakam with tomatoes since Adam was a lad (actually off and on for about 5 years) and although I believe I am finally pretty close to cracking it, until I have grown them through all our seasons I will not consider I have reached my goal.

In short, stick with it as it will finally be very rewarding to see your produce (especially whan all around you are telling you that it is impossible to do what you are doing in Issarn). At which point you can deftly produce the finger.....

Attached is a picture of my US tomato plants taken earlier this year and it is this that keeps you going and your sanity intact.

Regards

Irrigator

Very impressive tomatoe set-up - looks likethe liquids are being pumpted through whereas mine are either floating or in sand/rice hull mix. Mine look very unhappy! have tried alternating the feed for the mix ones but they're still not happy. Am getting some fruit though. most of the tomatoe plants are local small things - 30 baht for a tin of seed - but a few are nice ones! Similar problems with both. Shall be seeing Wesco on Thursday so am hoping for a final solution! The water convolvus stuff is doing great in most beds - still some problems to sort - so locals are now having to accept that the farrange is not a total idiot! Just jai rhon mac mac!!

According to the following document from Philippine Council for Agriculture this simple system from Taiwan Ag website about a Philippines government initiatve works well the production figures are given too, for a small installation. Please let me know if any one has tried this system and how well it works without a greenhouse here in LOS.

Finally something upon which I can comment with a modicum of confidence! Though I hasten to add that I am far from the expert which Rice is.

I am familiar with the Philippino site and have it downloaded though have yet to plough through the figures; I shall do when I have my own to compare with theirs. A far better source is the Institute of Simplified Hydroponics at www.carbon.org who provide a course on DVDs for agricultural inepts such as myself.

I have been experimenting with various plants over the past year. I include a picture of 4 six meter beds filled with Water Convolvus which grows great with no air pumps and even when I’m too lazy to stick my hand in the waterWith other crops I have had far less success. Chinese celery was a total disaster! Everything died very quickly, irrespective of where it was placed. Could be the chemicals (A & B from Bangsai Aggro); or the temperature / direct sunlight; or lack of bubbles. Chinese Kale fared slightly better – surviving somewhat in the shade.

I have been in contact with Wesco who have been extreamly helpful and I am to meet them in Bangkok next week with a view to solving some of the problems.

If you are anywhere near Konk Kaen feel free to drop in and take a look at my efforts. We even have a spare bedroom! We are 10 kms outside a town called Ban Pai towards Borabu. Phone: 0860927817.

can anyone supply any prices for any or all the hydroponic equipment and accessories that ACK supply. I sent amail to them last week but as yet have not had any reply. Thanks in advance.

Thescot

Similar experience - got a reply to my first email but the subsequent seeking clarification ignored! Dropping in from Khon Khen is not an option.

Email to Wesco brought immediate telephone responce and a long interesting conversation. Waiting for photos etc to load now to email them to Wesco for further advice on required chemicals.

Hello bobby57, WESCO only sales 'bulk' dry chem's/T-E's and custom blends.

I don't know the amount you need/use, but there smallest kit makes about 12,000L. of nutes. If you don't use much, it's easier to buy liquid/dry nutes from one of the co's that have been listed on one of the hydro threads. If you are like me and got tires of the BS and want to make your own, that can cost a lot to start, but the cost are much lower than store bought. If you are a small grower, it's hard to find small amounts of most chems, they normally come 25kg bags, so a bag of MAP will make 50 5L kits@ 50grs a kit. The STEM/micro nutes do come in 1kg. You need to have a DRY/low humidity place to keep/mix the 6 or7-25kg bags and 3or4 1kg bags.

Making my own now, I still do have a small crystalline problem on the bulk tank(working stock) walls and is more prevalent on the A-B balk tank cap threads. I also get some skimming at times on the bulk tank, I think my potassium nitrate or mag sulfate is the problem, but I'm not using a lot now, things are in the planning stage for an Aug. planting if the econ picks up, waiting for the seed to arrive.

rice555

How do I find WESCO? I tried google but only got electrical stuff.

I had to change some of my floating beds from plastic sheeting to plastered concrete - rats eating through and making nests!! Since then to percentage of precipitation has increased. Seems to be taking a lot of nitrogen out of the mix as the plants go pale yellow. have started experimenting with adding 10-10-10 and similar and that seems to be helping.

I still have enough chemical for about 300 liters each od their A & B but can use that up on the rice hull / sand beds. I would rather change away from bangsai - not only because there appear too many problems with their chemicals but also their "service". I have pirchased from them at distance now 3 times and each time followed their directions but each time they ignored the fax and nothing happened till a follow up phone call. The first time was for their kit which was sent by mail but the last 2 were for substantial amounts (weight) and I was charged for delivery to my home but only got delivery to the nearest town - the last time they charged me 900 baht for delivery but the delivery company gave me their paper work which showed a charge of 80 baht!

Do you find that the WESCO mixes are good? My floating beds are a mix of that veg and tomatoes!! Its because many are modified from earlier raised beds and the polystyrene boards don't exaactly measure up too good! So fill the back with off-cuts containing tomatoes!!

Best Wishes

I've just visited Bangsaiagro's website and found the formula (components) of their A & B nutes. In the 'A' the NPK is 269/57/326!!! That's an accident waiting to happen. The instructions then say to add the 'B' (which hasn't any NPK, and not all the compliment of micros) to the res ONE day later (after application of the 'A' in the res)!!! <deleted>???

Has anyone on here ever actually used these nutes? If yes, what was the outcome...???

I am in the process of building up my farm and use their chemicals. I am not experienced and its a lot of trial and error. Since reading your posting I've started to doubt their god-like chemistry! Sometimes when the A is added to the water there is a lot of white precipitation - these beds don't seem to grow too well unless they get a lot of agitation.

I tried cabbage etc with no success - they stared grand but then near the end started to rot! For "Thai" vegetables like pak, the system seems to work well but the secong crop shows a lot of yellowing - they say to add 50% to second toip-ups but I'm begining to think thats not enough.

Also using their A & B for the rice/sand mix as can't get anything else!! Tried the company Rice suggested but they just gave me the phone number for bangsai!! Anyway these seem to be growing OK though a little slowly

Any and all comments / advice greatly appreciated!.

bobby 57--did you interpret Bangsai's instructions the same way as me (adding part B only one day after filling the res with A) ??? What's the point in a part B if there's zero nutes and only a few trace elements? If there's a method to their madness it's beyond me. Whatever...

Regardless, if the NPK of part A is actually 2.7-0.6-3.3 it is WAY defecient in phosforous. No wonder you're having probs...

Yes, that was my understanding - though being an impatient bugger I sometimes only waited a few hours with no perceptible effect! Can I ask you the same question I just asked Rice - how does one add an individual nutrient with confidence that the resulting chemical interaction wouldn'e mess everything up even further??

In some cases I noted yellowing of new growth - shortage of sulpher - but how to add? The only place it appears in bangsai's stuff is in B, so just chuck in more B?? I should have paid more attention inj chemistry in college instead of playing around to see who could get the biggest bang! (possibly an Irish trait!).

Best Wishes

Hello bobby57, WESCO only sales 'bulk' dry chem's/T-E's and custom blends.

I don't know the amount you need/use, but there smallest kit makes about 12,000L. of nutes. If you don't use much, it's easier to buy liquid/dry nutes from one of the co's that have been listed on one of the hydro threads. If you are like me and got tires of the BS and want to make your own, that can cost a lot to start, but the cost are much lower than store bought. If you are a small grower, it's hard to find small amounts of most chems, they normally come 25kg bags, so a bag of MAP will make 50 5L kits@ 50grs a kit. The STEM/micro nutes do come in 1kg. You need to have a DRY/low humidity place to keep/mix the 6 or7-25kg bags and 3or4 1kg bags.

Making my own now, I still do have a small crystalline problem on the bulk tank(working stock) walls and is more prevalent on the A-B balk tank cap threads. I also get some skimming at times on the bulk tank, I think my potassium nitrate or mag sulfate is the problem, but I'm not using a lot now, things are in the planning stage for an Aug. planting if the econ picks up, waiting for the seed to arrive.

rice555

Hi Rice - did you get the photos I emailed to the hotmail box a few months ago??

At the moment I'm up to about 1,000 liters (A & of concentrate per annum and rising!! Nearly all floating beds - water convolus at the moment as thats what the better half can sell easiest!! The tomatoe plants are also looking seriously good! Bracias were a noteable failure! Could that be a phosperous shortage????

How do you add a missing element? Probably a stupid question from a stupid gardner but any of the chemicals I can find are compounds rather than pure and I don't remember chemistry well enough to know if there would be chemical reactions defeating the purpose! I do remember that raw phospherous is fun stuff! Just look at the Israelies in gaza! Somehow I don't think lobbing phospherous grenades and running like hel_l will solve the problem! Could be fun though!

When I got the stuff from the states I asked about the chemistry and was told that it wasn't critical! I guess they never tried to buy chemicals in Thailand!!

All best wishes

I've just visited Bangsaiagro's website and found the formula (components) of their A & B nutes. In the 'A' the NPK is 269/57/326!!! That's an accident waiting to happen. The instructions then say to add the 'B' (which hasn't any NPK, and not all the compliment of micros) to the res ONE day later (after application of the 'A' in the res)!!! <deleted>???

Has anyone on here ever actually used these nutes? If yes, what was the outcome...???

I am in the process of building up my farm and use their chemicals. I am not experienced and its a lot of trial and error. Since reading your posting I've started to doubt their god-like chemistry! Sometimes when the A is added to the water there is a lot of white precipitation - these beds don't seem to grow too well unless they get a lot of agitation.

I tried cabbage etc with no success - they stared grand but then near the end started to rot! For "Thai" vegetables like pak, the system seems to work well but the secong crop shows a lot of yellowing - they say to add 50% to second toip-ups but I'm begining to think thats not enough.

Also using their A & B for the rice/sand mix as can't get anything else!! Tried the company Rice suggested but they just gave me the phone number for bangsai!! Anyway these seem to be growing OK though a little slowly

Any and all comments / advice greatly appreciated!.

My initial responce the same. However, one item left short (and marked so on the delivery note), with no other comments. 6 emails so far ignored! One replied to when it was also copied to thaivisa, merely requesting the details again. Since then silence. maybe I'm just unlucky!!