thaicbr

thailand (or siam) was controlled by burma (from ~1550 to ~1800) and by japan (1941 to 1945)

parts of the country were taken by british and french empires and later became part of other countries

i recommend not to discuss this subject with thai people as they can get a bit emotional about it

Well for starters the burmese never controlled siam for that long. People get emotional because you're full of ****

But this did happen

"

• • To totally destroy an entire city.. destruction of such magnitude, multiple huge stone temples . without bull dozers.. it must have been quite a demolition project!

The Burmese destruction of Ayutthaya in 1767 resulted in the loss of all official Thai government paperwork & records.

Chalerm's staying power has often been questioned through this forum and it's been suggested he must have some super black on the Shin's otherwise how could he survive ?

His sycophantic credentials are well known " I want Mr. T back, I miss him ", so how can he survive this, almost everywhere else he would be booted out for giving an interview, claiming authority over a hot topic and having to be be discredited by a Deputy PM.

OK, TIT but how does he get away with it ?

They go back A LONG way.. from Thaksins Wiki.

"In 1989 he launched IBC, a cable television company. At that time, Thaksin had a very good relationship with Chalerm Yoobumrung the Minister of the Prime Minister Office who was in charge of Thai press and media. It is a question that remains unanswered whether Chalerm granted the right to Thaksin to establish IBC just to benefit his close friend, seeing that this project had been denied by the previous administration but instantly accepted a very short period after Chalerm came to office"

I am confused as to why those that voted for the amendment are being impeached - does this set a precedent that where anything voted for that is later struck down by the CC would have those that voted for it banned?

Because they are deemed to have tried to alter the constitution undemocratically, and voted for an undemocratic constitution, which in itself is against the constitution, so have violated the contsitution and parliamentary proceedures in doing so. whence the moves to impeach them!

Yes, an elected government votes for this terribly 'undemocratic constitution' of a fully elected senate... what you've just said sounds ridiculous to me, sorry. But I probably needn't keep repeating myself. lol.

It's not what they are doing BUT how they are doing it. The revised fully elected senate could have immediate family members of sitting MP's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_MPs_elected_in_the_Thai_general_election,_2011

If you look at the list of Mp's you already have areas that 2 or 3 members of the family are MP's and then more will be at the provincial level, Governors, Head of Provincial administrations etc

That surely is not good for democracy Thai style or any other!

I don't think PTP would win another election with politics in its current state and solely at their hands.

Their popularity was at an all time low and the latest polls showed that the Dems would likely win the next election, since those polls the situation has got a lot worse for them.

It would not be hard for the Dems to send out the spies to video PTP vote buying in the run up to the next elections would it. Compile all this evidence and present it to the NACC and the EC and have the PTP banned.

This would put the Dems in the front seat, no need for them to be corrupt with the pay per vote. This could also make it very difficult in the future for any vote buying. It would have to be confined to vote buying indirectly via populist policies aimed at a specific voter. That one has been seen to be lies in the past with the minimum wage up to 15,000 a month for holders of bachelor's degrees that didn't happen, and the ipads that were 1000 baht Chinese androids that are all broken now (didn't they pay ipad 3 prices for those?.... more corruption). I won't even mention the rice pledging scheme.

Well if I were leader of the Dems, that is what I would be doing.

I suspect this is very much wishful thinking on your part. The polls did show an initial loss of support, particularly, I believe in Issan (which is supported by the relatively low numbers of red shirts that turned up the other day). But I don't think there's any reason to assume that things have got a 'lot worse' re people's perceptions, especially in the N/NE since then. I think it's very likely to be already swinging back the other way. The amnesty is off the table for now and that's the main reason for the drop it support. The way I see it, the longer Suthep protests, and the more interference there is in the legitimate actions of the government - either from the judiciary or the NACC or whoever else is ready to join the party - the more sympathy for the government will grow. I expect the government will win the next election as things stand, albeit with a reduced majority. Of course, the longer they stay in power and the further we move away from the botched amnesty, the better as far as the govt is concerned. The government still holds most of the aces.

These figures obviously aren't as good as a poll, but I think you can sort of gauge the popularity of the relative parties by looking at the viewing figures for the respective partisan TV channels, you'll note that Asia Update was overtaken by Blue Sky Channel briefly at about the point when the government was trying to push the amnesty bill through, but now that's off the cards, normal service has resumed and Asia Update is more popular again: http://asiancorrespondent.com/116007/politically-partisan-tv-channels-gain-popularity-in-thailand/ Although as Bangkok Pundit says, Blue Sky has come from nowhere to being a contender, so that's definitely good news for the Democrats. Obviously this isn't going to be completely accurate because it's not like just Democrat supporters watch Blue Sky and vice versa, in the same way that a lot of liberals enjoying watching Fox News if they want a laugh (or to be outraged or whatever).

On your 'spies' point, surely if it were that easy people would be doing it at every election? I mean PPP did get banned in 2008 after one of their executives was filmed taking village heads on a Bangkok jaunt, so there's that. And also why wouldn't PTP just send out their 'spys' and film the Democrats vote buying? Either it's not so conspicuous or as common as you suppose it is, or both parties have a mutual interest in keeping things as they are.

Well one thing getting worse.It seems the BAAC have run out of money to pay the farmers for the rice.

That's were the Democrats want to focus.. explaining in clear easy terms why the rice pledging is imploding.. and how their system even though it didn't give quite give as much but it was sustainable. and the explain the devastation that is happening to Thais TRADITIONAL lead in rice sales. Cambodia voted best rice 2 years in a row...etc etc etc.

Knowing how the folks in Songkhla think about the PTP government ...... I predict some loud whistles!

The folks from Songkhla will certainly not need vocational students as security guards like those Student and People's Network protesters at Makkawan bridge, Bangkok...Oh yes, the guards are already gone there, dismissed for provoking violence.

That's good responsible action from the organizers then isn't it?

I don't agree with the bill, but where were the 40 senators when the vote was taken? It was only approved 63 to 14. Should there not have been at least 40 dissenting votes?

Sent from my i-mobile IQ X using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I'm just guessing but probably they were already tucked up in bed as the session had officially finished at midnight to be resumed at 9am the next morning as told by the Senate house speaker. But the vote was done at 3am PTP democracy in action.

Interesting article here..

http://asiancorrespondent.com/116166/thailands-69-5bn-transport-plan-faces-legal-test/

It states that these projects will be finished by 2020. Really!!!!!

Spokesman Pormpong Nopparit said the party was looking at a number of legal avenues to fight the verdict, including trying to impeach the five judges who ruled the party had violated its powers in the process of passing the bill.

"I understand that impeachment might be difficult, but we have to try in order to protect people power and to assert that it is the right of the people to amend the constitution," he said.

If it is the right of the people to amend the constitution let them, Have a referendum, offer up 2 or 3 choices LET THE PEOPLE DECIDE.

Military coup - too obvious. Judicial coup - too divisive. Welcome to 'Subverting Democracy Pt III - Rule By Constitution Court'. 555.

Or exactly the opposite.. Rule of law rather than rule by convicted self imposed exiler.

All this government have to do is follow the rules and laws of the land.. it ain't difficult.

The infrastructure plan got through the senate because the Senate speaker lied about ending the meeting and pulled a vote at 2.35am after stating that the meeting would end at 12 and reconvene the nest day at 9am...

The amnesty bill was due for 3 days of deliberation in Parliament 31 Oct-2 Nov.

day1 and 2 on part 2 and day 3 part 3 and final vote. it was all done and dusted at 4.45am on the 1 Nov after 19 hours.. again the House speaker stated that each day should end at midnight.. Go figure.

I wonder if they actually check the charity status of JC society foundation. Because other than scam alerts there is NOTHING on the net.

There is a JC foundation in the US.

Tried to withdraw a couple of hundred thousand from them this morning.....and was told to come back in a couple of months......went to the atm and got KIP.....this country is messed up!

Really!!! You have an account with BAAC?

KIP as in Laos money???

The issue here is not the merits of the infrastructure bill, but the fact that the Constitutional Court is being asked, time and time again, to make policy. I find it quite ironic that a political party dubbed "The Democracts" would attempt to legislate not through a majority in Parliament brought about by actual elections but through the courts. I suppose it is to be expected. The Democrats apparently feel no need to compete in national elections so therefore they have no choice but to use the courts.

I find it ironic that a political party and serving government Phua Thai have a protest wing called the UDD (United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship)

And a leader/owner who is a convicted criminal on the run/ self imposed exile and has reportedly signed resignation letters from all MP's in his party. Dictatorship!!!!

Jeez Dave..welcome to Thailand, time to do some research, and not wikipedia, thats like using urban dictionary to find the definition of Obama.

I think you are attacking the messenger, instead of the message. OK, give me a better general source of info on the net than Wikipedia

Wiki is ok BUT Amsterdam had/has cleaned up and sanitized many Thaksin mentions and demonized some Democrat mentions.

so it pays to check the info, if possible. OH and read the whole thing.

He's achieved so much in the 3 weeks or so...all with no violence..no-one hurt (that I know of)....got bad legislation proposals quashed...gave an incompetent and corrupt government a major shake up.....gave TS (and 25000 others) a big set-back in his bid for freedom......good on him I say!

He is a seditionist wanting to overthrow an elected government by force. This is an act of treason, and should be punished accordingly. There is no "Thaksin" government. Thaksin's sister does not make it his government. He is a convicted felon living in exile.

Good grief.. I have never ever met someone on here that had such opaque vision.

Phua Thai is Thaksins political tool http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pheu_Thai_Party

He owns it, runs it and is in control of it. It has been stated many times in Thai and ENGLISH PRESS BY HIMSELF and others.

Suthep is also an idiot, a politician of the old school that Thailand would be best done with BUT he was careful to state Thaksin regime.. Not the government.

No matter how much control Thaksin has over Pheu Thai, it is still the people's government that was elected. Only the people can, and should, change it.

Unless they are breaking the law or constitution. I agree.

By the way it would be nice if they ACTED like the peoples government rather than the PERSONS GOVERNMENT.

More PEOPLE DIDN'T vote for PTP than did!

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_general_election,_2011 please read all of it and do some basic math.

Sent from my phone with the app thingy.

 

 

 

Following is from Wikipedia re Thaksin being elected in 2005:

 2005 re-election campaign[

Under the slogans "Four Years of Repair – Four years of Reconstruction" and "Building Opportunities", Thaksin and the TRT won landslide victories in the February 2005 elections, sweeping 374 out of 500 seats in Parliament. The election had the highest voter turnout in Thai history.

 

 

Are you seriously not aware that there were elections in 2006?

 

 

Here is what Wikipedia has to say about the 2006 election:

 

After Thailand's April 2006 elections were declared invalid by the Constitutional Court, it was decided that new elections would be held on 15 October 2006. Due to delays in the nomination of a new election committee the election were likely to be moved to November, but then cancelled indefinitely after the military's overthrow of the Thai government.

 

Well done moradave you learnt how to research.  From the same source you quoted..........

 

"Thaksin announced on 4 April 2006 that he would not accept the post of Prime Minister after Parliament reconvened, but would continue as Caretaker Prime Minister until then.

He then delegated his functions to Caretaker Deputy Prime Minister Chidchai Wannasathit, moved out of Government House, and went on vacation."

 

"After taking a one-month leave, Thai Caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra returned to work at Government House Monday, convening a security meeting dealing with the growing violence in the country's three southernmost provinces of Pattani, Yala, and Narathiwat."

 

Without a sitting Parliament, Thai Rak Thai MPs are in disarray.........How long can Thaksin sustain his role as a caretaker prime minister, which has absurdly exceeded 90 days - the time period during which a new election must be held after the end of the House session as required by the Constitution?  http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/07/07/opinion/opinion_30008188.php

 

The coup occurred 5 months later.

 

 

Are you saying that The Nation is a more reliable source than Wikipedia?

And does all of this justify a coup when new elections have been scheduled for October? Or is the coup because new elections have been scheduled for October?

 

If there is a better general source of information on the net than Wikipedia, I would like to know what it is.

No. He's saying read the whole bloody thing. Then go get some more info to back it up and read that as well. It boils down to Thaksin was NOT PM at the time of the Coup. He was caretaker PM and had been for to long. He should have called an election within 90 days of dissolution.

Sent from my phone with the app thingy.

Pheu Thai Party up in arms against Constitution Court

By English News

BANGKOK, Nov 22 – The ruling Pheu Thai Party has rejected the Constitution Court’s verdict on the charter amendment and plans to remove six of the nine judges who voted for the judgement.

Pheu Thai leader Charupong Ruangsuwan met urgently with party executives yesterday to discuss the court’s verdict which ruled that the government MPs and senators breached the charter in passing a bill to change the composition of the Senate.

The current Senate is composed of elected and appointed senators but Parliament passed a bill which, if promulgated, will require all elected members for the Upper House.

Mr Charupong said the charter change, proposed by 312 MPs and senators, was in accordance with democratic principles and said that the lawmakers followed the 1997 people-initiated constitution.

He said Section 291 of the Constitution clearly states that the power to amend the charter belongs to Parliament.

He said the bill, which was passed by the Lower and Upper Houses, was submitted to His Majesty the King for royal endorsement within 90 days.

The Constitution Court does not have the right to infringe on the right of the legislative branch and its Wednesday ruling on charter amendment has affected His Majesty’s power, said Mr Charupong. (MCOT online news)

 

-- TNA 2013-11-22

But the 1997 constitution is the old one.... it's the 2007 one in effect now these PTP just don't understand the law of their own country. This is just a ploy to stop the problem and force the 1997 constitution back in.

Sent from my phone with the app thingy.

Suthep should end the current rally ASAP using the Kings birthday as a get out clause. No loss of face and can begin again if necessary.

with the end of this parliamentary session so close. It's unlikely anything will happen.

Although one question.

If Parliament is not in session would the "suspended" amnesty bill just "happen" after the 180days or does the government actually have to do something???

Sent from my phone with the app thingy.

Unbelievable.-

Certainly a lot doesn't seem to add up. They were held as slaves but could leave to meet the police!!!

I will await more news of this one.

Sent from my phone with the app thingy.

He's achieved so much in the 3 weeks or so...all with no violence..no-one hurt (that I know of)....got bad legislation proposals quashed...gave an incompetent and corrupt government a major shake up.....gave TS (and 25000 others) a big set-back in his bid for freedom......good on him I say!

He is a seditionist wanting to overthrow an elected government by force. This is an act of treason, and should be punished accordingly. There is no "Thaksin" government. Thaksin's sister does not make it his government. He is a convicted felon living in exile.

Good grief.. I have never ever met someone on here that had such opaque vision.

Phua Thai is Thaksins political tool http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pheu_Thai_Party

He owns it, runs it and is in control of it. It has been stated many times in Thai and ENGLISH PRESS BY HIMSELF and others.

Suthep is also an idiot, a politician of the old school that Thailand would be best done with BUT he was careful to state Thaksin regime.. Not the government.

And the Triumph dealer here doesn't really give a toss so no pressure brought on Triumph management. Dumb really, but there ya go.

It is the court's job only to interpret the law, not to make the law (parliament) or to enforce the law (executive branch) no matter how stupid, unfair or reprehensible the law might be. This decision was basically un-making a law passed by the parliament, according to the constitution, to allow the senate to be an all-elective body and therefore more democratic.

It is also the Constitution Courts job to ensure that the government adhere to the Constitution and therefor the rules of doing Parliamentary business. Which Phua Thai and allies seem almost hellbent on breaking or bending.

Forcing votes. rearranging debating times. not adhering to schedules etc

For your info, the bulk of the selected senators are rich highly educated elite CHINESE (mostly supporting the yellow PAD). The bulk of the elected senators are Thaksin cronies.

Have you even LOOKED at the Senate website. It details the Senators in ....... Detail Complete with contact addresses (unlike the Parliament website). http://thai.senate.go.th/in/english/member.php

I think your barking up the wrong tree here. And of course the selected senaters are highly educated thats kinda the point.

You don't really want the village idiot in the upper house.especially after they got him out of the lower house.... DO YOU?????

Especially when foreign investors are net sellers of bonds and a downgrade is imminent because of the rice scamming scheme that has drained all of the money from the coffers.

They will have to pay such high yields on the bonds as they risk becoming junk bonds the way things are deteriorating in the confidence of the Thai economy. Big business will have to pay higher interest rates on their borrowings if Thailand is downgraded, further adding to the woes!!

Yingluck!!, your days are numbered - you should have paid more attention to the economy (I know that you and your thicko buddies such as serial liar Kittirat don't understand such things) instead of thinking of your brother all the time as if it is just he that matters!!

You even cocked that up big time so why not disappear and let somebody with experience and who knows what he is doing ie: look no further than Abhisit to run the show!!

Great idea, get the unpopular and unelectable Abhisit to head up another unelected government and have his strings pulled by the usual suspects.

Didn't we try that already and it failed badly, with his new friends of Newin faction plundering the most lucrative government ministries to their heart's content?

It doesn't matter how badly this PTP government performs, they can rest assured the opposition is still as unpopular as ever and for the reasons for this just look to whom they are aligned with and their performances in office through the 90's and after the judicial coup.

Baton down the hatches as civil conflict is imminent!

Ohh the same Newin faction that may rejoin PTP (minus Newin) and were in the previous Thaksin administations. You also forgot the the slippery eel Banharn Silpa Archer the guy and his party have been in pretty much EVERY government since he started in politics (36 years)

"Under the leadership of Banharn, the Thai Nation Party won the parliamentary election in 1995, and he became the 21st Prime Minister of Thailand, leading a seven-party coalition. Banharn has been involved in numerous corruption scandals one of which diminished the concordance in his administration and caused him to resign.^[4] His short-lived yet highly inept administration is also believed to have paved the way for the economic crisis of 1997.^[5]

During a state visit by Queen Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom in October 1996 he mistakenly referred to her as "Queen Elizabeth Taylor", receiving many ridicules and criticisms as a result.^[6]"

Supanburi have some great smooth roads even now 17 years after he was PM.

Very good pdf article/paper here about Banharn: http://www.yale.edu/seas/Nishizaki.pdf