Ratsima

I wonder how many of you find the following website to be offensive. It is the website of a Thai footwear manufacturer Thai Aree.

http://thaiaree.com/about-us-2/

The website contains the following photograph:

I've been told that portraying footwear is offensive to Thai culture. Is the website of this Thai footwear manufacturer considered to be offensive?

These speedtests are not reliable and often manipulated by the internet service provider by ''caching''.

Einstein said that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light... but your "ping" time did!

Forget speed tests as a reliable testing method

Ookla admits that Thai ISPs capture pings to their servers which result in the faster-than-the-speed-of-light ping times. They have yet to find a work-around.

But, Ookla denies that ISPs are able to cache the actual test files because they are all randomly named and of a random length. In other words, every test file is different so impossible to cache.

ตาปู is actually ตะปู

Your post explains perfectly why I've given up.

If I hear an Australian say, "I pahked the cah in the cah pahk", I know that he means, "I parked the car in the parking lot".

But, when the Thai hardware store owner hears me say ตาปู he doesn't have the wherewithal to figure out that I meant ตะปู. I mean, how much of a leap is it? How many products does he carry that sound like ตาปู? My guess is that there is exactly one and that it is ตะปู. Why doesn't he have the brain power to figure out what I meant to say? Why doesn't he have the courtesy to give it a shot? Why does he simply dismiss what I've said instead of making an effort to figure it out?

I'm a lazy, sloppy, careless person. Thais expect perfection of pronunciation. I'm never going to get there.

It's over.

Right. Lots of people with similar problems and no sure-fire solution.

I guess a wipe-and-restore is the obvious next step.

Thanks.

I had an aunt who said the following things:

- speak slowly, it will help the person speaking to you to speak slowly

- if they don't understand, carefully say the same thing again, exactly the same

Anyhow, I really do think you are very very close, easily good enough, are you in Bangkok? Upcountry sure, people cannot even always understand a city accent, in Bangkok people should be understanding you with this level of pronounciation.

I think your Aunt had some good advice. She probably understood more about cognition than she realized. I know I speak too quickly; perhaps in an attempt to sound more fluent.

When I repeat I usually try to say it in a different way. Maybe it is better to say the exact same thing, slowly and clearly.

BTW, I do always try to make sure there is some context to what I say. I'd never waltz into a restaurant and order food by simply blurting out the name of a dish. (Reminds me of a visit to the hardware store. I asked for ตาปู, but they didn't understand. I tried miming the action of a carpenter pounding a nail with a hammer. Still no luck. I found the nails on my own….)

Thanks for your insight and encouragement.

Similar to mine situation just i'm lucky because it took me 1 year not 18 years to discover i really need to learn tones,so i didn't lose much but still i had to start from bottom again.

I hope you understand why I gave up. I figure that about 95% of the Thai I know is totally wrong. The most monumental screw up of my life. If I could erase from my brain everything I know about Thai and start over again, I would. That seems to be not possible.

The solution I've found for myself is to try to be happy and have a full life without knowing or using the Thai language. It's not easy, but certainly a lot easier than, at age 64, starting from scratch.

Thanks to all. I'm done with this thread.

"If you receive benefits as a dependent or survivor of a worker, special requirements may affect your right to get Social Security payments while you are outside the United States. If you are not a U.S. citizen, you must have lived in the United States for at least five years. During those five years, the family relationship on which we base benefits must have continued to exist."

For some reason this quote got cut out of my original post.

From this publication:

http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10137.pdf

How old is she?

How long did she reside in the US while she was his spouse?

If she lived in the US for at least five years while she was married to him then she might be entitled to Social Security benefits as a surviving spouse at age 60.

I think that this short video sums up your struggle:

Watch to the end, which doesn't come until after the credits.

That's pretty much it. All that time. All that effort. No satisfying result.

I do try to use longer sentences. I usually start out with a greeting to get the mode of the conversation in to Thai. If I'm asking for something specific I often preface it with: ไม่ทราบว่ามี....

But, none of this helps if you're pronouncing everything wrong.

Consider the following words: nine, white, glass, rice, news, old

For me, the Thai pronunciation is the same. Something like "khao". I have no idea as to the correct initial consonant, the tone or the vowel length. All the same to me.

In other words, hopeless.

my girlfriend didn't understand either. When I said it she understood, and made these suggestions:

the word for garlic (กระเทียม) starts with a sound more like the 'g' in girl than the 'k' in kite. Also you might exaggerate the rising tone in muu (หมู) more, and make the vowel a little longer.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0JlbYAHGmOz

And herein lies the crux of the problem. I have no idea what the tone of any of those words is supposed to be. I have no idea what the tone of any Thai word is supposed to be. If I see a Thai word written down I can figure out the tone from the tone rules, but no information about tone is stored in my brain about any Thai word. Why? Because when I first started learning Thai nearly 18 years ago I made the stupid assumption that I could ignore tone and that listeners would understand based on context. How wrong I was.

And, yes, I often make a 'k' sound when I should be making more of a 'g' sound. Why? Because all of the texts from which I learned Thai used a 'k' to represent a 'ก'.

Yes, I have many regrets. Go back and read my first post in this thread.

At this point I just don't have the energy or the wherewithal to go back and learn the tone of every word and unlearn all the horrible pronunciation habits I have picked up over the years.

This is why I gave up.

Thanks to all for trying to help. It really is no use. Time to move on.

That was perfect! Like a Thai. I don't understand why you have any problems with speaking. You got all the tone right.

Ha ha! First time I've ever heard that.

I wonder why I have such a hard time?

Oh man i would really really like for you to record saying หมูทอดกระเทียม". (or something other)

Here it is.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1O79FAt2iVZ

BTW, what kind of media files can be uploaded? I tried m4a, m4v and mp4, but all were rejected.

So, yesterday I'm cycling in the boonies and stop for lunch. The proprietor of the restaurant asked me what I wanted.

I replied: "หมูทอดกระเทียม".

The proprietor gave me a puzzled look and said, "ข้าวผัด".

Well, no.

But, this is the story of my life with Thai. No one ever understands.

I keep trying, every single day, but make pretty much zero progress.

(And, yes, I eventually got my garlic fried pork, but it took many stabs and an especially tedious exchange clarifying that I wanted pork, not chicken.)

Right. For Thais "speaking Thai" is an all or nothing concept. That's why, as I saiid an earlier post, I conceal the fact that I can read. If a Thai finds out you can read they immediately assume you are conversationally fluent. An instant conversation stopper.

Now that I've admitted defeat I'm much better off.

Exactly. I never have a conversation because I can't get past the first utterance made by the other person. How can you practice when the conversation stalls almost immediately?

Plus, conversational Thai seems to be so different from what is taught.

Last night my wife started a sentence with ฝาก which seemed totally out of place to me. Of course, I stumbled on that and missed the rest.

(ฝากขอบคุณ....)

I only looked at the first part. I didn't understand much. It just goes by too fast. My brain can't parse Thai at that speed. It's the same feeling I get when watching TV or listening to conversation. It goes by too quickly. I miss a word or two which render the sentence unintelligible and pretty soon I've lost the meaning of the whole utterance.

I bet that if it were written I'd understand most of it.

Thanks for trying to help, but I really am done with it.

If I knew what the problem was I could figure out how to fix it.

When I hear spoken Thai I can't pick out any words at all. It's just an unintelligible buzz.

When I listen to my wife talk to friends or family on the phone or in person I understand zero. But, if she repeats it to me in what she calls "Rosetta Stone Thai", I understand quite a bit.

When watch the Thai TV news in the morning I don't understand anything the announcers say. Not a word. However, I can read some of the on screen text and usually understand the SMS messages posted at the bottom of the screen.

I've been through Becker, Pimsleur, Rosetta Stone, and 70% of High Speed Thai. I've spent hours with audio analysis software trying to improve my pronunciation. I've watched thirty minutes of Thai news per day for the last eight years. I watch a soap opera or two weekly. I started studying in 1996 with the Becker book and cassette tapes which I listened to for an hour a day while commuting. Many people have tried to help me with my pronunciation. They have all given up with a shake if the head.

After spending hundreds and hundreds of hours and dollars I finally realized that the pursuit was hopeless. No one understands anything I say and I don't understand any spoken Thai at all. It is by far the biggest, most frustrating and most humiliating failure of my life.

My favorite complex bread. You're invited to improvise. I always do.

Beer Bread

makes 2 loaves

the Beer Mixture

2 cups flat beer

1/2 cup cornmeal

2 Tablespoons butter

2 teaspoons salt

1/2 cup dark molasses

Pour beer into a small saucepan. Heat to steaming and remove from heat. Stir in next 4 ingredients. Set aside to cool.

the Yeast Mixture

1/2 cup warm water

4 1/2 teaspoon dry yeast (2 packages) or ½ cup sourdough starter

1 tablespoon sugar

Combine, stir, and let stand 10 minutes.

the Dry Ingredients

1 cup total wheat germ, wheat bran, rye or rolled oats

2 cups whole wheat flour

3 1/2 cups bread flour

Combine cooled beer mixture and yeast mixture in bowl of your stand mixer or a large mixing bowl. Add wheat germ, wheat bran, and whole wheat flour. Mix until fully incorporated. Add unbleached flour, one cup at a time, kneading to incorporate fully before adding more. Stop after 2 cups and test the dough. It should be moist but not sticky. If it is still sticky, add flour cautiously, 1/2 cup at a time. Avoid adding too much flour, it can become very heavy and tough. Knead dough for 10 minutes by hand or in mixer (less time- 5 minutes or so) until the dough is smooth and elastic. Place dough ball in an oiled bowl. Cover and allow to rise 1 hour.

Punch down and let rise 45 minutes. Sprinkle 2 greased cooking sheet with cornmeal. Punch down dough, divide in half and form 2 8-inch rounds. Place on cornmeal-topped pans. Cover and let rise 40 minutes. Preheat oven to 375 degrees. Brush top with egg white mixed with 1 tablespoon of water (for a nice shiny crust). Use a sharp knife to cut a # shape on the top of the loaves.

Bake for 40 minutes until bread is browned and sounds hollow when you knock on the bottom. Place on a cooling rack to cool.

I haven't tried a granite slab. I thought a proper bread stone had to be absorbent: terra cotta or sandstone.

I knead once after the dough has sat for three or four hours. I lightly knead when forming into a loaf.

First off, DO learn Thai if you're going to spend a substantial amount of time here. Your experience will be richer and more fun than if you didn't. Don't give up, everyone reaches a plateau now and then, but trust your effort will pay off in the long run.

Secondly, DO learn to read & write. I refused to learn my first couple of years here and it was a mistake. Once I could read a lot of problems I was having became easier to understand, and acquiring new vocabulary became easier. The other thing about reading and writing is that it's easier to learn than speaking/listening - so it keeps your confidence level up.

Have fun.

I gave up because after years and years of study and after learning how to read, I still made absolutely zero progress learning how to speak and understand. The constant failure to understand and to be understood was just way too depressing for me. I'm much happier now that I've accepted the fact that I will never learn conversational Thai.

For example: The other day I was on a long bicycle ride. I stopped to buy water three times. Each time I asked for น้ำเปล่า in my best Thai. Each time the shopkeeper looked at me as if I'd asked for tickets to a Puccini opera.

So, after 17 years of on and off study and after living here for nine years, I can't even ask for a bottle of plain water.

It was time to give up.