phraxos5

Urban legend, or he lost his cool and the police interpreted something he said as insulting to the King? That would explain the imprisonment. He already said he was scared when they found the items. He may have been asked to pay the police for finding the things, and became indignant. Frustrated, scared, hung over from a long night in spicy!.... Angry that sterling had lost 30% of its value in the middle of his trip? Things might have slipped out of his mouth.

Anyway Ive heard this type of thing before. Also offering to pay the police more money for helping usually lets things move along more easily here. (right or wrong, us lifers know that!). Most young backpackers consistently FREAK OUT when told to pay something under the table. They just dont understand how things work here. Urban legend or not, the penal system and law enforcement in Thailand may need some fine tuning. Lets try to support that happening in positive ways.

More crap

how so?

[/quote

The police in chang mai are notorious for taking payments under the table especially from farangs. With that being said, it makes the laws, which may be perfectly written as you point out, ineffective in the sense that faced with the possibility of receiving several times the normal monthly salary, a police officer may be tempted to bend the situation to his advantage in order to profit from it. Also the perpetrator may commit a crime thinking he can just pay his way out. You are living in a dream if you think this is not happening here. I think what you mean to say is that you can use it to your advantage if you are clever enough. Also I think we could all do without your multiple and antagonistic replies. If you have soething to say, say it, but don't be an asshol_e nobody needs that in these times.. I have reported you by the way.

HoHoHo

Urban legend, or he lost his cool and the police interpreted something he said as insulting to the King? That would explain the imprisonment. He already said he was scared when they found the items. He may have been asked to pay the police for finding the things, and became indignant. Frustrated, scared, hung over from a long night in spicy!.... Angry that sterling had lost 30% of its value in the middle of his trip? Things might have slipped out of his mouth.

Anyway Ive heard this type of thing before. Also offering to pay the police more money for helping usually lets things move along more easily here. (right or wrong, us lifers know that!). Most young backpackers consistently FREAK OUT when told to pay something under the table. They just dont understand how things work here. Urban legend or not, the penal system and law enforcement in Thailand may need some fine tuning. Lets try to support that happening in positive ways.

a friend of mine is now having to do 15 day border runs as his one year visa has expired, he has heard that it may be possible to get a one year visa extension as his girlfriend has just had a baby and it has his surname on the birth certificate. my friend is from england

can anyone help?

Here are the things I had when I applied for a new Non o successfully last week in Penang. I am living unmarried with a 1 year old child and his mother in thailand.

1. Deposited 1,700,000 in the bank however only 4 days before I applied.

(**I was told that 400,000 would be okay but that it has to be in the bank for at least 3 months.(they want to make sure you dont borrow the money from someone then give it back after you get the visa.)I was told that more than 800,000 proves you are not doing this so only a few days is ok.

2. Thai and translated birth certificate with my name as the father, and her name as the mother.

3. Girlfriends Thai passport

4. Foriegn Bank statement showing assets and income > 100,000 per month and subsequent transfers monthly into thai bank account for the last year(bank book).

5. My passport, sons passport

6. car insurance for two cars. finance agreement for one car, cash receipt for second car. both in my name

7. Home country income tax receipt showing that my address is in thailand

8. 1 picture of us together dressed up looking nice.(I brought photo albums but they did not use them)

My passport was sent in by Banana guesthouse. I thought their service was amazing. Very professional and to the point. I gave them my documents at 12:00 am and I got my 1 year multiple entry visa 15 hours later. The whole trip inclusive cost me around 30,000 baht with the airfare business class in a decent hotel.

**If you get turned down because the 400,000 was not in for at least 3 months, you will still get the 3 month visa. Then you can come back in three months after the money has been in and they will give you the 1 year then. I would call the banana guest house and let them advise you based on your personal situation.

Good Luck

Basically they will cancel the old visa, but my question here, which I did not try before, is what about if someone has an exit & re-entry visa, would they cancel it too if he applies to a new visa?

Bishop

Arent all visas entry and re entry. If you have a valid visa and you apply for another they have to cancel the existing one to issue the new one. In the case of a lost passport with a visa, that visa cannot be transferred to the new passport. Only the most recent stamp can be transferred. When that is up you have to go out and get a new visa in the new passport. I just went through this and it was really inconvenient. I received my replacement passport with 3 days left on the last entry stamp on a 3 month entry with a 1 yr non O. I was asked to leave and when I came back they only gave me 14 days and would not continue with my 1 year visa I had before(I had copies and a letter from my embassy asking them to transfer the visa). So I had to go to penang and get another non o multiple entry valid for one year. Technically that original visa is still valid, but the passport that it is in is no longer valid. I would advise to start getting in the habit of getting one year Multiple entry visas now because they are much easier to do everything in Thailand with. If you dont want to put money in a thai bank then forget it they will not give the one year, and you will only get 3 months at a time. It is really pretty simple.

Any genuine short stay tourist will get 30 days visa exempt stamp when arriving by air.

Genuine tourists who want to stay longer must get a visa from the embassy before arrival.

The only people who will be inconvenienced are tourists who choose to enter across the land borders,

and this is a shame.

The Visa Exempt stamp is a privilege, and has been grossly abused over the years.

Thai people who want to visit the US or Europe all need a visa in advance.

Let's hope they do not apply that rule to all US and European tourists.

I agree with you that the exempt stamp has been abused, by myself(from 2000-2004) and many others. It is time to get rid of it. People should respect the ordered way of doing things here and get it done right. If you were invited into a home as a guest you would not argue if asked not to come into the house from outside after a certain time etc.

......making the time you can stay in thailand without a visa very short.......

The 30 days visa exempt system was meant for "real" tourists!

But it has obviously been abused by people who plan to stay in Thailand longterm.

Now Immigration is cracking down on them and rightly so.

Anybody wanting to stay in Thailand longer than 30 days can always start with a Tourist visa and take it from there!

opalhort

At some point they will have to make some differentiation between a tourist and someone who wants to live here. Currently there are a lot of people who come here to hang out. Some end up staying years getting visas when they can and going in and out when they can. They seem to be implementing measures to soften the ultimate realization that these people are not welcome here. But then they come in with some measure that makes it ok if you go to Laos and get a visa, I have not heard that it is any more difficult to get a visa than before. I am starting to think that it is mainly due to the fact it is harder to keep tabs on people who are back to back with no visa, than with a registered visa from a consulate. There may be security issues they are dealing with. That would explain the cameras at lesser checkpoints(Mae Sai). thanks

Whether you want to realize it or not, these last changes to the immigration laws are actually quite draconian. Nobody in their right mind would go to the border every two weeks. I think we can deduce that the thai immigration wants back to backers, GONE. I have been told by an unofficial, opinionated source that soon there will be a limit on how many times you can back to back on the 15 day rule. This restriction would be instated after a few months, making the time you can stay in thailand without a visa very short. My concern is what the end game is for Thai immigration. Are they slowly expunging all expats without families and/or considerable wealth, and tailoring their policy to at some point only allow a select few to remain(Thailand Elite cardholders). I would love to know what is going on . Any thoughts?

1. It is easy to get a Non-immigrant o visa which allows an alien to stay up to on year with multiple entries provided they leave at least every three months.

Not easy at all for retirees UNDER AGE 50 from countries without super liberal consulates.

Also for a country which does thrive on tourism, what is the big problem with people who wish to indeed be tourists here for years on end, as long as they are not violating local laws?

Don't compare Thailand to the west. It doesn't.

Definitively, a tourist doesn't go somewhere and stay for years. They book a tour, and stay a few weeks. Maybe staying for years would make that tourist an expat?!

I found that blossoming into an expat happened when I got my first NI "O". I found it difficult too being under 50, but the thai bank statements proving income deposited from an account outside of Thailand and proof of support of a love interest and their family sealed the deal. Might I suggest you try the same.

Thailand is extremely expat friendly and here is how I see it briefly based on living here on every kind of visa for the last 10 years:

1. It is easy to get a Non-immigrant o visa which allows an alien to stay up to on year with multiple entries provided they leave at least every three months.

2. For a few thousand dollars an expat can even get a one year business visa with a work permit and you can open your mikes burgers and tuskers, dubliners etc.(which by the way are mints, and pillars of the expat community in Thailand)

2. During the nonimmigrant o stay, no taxes are paid even though most people do stay multiple years using public services on those visas.

3. An alien can open a bank account and use an atm, and a debit card and directly TT money in large amounts never raising an eyebrow.

4. quality housing accommodating pretty much all ranges of wealth from the lower income pensioner to the wealthy living on massive monthly incomes of 1,000,000 baht or more.

5 An expat is free to date women or men freely without scrutiny or legal problems as long as everyone is over 20. We all know about the laws that are actually on the books in neighboring countries.(they may or may not be enforced)

Lets face it, Thailand is like a giant nursing home for expats. A garden of earthly delights. These new laws really protect expatriotism in Thailand in that it makes staying here more difficult for people who are not expats, but just hanging around from entry to entry, screwing off, not really adding anything substantial to the expat community nor Thailand. It may make Thailand safer getting rid of some of the transient element which may have been fueling some of the drug related crime in some of the resort areas. Finally, I say...If a person cant manage at least a non immigrant o, than they have no business claiming that they are an expat in Thailand.

Are you still only allowed three of these visas in a six month period?

I went to immigration on the holiday and there was an officer there. He told me that you can go in and out every 15 days as many times as you like. I asked him about the 3 month deal and he said it was gone. If they were doing this to limit the number of back to back visas i am not sure this new plan makes sense. It sounds like the three month deal was not working so they needed a way to make more money if people were going to stay all year anyway.

Thanks for the replies. I closed my land deal yesterday. My lawyer wrote up a seperate contract which the seller and all of his lenders signed. This document stated that he, nor anyone else, had no other debt except what was listed on the chanote paper. And if it turned out for some reason that he did, the land could not be used as collateral any more since the chanote was no longer his name(the land was sold). If someone does come along and try to claim the seller owed them money and signed off the land as collateral, well then we will have a signed document diverting all of the accountability to the seller. I have learned in Thailand that having a signed document protects you a lot. Simply because ultimately it will be the police who deal with a bad situation, and they understand alot better with something they can read. The land is indemnified, as well as we the buyers. I am not worried anymore, however the title insurance company info will be helpful in the future.

Thanks

There is something you can do. She can buy the land. Then you can be listed on the chanote as Kohn Suan. This is an ancient law that provides for people to be able to live on and work the land with some security that they wont be thrown off the land. And foreigners can be listed on the chanote. Then you have a seperate contract with her stating the time which you will inhabit the land as kohn suan. Along with the building permit, reciepts, and ANYTHING else you CAN have in your name, this should provide enough security to get a house built and live in it for your lifetime. Technicalities about this option should be verified with a serious lawyer with proper credentials.

good luck

This is a very good example why I don't post a lot on forums.

Do you think a forum is a good place to get legal advice... Answer is No.

We sponsor Thaivisa because people get to know our company. It's called marketing and that is NOT illegal.

That doesn't mean we are liars, bias, or anything else?

Was the initial writer been confused by me or by all the other posters?

And who does he believe?

Who do you believe?

There are people here using nicknames only to "hit" on competitors. (like other law firms)

And I am getting tired of it so I don't post often. I did an article on usufruct that was well received.

I believe it's because there was nothing on usufruct (more or less) before...

I tried to write one on wills, and got #*#?. I am now working to write one on divorce, trying to get the best decisions from the Thai supreme court, arguments, the law, etc in English but I am afraid to post it here....

People will not say THANKS, that's helpful. They will try to find the problems, ask more questions, etc.

Some people hate "lawyers" and I understant that. I don't like lawyers too and would love to see a world without them.

But it is my job. I studied law to help people and for justice. I was naive. I must still be naive. 39 years-old, married to a Thai wife, living in Isaan and trying to help our company who has 5 employees. If I wanted a bigger salary, I wouldn't stay here... No, we are not a big law firm. 5 employees full time + me. But we are doing OK. And in Isaan, it's not easy.

Justice doesn't exist and everyone knows the law more than you.

This law is never the same, according to the location (jurisdiction on territory), the time (jurisdiction on time, prescription, retroactivity, law modifications in time), people (jurisdicton on the age, incompentency of people,) etc.

And no, I did NOT study Thai law. Just 4 years of civil Law (and common law), the same (civil law) that Thailand copied from French Law (I am from Montreal, Canada and we have a civil code copied on French law for private law...while public law comes from Common law). Do I know usufructs? Yes, for 15 years. Did I study immovable and movable property? Yes. I also know about emphyteutic (not sure of the spelling in English - Emphytheose in French) leases and other stuff that I didn't see in Thailand. That is not the point. Everyone can open a law firm in Thailand. But not everyone is qualified. Some will say that I am not qualified because I am not a Thai lawyer. All foreigners are not Thai lawyers. And all Thai lawyers are not necesserely qualified...

I am teaching some thai lawyers about THEIR law. Education is not the same in western coutries.

At the same time, I have problems to get English information about Thai law cases, Thai laws, etc.

I live in Korat. Not Pattaya, Bangkok or Phuket.

Thaivisa is a large pool of knowledge and it could help so many people.

At the same time, you can find so much unaccurate information on internet. Be careful.

Posters might act in good faith....but the law is the law. and when people don't know it, you got all kinds of answers.

The initial question was "What is the legal document that proves a foreigner/Thai owns a house/building?"

My answer was TA BIEN BAN. I stick with it. But this is not an easy question to answer.

I work with 4 different Thai lawyers, (2 fulltime, 2 part time) and it's unbelievable, they all agree with my answer about this thread! But I might be wrong... who knows...

The question was NOT how TO GET THE OWNERSHIP. It was about DOCUMENTS.

If it was HOW TO GET IT, even then, you would have not even 50% of the answer with all these posts.

Have you read book 4 of the Commercial and Thai civil Code? It's on our website. In English. Have a look.

Go in the info section, under property. I can't post a link here.

Try to understand section 1308 and following... It could be VERY complicated.

If you want to know about usufruct or superficies, it's there too.

In Quebec, it's article 1110 of our Civil Code. It Thailand, it's under 1410 and following...

Thailand did not invented usufruct, superficies, leases, etc.

Without going into details, superficies agreements die in Thailand with the life of the owner (section 1412), that's why I prefer usufruct in most cases.

Right of habitation is just for the house, a usufruct can be for the house and land. That's also better to my opinion.

Some of the answers says that only the Chanotte can prove who is the owner... This is actually the reality if the land is attached to the house. But there are also other title deeds like Nor Sor Sam that can say WHO owns the land.

So, that answer is not fully correct. After that, you must distinguish movable and immovable property.

It's a little crazy in Thailand that you can separate the house and the land... But this is Thailand and their law.

My theory is that some lawyers and real estate agents tried to make it look better for foreigners to buy...and make it really complicated. I also believe that it's crazy to separate the land and the house. But you can do it here...

If you have a small house and land and want some legal protection, avoid making all these problems, companies, ta bien ban, and the usufruct will cover all, until you die. It doesn't cover your heirs.

I am not saying that it's perfect... Sometimes, a lease will be better.

Some theories like "undue enrichment" (section 406 and following) and the part about ownership in book 4 (section 1308 and following) could be used by the owner of the "house" in case of problems. That's true. What is the value of the property you want to buy or build? someone asked the person who posted the question? And they give you legal advice?

Read carefully these comments:

1) Keep the bills of the house, they will show that you are the owner! (that's completely against what Quicklsilva said on title deeds - and I like Quicksilva. From his posts, I believe he works in real estate and is a genuine guy wanting to help people). Now, tell that (keep the bills) to some of my clients who paid the full house and are in court for divorce or getting back some money. They have all the bills!!!!!!!! If it was so easy, all foreigners would get back their money because most Thai ladies they married don't pay a penny for the house. In reality, many foreigners lose money. But keeping records of what you paid will help.....IN CASE OF PROBLEMS. That doesn't prove ownership (because the house can be attached to the land, immovable property and foreigners can't own the land - in general) Have you ever read the confirmation letter asked at the land department? It's also on our website...info - real estate and property. Not only married couple sign it.... sometimes, they asked it for unmarried couple to register a usufruct! Welcome to Thailand, the law is the law and all land departments are diffrerent!

2) Put the building permit on your name: that will show that you are the owner. (now imagine that I build a house with a building permit on my name, I sell it (with the land that would be on my wife's name) to Mr. X... Mr X sells to Mr. Y...Do you think because the building permit is on my name that I own the structure on the land after selling it? It's a BUILDING PERMIT...not an ownership document.

And now I will be straight forward with BL4U. If you can't understand that a usufruct is stronger in law in than a lease, you should keep studying. And go abroad because Thai lawyers don't really study Usufructs in Thailand (from what 8 Thai lawyers told me - you want their names, write to me and I will tell you). I already wrote many reasons why a usufruct is stronger. A usufruct is not the perfect solution and there are none in Thailand. A good lawyer should ask questions to the clients, show options, problems, etc. Tomorrow, I will know about the new regulations about Thai companies starting July first. That will be great.

Did someone asked if the guy (jflundy) had a prenuptial agreement?

Did someone explain that EVEN if he is the FULL owner of a house built after being married he will only get 50% of the ownership because it will be under SIN SOMROS (common property when people are married in Thailand). He is using the word GF so I presume that he is not married...

Did someone asked him where he wanted to purchase the land/house and the value? What about his age, his heirs, what does he want to do with the land? In Kalasin, it's difficult to register a usufruct...

There is a new thread about a gay couple in Chiangmai. They got a usufruct one year ago I heard so many comments about you need to be married, bla bla bla, it can be voided... but never a decision. Never a clear text. I did one usufruct for a gay couple and had some problems. Glad to see that these guys were able to do it...

I have to thank GDHM (Dave) who posted how he did his work. It's clear and these are FACTS. Did he say that the ta bian ban of his wife mentionned who is the owner of the house? It's nice to see a happy clients helping you... Thanks Dave.

I work 70 hours per week and don't have time to answer all threads, posts, messages on forums. I would love to help more. I had a partner in KK who started 2 months ago and already left. Isaan was too difficult for him! He used to work in Bangkok for a law firm (Pensit) and many years in Scotland for another one.

These messages and answers make me think: Should I continue to answer messages here or somewhere else? I also want to have a family life and enjoy Thailand.

I won't answer the next messages on this thread. My answer was clear. And I have to write a LONG MESSAGE to explain it. You want more information, details, explanation, advice, just write me an email. I will be glad to help as many people as I can. If I can't help, I will normally tell you. Thailand is big. You can also use any other law firm in your area. Also ask your embassy...or check the OFFICIAL websites on Thailand

land department : w w w . do l. go . th

DBD w w w . d b d . go. th

MFA w w w . m f a . go . th

I hope these links will not be deleted...put all letters together. Internet is a wonderful tool. Use it carefully.

It seems commonplace for people here to borrow money using land deeds as collateral. These loans are with banks and private individuals(loan sharks). Usually these debts are listed on the deed at the land office and are taken care of at closing. What happens with debt or loans which are not listed on the deed or with the land office but valid in the sense that the owner of the land promised to repay when the land was sold. Do these claims have any legal validity and, as a buyer, is there any protection against any claims that might arise after the sale where the land was used by the seller as collateral but not registered on the deed. In the US we have title insurance. Is there anything like that here. Should you have a seperate contract at closing where the seller will sign off that he has no undisclosed debt related to the land. Is this enough. Any input will be greatly appreciated.

thanks

I recently inquired about this but decided against it. Here is how it works. The money comes into Thailand but is not converted into Baht. The account is similar to a savings account but with no ATM or Check Card. You can hold the money with the bank in this account and convert it to Baht anytime you want at the TT window at that time. For that matter, you could just leave the money in your (usa?) account and watch the rate and transfer it into your thai savings account when you need the money. I am able to order a transfer at 9:00 pm BKK time and the money is already converted to thai baht the next am at 9:00. It hits my bankok bank account before 12:00 noon. I would suggest figuring out the how much you need then bringing it over in 1,999,999 increments(every few days) as the baht is in an upward trend. With the dollar account you cannot access the funds unless you convert them. Remember, they already have your money, so it doesnt matter to them if you never convert to baht. Why not hold your own money then folow the tt rate and move it over yourself. If the baht gains ground then they are not going to give you a better rate than at the TT window that moment. This is what I decided to do. I do have a long standing personal relationship in private wealth management at one bank in the US. This is crucial because you dont want to have any delays or paper work to hold your transfer up coming out of the US if you are racing to get a position in Baht. I suggest sitting down with both Bank managers to discuss the technicals. I did and decided that there weren't any advantages to having this type of account.

Sorry about the typo!

I recently inquired about this but decided against it. Here is how it works. The money comes into Thailand but is not converted into Baht. The account is similar to a savings account but with no ATM or Check Card. You can hold the money with the bank in this account and convert it to dollars anytime you want at the TT window at that time. For that matter, you could just leave the money in your (usa?) account and watch the rate and transfer it into your thai savings account when you need the money. I am able to order a transfer at 9:00 pm BKK time and the money is already converted to thai baht the next am at 9:00. It hits my bankok bank account before 12:00 noon. I would suggest figuring out the how much you need then bringing it over in 1,999,999 increments(every few days) as the baht is in an upward trend. With the dollar account you cannot access the funds unless you convert them. Remember, they already have your money, so it doesnt matter to them if you never convert to baht. Why not hold your own money then folow the tt rate and move it over yourself. If the baht gains ground then they are not going to give you a better rate than at the TT window that moment. This is what I decided to do. I do have a long standing personal relationship in private wealth management at one bank in the US. This is crucial because you dont want to have any delays or paper work to hold your transfer up coming out of the US if you are racing to get a position in Baht. I suggest sitting down with both Bank managers to discuss the technicals. I did and decided that there weren't any advantages to having this type of account.

Ive been on a very long holiday in Thailand since 2/2000. I opened an account at Bankok Bank within 4 months of arriving. Ive had up to 4 different accounts...Samui, Chang Rai, and 2 in Chang Mai for 8 years. I have since closed most of them and kept one in Chang Mai. Ive never had anything but a passport. The first 5 years i was on one month visas. The key here is Bankok Bank and a really good attitude i presume. They have a policy to let foreigners open savings bank accounts based on counter withdrawal and debit card and ATM use only. I have found this to be one of the most reliable and useful aspects of my entire stay in thailand! These accounts are probably interest free but i have never cared since I transfer money every month and spend it all every month. The only way interest would matter is if you wanted to bring a large sum of money over to let it sit. Now why would anyone want to do that. You cant buy land and there are countless restrictions on foriegn investment. The most you are going to get is less than a percent anyway. Actually I talked with the foriegn remittance personnel in Bankok Bank the other day. They said that I would receive the interest on my savings account if i transferred money into it from my home country, so I am not sure what you are talking about.

give em a ring and get it from the horses mouth

026857777

Are there Trusts in thailand and can they hold real estate for thai citizens? Can land be held in a trust for young children who are thai citizens?

Can a foriegner buy land for his biological children who are thai citizens and have it in their name ?

Any information would be helpful.

Thanks